00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.05.10 00:02:02 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois") 00:28:35 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 00:28:35 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 00:28:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 01:11:32 --- quit: joa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:14:26 --- join: joa (~james@16-129-237-24.anc-dial.gci.net) joined #forth 01:20:15 Hi people 01:35:47 --- quit: Soap` () 01:42:15 --- join: Soap` (flop@210-54-74-75.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 02:10:47 --- quit: vomjom (Remote closed the connection) 02:10:49 --- join: vomjom (~vomjom@cc1-24.217.97.201.charter-stl.com) joined #forth 02:11:05 Hi 02:18:51 --- quit: vomjom (Remote closed the connection) 02:18:52 --- join: vomjom (~vomjom@cc1-24.217.97.201.charter-stl.com) joined #forth 03:28:30 --- part: vomjom left #forth 03:35:56 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 03:39:37 H 03:39:37 i 03:42:29 I have the feeling AOL sells the addresses not just of people who subscribe to them, but also of people who write to people subscribed there 03:43:35 heh 03:44:23 I suppose I could test this conjecture: make up an address @tunes.org, then use it once 03:46:46 And then post your story to slashdot :) 04:17:04 --- quit: ChanServ (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:17:19 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 04:17:19 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 04:17:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 05:35:01 --- quit: Fare ("Connection reset by pear") 05:52:44 --- join: Juu (ammu@baana-62-165-189-112.phnet.fi) joined #forth 05:52:44 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 05:53:11 yay 05:53:18 moikka! 05:53:19 :) 05:53:34 nice, now everything is going well 05:53:36 almost 05:54:38 almost? 05:55:40 well 05:55:47 parents went to cottage 05:55:54 i have chips here, some candy 05:55:57 hamburgers 05:55:59 ah :) 05:56:02 i have drawen something 05:56:12 i should practise drawing, it's the only way to learn new 05:56:17 * Juu applied to art schools 05:56:27 industrial art.. 05:56:40 cool cool 05:56:52 not painting on canvas etc. but doing e.g. logos and stuph 05:56:58 then finland-sweden icehockey game 05:57:04 today and 05:57:16 but why almost is that i'll get results sooon.. 05:57:28 resulst that will i have a change to show my skills 05:57:38 applying to arts schools in finland is extremely hard 05:57:47 getting in is, like, impossible almost :) 05:58:10 well, good luck then 05:58:26 and i dind't do prework very well.. those are looked at and then decided weather you are accepted to test where they decide students 05:58:29 yeah :) 05:58:47 i need it.. 94% of those who apply wont get in 05:58:53 wow 05:59:11 one some areas, like photography, it's 97% discarded 05:59:55 though, they put it 3% accepted as students :) 06:00:06 they would, of course :) 06:00:19 generally 20% of those who apply are accepted as university students 06:00:24 in finland 06:00:50 there are always polytechnics and such, but i just dont want 06:01:01 the good thing is that university education is free in finland :) 06:02:46 well, I hope you make it in... 06:03:01 i'm good i think, but too lazy sometimes :) 06:03:06 i shoudl practise more 06:03:12 yeah, me too :) 06:03:13 stupid to say, but still practise 06:03:41 even though, i guess i shoudl call it experimenting new things :) 06:04:23 * Juu put painting hmm.. paper where i had put paints when i was painting and then teachers comments were "sensitive and blabla stuff" 06:04:38 i though it was my school career worst arts grade 06:04:44 but i got best possible :) 06:05:48 :) 06:06:53 what makes me glad is that every time i do something i notice progress 06:08:20 also what is good today is that everyone are active and irccing :) 06:08:31 usually no one is talking this time of day 06:08:35 heh! 06:08:58 I'm probably going to go do some work soon actually :) 06:08:58 hi Juu, tathi :) 06:09:14 hey oink 06:09:22 boingoik 06:09:40 tathi are you applying to some school? 