00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.05.24 00:15:01 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:52:58 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 01:13:54 --- join: davidw (~davidw@adsl-ull-106-108.42-151.net24.it) joined #forth 01:14:02 Hey :) 01:14:19 Any more workers looking in through your window? :) 01:14:35 it's closed 01:15:26 Aren't your windows made of glass? 01:17:06 sure, but there are blinds 01:18:01 Are the workers blind? 01:18:12 no, there are things to close the windows 01:18:16 anyway, breakfast time 01:18:29 OK 01:18:30 Bye 02:25:16 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 02:25:30 Pryvit :D 02:25:38 hi 02:25:42 busy now... 02:25:52 * Serg_penguin is spewing lightning boltzz =8-{z} 02:28:53 --- part: Serg_penguin left #forth 04:54:05 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:54:17 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Client Quit) 05:21:05 --- join: Etaoin (~david@ljk2-10.sat.net) joined #forth 05:44:52 --- quit: onetom (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 05:45:20 --- join: onetom (tom@adsl52007.vnet.hu) joined #forth 06:28:15 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:28:53 Hey tathi :) 06:28:58 Darn, I always read your name as "Tahiti", nickname completion never works then, heh... 06:29:15 ahah 06:29:16 :D 06:30:30 heh 06:30:44 how's things? 06:31:23 Very well :) 06:34:38 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust5.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 06:34:54 Hey :) 06:35:04 ppl! 06:36:40 lol are you never not here ? hehe 06:36:55 you LIVE here lol 06:37:01 Bah... 06:37:07 err whe do u got to school?? :) 06:37:09 I actually sleep sometimes, too. 06:37:12 No school today. 06:37:40 (I suppose you meant something like "Why aren't you in school?") 06:37:44 lol 06:37:46 cool 06:37:57 :) 06:38:02 i ported my 8051 disassembler from an old dos proggie was writing to forth 06:38:08 the forth code is MUCH better 06:38:39 Nice :) 06:38:53 What's the 8051 like? 06:39:24 its a very VERY nice microcontroler 06:39:29 harvard architecture 06:39:38 That means..? 06:39:46 code goes in code space 06:39:50 data goes in data space 06:39:57 you can have data in code space 06:40:05 but you cannot execute data space 06:40:11 Oh.. 06:40:23 4k internal rom which can be encrypted 06:40:25 No SMC :) 06:40:42 128 (then 256 then 512) bytes of internal ram 06:40:56 serial ports and the like 06:40:59 timers etc 06:41:02 very nice 06:41:08 VERY simple 06:41:23 :) 06:41:42 And you have a forth program that simulates one? 06:42:20 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:42:25 hi serg 06:42:32 hi 06:42:37 no i have a forth program that disassembles the opcodes 06:42:51 taken from a dos asm program i was writing to simulate one 06:42:59 ill do the simulator in forth now 06:43:08 busy, joined jus to test link ) 06:43:17 the forth disassembler is MUCH better than the asm version 06:43:20 serg ok :) 06:43:37 Hi Serg_penguin 06:44:01 and the thing is - to write the FORTH code ijust copied the asm code to a ssecond file, renamed it to .f and went thru and reworked it to be forth hehe 06:44:10 ill post it on clf in a minute or 2 06:51:22 --- quit: Etaoin ("raise OutOfInternet") 06:51:23 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:59:02 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:59:19 8051 disassembler code posted to CLF now 06:59:38 How long is it? 07:00:25 err take a look hehe 07:00:29 its not huge 07:00:29 Bah 07:00:35 Too lazy :) 07:00:36 not sure how many lines 07:00:39 bah 07:00:40 lamer :P 07:00:42 I will later. 