00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.05.07 00:11:29 --- join: bob4th (~bob4th@adsl-63-197-120-243.dsl.sktn01.pacbell.net) joined #forth 00:53:35 --- join: GilbertBSD (~gilbert@m152.max3.dacor.net) joined #forth 01:05:01 --- part: GilbertBSD left #forth 01:11:45 --- quit: bob4th (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:34:55 --- join: davidw (~davidw@ppp-81-6.25-151.libero.it) joined #forth 01:36:00 Hi .) 01:36:54 hi 01:44:56 fucking fuckety bloody fucking hell... pile of shit web hosting services 01:45:12 :-/ 01:45:13 * davidw could just about scream.... 01:45:25 * rob_ert is lucky enough to have a 24/7 "server" in his house. 01:45:42 I can't beleive the incompetents 02:12:19 --- join: bob4th (~bob4th@adsl-63-197-120-243.dsl.sktn01.pacbell.net) joined #forth 03:01:00 heya 03:01:22 What'd they do, davidw? 03:02:08 Soap`: sent me an email this morning that they are discontinuing service, effective immediately 03:03:04 :/ 03:03:35 fuckers... I could wring their necks 03:03:38 ring 03:03:49 no, wring is right 03:03:54 fuck I'm forgetting english, too 03:07:24 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:10:07 --- join: Soap` (flop@203-96-107-58.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 03:19:13 --- quit: bob4th (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:13:07 --- join: bob4th (~bob4th@adsl-63-197-120-243.dsl.sktn01.pacbell.net) joined #forth 04:47:18 --- join: juu (ammu@62.165.190.249) joined #forth 05:05:07 --- quit: bob4th (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:09:56 --- join: Speuler (~l@a161161.upc-a.chello.nl) joined #forth 05:10:18 --- quit: Speuler (Client Quit) 05:43:30 --- quit: juu ("i never know or remember what my quit message was") 06:01:58 --- join: Speuler (~l@a161161.upc-a.chello.nl) joined #forth 06:02:03 'morning 06:13:55 --- join: bob4th (~bob4th@adsl-63-197-120-243.dsl.sktn01.pacbell.net) joined #forth 06:29:12 Hi 06:31:03 Hmm... how does a colon put a call to NEST in a word's code area? 06:33:15 rob_ert: ' nest LAST @ ! might do 06:33:44 rob_ert: depends on system 06:34:11 OK, just wondering if there was any magic involved. 06:34:15 Thanks. 06:34:39 LAST @ gives you the xt of most recently defined word 06:34:48 nope... 06:34:52 i'm wrong 06:35:05 gforth: lastxt does that 06:35:10 Speuler: in file included from *the terminal*:-1 06:35:10 Speuler: /tmp/fsock-sh-server.request.tmp:46: Undefined word 06:35:10 Speuler: lastxt does that 06:35:10 Speuler: ^^^^ 06:35:10 Speuler: Backtrace: 06:35:25 Hm 06:35:40 The thing is, it's a _call_ 06:35:46 gforth: lastxt . 06:35:50 i.e. opcode for call and an address 06:35:50 Speuler: 1075038224 06:36:14 gforth: lastxt >name name>string type 06:36:18 Speuler: simulated-key 06:36:39 :) 06:37:05 these words are not ANS words btw 06:37:08 Hmm...well, I need to put a call opcode there 06:37:19 sounds like DTC 06:37:31 Hrm... I'll have to calculate a relative offset, don't I? 06:37:34 Yes 06:37:41 That's what I use. 06:37:42 putting the body address on stack, with the call 06:38:05 offset: model/system specific 06:38:17 and, cpu specific 06:38:22 intel uses offsets, yes 06:38:44 Well...hmmm 06:39:10 gforth: 10 0 [do] [i] . [loop] 06:39:12 Speuler: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 06:39:29 I should subtract the offset right after the call from the offset I want to go to, right? 