00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.04.26 00:01:04 what a day. first netscape code, then zombies 00:01:35 isn't one a subset of the other??? 00:02:15 oh, and i forgot c++ which seems to be a favourite weapon of the zombie-minded 00:02:50 * Soap- hides the "learn c++ in 21 days" book where qless will never see it. 00:03:09 C++ for Dummies 00:03:16 C++ for zombies 00:03:33 Zombies for C++ ??? 00:03:39 --- quit: gforth (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds) 00:03:58 i'd rather spend 21 days listening to Jewel 00:04:06 ...if i'm going to be tortured 00:05:11 next thing you know, there'll be a band, "Grateful C" 00:06:29 C i can stand. it is as sensisble as a structured assembler can be... C++ is like... 00:06:35 ... is like 00:06:54 a sack full of venomous snakes??? 00:07:00 yes! 00:07:11 who are all chained to your feet 00:07:25 "one wrong move" and BLAM 00:07:35 * Soap- is calling systraps designed for C programmers from Forth 00:07:46 Some of them require 20 odd items on the stack :/ 00:07:52 yoiu can use the sack as it is, or you can try to reach inside and change something. 00:07:57 exc-cll-ent 00:08:04 200?!?! 00:08:12 what would use 200? 00:08:14 -0. 00:08:21 an incredibly complicated fprintf? 00:08:38 sounds like a programmertrap to me 00:08:56 oh, registers and whatnot? 00:09:15 I think the PalmOS people designed their version of Berkley Sockets specifically to annoy me. 00:09:51 oh? what's wrong with them? 00:10:08 I'm not to pleased with the glibc version, even though it's standard 00:10:24 seems like a bazzilion steps to do a rather simple task 00:10:47 at the same time, I can't think of a way to make it simpler without giving up substantial functionality 00:11:39 Considering they've *already* given up substantial functionality I don't know why they went with Berkley at all. 00:12:33 Max of 4 sockets (active + listening) at any one time. TeensyStack (tm) 00:12:38 are they asynchronous, at least?? 00:13:24 * Soap- blinks 00:13:25 you've lost me 00:13:28 gotta keep ActiveSynch in demand, you know 00:14:05 --- join: gforth (guest@adsl52030.vnet.hu) joined #forth 00:14:25 on Win32, those operations that might block for any period of time (and many that won't) have versions that return immediately, and then call a procedure when the task is done 00:14:36 wb, gforth 00:14:41 AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! 00:14:51 (win32) 00:16:29 I think they just went the cheap and nasty way... lots of stuff has a timeout value you can set in order to regain control 00:17:23 ok, synchronous calls, then 00:17:51 * MrReach yawns and wonders if he should pour alcohol. 00:18:09 the is so much more interesting when I've got a good head on 00:18:26 the world is, rather 00:18:37 Mmmm 00:19:20 * qless looks at the syringe filled with 3,4-methahexophenylbarbitolamine... 00:19:46 time for some FORTH programming, i'd say 00:19:46 what the hell? 00:19:55 seditive or stimulant? 00:19:57 Caffeine, I think. 00:20:09 heh, didn't know that 00:20:09 both stimulant and sedative 00:20:18 still won't know it tomorrow, I think 00:20:31 if you can draw that, then you're GOOD 00:20:55 * qless is pure evil incarnate 00:21:16 well, just finished a pot of coffee, and still yawning 00:21:17 that's why my forth words have 60-odd lines 00:21:29 heh, mine often do, also 00:21:38 * Soap- looks up the caffeine faq 00:21:41 Okay, what the heck is that? 00:21:42 factor shmactor 00:21:42 but that's because I write-test-write-test 00:22:07 caffein is 1,3 7-trimethylxanthine 00:22:33 * MrReach goes for alcohol 00:22:33 I sit corrected. 00:23:32 * qless 's pupils shrink to the size of purely theoretical particles 00:27:38 When I was running TerraComm, we had this coder ... 00:28:02 *VERY* good at what he did, but we used to sit and drink after work 00:28:10 god he drank a lot 00:28:36 and I got used to drinking with him on Friday nights, total binging, drink 'till you pass out 00:28:45 shweeet 00:29:21 then one day he announces "I only drink to see if I can stop, I'm a closet masocist" 00:29:36 and damned if he didn't quit cold turkey 00:30:08 were you disappointed? 