07:00:44 Yeah :D 07:00:47 hehe 07:01:00 it could be shorter, alot of the code is similar 07:01:10 Bah 07:01:16 Factore batter, _lamer_! ;) 07:01:19 factor* 07:01:27 but if i optimiezed all the "exactly the same thing in exactly the same way" words out it would be less readable 07:01:54 i posted a "you can do this to make the code alot smaller" in the source file 07:02:04 Hehe 07:10:05 bleh 07:10:08 am i still here? 07:10:18 just ripped the network cable out of my laptops nic 07:10:19 bleh 07:10:56 well i think im still here heh 07:14:38 pong :) 07:14:48 :) 07:15:12 I think so too. 07:15:20 heh 07:15:45 wouldnt bother me if i had disconnected, i would just reconnect - but ripping that fragile corde bothers me 07:17:34 bleh :) 07:50:47 --- quit: Serg_penguin ("BELL WHISTLE dive, dive !") 08:04:17 --- quit: tmcm ("using sirc version 2.211+ssfe") 08:17:32 --- nick: oink -> z 08:17:39 --- nick: z -> oink 08:25:21 --- join: Etaoin (~david@ljk2-10.sat.net) joined #forth 08:25:50 Hello. 08:43:09 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 08:43:27 --- part: Serg_penguin left #forth 08:43:27 Privet. 09:42:08 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 09:42:27 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust5.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 09:43:20 You flooder! 09:43:33 flooder ? 09:44:41 <-- I440r has quit (Excess Flood) 09:44:46 :) 09:45:28 no thats not why i quit 09:45:43 Yes? 09:45:44 the connector to my laptops nic wasint inserted all the way 09:45:47 its lose now 09:45:54 because i ripped it out earlier :( 09:46:04 Hehe 09:46:08 Not good :/ 09:52:45 --- join: Serg_pingvin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 09:52:54 Hey Serg_pingvin. 09:53:09 hi ;) 09:55:59 what do u work on now ? 09:56:23 at weekend i'll dig out my sokoban and rework it 09:56:43 factorize better, pack levels denser, maybe add an editor 09:56:50 :) 09:56:59 i just did an 8051 disassembler 09:57:05 need to get forget working... 09:57:11 lost of other thigns to do 09:57:25 but im desperatly seeking GAINFUL employment right now 09:57:42 8051 ???? what it is 09:57:54 intel microcontroller 09:57:55 i'm too loking for job 09:57:58 ok 09:58:12 our company is abt capsize and sink 09:58:24 w/ lotz of bubblez ;) 09:59:52 heh 10:00:18 we sell sekond-hand pc's, mostly, new too... 10:00:28 s\h from USA... 10:00:33 cool 10:00:44 about 1000 p100 ;) 10:00:51 and usa used to have a law forbidding pc's from shipping into russia hehe 10:01:37 the last one is behind me - default gateway ;) , linux\ipchains\squid 10:02:18 I440r: And now you have laws against letting Saddam download software =) 10:02:46 bleh shud just nuke the bastard 10:02:50 and the saudi's too :P 10:02:56 nuke em till they glow 10:03:00 shoot em in the dark 10:03:01 hehe 10:03:08 sbb ax,bx -> ax = ax - bx - cf; ? 10:03:21 dammit, pc-s are closing to strike MIPS barriers for 70-s Crays ;) 10:03:30 Serg_pingvin: Hehe =) 10:03:49 why nuke ? i don't hate anyone.... 10:04:00 Serg_pingvin: Saddam isn't exactly nice. 10:04:14 But on the other hand, to nuke Bagdad... heh... 10:04:21 Not even I440r would do that :P 10:04:28 nuke will wipe too much ppl who are not guilty ( or maybe guilty only for inactivity ) 10:05:08 non-nuke missile from unknown submarine rite in his palace is much better... 10:05:59 only the tyran, his guards and government... 10:06:00 Yeah :) 10:06:07 serg i was just being "extreme" 10:06:21 sbb ax,bx -> ax = ax - (bx + cf) ? 10:06:26 i think one tactically positioned seal team would work 10:06:38 rob yes 10:06:44 Aren't seals peaceful animals? 10:06:48 but it can be identified... 10:06:52 navy seal 10:06:53 duh 10:07:06 O_o 10:07:51 IMHO in case of a sub strike, all world will debate who did it - USA or Russia 10:08:25 but it seems to never happen - "war is peace", orwell,1984... 10:08:37 wadda u think ? 10:09:16 Hum? 10:09:21 Haven't read that book. 10:10:59 damn, pieces of missile can be identified too ;) 10:11:06 if it's not nuke ;) 10:11:44 Hehe 10:12:00 Now we're back at where we started - NUKE THEM! 10:18:09 good thinking!!! 10:18:09 why didnt I think of tht :) 10:18:16 --- quit: Etaoin (Connection timed out) 10:20:32 --- join: thefox (fox@adsl-209-182-168-45.value.net) joined #forth 10:20:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thefox 10:20:54 Hi thefox. 10:21:06 hello 10:21:09 of what ? identification ? 