06:40:20 intel offset is, dest - 06:40:52 so, branch offset 0 = nop 06:41:10 Yeah... 06:41:19 :) 06:46:58 --- quit: bob4th (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:55:55 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 07:56:05 Hey :) 07:57:37 haha 07:57:46 some asshole emailed me about my forth mud project 07:57:47 ? 07:58:05 What did he say? =) 07:58:20 Obviously you came to your senses some time ago when you realized that 07:58:21 writing a MUD in forth is difficult to impossible. 07:58:33 Take a look at http://stoical.sf.net 07:58:34 STOICAL is well suited to applications programming, and gets better 07:58:34 every day. I've also just begun prototyping an interface meta language 07:58:34 who's secret purpose is to facilitate MUDs and BBSs. 07:58:37 heheh 07:58:40 it's funny 07:58:52 i don't really care about other languages 07:58:59 Hehe...what a troll :) 07:59:05 the forth mud is so that i extend the forth language 07:59:22 and get practice with forth 07:59:42 and i have seen in my mind's eye how i can make it quite elegant.. 08:00:29 of course, getting the mud from my mind's eye into the real world is going to be tricky :) 08:01:38 :) 08:01:54 oh interesting 08:01:59 stoical seems to have roots in the forth language 08:02:39 ew, he just alienated me again 08:02:41 At the time of this writing FORTH is known to him as colorForth; One imagines 08:02:41 that these colors are much like those present in his twisted visions and terror 08:02:41 filled dreams. 08:05:38 i dunno 08:05:42 i don't know if i like him heh 08:07:37 Well...spamming developers and telling them their favourite language sucks maybe isn't a very good idea. 08:07:48 yeah heh 08:10:49 --- join: bob4th (~bob4th@adsl-63-197-120-243.dsl.sktn01.pacbell.net) joined #forth 08:11:01 hello bob 08:11:54 Hello Futin 08:12:36 Hi bob4th 08:18:49 --- quit: bob4th () 08:44:07 --- quit: futhin ("bye") 09:19:25 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 09:33:10 Hi :) 09:44:00 :( 09:44:14 What's up? 09:44:18 Why so sad? 09:46:00 edpressed 09:46:31 :-/ 09:51:23 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:29:56 --- quit: goshawk` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:30:28 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 10:32:14 --- join: juu (ammu@baana-62-165-190-249.phnet.fi) joined #forth 10:33:26 murr! 10:33:34 I've written my own forth now, juu :) 10:33:45 Now I'm waiting for you to finish yours. 11:01:31 --- join: kc5tja (kc5tja@stampede.org) joined #forth 11:01:56 Hi :) 11:02:54 lo 11:03:02 rob_ert: so you made your forth? 11:03:25 Hehe, yeah 11:03:53 But be warned, a forth that takes a few hours to write (for someone who doesn't know forth) might not be very good. 11:04:00 :) 11:04:04 what target? 11:04:12 threaded code? 11:05:29 Target OS: KnasOS, Direct Threaded Code. 11:05:39 * Fare would like to see a RET-threaded FORTH. 11:05:45 (where the NEXT macro is RET) 11:06:31 Hehe 11:07:46 hmm.. 11:07:55 how's threading done in forth? 11:08:12 rob_ert finish or finnish and what? :) 11:09:09 jukkish? 11:09:34 (this of course requires a separate stack for interrupts/signals) 11:10:03 --- join: tathi (~tathi@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 11:10:27 (and either inline-expansion of code into the return/next stack, or a read-only, pop-only stack) 11:22:38 * kc5tja considers the use of a MachineForth-like meta-compilation environment for use here at work... 11:23:19 (where MachineForth not necessarily == to Chuck's vision of MachineForth) 11:28:36 --- join: Speuler (~l@a161161.upc-a.chello.nl) joined #forth 11:30:16 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 11:32:41 Hi Speuler 11:32:54 I've written a simple forth now :) 11:33:33 compiler? 