06:10:20 no, I finished school last spring 06:11:18 what were you studying? 06:11:30 * Juu finished lukio this year.. 06:11:30 math 06:11:37 the beginning of year was terrible :/ 06:11:40 in university? 06:11:45 yes 06:11:55 what is your title? 06:12:02 did some dead languages (Latin and Greek) on the side too 06:12:07 B.S. 06:12:15 yea, science 06:12:21 * Juu wants to become DA 06:12:25 doctor of arts :) 06:13:17 going into it, I was thinking about getting a doctorate, but I got tired of it after a while 06:13:36 * Juu wants to be lifetime student :) 06:13:44 :) 06:14:15 i though i would start my own firm and then continue studying after- if i become DA - at another field 06:14:29 maybe some languages then, probably finno-ugric 06:14:47 cool 06:15:37 i want to learn Sámi and hungarian at least 06:15:53 my native language is finnish, finno-ugric language too, and i like it very much 06:16:01 i have found aspect in it 06:16:14 that pleases me much, not everyone notice how beautiful language it is 06:17:44 there are very beautiful finnish words, though 06:17:57 in everyday speak, it's maybe not so easy to notice 06:21:29 don't know anything about any of those languages... 06:21:40 :) 06:22:00 finnish is synthetic langauge, it means you can add suffixes and prefixes to word to change it's meaning 06:22:14 word order is loose, unlike in english 06:22:22 neat 06:22:28 finnish is pronounced like it's writen 06:22:37 * Juu is goign to make finnish tutorial 06:22:41 interested? :) 06:22:55 I haven't ever become comfortable in any language other than english, but I'm starting to get much more interested in learning other languages lately 06:23:03 yeah 06:23:16 finnish is very different than english, but still 06:23:26 you dont need to learn new words every time you 06:23:30 see new word 06:23:38 for example, kirja = book 06:23:42 and kirjasto = library 06:24:08 and then there are combounded words, which has new meaning, but usually easily guessable 06:24:23 like paloauto = fire truck (though literally it'd be fire car) 06:24:49 or palo might be translated as burn 06:25:04 tulipalo = fire burn = when something is burning 06:25:36 talossa oli tulipalo = meaning : the house was burning 06:25:50 talo = house, oli = was 06:26:03 hmm. you can't translate it to enligsh like that, though 06:26:11 heh 06:26:17 paloruotsi! 06:26:35 rob_ert that is not word! :) 06:26:47 Hehe 06:27:05 karhu sanoo murr murr = bear says murr murr 06:27:18 :) 06:27:18 karhu = karmah 06:27:35 rob_ert that's only nickname, i called him karhu but karmah doenst mean the same 06:27:42 I know : 06:27:44 ) 06:27:49 what is different in finnish compared to indo-european languages is that in finnish word "no" inflects too.. 06:28:21 because of combounded words and the synthetic language features you can build terrible words if you wish 06:28:34 longest word was some day finnish word with 120 letters :) 06:28:40 hehe 06:29:29 In swedish you can construct pretty logs words, too. 06:29:43 long* 06:30:12 --- part: mmc left #forth 06:30:13 rob_ert yes, swedish has also combounded words, but it is not as synthetic. 06:30:42 :) 06:30:56 one word may contain several words if translated to english 06:30:58 like 06:31:26 kirjoissakin = also in the books 06:32:02 there are only couple prefixes in finnish 06:32:07 Sängkammarbelysning = lighting of bed chamber 06:32:07 ah predicates 06:33:55 finnish also has some words that donest exist in enlish at all 06:35:44 --- join: ASau (ASau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 06:35:57 well, most languages do have concepts that don't translate well... 06:36:03 if at all :) 06:36:57 consepts ye, but not usualyl words 06:37:02 sauna is finnish word :) 06:37:56 finnish is called world most equal language 06:38:13 there is not even he and she. we just have