10:21:10 thefox hi 10:21:33 thefox see my 8051 disassembler i posted on clf ? 10:21:49 clf ? what it is ? 10:21:59 comp.lang.forth 10:22:09 ok 10:22:09 1440r: no what was the thread title? 10:22:17 8051 disassembler hehe 10:23:15 I usually go to c.l.f read a little, rool my eyes and wonder if there is any hope there. 10:23:23 lol yea 10:23:36 they DO like to obfuscate things there alot 10:23:36 Haha 10:23:55 like my response to the "restoring defered word" thread ? 10:24:11 I'll quote you on that when someone asks you why I don't read CLF... 10:24:11 making all defered words a stack so you can POP back to a previous deferal heh 10:24:12 lol 10:24:38 I only post about 10% of my replys to c.l.f because usually it is too hopeless to make an effort. 10:24:52 ya. they are too wrapped up in ans 10:25:08 i dont think im making any enemies on there but i dont think im making any friends 10:25:15 im too blunt :) 10:25:25 if its a spade, i call it a spade 10:25:52 Not quite... if you _think_ something sucks, you say so ;) 10:26:02 exactly 10:26:37 if i see bad code being ooooh'd and ahhhhh'd over i generally point my finger and snicker at all involved :P 10:26:47 I have never liked c.l.f much. I did a survey there in 1995 catagorizing people's opinions on all the topics that repeatedly come up and which will never be resolved. 10:27:06 i bet postpone was #1 !!! 10:27:31 i refer you to the isforth sources for my opinion on postpone 10:27:44 --- join: GilbertBSD (~gilbert@max2-68.dacor.net) joined #forth 10:27:47 You like it? =) 10:27:50 Hi GilbertBSD. 10:27:55 lol 10:27:57 Brumm 10:28:06 I was somewhat suprised to find that my opinions were the most extreme in a number of catagories. My opion is that most of the people here are completely out of sync with what Chuck thinks of as Forth. 10:28:44 But on the other hand, isn't that the point of forth? :) 10:29:02 like his comment in the /. interview - my sentements exactly!!! "the ans forth standard does not describe the forth language but a language with the same name" 10:29:36 i dont think im 100% in sync with Chuck - but i would listen to ANYTHING he said before i listned to CLF :) 10:31:14 * I440r must have sent his resume to about 50 different agencies. i got 2 replies so far and one of those was an "im out of the office till...." auto replies 10:31:30 c.l.f is mostly about using sound bytes to damage Forth. People declare sumarily that other people's code is simply unreadable, that other people's full featured Forths are just fat and bloated and that other people's small Forths are just trivial and useless. The source of Forth's reputation is easy to find. I remember when the majority felt that cobol was the endall. Not much has changed. 10:31:41 I440r: I keep thinking you already have a job gun smithing. 10:31:46 I must be wrong. 10:32:16 gilbert thats a company my father and i are starting up 10:32:29 thers NO money coming into this house now since august 10:32:33 were about to lose it 10:32:39 all 6 acres :( 10:32:43 but you are a programmer! 10:32:46 here at Russian, newsgroups are not of big value or authority... 10:32:54 you can code your way out of a wet paper bag! 10:33:08 only if someone hires me 10:33:30 I have a mixed opinion on chat so far. My experiences have been mostly pleasant, but frustrating. We only had a few people hurling insults last week. 10:33:43 most infamous are FIDO ones... 10:33:53 flame, lamers, holy wars... 10:34:07 irc should be taken with a pinch of salt basically 10:34:41 everyone has different opinions but it should never resort to abuse 10:34:51 what's for deferred words, i did it in stupid way: 10:35:41 my father was a FIDO sysop from day 1 10:35:48 once it started getting abusive he left 10:35:55 went to RBBS-PC instead 10:36:01 : vect> ( a a -- ) 3 + ! ; 10:36:14 3 + being >body ? 10:36:29 : >vect ( -- ) ' ' vect> ; 10:36:34 maybe ;) 10:36:52 start of compiled code 10:36:56 go from CFA to body - i.e. skip the call dodefer 10:37:05 ok 10:37:15 why ' ' ? 