11:34:09 Both compiler and intepreter, 11:35:19 so you have written compiler and interpreter? 11:35:28 Yes, that's what a forth is... 11:35:58 You know, when you compile a forth program, some part of the program is kind of a "forth script" 11:36:11 Where the code is executed during compile-time 11:39:45 Does anyone know how ." works? 11:40:02 That is, how to implement it. 11:40:18 Does it put the string at DP? 11:41:09 --- join: miket2 (Mike@modem-140-61-60-62.vip.uk.com) joined #forth 11:41:16 Hi 11:43:02 Hello 11:44:00 heh :) 11:44:09 oink: :) 11:44:17 (: 11:44:38 boing! 11:44:44 heloo boing 11:44:47 boing ? 11:44:49 ehm 11:44:51 juice ! 11:44:55 boing, oink all the same 11:45:00 :( 11:45:14 have you heard pig saying boing boing? 11:45:30 no. 11:45:31 that's when they are landing after they have been flying with the cows 11:45:46 ehm 11:46:32 --- quit: Fare ("Connection reset by pear") 11:47:04 haven't you even seen flying cows?!? 11:47:05 :) 11:48:15 Hello 11:49:34 --- part: miket2 left #forth 11:51:55 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:52:39 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 11:52:39 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 11:52:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 11:57:43 * kc5tja makes a block editor for GForth... 12:19:16 Does anyone know how ." works? 12:19:17 That is, how to implement it. 12:19:22 Do you know that, kc5tja? :) 12:19:42 In my Forths, I implement ." as a compiler word, like this: 12:20:07 : ." COMPILE (do$literal) PlaceString COMPILE TYPE ; IMMEDIATE 12:20:28 where (do$literal) is a word that skips over the embedded string, and PlaceString is a word that actually does the embedding. 12:21:04 OK... 12:21:06 Thanks :-) 12:21:07 : PlaceString ( caddr u -- ) >R R@ , HERE R@ CMOVE R> ALLOT ; 12:21:09 or something like that. 12:21:14 Hm 12:21:17 Wait a second 12:21:24 How is memory allocation done? 12:21:26 * kc5tja doesn't have the exact specifics on hand. 12:21:27 ALLOT 12:21:30 How do you allocate an array? 12:21:35 And how to implement that? 12:21:47 CREATE MyArray nbrOfElements CELLS ALLOT 12:21:57 Then to access the nth cell in the array, 12:22:06 MyArray n CELLS + @ 12:22:29 Okay...thanks again... 12:22:34 And a normal vairable? 12:22:34 np :) 12:22:35 variable* 12:22:39 VARIABLE foo 12:22:40 foo 12:22:40 ;) 12:22:42 Like VARIBALE X 12:22:42 well, 12:22:44 Well 12:22:47 How does it work? 12:22:56 VARIABLE and CREATE are basically the same. 12:23:02 The difference is that: 12:23:05 : VARIABLE CREATE 0 , ; 12:23:19 Basically, VARIABLE pre-allocates a cell to hold the value it's going to hold later on. 12:23:30 otherwise, they're identical. 12:23:36 if I do VARIABLE foo 12:23:38 and then "foo" 12:23:44 Is that a literal expression? 12:23:49 They work because when you execute a CREATEd word, the word pushes the address of its data cell onto the stack. 12:23:56 "foo" and foo would be two different words 12:24:09 well, I know 12:24:17 I just wanted it to look clearer ;) 12:24:20 Anyway... 12:24:40 How can the word push its address? Hmm... using DOVAR? 12:24:46 After foo is executed, the address of foo's storage is placed on the stack. You then use @ and ! to fetch from, or store to, that address, respectively. 