00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.03.25 00:59:04 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:01:23 --- join: Soap` (flop@210-55-120-200.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 01:46:29 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:49:55 --- join: Soap` (flop@210-54-78-82.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 02:21:24 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 02:28:25 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 02:28:31 hello 02:28:42 Hi :) 02:28:49 i'm going to pull an allnighter 02:28:51 fun fun 02:29:20 gotta hax0r 02:29:40 :DD 02:31:19 postscript hax0ring 02:35:47 onetom: let me know when you wake up :) 02:42:26 futhin: You don't asm anymore? ;) 02:42:35 <-- futhin (thin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) has left #asm 02:52:04 i was just checking to see who was on #asm 02:52:37 Mkay 03:09:22 futhin: im awaken but im in the city 03:10:05 tryin 2 finish the administration related 2 the military service 03:10:53 i ll b available more continously ~6hrs l8r 03:16:18 heh 03:16:24 i'll probably be sleeping in 6 hrs :P 03:16:32 well not really 03:16:41 more like 8 hrs 03:16:54 got a meeting at 10 am 03:18:01 10am in what zome? 03:23:23 it's 4 am now 03:23:32 4:23 to be exact 03:23:39 er, 4:24 :P 03:23:49 hm, my watch is fast 03:29:10 i guess i'm in mountain time zone (MT? MST?) or center (CST) 03:35:51 postscript is pretty leat 03:35:53 leet 03:36:10 it'd be pretty easy to convert it to forth, to create a forth "postscript" 03:36:14 like .fps 03:36:22 that gets run 03:36:26 and draws pretty stuff 03:44:00 postscript is a pretty leet way to draw graphics 03:44:14 so a forth postscript (.fps) would be damn leet 03:44:27 and it woulnd't be restricted to just printable/viewable files 03:44:36 it'd be much more interactive if the coder wanted that 03:44:46 the coder could code his gui using .fps 03:44:54 er 03:45:02 s/.fps/forth "postscript" 03:45:34 how about, call it ForthPS 03:46:50 it might be a little slower than bitmap graphics ?? 03:47:11 but it would be a powerful "language" 03:49:42 i mean like 03:49:51 why the hell do people use OpenGL for example? 03:50:14 could forth postscript replace OpenGL? does OpenGL have any advantages?? 03:51:09 postscript is really easy to use, very simple, limited set of commands, good references in .pdf format, etc 04:01:42 much simpler & "higher-level" than forth 04:42:14 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 04:55:21 --- quit: Fare (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:55:21 --- quit: futhin (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:55:21 --- quit: rob_ert (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:55:21 --- quit: MrGone (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:57:59 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 04:57:59 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-174-2.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 04:57:59 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 04:57:59 --- join: MrGone (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 05:22:15 bah 05:22:19 bahbahbah 07:28:51 * onetom home 07:28:57 * onetom is @ home 07:32:51 [12:50] why the hell do people use OpenGL for example? 07:33:06 [[12:50] could forth postscript replace OpenGL? 07:33:27 ps is a 2d page descriptor lang 07:33:53 opengl is a 3d scene descriptor "lang" 07:34:21 ps program is converted into a 2d bitmap 07:35:12 opengl is an api 2 build & modify 3d scenes 07:35:30 what r converted 2 a 2d bitmap later 07:36:08 repeatedly and very fast 09:45:44 yeah 09:45:45 hmm 09:46:06 are you familiar with opengl? 