10:37:16 oh 10:37:27 i came to 3 by trial and crash ;), and DECOMP 10:37:29 >vect foo bar ? 10:37:41 yes 10:38:03 on a 16 bit system a call is usually 1 byte call instruction, 2 bytes address 10:38:15 on isforth its 5 bytes 10:38:38 on gp-forth its 2 bytes - only address 10:38:48 forth usually defines >body as : >body 3 + ; 10:38:49 of the word to execute 10:38:59 so you can do 5 ' blah >body ! 10:39:37 --- part: GilbertBSD left #forth 10:40:00 it has 'adress interpreter', call instructions eliminated for compactness 10:40:30 ive got no idea how that would work hehe 10:40:53 download -it's full-source, docs in rus 10:41:41 ill have my uncle translate it hehe 10:41:50 and u'll got idea ;) 10:42:02 260 k of doc + comments ? 10:42:43 he speaks fluent russian - worked as a translator in the USAF 10:42:51 now works for the DEA as a field agent 10:43:42 my sokoban weights 5554 bytes - under UPX, 50 orig levels, 9x15x256 sprites 10:43:47 DEA ? 10:43:55 drug enforcement agency 10:44:25 with Forth linked in (and console) - less than 17 , upx too 10:44:53 u can beat this only with asm ;) 10:45:03 probably not even with that 10:45:35 i tell alot of c coders taht any non trivial application written in forth will be half the size of the equiv asm - and they laugh at me :) 10:46:13 take into account i was total newbie in forth, was writing w/ books of Brodie in other window ;) 10:46:17 and learning 10:46:22 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@stampede.org) joined #forth 10:46:34 it needs great rework, better factorization, etc 10:46:57 hmmm i wonder if i should email resume@microsoft.com ;) 10:47:06 first is 13 k w/o upx 10:47:09 I440r you can imagine what they say when Chuck says that if it isn't 100 times smaller than C that it isn't Forth. 10:47:35 thefox: I guess I'm doomed then. :) 10:47:56 w/ only one level - less than 4, or maybe 3 10:48:00 they will probably say it does 100* less - thing is they will probably be correct, well written forth has VERY LITTLE built in fluff 10:48:40 right now isforth turnkey'd apps are huge - i need that assemler so i can meta compile in all the features to solve that :( 10:49:59 Chuck will do 100% of the problem specified, he just won't add 10,000% more specifications to complicate the problem like other people will do. 10:50:54 Yes, even in c.l.f people often equate lines of code to inherent problem complexity. ;-) 10:51:29 It is basically a contest there to see who can write the most and most complex code for any given problem. 10:51:39 if i'll rework it, i wanna go below 4k - just like a micro asm demo... 10:51:43 tehfox lol - how many lines of code it takes is irrelavant - its doing it with the smallest ammount of code 10:51:49 economy of motion. 10:51:50 In order to support code re-use (well designed code can be re-used very easily, even in Forth). 10:51:53 economy of effort 10:52:03 In order to support code re-use (well designed code can be re-used very easily, even in Forth), you need specifications of its inputs and its outputs. 10:52:22 no extra bs tagging allong because the language wants it there... 10:52:32 now i have 3 cells in 16bit word, but will squeeze 5 ;) 10:53:12 3 bits each ? 10:53:27 The Steamer16 CPU has 5 3-bit opcodes per instruction word. 10:53:28 sprites are repetitive - will exploit it by storing one piece and some cod ;) 10:53:40 yes, 3 bits 10:53:53 Serg_pingvin: What are you working on? 10:53:58 8 variants, need only 6 ;) not good 10:54:38 thinking of possible rework of a game i wrote while learning Forth 10:54:52 Ahh 10:55:12 my sokoban weights 5554 bytes - under UPX, 50 orig levels, 9x15x256 sprites 10:55:21 im doing an n^2-1 puzzle solver - it gets to within 1 move of solved and segv's :P 10:55:22 lol 10:55:26 its a consipracy! 10:56:02 this is just on the 3x3 level - 4x4/5x5 and 6x6 ive not tried yet 10:56:05 Heh 10:56:38 computer also isnt solving the most optimal way either - it completely misses a better path 10:56:51 so my evaluation function and pruning need work :P 10:56:54 what puzz ? 