00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.03.02
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06:11:14 <rob_ert> Hyvää päivää
06:13:25 <XeF4> päivää!
06:13:48 <rob_ert> Hur går det? :-)
06:14:43 <XeF4> hyvin, paitsi vähän flunssaa. entä sulle? =D
06:15:21 <rob_ert> Snacka svenska ;-)
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07:55:30 <XeF4> futh: was it you with the ^ definition quit message? 
08:02:06 <futhin> um
08:02:10 <futhin> i don't think so ?
08:07:49 <futhin> why do you ask?
08:08:07 <futhin> 16:25:37 --- quit: rob_ert (": ^ 1 swap 0 do over * loop swap drop ;")
08:08:07 <futhin> 16:28:39 <XeF4> 5 0 ^ \ oho
08:08:08 <XeF4> because it had a bug :)
08:08:12 <futhin> yeah
08:08:22 <futhin> rob_ert: your code has a bug, bwahahaha!
08:08:39 <futhin> bah
08:08:43 <futhin> maybe not
08:08:51 <futhin> eh?
08:10:04 <futhin> what does ^ do ?
08:10:27 <XeF4> ^ computes x^y power
08:11:45 <futhin> : * ." *" ;
08:12:24 <XeF4> your intent is obviously different there.
08:12:25 <futhin> i'm actually out of it
08:12:28 <futhin> just woke up
08:12:32 <futhin> and i actually thought
08:12:49 <futhin> that the ^ inside the : ^  was a word inside some definition
08:12:57 <futhin> i didn't think that ^ was the word being defined
08:12:58 <futhin> bah
08:13:15 <futhin> all my blankets were spread out all over the room
08:13:27 <futhin> i obviously did some mad thrashing last night heh
08:42:17 <rob_ert> What bug did my code have?
08:42:25 <rob_ert> I tested it ;-P
08:42:33 <rob_ert> It worked just fine.
08:42:44 <XeF4> did you test n^0 ?
08:43:07 <rob_ert> ?
08:43:12 <rob_ert> hm
08:43:15 <rob_ert> nej :-)
08:43:38 <rob_ert> shouldn't that result in 1?
08:44:01 <rob_ert> "do" still removes the top 2 elements of the data stack, right?
08:44:53 <XeF4> yes, but if both arguments are equal, it loops 2^cellsize-1 times
08:45:18 <XeF4> ?do loops only if arguments are not equal
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09:22:46 <Speuler> g'day
09:23:57 <rob_ert> Hi :-)
09:25:02 <Speuler> rob_ert: you wanted a nasm-assemblable vm, hilevel, primitive demo
09:25:07 <Speuler> ?
09:26:07 <rob_ert> Yeah, please :-)
09:26:25 <rob_ert> I think I've got most of it, from isforth.
09:26:52 <Speuler> got saft ?
09:27:48 <rob_ert> saft?
09:28:12 <Speuler> secure async file transfer
09:28:17 <Speuler> sendfile
09:28:27 <rob_ert> Nope.
09:28:33 <Speuler> email ?
09:28:39 <rob_ert> No.
09:29:00 <rob_ert> Hotmail doesn't count, I can't get the files from there.
09:29:28 <rob_ert> How many lines is it?
09:29:38 <rob_ert> Enough small for privmsg?
09:29:45 <Speuler> topaz.wox.org/forthvm.asm
09:29:52 <Speuler> ( http )
09:30:21 <rob_ert> Thanks :-D
09:30:29 <Speuler> np
10:30:00 <XeF4> would #forth be interested in a (emulated) f21 democompo?
10:38:46 <rob_ert> f21?
10:39:38 <XeF4>  http://www.ultratechnology.com/f21data.pdf
10:40:00 <XeF4>  http://www.ultratechnology.com/f21d.htm
10:40:11 <XeF4> MISC CPUs designed for Forth
10:40:20 <rob_ert> cool :-)
10:40:34 <rob_ert> But my forth isn't good enough.