00:30:11 * MrReach shrugs, "Go figure." 00:30:23 well, I missed my drinking buddy 00:30:41 when i quit drinking, all my drinking buddies kept looking at me sideways, whistling, then shaking their heads 00:31:10 all 1 of them 00:31:14 ha! 00:31:46 * qless looks at the rye on the shelf and wonders if he should join the party 00:31:58 my bots seem to be suffering from expotential state information 00:32:33 there's all kinds of things to store about users, channels, servers, and networks 00:32:42 bloody damn 00:33:12 looks like I'll finally have to upgrade my Pentium200 server 00:33:49 * qless chants, A-M-D. A-M-D. A-M.D. 00:34:13 heh 00:34:22 or as they say in canada, A-M-D-A 00:59:57 hmmm, getting quiet in here 01:18:04 a bit 01:19:41 what u drinking, mrreach? 01:24:26 4th: .( alive? ) 01:24:27 onetom: alive? 01:25:00 --- quit: qless () 01:26:51 --- join: davidw (~davidw@ppp-143-5.25-151.libero.it) joined #forth 01:59:54 --- join: davidw_ (~davidw@ppp-130-10.25-151.libero.it) joined #forth 02:27:45 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:29:18 --- nick: davidw_ -> davidw 03:11:13 qless: still awake? 03:12:24 heh, guess not 03:40:24 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@m142.max3.dacor.net) joined #forth 03:42:44 'morning 03:42:59 hi 03:43:21 greets 03:43:30 oh! 03:43:38 oh? 03:43:39 you're all still awake ? 03:43:48 yep, drinking tonight 03:43:56 must be a terrible time 03:44:07 oh, god aweful 03:44:25 * Speuler just woke up 03:44:26 can't wait 'till it's over @:^> 03:44:36 no hangover at all 03:44:46 no reason to 03:44:48 * MrReach offers Speuler his choice of strong coffee or a latte'. 03:44:50 :) 03:45:29 i'm not used to the habit of having coffee early 03:45:35 ok 03:45:50 i try to wake up the slow way 03:45:59 the organic way 03:46:11 "morning 03:46:13 " 03:46:24 t'is past noon already 03:46:31 heh 03:46:44 fth: 6 . 03:46:45 late night at the cafe'??? 03:47:18 4th: 7 . 03:47:19 Speuler: 7 03:47:27 my partner wants to open a cafe'/gaming room 03:47:28 oops 03:47:47 I'm not so sure ... need to do more research 03:47:54 4th: : xxx begin key drop again ; xxx 03:48:10 ha! hadn't though of that one! 03:48:11 4h: 8 . 03:48:22 4th: 8 . 03:48:40 i stopped it for savety reasons 03:49:07 couln't imagine how it came alive again 03:49:10 gforth is your bot??? 03:49:19 no, onetoms 03:49:20 oh 03:49:21 ! 03:49:25 onetom is online 03:49:38 well, he's in channel anyway 03:49:39 40 seconds idle... 03:50:07 a bot front end to gforth would be cool, but nearly impossible to secure 03:50:19 we rooted onetoms box this morning 03:50:27 then decided to kill the bot 03:50:37 w/o the passwd??? 03:51:29 i was trying to crash open doors 03:51:37 so was I 03:51:47 but not that experienced at hacking 03:52:00 sorry ... cracking 03:53:23 i just got to netherlands yesterday evening 03:53:40 hope that's seens as confidence :) 03:54:10 (more than half of the machines in the cafe are running new setup now) 03:54:34 only put those machines on 2 days before i went to NL 03:54:52 if they fail, nobody can fix it .. 03:55:12 so it mustn't fail 03:55:34 thought that's a good moment to go away for a few days :) 03:56:40 but i'm not running onetom-like bots there 03:57:06 no, of course not 03:57:26 that's a commercial establishment that you do not own 03:57:45 not yet 03:57:48 and it is unlikely that you could justify providing that kind of service 03:57:48 hehe 03:58:00 do you think you might own it? 03:58:00 --- quit: gilbertbsd ("xchat exiting..") 03:58:33 partially ,yes 03:59:05 there are about 20 more cafes to come soon 03:59:16 what might be accomplished by partnering with a similar organisation in the states? 03:59:25 and i went to participation 03:59:27 for 03:59:27 oh? the loans are arranged??? 03:59:43 comes from the reserves 04:00:15 20 cafe's from reinvestment??? 04:00:36 that guy has several places 04:00:43 that's seems pretty amibitious, am I mistaken? 04:00:44 and some real estate 04:00:49 oh! 04:01:00 RE is a different game altogether 04:01:11 now he's into expansion mode 04:01:25 it's proven, then? 04:01:34 despite your expensive hardware??? 