15-like ? 10:57:18 a square with lettered tiles in a 3x3 gird with one tile missing 10:57:30 you can slide tiles into the empty blank and randomize it 10:57:38 the problem is to get it back to solved position 10:57:44 ok 10:58:17 that project is on hold tho - got forget to fix for isforth 10:58:24 * kc5tja wants to re-implement his DFT algorithm in Forth some day, so I can do signal frequency analyses on various modulations. 10:58:35 it has problems with forgetting vocabularies that are in context right now heh 10:58:48 DTF ? 10:58:52 DFT 10:58:55 oh 10:58:57 ya nevermind heh 10:59:03 Discrete Fourier Transform 10:59:25 i think marcel hendric's monster benchmark code might have one in there... 10:59:36 It uses floating point. 10:59:42 so what abt 3d and AI in forth ? 10:59:42 ya 11:00:00 i'm thinking about air-combat game in Forth.. 11:00:02 * kc5tja would prefer a DFT that didn't use FP; I don't like dealing with the FP-stack. 11:00:24 xtremely simple 11:00:33 floating point to me is on a par with OOP and recursion. anything you can do WITH, you can do better without 11:01:16 just a crosshair and few gauges, and throttle-full-all-guns-loose ;) 11:02:03 no radar or missiles ;) no big groups ;) no smart wingmen ;) 11:02:29 even no dogfights ;) 11:03:58 imagine: at WWII times germans stole Einstein, broke hole in time and started to eliminaty Egyptian satanists who launched Moses and "god-chosen-nation" idea,... 11:04:14 wich led to great grief all over history... 11:04:24 great ? 11:04:38 you would need a suitible hero to save the day :) 11:05:40 imagine diving in Ju87 Stuka at a circle of blak mages, hurling lightningz at u... 11:06:06 ah ? 11:07:41 secret Luftwaffe weapons, twin-engined "trolleybuses" - night-fiters w/ first radars 11:08:17 converted V-1 missiles, homing to magic manifestations ;) 11:08:30 Hehe 11:08:54 * rob_ert wants a V2 for christmas. 11:09:23 Don't knock pulsejets... 11:09:36 They're easy to make, and relatively powerful. 11:10:11 and the noise from pulsejets is almost as destructive as any warhead! 11:10:32 one hobbyst in Russia did - praise God it BADOOM'ed after takeoff, not in his hands... 11:10:47 thefox: Yup. :) 11:10:54 --- join: XeF4 (liforg@12-245-116-85.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 11:11:03 Russian space program experienced a lot of KABOOMs, Serg_pingvin. 11:11:22 Like that accident when a rocket just didn't launch. 11:11:29 Serg_pingvin: The pulsejet hobby is alive and well. Just do a websearch for them. They're popular for use on model aircraft. 11:11:48 there are a number of very neat toy turbojet engines these days. I also read a cool article recently about making turbojets and gas turbine generators with MEMS1 11:11:49 The technicians went to inspect after just a few minutes. 11:11:56 Then it explodes..heh.. 11:12:04 primer engines were rocket-powder, short wings like Mig-21 Fishbed.... 11:12:38 it survived first test flight w/o turning pulsejet on, only powder... 11:12:40 I want some penny sized gas turbine electric generators! 11:13:19 i just want a job :P 11:13:28 yes, I want to burn myself for a few microwatts when I could just use a battery and/or fuel cell 11:13:57 XeF4: Sorry, but you're wrong. Those things produce 20W of power per turbine. 11:14:00 yes, fuel cells for laptops will be a nice development 11:14:11 XeF4: Fuel contains 50 to 100x the power density of a battery. 11:14:15 kc5: penny-sized? 11:14:20 XeF4: Yes. 11:14:21 where can I read about these? 11:14:59 XeF4: Slashdot had an article about a 4mm gas turbine; however, you should be able to find references to it via google. Berkeley has a 4mm (or so) Wankel rotary engine that produces similar power outputs. 11:15:44 However, ... 11:15:55 they haven't quite solved the problem of generating power at such small scales yet. 11:16:09 But it's cool to see that they're getting incredibly huge power densities out of these engines. 