10:40:43 <rob_ert> And I'm not too good at demo coding ;-P
10:40:50 <rob_ert> (my 0x20b demo sucked)
10:41:32 <rob_ert> Can someone tell me how to do bug number division using 32-bit DIVs?
10:41:50 <XeF4> bugs only multiply, never divide
10:42:08 * rob_ert stamps on a bug.
10:46:17 <XeF4> so write in f21 ASM (which corresponds 1:1 with Forth primitives)
10:47:42 <rob_ert> Stack magic isn't one of my strengths.
11:24:39 <futhin> rob_ert: want me to say all the stack rules again? :D
11:25:25 <futhin> xef4: it is interesting.  you should also post on comp.lang.forth
11:25:28 <futhin> i'm interested
11:25:49 <rob_ert> futhin: lol :-)
11:25:59 <rob_ert> futhin: I got this nice code from Speuler
11:26:08 <XeF4> everyone on comp.lang.forth has surely heard of F21 and I don't yet have anything (like an invtro) working
11:29:06 <Speuler> i tried twice to order an F21, no success. i've given up on F21 then
11:29:25 <Speuler> got me a psc1000 instead
11:29:47 <Speuler> (shBoom II)
11:30:09 <XeF4> I didn't know real shBooms were available. where?
11:30:30 <Speuler> patriot scientific psc1000 is the shBoom core
11:30:44 <futhin> rob_ert: here are the stack rules (from the wisdom of the high priest chuck moore):  A Forth word should not have more than one or two arguments. This stack which
11:30:44 <futhin> people have so much trouble manipulating should never be more than three or
11:30:44 <futhin> four deep.
11:30:44 <futhin> But as to stack parameters, the stacks should be shallow. On the i21 we have
11:30:44 <futhin> an on-chip stack 18 deep. This size was chosen as a number effectively
11:30:46 <futhin> infinite
11:30:48 <futhin> eww
11:30:50 <futhin> sorry
11:30:59 <futhin> bad paste :(
11:31:18 * rob_ert notes that made no sense.
11:31:37 <futhin> hm?
11:31:39 <XeF4> Speuler: are they available in starter kits serial i/o and such?  How expensive?
11:32:15 <Speuler> i got me an prototyping board, designed+assembled not far from here.
11:32:42 <Speuler> paid 'bout 200$ for whole thing
11:32:48 <futhin> rob_ert:  A forth word should not have more than one or two arguments.  This stack which people have so much troulbe manipulating should never be more than three or four deep.  (you shouldn't need to put that many stuff on the stack)
11:32:53 <Speuler> 2 flash sockets
11:32:59 <Speuler> 2 mb ram
11:33:08 <Speuler> serial i/o
11:33:32 <Speuler> cpu module + ram + flash on extra print, socketed
11:33:49 <futhin> XeF4: of course everyone on comp.lang.forth has heard of F21.  i'm talking about a democompo contest!
11:33:50 <Speuler> comes with forth
11:34:07 <rob_ert> Speuler: Cool
11:34:08 <Speuler> but F83, not ANS
11:34:17 <rob_ert> Speuler: What processor?
11:34:35 <Speuler> smaller model has only one flash socket, and comes for about 120 $
11:34:39 <Speuler> less ram
11:34:46 <Speuler> not 32bit, but 8bit ram interface
11:34:59 <Speuler> rob_ert: psc1000
11:35:14 <rob_ert> mm... cool
11:35:18 <Speuler> clocket 40mhz ext, 80mhz internal
11:35:20 <Speuler> clocked
11:35:22 <futhin> speuler: who sells psc1000 ?