hän to refer both she and he 06:38:36 Hello 06:38:44 though, in every day speech, we often say only "se", it, to refer both humans, animals and items 06:39:05 sauna == almost banya 06:39:27 hi ASau 06:39:53 * Juu knows russian, no it is not. it's finnish word. 06:40:24 "Sauna" is finnish word 06:40:30 swedish uses bastu and norwegian, badstu = bathing cottage. russian has banja (depending how do you transliterate it) 06:40:59 OK! 06:41:09 :) 06:42:46 (In Russian) we don't use "it"-like pronoun for animals 06:43:14 So, we don't discriminate them 06:43:25 ;) 06:43:26 * Juu snaesh ruskava kjisika, no nje harasho pomimaesh 06:43:32 agh 06:43:42 i alwasy use my own transliteration :) 06:44:02 ponimaesh? 06:44:08 chto takoe "kjisika" 06:44:19 language 06:44:26 kjisik 06:44:28 ostal'noje ponjatno 06:44:34 :) 06:44:46 it's been year since last time used 06:44:53 Now that is a strange language :) 06:45:13 i looked half year ago some old essays, i wrote damn good text about nature conservation even. that isnot easy subject to write in any language 06:45:16 kjisik == koshka (umen'sh.-lask.)? 06:45:36 (== cat, Engl.) 06:46:10 koshka ponjatnaesh 06:46:34 it takes a while to remember all russian :) 06:46:36 rob_ert: And what did you find strange? 06:46:49 Well... all russian (?) is strange :) 06:46:54 rob_ert dont say russian is weird, unless you KNOW actually it :) 06:47:07 Finnish is werid, too. 06:47:24 Swedish is the only good language ;) 06:47:26 when you know it hasn't really got "is" verb and has very many words for go depending the way and all those forms, then you are allowed to call it weird :) 06:47:54 I call it weird now instead. 06:48:00 yeah, and 2 verb forms 06:48:18 "classes" or how ever they shoudl be called 06:48:29 rob_ert, njet 06:48:35 Juu: language == jasyk 06:48:51 ASau just transliteration problem 06:48:58 Juu: language == jazyk, this better 06:49:19 that R wrong ways (ja) 3 and i and K 06:49:21 yea 06:49:32 some transliterate it like that 06:49:51 pseudocyrillic: R3NK :) 06:54:01 moi ruskij bïl nje harasho b skole, but still enough so for me 06:54:17 source code and russian pages i do understand and all those other polish pagest oo :) 06:57:59 finno-ugric languages have btw many forms of words 06:58:05 swedish and enlgish has only 2 06:58:21 finnish has 15, estonian 14 06:58:34 hungarian 22 and veps has 25 07:00:32 forms of words? 07:00:38 yeah 07:00:44 like karhu = bear 07:00:56 karhulla on turkki 07:01:00 bear has fur 07:01:05 -lla = on something, illative 07:01:21 Well, I can say only one thing... 07:01:25 lattialla on vettä = on floor there is water 07:01:37 russian has mm.. how many? 8? 07:01:43 latin has many 07:02:17 Jedinstvennyj pravil'nyj jazyk - eto Velikij i Moguchij RUSSKIJ jazyk!!! 07:02:25 ah 07:02:28 :))) 07:02:30 ;) 07:06:53 --- join: GilbertBSD (~gilbert@max1-46.dacor.net) joined #forth 07:08:03 hi Gilbert 07:08:10 hi tathi 07:09:01 Juu: ponjal 07:09:24 i.e. understood 07:10:05 it is hard for me to think those o as a as they are pronounced, if they are written o as i have to say to remember waht they mean :) 07:12:15 if i never had had good russian friend via internet, i never woudl have taken russian courses 07:13:40 saddly, though, i have not seen him for 3 or 4 years 07:14:26 maxim byl on 07:14:44 agh, i have forgotten many words from active memory 07:16:06 anyone knows voxel programming/editing tools or volume rendering? 07:17:31 Juu: if you mean "form" = "padezh" then 6 07:18:59 wait'll count them from my book :) 07:19:16 Juu: if you mean "form" = "padezh" then 6 07:19:32 Juu if you mean "form" = "padezh" then 6 07:19:38 Juu if you mean "form" = "padezh" then 6 forms 07:19:42 yea 07:19:46 6 right :) 07:20:05 nominative, genitive, dative, akkusative, instrumental, prepositional 07:20:13 (sorry, I've not seen my messages appearing) 07:20:16 finnish doenst have dative and accusative 07:20:34 ASau tehy do appear :) maybe you ignored yourself? ;) 07:21:26 Juu No, now everything works correct 07:21:54 perhaps just some lag.. 07:23:46 ASau where do you live ? 