11:16:20 http://www.economist.com/science/tq/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1020811 11:17:29 * kc5tja built a 100mm diameter Tesla turbine from paper, and on breath power alone, managed to get almost 500mW out of it. A true source of continuous, compressed air will enable me to get upwards of a horsepower out of it. 11:17:51 (Well, not with paper, but if I were to remake the engine in its exact configuration, using metal instead) 11:18:14 * kc5tja can probably get around 10W of power out of the paper turbine. 11:18:23 But that's pushing it. 11:23:29 is taygeta.com down? 11:24:00 Yes 11:24:03 Apparently so 11:24:26 taygeta.org is still up but i cant find the links i ws looking for on there 11:28:07 It's horrendously slow, but it appears to be the same set of webpages. 11:28:21 Also lots of broken images. 11:29:48 he might be working on his servers 11:30:01 * kc5tja nods 11:30:02 i also note that www.forth.org doesnt seem to link to him any more 11:30:38 His site needs an overhaul in my opinion -- too much information on any given page. The site's motif isn't self-consistent either. 11:31:10 It makes it harder than it should to find information. 11:31:57 well you Do know he comes on this network rite ??? 11:31:58 heh 11:32:08 skipC even comes in here evey now and again :)\ 11:32:53 so, is where some design examples on 3d ? 11:33:14 (ai is almost zeroed out in my storyline) 11:33:41 and what abot flight model ? i got no idea on it... 11:34:03 it should NOT be too real, but not too arcade... 11:34:36 is where a simple math model of flight ? 11:34:37 ? 11:35:01 we got a report at the svfig meeting a couple of months ago. John Hall had taken over again as an appointed President (by the board members who had not already resigned, and before they resigned) and had resigned and turned over the FIG site and was considering turning over the FIG Corporation to SVFIG. 11:35:10 I know. 11:35:42 I'm not saying his site doesn't contain useful content. I'm just saying it is laid out inefficiently compared to other sites I've seen. 11:36:05 Yes, I used to be a web site designer too. Just one more thing on my resume... 11:36:06 I have done many 3D flight simulators in Forth as well as spacecraft and orbital simulations. 11:36:29 thefox one of the things i want to do with isforth is a complete gfx engine! 11:36:34 eventually 11:36:34 great ! 11:36:46 the maths is beyond me but the CODE isnt 11:37:03 CODE: ? ;) 11:37:23 lol 11:37:50 :thefox can i read some your texts on 3D and airsim designs ? 11:37:58 I got a book on modern subsonic aerodynamic simulation a few years ago. I plan to implement a wind tunnel simulation in colorForth one of these days, or maybe let Chuck do it. 11:38:29 no, no aerodynamic.... 11:38:46 with this, casual player will never ever take off.... 11:39:08 just lets general ACM believable... 11:39:18 ACM = air combat maneuvers 11:39:28 The aerodynamic simulations are not for games, they are for making an alternate body for my car, and better flying robots, and for near-spacecraft-robots. 11:41:10 My flight simulators were in stand-alone Forths nearly twenty years ago. Although there were no files I did have some AI telecommunications software that could update an image of the blocks on a mainframe for multiple player access. It was the early eighties. 11:41:37 Getting the old computers up and running and writing new software to transfer the blocks to a format 11:41:47 where other people could read them is not on my to-do list. 11:41:51 combat simulator should be realistic in tactics and "atmosphere", definitely not in aerodynamics 11:42:21 I have already published too much antique software. I am much more interested in what I am doing now than what I was doing twenty years ago. 11:43:09 what was the purpose of u'r sims ? 11:44:01 I really liked the SU-27 simulation game. The folks who wrote it wrote the full scale simulators for the SU-27 for Sukoi. It was fun to pull the Cobra manuver on American planes. 11:44:46 i heavily disbelieve ;) 11:45:08 whats the cobra manuver ? 11:45:29