11:35:22 <rob_ert> wow
11:35:38 <Speuler> patriot scientific
11:36:02 <Speuler> cpu is sold as "java cpu"
11:36:08 <futhin> hm, sounds kinda expensive..  but it'd be fun to have a forth calculator (like the hp48 series)  and code stuff on it
11:36:36 <futhin> for $100 bucks
11:36:52 <XeF4> Speuler: nice, but not nice enough to allow a total escape from x86
11:37:35 <XeF4> rob: *nod*, I'll see if I can make an invtro first, and if successful, post that to clf. *crosses fingers*
11:37:39 <Speuler> http://industry.java.sun.com/javanews/stories/story2/0,1072,11714,00.html
11:37:57 <XeF4> er. s/rob/futhin/
11:38:00 <rob_ert> XeF4: I think you talked to the wrong guy
11:38:01 <rob_ert> hee
11:38:03 <rob_ert> hehe*
11:38:03 <rob_ert> :)
11:38:04 <Speuler> XeF4: not meant as escape.  psc1000 probably won't go into desktop computers
11:38:56 <Speuler> has been used for the "webbook"
11:39:41 <Speuler> Patriot Scientific's Financing Goes Effective; Funds Will ... - [ Diese Seite (B?(Bbersetzen ]
11:39:41 <Speuler>  ... Founded in 1987, Patriot Scientific Corp. designs, markets and manufactures the PSC1000,
11:39:41 <Speuler>  based on patented ShBoom technology, a 32-bit microprocessor targeted ... 
11:39:41 <Speuler>  
11:40:20 <Speuler> http://www.bmrc.co.uk/scribble/shboom.htm
11:40:40 <futhin> lol, patriot scientific is traded on OTC:BB (as a general rule, companies traded via OTC:BB are shady & don't release as many (if at all) of financial statement documents)
11:41:45 <futhin> <-- daytrader
11:41:50 <Speuler> i'm afraid they deliver to manufacturers of military equipment.
11:42:13 <futhin> xef4: what's an invtro ? why is it necessary..
11:42:30 <futhin> so?
11:42:42 <Speuler>  Japanese Patriots Go ShBoom 
11:42:46 <futhin> i'm not some person who only invests in "ethical" companies :P
11:43:07 <Speuler> has licensed the design to Japan's Venture SystemLSI Assist Center. VSAC is a government-funded body formed to assist Japanese technology startups. In return for a one-time licensing fee to Patriot, VSAC can distribute the PSC1000A core to its members
11:43:45 <futhin> but i only track nasdaq stock that are more than $10 a share, with at least 2 million daily volume, and huge volatility (go up and down at least 5% a day)
11:44:25 <Speuler> http://softwaredev.earthweb.com/java/article/0,,12082_610041,00.html
11:44:40 <Speuler> http://www.newsre.com/sec_mgmt.asp?ticker=PTSC&action=sec_mgmt
11:44:46 <XeF4> futhin: an invitation intro to show that demos can practically be written for the f21
11:45:16 <Speuler> 1999: deficit of 2 million $
11:45:47 <futhin> xef4: so how big do you think the demos should be?  1k  or less?
11:45:57 <futhin> 512 bytes maybe :D
11:46:03 <futhin> um
11:46:04 <futhin> naw
11:46:05 <futhin> 1k 
11:46:05 <Speuler> The Company's shares may experience significant price and volume volatility, increasing the risk of ownership to investors. 
11:46:10 <XeF4> 8 kwords?
11:46:44 <futhin> speuler: only if the stock is on nasdaq would i touch it at all
11:47:28 <futhin> xef4: eh?
11:48:10 <XeF4> futhin: f21 memory is addressed as 20-bit words
11:50:40 <futhin> so?
11:50:50 <futhin> 1k of words..
11:51:05 <futhin> chuck moore coded a GUI in 1k
11:51:33 <rob_ert> Heh :)
11:51:37 <XeF4> I read that claim by Jeff Fox, but I've not seen the GUI anywhere
11:51:45 <futhin> we should get chuck moore to join in the democompo :D
11:52:32 <futhin> xef4: the gui was coded for that other company, the one that was going to make stuff for small internet appliances and embbedded stuf..
11:52:38 <XeF4> better yet, we could get him to sponsor an f21 prototype board to the winner
11:52:39 * rob_ert calls futhin's support group for lazy people.
11:53:04 <futhin> rob_ert: are you lazy?
11:53:09 <rob_ert> XeF4: Ask him to buy one for everyone that joins the contest.