07:33:05 Now, in Moscow 07:33:35 russia is such a large country 07:33:58 Not as large as Ohio. 07:35:03 Much larger than Ohio :))) 07:35:53 okay a leeeeetle larger than ohio. 07:36:52 approx. 1e+3 times :) 07:37:09 yes 1 and 3 are small numbers. 07:37:11 No approx. 1e+2 times :) 07:37:18 even smaller ;) 07:37:39 1, 2, many is one of ways to count 07:37:51 yes an ancient tribe used to count that way. 07:38:10 I didn't know you knew how to count that way too! 07:38:34 I know it was certainly south american. 07:39:24 In this sense - much larger 07:40:20 so does Russia still make computers? 07:51:15 It does make of course 07:54:55 Heh... 07:55:14 GilbertBSD: Shouldn't you ask if they have cars in russia, or if they can read over there? 07:59:41 ;) No we have no cars, no towns, we live in smth like wigwams... 07:59:58 I knew that :) 08:00:15 We can't write, we can't read, we can't speak... 08:00:36 * rob_ert sees no contradiction in that. 08:00:50 But we're building rockets... (c) Jurij Vizbor 08:01:25 ;-) 08:01:49 * rob_ert watches the russian rockets turn around and crash 30 seconds after launch. 08:02:07 The americans are much better, they can fly 5 minutes before they explode! 08:02:48 usa rockets crash not less than ours :P 08:03:09 ASau: I had an asm manual for an old russian computer. 08:03:34 I know at a point in time, Russia was making mainframes and I was wondering if that practise still existed. 08:03:44 OR if the project had been scrapped. 08:03:54 Once upon a time, Sweden had the best computer in the world. 08:03:58 that is all I wanted to know. 08:04:14 blah blah blah. And they invented OO and everything went to hell. 08:04:15 Well. 08:04:15 Let's return back to topic 08:04:37 Topic? :) 08:04:55 * rob_ert didn't know there was any non-offtopic talk here. 08:04:56 it is on TOPIC. Do old .ru computers run forth? 08:06:16 What can you say about hierarchical vocabularies? 08:06:16 I've found nothing good in vocabulary system in Y-94 standart 08:07:09 Only the fact that many sources start 08:07:21 ONLY FORTH ALSO DEFINITIONS 08:08:19 * rob_ert can't help ASau, sorry. 08:08:20 gilbert: What computers are you interested in, "ES"? 08:08:49 I have lost the book and have forgotten what they were called. 08:09:43 rob_ert: the reason you see so many dumb shows from here is that they make the producers a lot more money than the smart shows. 08:09:43 I've not heard old "ES" (mainframes-like) are produced 08:13:14 what kind are currently made then? 08:13:56 MUR! 08:14:12 !RUM yas I 08:14:31 rum red 08:14:32 murr murr! 08:14:38 :D 08:15:05 so juu, what does 'mur' mean? 08:15:06 "murr" is "brumm" in swedish 08:15:19 and what is 'brumm'? 08:15:28 Bears say "brumm". 08:15:30 D: 08:16:06 so they walk about in the woods saying "Brumm, surely Brumm" or "Brumm I say, definitely brumm"? 08:17:09 --- part: ASau left #forth 08:18:59 GilbertBSD: Yes. 08:19:14 Now you scared away our russian friend :( 08:19:53 Did I? You scared me. 08:19:57 how about that? 08:22:56 davidw: you there? 08:24:09 You scared away him, too :( 08:24:43 roger that 08:24:44 over 08:24:55 _`-_-'_ 08:25:37 hey you do Open source consulting right? 08:26:47 yes 08:27:18 how is it going? 08:27:21 www.dedasys.com 08:27:26 Are clients catching on? 08:27:34 ok, although it would be easier if I weren't living illegally in Italy;-) 08:27:43 yes, I make an ok living though 08:27:51 hey how are the italian womeN? 08:27:59 I hear they are terribly hot. 08:28:02 I would make a lot more if I were 1) in the states 2) working with a few friends to have a 'real' business or 3) had my work permit 08:28:09 :-) 08:28:39 what kind of gigs do you get? 08:28:49 I'm working right now on some apache tcl stuff 08:28:58 I get a lot of apache related stuff, which is natural, I guess 08:29:07 so mostly webbased work then. 08:29:14 how about database work? 08:29:24 I do a variety of things 08:29:31 I haven't done so much of that 08:30:05 I know how, I'm not an expert though 08:30:16 but there is definitely a market for Open Source solutions? 