09:46:10 is it easy to use? 09:48:43 i wonder how easy it would be to extend forth postscript into 3d scene descriptor lang ? 10:09:07 --- join: MaD70 (~Max@r-bs025-1-234.tin.it) joined #forth 10:09:17 /me is reading the log, so ... 10:09:18 futhin: Meme is a Forth combined with RenderWare, a proprietary high-performance 3-D rendering engine, at http://www.immersive.com/ 10:09:29 ops 10:09:41 howdy mad70 10:09:50 Hello there 10:09:50 who are you? :) 10:09:54 hi futhin 10:10:06 do i know you? 10:10:15 no, probably 10:10:27 I speak english very bad 10:10:29 are you a forther or just a tuneser that was reading the logs ? 10:10:58 yeah, i've heard of meme, i even tried it out.. 10:11:07 What languages do you speak then, MaD70? 10:11:07 well not proper a forther .. but a tuneser surely 10:11:08 futhin: im not familiar w 3d programming 10:11:15 I'm italian 10:11:29 OK... Only italian then? 10:11:39 btw, your english doesn't look that horrible 10:11:42 a little bit of english 10:11:43 I've seen much worse :P 10:11:48 futhin: if i would b probably i could say, yes, opengl is ez 10:12:05 hm 10:12:15 postscript is really easy :) 10:12:50 well, i'm gonna take a nap for 2-3 hours 10:12:58 could u pinpoint it why is it more HL than 4tH? 10:13:14 it is more highlevel because you can put strings on the stack, etc 10:13:24 bye all 10:13:29 bye mad70 10:13:32 please come again :) 10:13:39 ok 10:13:42 --- part: MaD70 left #forth 10:13:45 onetom: you can put many different objects on the stack 10:13:52 futhin: (im already winking into the dir of the bed ;) 10:14:01 bool, number, string, dictionary, etc 10:14:10 there's probably 10 different objects.. 10:14:35 onetom: ah, tired too? 10:14:42 & how r all these stuff represented in fact? 10:14:53 coz, 4th also has all of these 10:15:07 yeah 10:15:36 but it's not as straightforward 10:15:36 futhin: yes, me tired. probably i still wont go 2 aikido :( 10:15:43 you don't actually put a string on the stack 10:15:46 only an address or whatever:P 10:15:47 postscript is like: (Hello world) show 10:15:48 could u show me examples? 10:16:14 s" hello world" type ;) 10:16:48 (Hello world) (Hi World) exch (Hola World) exch show show show 10:16:50 :P 10:16:59 but how do u know is it really stored on the stack? 10:17:00 s" puts two numbers on thes tack 10:17:03 how lame is that ;) 10:17:08 it's all parsed 10:17:15 no way of knowing :P 10:17:53 i doubt ps does it another way :/ 10:19:20 http://hermantom.homeip.net/~guest/forth/mufcode.txt 10:19:43 this is a forth-like language 10:20:21 and another forth coder said it seems more high-level 10:20:27 than forth 10:20:43 * onetom have a look @ mufcode.txt 10:20:48 has 10:21:27 by the way, "awaken" is past tense. "awake" is present tense. "I have awaken" "I am awake" 10:22:14 futhin: im awaken but im in the city 10:22:48 it's cute to say awaken in that manner, but i'm making sure you know that it's being misused slightly .. :) 10:23:12 mufcode.txt 10:23:15 is a little ugly 10:23:48 it's a little program for a TinyMUCK.. a MUD 10:24:40 hm 10:24:49 i had some other muf code 10:25:31 futhin: thank u 4 fixing my lang errors. plz do it as often as u dont shy of it ;) 10:26:20 * onetom trouble shoots the net settings of a win xp 10:26:23 brb 10:26:40 anyway, ive managed 2 boot colorforth 10:27:11 .... well, this man - chuck moore - is a crazy guy 10:27:27 he's leet :P 10:27:43 although 10:27:49 ive seen not such curious system never ever b4 :))) 10:27:53 i don't like the keyboard 10:28:05 