11:53:16 <futhin> lol
11:53:26 <rob_ert> futhin: I don't have energy enough to answer.
11:54:21 <futhin> i want to create an online multiuser collaborative forth universe.. so that forth coders get on to hang out, chat, and code.  (and you can watch other people coding, code with them, etc)  all this would help motivate everyone to code
11:54:42 <rob_ert> :-)
11:54:58 <rob_ert> Where every word ever coded is stored in a gigant data base ;)
11:55:06 <rob_ert> (name conflicts...hehehe)
11:55:12 <futhin> no, the code would run on their own computers
11:55:36 <rob_ert> Then go on and code :-
11:55:38 <rob_ert> .-)
11:55:45 <futhin> there wouldn't be name conflicts
11:55:57 <futhin> anyways, because there'd be sep vocabularies for each person, etc
11:56:20 <rob_ert> hmm....
11:56:30 <rob_ert> 0 7 futhin.do-leet-funtion
11:56:35 <rob_ert> nice idea :-)
11:56:37 <futhin> i was going to code a forth mud..  it would take like 5 hours to adapt the mud to the collaborative environment :D
11:57:03 <futhin> rob_ert: are you proving to me that you haven't heard of the VOCABULARY  word? :D
11:57:25 <rob_ert> Yes.
11:57:44 <rob_ert> Do a first-person-shooter game, where you have to code forth to get through locked doors.
11:57:51 <futhin> heheh
11:58:21 <futhin> kind of like a typing game, where you have to type faster in order to row faster and wup the other guy's ass!
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11:59:05 <futhin> hihi dagslad
11:59:10 <futhin> hihi dagsylad
11:59:11 <Dagsylad> hi  =)
11:59:45 <rob_ert> Hi
11:59:49 <futhin> do you code in forth? :)
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12:02:30 <futhin> oh no! :(
12:03:21 <rob_ert> The evil forth came and got him.
12:03:28 <rob_ert> Rest in peace, brother.
12:09:33 --- nick: Speuler -> PhoodPhrenzy
12:09:59 <futhin> hm, i kind of think i should get somebody to help me code the mud, so that i do it faster 
12:10:06 <futhin> and stop being so lazy about it
12:11:50 <rob_ert> Coding mud... quite a nice idea :) /me imagines how hard it would be to make an assembly one :/
12:13:31 <futhin> heh
12:13:46 <futhin> pretend forth is a high level assembler and you won't feel so bad
12:14:27 <rob_ert> I can't pretend that...
12:14:38 <rob_ert> I miss my registers! *cries out loud*
12:14:51 <rob_ert> The stack isn't enough to keep me ocmpany.
12:14:55 <rob_ert> company even
12:24:34 <futhin> um
12:24:39 <futhin> code assembly inside forth
12:24:51 <futhin> forth makes me think of a macro assembler
12:25:01 <futhin> each word just plugs in 4 or 5 lines of asm code
12:25:25 <futhin> the words that are coded in asm that is
12:25:31 <rob_ert> I like gotos and bad structure! Give me asm or BASIC.
12:27:34 <futhin> forth is fun
12:28:07 <rob_ert> :-)
12:28:21 <rob_ert> I see it as a challenge.
12:28:39 <rob_ert> Right now, I think it's totally impossible to code in forth. I'm trying to prove myself wrong.
12:30:00 <futhin> i don't know about you, but i find that forth is way easier, faster, and more efficient to code in than something like C.  and a hell of a lot more fun
12:30:38 <futhin> rob_ert: just keep it simple.  factor it up.  a word shouldn't be more than 1 or 2 lines of code.  keep each word simple, and it'll all be easier to understand and also very easy to debug
12:30:54 <rob_ert> :-)
12:30:58 <rob_ert> anyway, I'll bbl
12:31:08 <futhin> ok
12:39:47 --- nick: PhoodPhrenzy -> CaffeineJunkie
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12:58:41 <Etaoin> hi, #forth
12:59:51 <futhin> howdy
13:11:53 --- quit: futhin ("gonna go and actually do stuff. ph33r the l33tness!")