08:30:28 definitely 08:30:32 IBM is doing it! 08:30:59 what you have to tell people is that you can fix their problem 08:31:03 that's what they want to hear 08:31:10 then you can also talk some about open source blah blah blah 08:32:30 Hmmm so for backend stuff, you can build a box, put in a free OS, and then implement free solutions? 08:32:36 yep 08:32:42 don't they worry about long term maintainability? 08:32:48 not really 08:32:57 they can always call me, or anyone else who knows the same system 08:33:09 or they can RTFM ;) 08:33:13 yep 08:33:21 they aren't bound to me as a 'solution provider' 08:33:59 what kind of questions do they normally ask you about OpenSourceSolutions (OSS) 08:34:36 if I make a living doing it:-) 08:35:06 really? 08:35:16 but don't they notice the bills you send to them? 08:35:22 yeah ehheh 08:35:33 * GilbertBSD rolls his eyes. 08:35:35 some people. 08:35:38 they don't really understand the process 08:35:55 but they don't expect pro-bono work all the time do they? 08:35:59 nope 08:37:16 why do they all want apache? 08:37:22 what do they need webservers for? 08:38:24 serving the web 08:38:35 "... must serve web... web is our master....uhhhhhhh" 08:39:18 I haven't seen much of a need for companies to host their own webservers... 08:39:33 they might as well make their own furniture as well. 08:42:04 davidw: so how comes the interest in forth? 08:42:14 It seems you are a tcl god of sorts. 08:43:52 again i forgot to read what you have wrien and have to reread buffer 08:44:30 Murr is what finnish bears say 08:44:53 and what do North Malaysian bears say? 08:45:18 Swedish bears say brumm :D They're more 3l33t than finnish bears. 08:45:34 no they arte not! 08:45:40 finnish bears are more elite! 08:45:44 dude, irc is finnish invention 08:45:48 and saunasa 08:45:48 .se bears need one more character to say the same things .fi bears say. 08:45:49 saunas 08:46:03 saunas are not cool at all. 08:46:08 Never seen a working, cool sauna 08:46:09 GilbertBSD yes, but swedish bears are ashamed to say that word :) 08:46:21 ah 08:46:30 GilbertBSD, because they (saunas) are warmed up when used :) 08:46:32 what does that word mean then? 08:46:51 ? 08:47:24 sauna = place where people relax, there is warm and stove 08:47:25 murr 08:47:33 murr is what finnish bears say 08:47:42 you said the .se bears were ashamed to say it. 08:47:50 say brumm 08:47:50 What does it mean in .se then? 08:47:57 ? 08:48:01 GilbertBSD just forget e 08:48:10 understand swedes takes years :) 08:48:29 ah do .sedes understand .se ? 08:48:50 i'm not so sure do swedish understand what they speak, i guess they dont :) 08:49:34 rob_ert: I now understand you. 08:49:48 GilbertBSD: :) 08:50:03 hey name a .se jazz musician. 08:50:17 I shall name a .com jazz musician (surely ALL .com is usa) 08:50:26 pff 08:50:30 no way. 08:50:36 bah 08:50:37 Name the best norwegian composer :) 08:50:38 GilbertBSD talk english 08:50:43 Grieg 08:50:51 xD 08:50:53 Good boy. 08:50:58 Name some of his songs 08:50:59 silly silly silly. 08:51:04 (In norwegian) 08:51:09 In the hall of the mountain king ... 08:51:15 peer gynt 08:51:15 Norwegian! 08:51:29 so now you renounce .se for .no ? 08:51:33 Peer Gynt is a name of a person, doesn't count. 08:51:36 Hm? 08:51:42 Peer Gynt Suite . 08:51:44 don't you know it ? 08:51:47 I just wanted to confuse you. 08:52:02 Yes, but Peer Gynt still is the name if the main charachter. 08:52:19 name a Jazz musician 08:52:29 you can't say Louis Armstrong or Kenny G. 08:52:49 ophdea 08:52:55 oh dear 08:53:21 come on... lets hear it. 08:53:38 and no googling either. 08:53:41 you are taking too long. 08:53:56 Sebalius 08:55:11 GilbertBSD back to topic :) 08:55:17 richtig 08:55:33 Du knabe nicht 08:56:01 --- join: futhin (~futhin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 08:58:13 hi futhin 08:58:29