i want to make full use of the keyboard 10:28:11 * onetom is wondering why... lolll 10:28:12 not some weird keyboard map 10:28:33 the colorforth keyboard map slows me down :( 10:30:58 yeah 10:31:04 if i ever hack colorforth 10:31:10 i'll change the keyboard 10:31:21 first thing 10:32:22 check this out.. http://hermantom.homeip.net/~guest/forth/knock.txt 10:32:32 i dunno 10:33:20 when i said postscript is more "high-level" i meant that it takes care of the programmer more... the programmer doesn't have to think as much, and can have all sorts of crappy code :P 10:33:41 but chuck was talking about a standard keymap 2 10:33:44 but it is true that forth can be extended up to a high-level 10:34:28 do u think u can recompile color4th from those 3 provided asm sources? 10:34:40 onetom: i tried to code hello world or something like that in colorforth.. bah, never got my code loaded :( 10:34:49 the code was in block 64, and i typed 64 load 10:34:51 nothing happened 10:35:50 onetom: are you asking if *i* can recompile color4th or if anybody can recompile color4th ?? 10:36:36 i had all the code setup properly in block 64 10:37:07 it never got loaded 10:37:19 typing 64 load did nothing.. it was weird 10:37:37 knock.txt: is it a soap opera generator? ;) 10:37:58 * onetom is still supporting 10:39:01 heh 10:39:05 it's a knock knock program 10:39:15 futhin: imeant: anybody can recompile 10:39:15 knock knock, who's there, etc 10:39:25 probably anybody can recompile it 10:39:37 if they use the right assembler ? 10:39:49 in what lang, anyway? 10:40:04 but is it really the full src? 10:40:41 hm 10:41:31 yes 10:41:32 i think so 10:41:58 in what lang has knock.txt been written? 10:42:41 MUF 10:43:31 Multi-User Forth, a Forth-like language that is used as an Online programming lang for TinyMUCK, which is a MUD (multi-user dimension) which is a multi-user text-based game :P 10:43:44 hey 10:43:49 if you look at kernel.asm for colorforth 10:44:06 yes? 10:44:17 it looks like the forth code (that is outside of the kernel) 10:44:24 is imbedded in the kernel.asm 10:44:30 using DDs 10:44:37 er 10:44:39 color.asm 10:45:18 muf must have a bit more clever parser if it can handle strings like that.. 10:45:36 well it was coded in c 10:45:45 suresure, but its a bit weired that the 10:45:47 it's not forth-like at all inside 10:45:53 color.asm: 10:45:55 dd ((((22o shl 4+3)shl 5+24o)shl 4+3)shl 4+1)shl 10 ; color 10:45:55 ; dd (((22o shl 5+24o)shl 4+7)shl 7+142o)shl 11 ; clip 10:45:55 dd (((((3 shl 5+22o)shl 4+2)shl 4+5)shl 4+6)shl 4+2)shl 7 ; octant 10:45:55 dd (20o shl 7+142o)shl 20 ; sp 10:45:55 dd (((24o shl 4+5)shl 5+20o)shl 4+2)shl 14 ; last 10:45:56 dd (((((146o shl 4+6)shl 7+142o)shl 4+5)shl 5+22o))shl 5 ; unpac k 10:45:58 ; dd (((142o shl 4+5)shl 5+22o)shl 7+164o)shl 9 ; pack 10:45:59 compiled com app is larger then the cources .... 10:46:00 that code 10:46:02 is probably forth code 10:46:17 yes it must b 4th 10:46:26 w "colors" included 10:46:36 why don't you compile the asm 10:46:37 and see for yourself 10:46:47 and report back to channel if it's the complete thing? :) 10:47:07 but what the hell is that "o" in [0-9]+o 10:47:31 where? 10:47:35 coz, im in linux 10:47:47 dd (20o shl 7+142o)s 10:47:50 nasm could probably handle it? 10:47:55 20o 142o 10:48:02 k, lets try it 10:48:23 if nasm can't, i suppose masm would / 10:48:37 color.asm:1428: comma or end of line expected 10:48:38 color.asm:1436: symbol `@@' redefined 10:48:41 color.asm:1439: parser: instruction expected 10:48:48 heh 10:48:54 do you have any other assemblers? 