13:16:33 <Etaoin> what's happening?
13:17:15 <rob_ert> Nothing.
13:17:21 <rob_ert> As you maybe already have guessed.
13:17:53 <Etaoin> yeah.
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13:36:17 <Etaoin> hi again
13:38:20 <XeF4> hello again
13:40:34 <Etaoin> hehe "free throw free throw !" is valid forth code :)
13:58:38 --- nick: CaffeineJunkie -> Speuler
14:03:48 <Speuler> Etaoin: hmm ... nope
14:04:08 <Speuler> "free" (gforth) doesn't leave you a stack par on its own
14:04:20 <Speuler> you'd call it with a parameter
14:05:02 <Speuler> like:   1000 allocate   ( ... )  free ( .. ) 
14:05:12 <Etaoin> Speuler: well yeah.
14:05:20 <Speuler> sorry ...
14:05:36 <Speuler> 1000 allocate    .   ( success flag )     free  
14:05:55 <Etaoin> the stack effect isn't ( -- ), but it's funny that it's something somone would yell, but yet it's perfectly normal to write for a program
14:06:37 <Speuler> Etaoin: a forth interpreter doesn't restrict you a lot with what you're doing
14:07:01 <Speuler> t'is basically your own responsablity to write meaningful code
14:07:33 <Etaoin> yay
14:07:49 <Etaoin> responsibility is okay.
14:08:00 <Speuler> agree
14:10:35 <Speuler> often, programmer knows his intentions better than compiler
14:12:02 <rob_ert> but more often, the programmer is an idiot that needs to be taken care of (that's how some people think :-)
14:12:54 <Speuler> talking visual basic ?
14:13:29 <Speuler> pascal ?
14:14:12 <Speuler> know "a layman's guide to programming languages" ?
14:14:22 <Etaoin> what if the programmer is smart and wants to be taken care of?
14:14:25 <Speuler> task: shoot yourself in the foot
14:14:44 <Speuler> pascal: the compiler doesn't allow you to shoot in your foot
14:14:51 <Speuler> forth: foot in yourself shoot
14:15:43 <Speuler> fortran: you shoot yourself in your first toe, reload, shoot second toe. if you run out of
14:16:09 <Speuler> bullets , you continue to shoot anyway because you havent got an exceptio handling mechanisdm
14:16:41 <Speuler> dbase: you can't - you have to use clipper instead
14:17:20 <Speuler> assembler: you try to shoot yourself in the foot, only to discover that you have to invent
14:17:31 <Speuler> the gun, the bullet, the trigger and your foot first
14:17:35 <rob_ert> :-)
14:17:38 <rob_ert> I know those'
14:17:41 <Speuler> ok
14:17:50 * rob_ert likes the assembler one most ;-)
14:18:03 <rob_ert> I almost laughes out of my chair first time I heard it
14:18:06 <rob_ert> laughed*
14:24:52 <Speuler> http://www.m5p.com/~pravn/foot.html
14:25:41 <Speuler> concurrent euclid i like
14:26:02 <Speuler>  You shoot yourself in somebody else's foot. 
14:26:28 <Speuler> oh
14:26:32 <Speuler> there are new ones ...
14:26:41 <Speuler>  Microsoft 
14:26:41 <Speuler>  Object "Foot" will be included in the next release. You can upgrade for $500. 
14:27:06 <rob_ert> :-)
14:27:37 <Speuler> java is new too
14:42:05 <Speuler> have to reboot ...
14:42:22 <rob_ert> oki
14:42:30 <Speuler> ...
14:42:34 <Speuler> still alive ...
14:42:39 <Speuler> ...
14:42:43 <Speuler> ...
14:42:48 <rob_ert> Weee :-)
14:42:53 <rob_ert> Our Speuler is still alive.
14:43:58 <Speuler> amazing
14:44:03 <Speuler> alive again ...