04:01:46 what expensive ? 04:02:06 i think it was comparable cheap 04:02:26 flat panel monitors, slim computers, copper gigabit hardware, etc, etc 04:03:06 saving a harddisk with every computer, and floppy drive 04:03:19 no HD at all? 04:03:21 cool 04:03:24 flat panels were planned in anyway 04:03:34 swap to server, no wonder you needed gigabit 04:03:55 i asked for more ram 04:04:11 that's sensible, especialy for gaming machines 04:04:27 that's one of the few more expensive parts 04:04:43 workstations got 256 mb now 04:04:59 but speeds them up, and reduces network load 04:05:04 anyway, your setup seems it would be 30% more expensive than a standard desktop gaming machine 04:05:20 i doubt it 04:05:45 do you think the price breaks about even? substantially less expensive? 04:06:03 the workstations are nothing more than a standard motherboard with all devices integrated 04:06:04 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:06:13 add cpu, ram, screen 04:06:17 including video? 04:06:20 yes 04:06:24 erm .. 04:06:26 not a single card plugged in 04:06:27 ok 04:06:35 so much for onetom 04:06:45 the cafe has proven itself?? 04:07:15 --- quit: gforth (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:07:26 the first machine (running for a few weeks) did. now half of the machiners are proofing themselves i hope 04:07:30 * MrReach envisions a franchised gaming room corporation 04:07:56 actually, franchising was what "the boss" was thinking about 04:08:18 well, it's actually beneficial to keep the stores owned by the corporation 04:08:28 you license our stuff, and therefore you may stick our logo on your door 04:08:34 :) 04:08:38 the growth is slower, but the profits are astronomical 04:09:28 first 20 cafes are thought to stay cmopany owned 04:09:30 company 04:09:47 please don't worry about typos 04:10:14 you must have a really good physical location 04:10:35 there were an average of 9.5 logins/machine sold yesterday 04:10:36 what makes you think the owner will take you in as a partner? 04:10:43 yikes! 04:10:51 that's hella good! 04:11:00 how do you structure prices? 04:11:05 preliminary talks 04:11:15 x for the first hour ... x-y for each hour after? 04:11:21 and intentiomal statements 04:11:29 has changed recently 04:11:29 * MrReach nods. 04:11:38 you trust the owner, I take it? 04:11:41 more expensive now 04:12:04 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@max2-97.dacor.net) joined #forth 04:12:05 no more free computer time when having food+drink 04:12:06 has the business decreased? 04:12:16 oh! ok 04:12:16 I just made a remarkable discovery! 04:12:21 didn't know that was the case 04:12:26 gilbertbsd: what's that? 04:12:27 or perhpaps I should have known all along ... 04:12:32 when you boot up freebsd ... 04:12:38 it would have had if they'd tried to continue running the old stuff 04:12:40 and you hit any key before it continues booting. 04:12:48 what you get is a forth interpreter! 04:12:54 people were unhappy, 'bout speed and reliability 04:12:55 really? 04:12:57 it did everything I asked it to do. 04:12:58 yep! 04:13:03 cool 04:13:15 Speuler: and you "fixed" that? 04:13:16 I was thoroughly impressed! 04:13:29 looks like it 04:13:35 as far, people are happy 04:13:37 servers too 04:13:45 more ram, and swap to 100BT server? 04:14:19 i hear often that the new system is much better than the old one 04:14:31 and it's much less work for the staff too 04:14:40 yes, I can imagine 04:15:00 when there was only one machine, 04:15:03 and don't need to worry about corrupting a system by shutting power off 04:15:16 --- join: onetom (tom@adsl52030.vnet.hu) joined #forth 04:15:22 there's mult servers now? 04:15:24 wb, onetom 04:15:25 people were sometimes waiting for >1hour for that machine to become available 04:15:42 oh! more linux machines, you mean? 04:15:57 (the ones who used it before) 04:16:09 still only one server 04:16:14 but there will be more 04:16:21 each machine is a dual network boot? 04:16:23 talking some load of the one 04:16:29 * MrReach nods. 04:16:36 what is "dual netboot" ? 