12:24:51 Yes. 12:24:56 So, instead of "call enter", I do "call dovar" ? 12:25:01 The purpose of the DOVAR primitive is to do exactly that. 12:25:05 Yes. 12:25:26 Cool, thank you once again. 12:25:29 Hehe :) 12:25:51 And all I can say is, I'm implementing a block editor called VIBE -- and it's doggone cool if you ask me. 12:26:17 As you might surmise from its name, it inherits a lot from VI (especially since you can't grab F-keys and control keys portably in ANSI Forth). 12:26:46 Extending the editor is easy too. Need a new command-mode command? Just write a single : definition, and recompile the editor. 12:27:18 This is because command-mode (and insert-mode CTRL-keys) are searched for using the dictionary. Command-mode words take the form of \, while insert-mode commands are / 12:27:19 ;D 12:27:26 :) 12:27:29 Nice. 12:27:34 So if I wanted to create a new command "x" to exit the editor, I just write this: 12:27:37 Forth can almost be useful :) 12:27:42 : \x true ; 12:27:46 And re-compile. :D 12:28:57 This block editor is just a rough prototype for what I'm going to have in my FS/Forth. I'm writing it because I'm sick of having to 1) edit with vim (I love VI, but having to quit Forth to run it is cumbersome), 2) Restart GForth, 3) restart the program from scratch only to catch a bug, 4) Exit Forth and re-type the VIM commandline, 5) Search for the buggy definition, etc. 12:29:05 It's fast, but not fast enough for me. 12:29:21 Although I like the convenience of ASCII files, blocks are just *too* damn useful and convenient. 12:29:46 And now I have a VI-clone (basically) implemented for use with block editing. 12:29:51 I'm in heaven. :D 12:29:58 (it's not done yet, but it's getting done, and quickly) 12:31:33 However, the 64x16 block format is more or less pretty limiting. I'm sticking with it for now, but I think for FS/Forth, I'll change the format for the blocks a little bit. 80x12, with a 64 character "title" field, which is logically separate from the rest of the block. 12:31:49 There's no real reason to stick with 64 character wide blocks anymore. 12:31:52 Not for source code use, at least. 12:36:39 Blocks? 12:39:05 Yes; the original form in which Forth source code is expressed. 12:39:59 Originally, they corresponded to 1024-byte sectors on the disk drives of whatever Forth was running on (remember that Forth originally was written to touch the hardware of the computer directly); thus, Forth source code could be stored directly on the disk drives without the need for something like a filesystem. 12:40:22 :) 12:40:35 Later, as filesystems grew in prominence (a filesystem is an absolute necessity on multitasking OSes, BTW), blocks started to be stored in separate files. 12:40:47 Like, on GForth, blocks are stored in the blocks.fb file. 12:41:30 And my source code for hi/forth (a version of FS/Forth adapted for use here at work) will be stored in block form, because it's so much more convenient. 12:41:55 The text editor for a block system is incredibly small too. 12:41:59 What kind of things do you work with? 12:42:13 Can you refine the question a bit? 12:42:34 Well... what do you work with? :) 12:42:42 What do you do for living? 12:42:42 Chips 12:42:57 Ah. For a living, I am a semiconductor verification technician. 12:43:19 I ensure that the chips this company produces adhere to their published specifications, and if they don't, I report my findings to the appropriate party. 12:43:37 Okay :) 12:43:41 What company? 