10:49:14 it must b a tasm src 10:49:22 .MODEL tiny 10:49:22 .486p 10:49:22 only SEGMENT USE32 10:49:22 ASSUME DS:only 10:49:26 or masm 10:49:38 or a86 10:49:53 these line r tasm specific 10:50:04 tom@ex:~/net/forth/colorforth> as86 color.asm 10:50:04 00003 00000000> .MODEL tiny 10:50:04 ***** opcode expected..................................^ 10:50:04 ***** illegal label....................................^ 10:50:04 00004 00000000> .486p 10:50:16 heh 10:50:41 a86 isn't avail for linux 10:50:46 as86 isn't a86 ?? 10:51:11 hmm 10:51:17 what is a86 then? 10:52:10 a dos assembler 10:52:23 i440r loves the disassembler that is available with a86 10:53:00 i have masm and tasm 10:53:01 i think 10:53:06 but i'm sleepy 10:53:13 perhaps i'll try compiling it later 10:53:19 maybe you could remind me to :P 10:53:41 probably i wont forget :) 10:53:48 ive dled chuck videos 10:54:04 ithink i ll watch them b4 going 2 bed 10:55:11 heh 10:55:12 cool 10:55:16 have fun :) 10:55:20 thx 10:55:37 i have a disabled friend 10:55:54 and this chuck-like key layout 10:59:31 started me thinking on a more usable input method 4 him 11:02:53 but its a bit hard 2 tell about these ideas. im 2 tired it now 11:16:37 --- quit: Fare (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:21:56 --- join: Fare (fare@bespin.org) joined #forth 12:23:25 wb, Fare. 12:26:28 |-) 12:27:30 rob_ert: tell us sg about the current state of yr prjs, how does yr 4th knowledge grows 12:27:32 ... 12:32:20 :) 12:35:21 hi fare 12:35:28 any news? 12:36:06 gakuk 12:41:13 csipcsiripp ;) 12:49:31 onetom: this is what I've been doing latley, http://ostling.no-ip.com:8080/ 12:57:55 rob_ert: is elvis still alive?!!?!? ;) 12:58:22 I'm not having a fat man here sitting coding things for me, onetom. 13:01:39 --- quit: Fare ("Connection reset by pear") 13:02:36 --- join: I440r (~mark4@11Cust51.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 13:04:32 Hey :) 13:04:49 hi :) 13:05:46 How do I set tab space to 4 in elvis? 13:08:51 er 13:08:54 use joe :P 13:09:03 vi and all its derivatives are evil 13:09:07 :) 13:09:28 Hehe 13:09:33 I used to think so. 13:09:41 But today I learned how to use them :P 13:09:51 except how to set tab spacing :) 13:09:52 heh 13:10:10 any editor that takes more than two keypresses to do ANY function isnt worth a damn 13:10:26 and those two keys INCLUDE any shifting or alting etc 13:10:34 so key or shift key or alt key 13:10:42 anything else is stupid 13:11:01 escape alt shift insert f10 backspace backspace . 13:11:05 now your in insert mode 13:11:21 escape shift x f3 f3 alt q f 13:11:24 now yor in insert mode 13:11:26 :P 13:11:27 bleh 13:11:32 pile of shit 13:11:36 Well, Minix doesn't have much better. 13:11:45 I use real editors on real systems :) 13:12:09 i like multi edit version 3.01 - this dates from abour 1980 13:12:13 also - qedit is nice 13:12:32 multi edit version 7.xx and up have gone the way most other editors have gone these days 13:12:34 featureitis 13:12:41 i.e. BLOAT 13:12:42 rob_ert: in vim it is :st 4 13:12:47 I use cooled in Linux console, Nedit in X, elvis or mined in Minix, MS-DOS edit in DOS/win :) 13:12:50 function bloat is to be avoided 13:12:58 onetom: OK, I'll try in elvis 13:13:27 or :ss ? 13:13:30 will chk 13:14:35 brb fone 13:15:07 niether of them, onetom 13:19:47 sec 13:20:03 :ts 13:20:09 like tab size 13:20:23 ive just noticed the typo 13:20:53 :set ts=4 13:20:58 2 b more exact 13:21:25 oh, OK 13:21:43 Thanks 13:22:20 Hmm 13:22:26 Wonder how I save that setting... 