04:16:48 boots from network 04:16:54 either linux or Windows 04:16:58 no 04:17:01 only linux 04:17:13 oh? Windows forbidden? 04:17:19 cafe is windows-free zone 04:17:26 I'll be damned 04:17:38 (except the advertisment display) 04:17:39 and you get all the games? 04:17:47 a few. need more 04:18:04 is ti true that many games are windows only? 04:18:07 it is not a gaming experience right now 04:18:14 oh! ok 04:18:18 food and comp 04:18:34 now also mexican kitchen 04:18:38 and cocktails 04:18:58 so mostly a food establishment, with comps as perk? 04:19:04 and ice cream 04:19:22 how do the users view it? 04:19:36 the ones who go there like it. 04:19:39 licensing of such might be a bitch in the USA 04:19:52 probably because t'is not an internet factory 04:20:04 you can sit outside too 04:20:07 what is "internet factory"? 04:20:20 chicken battery icafe 04:20:42 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 04:20:51 you mean where the focus is on computers and not on interaction with the people around you? 04:20:56 morning the_rob 04:20:57 greets, rob_ert 04:21:22 heh, "chicken battery" 04:21:28 never heard that term 04:21:36 where there's is no option to focus anywhere else 04:21:47 * MrReach nods. 04:21:50 factory chickens ? 04:21:55 good morning/evening/afternoon Speuler & MrReach. 04:22:01 so ambience is important to your establishment? 04:22:13 defintely 04:22:28 carpeting? 04:22:31 otherwise that place couldn't match up the competition 04:22:43 which there is 04:22:56 I hope you don't mind, I'm prying at what makes your company successful 04:23:01 with hundreds, even thousand computed on one single site 04:23:27 ehy, is your web cam working now? 04:23:33 there's one in london, with 4000 computers, i hear 04:23:43 a pciture is worth a thousand words, as they say 04:23:50 that must be huge 04:23:51 * davidw wants to start a company with his friends 04:24:01 I'm going fucking nuts working on my own 04:24:03 yes, that is good sized 04:24:12 cubicals on several floors 04:24:24 i need to grab me a breakfast 04:24:29 townwards 04:24:35 davidw: forming a company is simple ... making it viable is difficult 04:24:40 or, truckwards 04:24:44 heh 04:24:54 working on my own is not productive though 04:25:02 there's no comunication or sharing of ideas 04:25:13 davidw: it's really not about profitability, either 04:25:17 most people have probably finished their lunch by now 04:25:19 most can be profitable 04:25:20 none of that friendly competition to make things happen 04:25:40 it's more about spending your time in a place that provides maximum return for it 04:25:46 yeah 04:26:26 I know lots of people who own their own business, but will never break $60,000/year 04:26:45 in some places, that wouldn't be so bad 04:26:56 as long as they're not killing themselves, and they're happy 04:27:12 hmmm 04:27:32 what do you call "productive enough"??? 04:28:19 creating something useful you feel good about 04:28:35 regardless of profit or income? 04:28:54 man, you're talking about some *REAL* soul-searching 04:29:05 I haven't discovered that one for myself yet 04:29:24 I'd be happy working with a few friends doing cool shit 04:29:55 sounds like you already have sharp images of what that would look like 04:30:20 what is "cool shit" 04:30:26 ??? 04:30:31 heh, that's a good question 04:32:48 you know, it's really quite remarkable the turn that Speuler's career(s) have taken 04:33:01 yeah? where's his resume? 04:33:21 here is a guy that does mostly embedded microcontroller stuff 04:33:27 did I ever tell you about the year I spent wrestling snakes for a living in Brazil? 