12:44:11 Hifn, Inc. 12:44:18 http://www.hifn.com 12:44:21 brb 12:44:36 Okay 12:44:44 Never heard of them, btw ;) 12:48:43 Not surprising; most Forths today work with files, and not with blocks. 12:48:49 Especially those found on Unx. 12:48:51 Unix even 12:50:03 Man, I love Forth sometimes. Now is one of those times. :D 12:54:11 =D 12:57:37 Shoot! I forgot that GForth does case insensitive lookups on the dictionary. :( 12:58:04 That means I can't distinguish between uppercase and lowercase letters in command mode. :( 12:58:18 Oh well. I'll just have to live with it. 12:58:31 kc5tja = katja? 12:58:31 :) 12:58:39 nm 12:58:40 ;) 12:58:45 No 12:58:52 KC5TJA/6 is my amateur radio callsign 12:59:22 Cool :-) 13:04:17 that looks like swedish instructions, as helpful and easy to read ;) 13:04:33 Hrmrmrm. 13:04:53 to be honest, i know swedish better than native speaking rob_ert :) 13:05:16 Heh 13:05:33 You're not a good liar :D 13:05:44 yes, but this time i'm not lying 13:06:18 * rob_ert leaves juu alone. 13:07:01 rob_ert you can't i was not here even! 13:07:06 just returned :) 13:07:22 Heheh :) 13:42:10 --- join: GilbertBSD (~gilbert@max1-44.dacor.net) joined #forth 13:42:21 Hi :) 13:42:33 Guten Aben Herr rob_ert 13:42:38 I never though a forth would go _this_ fast to write. 13:42:43 Guten Abend. 13:42:56 what do you mean go this fast? 13:43:28 rob_ert: My Forth is taking bloody forever. 13:43:35 Are you writing it in raw assembly language? 13:43:40 hi kc 13:43:57 you recommended Duntemann's book right? 13:44:39 Who's Duntemann? 13:44:58 kc5tja: Of course :-) 13:45:10 who then recommended Duntemanns book? 13:45:16 kc5tja: But mine looks more like a quick hack to solve a problem than a real forth :) 13:45:58 rob_ert: So does mine, actually. And it is precisely that -- a quick hack. :) 13:46:25 Hehe... mine is worse! ;) 13:46:47 Well, I'm writing my Forth specifically to metacompile the real Forth. 13:47:14 kc have you seen the 3 instruction forth? 13:48:12 GilbertBSD: Nope. 13:48:59 http://www.eskimo.com/~pygmy/forth.html 13:49:51 3 instructions? 13:50:10 yep. Take a look at it. 13:52:23 --- quit: ChanServ (ACK! SIGSEGV!) 13:52:36 Yay! 13:52:50 yay Chanserv has left? 13:52:57 ;D 13:53:21 :)) 13:55:46 I see a heck of a lot more than three instructions being used... 13:55:56 But I could be missing something. 13:56:31 *shrugs* 13:56:50 lemme see hold on. 13:57:50 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 13:57:50 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 13:57:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 13:58:38 The 3 instructions are 13:58:38 XC@ fetch a byte 13:58:38 XC! store a byte 13:58:38 XCALL jump to a subroutine 14:01:13 :-) 14:04:01 --- quit: tathi ("Client Exiting") 14:05:32 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 14:05:39 hi Fare 14:05:48 lo 14:06:10 How is Bastiat today? 14:06:56 HI :) 14:07:05 What's Bastiat? 14:07:43 ah but I thought people from .se knew EVERYTHING 14:08:31 Bah 14:09:06 who's talking about Bastiat? 14:09:45 rob_ert: is. 14:09:51 Heh. 14:10:20 well, Bastiat.org can tell you everything about it 14:10:31 :D 14:15:30 --- join: CrowKilr (Vapo_Rulez@cnq5-233.cablevision.qc.ca) joined #forth 14:15:53 Hi 14:15:59 hi! 14:16:50 --- quit: ChanServ (ACK! SIGSEGV!) 