13:22:47 .virc? 13:23:00 * rob_ert chesks 13:23:04 checks* 13:23:05 or even .exrc 13:25:00 .exrc worx 4 me 13:25:33 Don't have that thing... gotta read the manual :) 13:25:43 sure u dont have 13:25:48 just create it 13:26:06 echo set ts=4 > ~/.exrc 13:27:03 Yeah, I did that. 13:27:05 Thanks :) 13:27:56 so does it work? 13:28:38 Yeah 13:28:45 * rob_ert higs onetom :) 13:28:47 er 13:28:49 hugs* 13:32:50 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13:34:03 * onetom also higs rob_ert ;) 13:34:34 :P 13:47:41 --- join: davidw (~davidw@ppp-24-7.25-151.libero.it) joined #forth 13:48:04 any way to do random numbers with gforth? 13:48:15 actually, what I'd like to do is select random words from the list of all words 13:48:21 hm, this MultiUserForth is also an interesting area... 13:48:46 davidw: for what reason? 13:49:17 davidw: anyway, u should find some rand*.fs in gforth lib 13:49:25 aho, here's one 13:49:30 davidw: say a locate rand 13:49:39 onetom: the reason? dorking around 13:50:10 davidw: ive just ask, coz u can do it outside of 4th too 13:51:17 davidw: like gforth -e 'words bye' | tr ' ' \\r (or what) 13:52:03 gforth -e 'words bye' | awk 'BEGIN{RS="[ \t\n]+"} 1' 14:05:43 oh... I made my loop work... right on 14:10:40 so...hrm 14:10:50 what's the best way to have a couple of variables going in a function? 14:17:02 he? 14:17:19 show me yr code 14:17:50 & also show me the answer 2 yr question in some other lang 14:18:27 while { $foo != $bar } { do_something } 14:19:08 I mean, I can do stuff with 'variable foo' and then manipulate that 14:19:11 but that seems dirty to me 14:19:35 but pushing/popping a whole bunch of stuff seems wonky, too 14:19:46 sure 14:19:57 probably u should use structures 14:19:58 OR 14:20:08 factor yr code more 14:20:18 (or better) 14:20:44 its probably an unforthish explanation of the problem 14:21:33 that requires passing lotsa data on the stack 14:22:00 yeah...hrm 14:22:10 do explain yr situation & i ll try 2 advice some 4th tips 14:22:28 (im not a 4th professionalist anyway) 14:22:36 ok... I want to go through 'words' and pick one at random 14:22:48 well, I've been using it for all of an hour or two;-) 14:22:59 so, I did 'see words' 14:23:03 and got the code to do that 14:23:05 so far so good 14:23:31 I managed to add code to count the number of words, but I did that with a variable 14:24:26 which seems bad, but doing it on the stack seems worse 14:25:04 have u used the return stack too? 14:25:18 did u 14:25:20 something is using it, yeah 14:25:29 although I don't understand that concept as well 14:25:31 more reading, I gues 14:25:36 paste the code, plz 14:25:57 what concept is not clear? 14:26:47 variable numwords 14:26:47 : myrandomword ( -- randomwordaddress ) 14:26:47 cr 0 context @ wordlist-id 14:26:47 BEGIN @ dup 14:26:47 WHILE 2dup name>string nip 2 + dup >r + cols >= 14:26:49 IF 14:26:51 cr nip 0 swap 14:26:55 THEN 14:26:57 dup name>string type space r> rot + swap 14:26:59 numwords @ 14:27:03 1+ 14:27:05 numwords ! 14:27:07 REPEAT 14:27:09 2drop 14:27:11 ; 14:27:13 oops..bad indenting 14:27:26 nevemind 14:28:10 well... 1st of all, u should throw the unneeded code away 14:28:27 and name the word according 2 its function 14:29:51 if i were u, i would dig down in gforth sources for the definition of words 14:30:08 hrm... ok, thanks 14:30:19 do an rgrep :\ words /usr/share/lib/gforth/0.5.0 14:30:37 probably the dup name>string type space r> rot + swap line is unneded 14:31:11 and yr word should b named numwords, iguess 15:21:34 --- quit: rob_ert ("Bye.") 15:37:38 im back 15:40:55 * futhin higs everyone 15:41:22 it's a backlog thing 15:41:35 howdy davidw 15:41:43 welcome to our humble channel :) 15:43:10 hi 15:44:43