04:33:41 now he's not hardly programming at all 04:33:53 that's pretty common, actually 04:33:54 but instead configuring linux machines 04:34:02 mmmm 04:34:12 that doesn't sound like a big step up;-/ 04:34:17 not only that, he's being exposed to the business side of computing 04:34:36 no, it's not as far as satisfaction in product goes 04:34:48 but he used to be paid by the hour 04:35:12 when he becomes partner, he's paid by each client that steps through the door 04:35:32 and he doesn't actually have to be there for that to happen 04:35:44 yes, that's a very positive thing;-) 04:35:50 that's one of the things to consider ... exit strategy 04:35:56 this is superb... so I can write newbie forth progrmams without even booting an OS. 04:36:13 yes, tru, gilbertbsd 04:36:27 gilbertbsd: what is it? 04:36:34 although saving them might be difficult 04:36:57 davidw: freebsd 04:37:05 the greatest OS since BSD 04:37:05 freebsd is an OS 04:37:11 yes the bootloader isn't. 04:37:13 heh 04:37:29 ah, no... the 2nd or 3rd stage is 'ficl' 04:37:38 I can turn on my computer and run forth;-) 04:37:48 ficl? 04:37:51 what is ficl? 04:37:51 yeah 04:37:55 ficl.sourceforge.net 04:37:56 are all the drivers present??? 04:38:08 it's the forth used for the freebsd bootloader 04:38:27 MrReach: in the bootloader? I doubt it... in OF? mmmmm don't really know 04:38:31 it's a freeware version of Open Firmware 04:39:09 davidw: how do you run ficl? 04:39:13 from a floppy? or how? 04:39:15 ./ficl 04:39:23 I just downloaded it and compiled it 04:39:31 it runs on linux/bsd/whatever quite well... 04:39:40 Speuler: you watching? 04:39:59 I'm not convinced it's the best 'little forth' out there, but it seems ok 04:40:16 I think pforth is easier to cram into small spaces, but maybe that's because I know it a bit better 04:40:27 or eforth 04:40:33 (tiny) 04:40:40 link? 04:40:55 eforth? check taygeta 04:41:00 just a sec ... 04:41:06 davidw: that means you have to boot an OS first no? 04:41:36 gilbertbsd: well, yeah 04:41:50 http://homepage.mac.com/forth/ 04:42:34 MrReach: uhh, no. body care. 04:42:55 this eforth stuff looks weird 04:43:17 will leave in a few minutes 04:43:29 eforth has expired??? 04:43:38 ok 04:43:45 I should sleep, anyway 04:44:29 Night 04:44:46 g'd night mrreach 04:44:54 be well, folks 04:45:02 --- quit: MrReach () 04:46:07 onetom: alive ? 04:47:08 4th: .( alive? ) 04:48:31 Speuler: I doubt that. 04:50:07 i gotta leave now. can you tell him to look for any unusual files in his root directory ? 04:50:22 (before he turns the bot on again:) 04:51:51 Bye Speuler 05:16:06 --- nick: gilbertbsd -> gilbertBSD 05:34:19 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:43:36 --- quit: Speuler ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1") 05:46:39 --- quit: gilbertBSD ("xchat exiting..") 06:11:13 --- join: davidw (~davidw@ppp-173-10.25-151.libero.it) joined #forth 06:27:58 --- join: herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:31:32 Hey 06:39:26 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:40:06 --- join: sif (~siforth@ip68-9-58-81.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:40:06 Type sif: (or /msg sif to play in private) 06:40:25 sif: .( :D) 06:40:26 rob_ert: :D 07:09:16 --- quit: rob_ert ("(:") 07:09:19 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 07:15:27 --- join: tathi (~tathi@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 08:47:58 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 09:02:38 --- quit: Soap- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:15:13 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@max2-90.dacor.net) joined #forth 09:17:36 --- quit: gilbertbsd ("xchat exiting..") 09:28:32 --- join: gforth (guest@adsl52030.vnet.hu) joined #forth 09:30:10 --- join: onetom_ (tom@adsl52030.vnet.hu) joined #forth 09:30:21 --- quit: onetom_ (Remote closed the connection) 09:30:29 --- join: onetom (tom@adsl52030.vnet.hu) joined #forth 10:24:04 it there is +! whats the name of its char sized counterpart? 10:24:16 s/it/^if/ 10:24:26 s/^it/if/ 10:43:16 --- quit: futhin ("work") 11:11:50 --- quit: tathi ("Client Exiting") 11:29:45 --- join: tathi (~tathi@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 11:58:08 --- join: Soap` (flop@203-96-107-10.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 12:01:29 --- quit: rob_ert ("(:") 12:29:48 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 12:32:00 man.. all these idlers on this chan! 12:32:15 heh 12:33:00 a sign of idle minds 12:33:36 idle minds are the devil's tools for coding evil things 12:34:16 bah 12:34:47