14:16:55 hi CrowKilr 14:16:59 Haha 14:17:03 2nd sigsev ;D 14:17:14 --- join: davidw (~davidw@ppp-114-9.25-151.libero.it) joined #forth 14:17:28 Hi :) 14:26:21 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 14:26:21 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 14:26:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 14:27:03 Im in the process of making a stack-based 20 instructions x86 assembler 14:27:20 just enough to be able to implement the x18 virtual machine 14:29:25 --- quit: ChanServ (ACK! SIGSEGV!) 14:29:45 bha! 14:29:46 3rd 14:29:56 =) 14:30:29 signal segmentation... v is for what? 14:30:37 rob_ert: you gruiky C coder.. i'm trying to port MSA to linux .. :) 14:30:46 CrowKilr: Segmentation fault 14:30:49 Signal Segment Voilation 14:30:55 Voil ? 14:30:55 :) 14:30:57 oink: Hehe :) 14:31:01 Violation? 14:31:09 :) 14:31:23 me englisch sukks 14:31:39 me englischs sukz m0re 14:31:58 xD 14:32:04 El Oinko! 14:32:09 si ? 14:32:12 que quieres ? 14:32:15 XD 14:32:19 (: 14:32:23 Non :) 14:32:27 arf :) 14:32:30 :D 14:32:35 niet.. 14:34:13 WOOHOO...block editor is taking in text now! I only need to add cursor movement functionality, and it'll be borderline useful. 14:35:07 --- join: tcn (tcn@tc2-login37.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 14:35:15 Hi 14:35:20 kc5tja: :) 14:35:21 hello 14:43:58 So there are 20 people here and nobody's talking? 14:44:46 Yeah. 14:44:53 I'm coding ;) 14:45:54 I'm translating code. 14:45:57 tcn: whadya wanna talk about? 14:47:34 nothing really 14:47:45 :D 14:48:56 the usual -- nothing 14:48:56 :) 14:49:06 oink is porting a crappy 16-bit assembler written by a 14-year old to Linux. 14:49:11 Isn't that pretty useless? 14:49:42 i'm ... ehm... bored ? :) 14:49:54 eheh 14:51:34 Hehe 14:51:35 he 14:51:41 rob_ert: you're still 14 ? 14:51:50 Hell no! 14:51:58 I'm a very big and mature 16 y/o ;P 14:52:00 oink how olad areyou? 14:52:09 71 14:52:09 he's big but not mature 14:52:10 i'm retired. 14:52:16 retarded? 14:52:25 !#@{} 14:52:39 rob_ert: he! 14:56:42 oink you are older than CM? 14:57:00 i was j/k .. 14:57:03 i'm 16 14:58:51 * Soap` is surrounded by young punks 14:58:51 Hehe 14:58:54 Yeah 14:58:59 * rob_ert pokes Soap`. 14:59:11 How's life in kindergarden, Soap`? : 15:00:04 Oi! 15:00:43 I'll have you know I'm an ancient and venerable 19. 15:01:19 Well... still old enough to be my big brother :) 15:01:49 I feel like an old fart 15:01:56 24 :) 15:01:59 Hehe' 15:02:14 Well... compare yourself to Chuck Moore, and you're always young ;) 15:02:36 hey do kids in Sweden do the hambo or is that uncool? 15:03:02 I don't dance at all. 15:03:08 * rob_ert codes instead :} 15:03:30 * juu feels 19 is enough and not too much at the same time 15:03:45 you should try it sometime. it's cool once you get the rhythm 15:03:47 16 is best 15:03:51 tcn, bla, it'll go over.. the life.. muhaha.. hmm.. do we have some nightmare sound to here? 15:04:39 no? 15:04:44 not then 15:04:45 :) 15:04:55 * juu writes 0 EXIT to scare all forth coders 15:06:05 * rob_ert doeas a CLEAR to delete the evil word jukka 15:06:53 --- quit: GilbertBSD ("xchat exiting..") 15:15:12 --- nick: joa -> sigsegv 15:15:26 im trying to do a x18 instruction set (MachineForth) metacompiler for the x86, any suggestions or thoughts? 15:15:42 --- nick: sigsegv -> joa 15:16:14 hmm.. joa qhwew do you live at? 15:16:31 usa 15:16:42 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 15:16:42 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 15:16:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 15:16:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tcn 15:16:49 ChanServ: wb 15:19:24