14:44:15 <Speuler> this reboot i liked a lot
14:44:34 <Speuler> first time it worked well
14:44:37 <rob_ert> What system do you run? .-)
14:44:40 <Speuler> (booting from disk)
14:45:04 <Speuler> couldn't get root mouted when booting from hd
14:45:06 * rob_ert doubt Win95 with mIRC would enjoy being rebooted while connected.
14:45:08 <Speuler> only from floppy ...
14:45:38 <Speuler> i'm on a diskless client, and rebooted the dhcp server
14:45:47 <Speuler> i.e. the machine with the dhcp server
14:46:14 <rob_ert> OK :-)
14:46:15 <Speuler> what made it somewhat problematic was that there's an i2o disc controller in there
14:46:33 <Speuler> but it boots fully from raid controller now
14:46:34 <rob_ert> i2o?
14:46:42 <Speuler> yes
14:47:09 <rob_ert> And that is..?
14:47:17 <Speuler> "intelligent i/o"
14:47:26 <Speuler> drivers split into two portions
14:47:49 <Speuler> those two parts talk to each other in the middle
14:48:04 <Speuler> so the os level driver doesn't need to know the io device
14:48:14 <Speuler> as long it supplies the other part of the driver
14:48:27 <Speuler> adaptec 2100 raid controller
14:48:52 * rob_ert thinks that sounds too expensive for him.
14:49:07 <Speuler> t'is not really cheap, indeed
14:49:40 <Speuler> 4x u160 scsi drives on it
14:49:58 <rob_ert> hehe
14:50:07 <Speuler> server stuff
14:50:28 <Speuler> has to serve 'bout 50 diskless machines
14:50:48 <Speuler> 128 mb cache on controller
14:50:50 <rob_ert> What do the diskless ones have?
14:51:05 <Speuler> motherboard with video controller and nic on board
14:51:13 <Speuler> and power supply
14:51:39 <Speuler> not a single card plugged in
14:52:23 <rob_ert> cool... what kind of CPUs? x86?
14:52:32 <Speuler> server: athlon xp1600
14:52:40 <Speuler> clients: celeron 800
14:53:04 <Speuler> just standard asus motherboard in clients
14:53:06 <rob_ert> What do the clients do?
14:53:16 <rob_ert> I mean, that's the whole net for?
14:53:24 <Speuler> internet cafe
14:53:48 <Speuler> all linux
14:53:51 <rob_ert> So, only web browser and such should run on the clients?
14:53:56 <Speuler> nope
14:54:01 <rob_ert> What else?
14:54:02 <Speuler> i'll give access to shell too
14:54:08 <Speuler> just about everything
14:54:33 <Speuler> boots linux over the net
14:54:42 <Speuler> ans mounts root on server
14:54:59 <rob_ert> What does it boot from? ROM?
14:55:15 <Speuler> boot rom loads linux kernel from dhcp server
14:55:24 <Speuler> linux kernel mounts root via nfs
14:55:37 <rob_ert> Okay
14:55:42 <rob_ert> Sounds nice :-)
14:55:49 <rob_ert> Is it fast?
14:55:49 <Speuler> yes
14:55:54 <rob_ert> I mean, booting process and so
14:56:00 <rob_ert> And using the software.
14:56:02 <Speuler> right now, not really. must upgrade the hubs too
14:56:07 <Speuler> those are 10 mb right now ...
14:56:38 <Speuler> will probably stuff a multi-nic card or two into the server
14:56:43 * rob_ert has a 10Mbit net :-)
14:57:19 <Speuler> nice thing is, you can power-off the clients without shutting down
14:57:46 <Speuler> and, as you've seen, they even survive a server reboot
14:58:09 <rob_ert> Hehe, that's quite cool.
14:58:19 <Speuler> not that this is going to happen often i hope ...
14:58:32 <Speuler> will put a backup server on too
14:58:50 <Speuler> which jumps into place should first server ever go down
14:59:30 <Speuler> icafe is modernising 
14:59:36 <Speuler> all stuff goes out
14:59:46 <Speuler> replacing all of it
15:00:01 <rob_ert> What do you do with the old stuff?
15:00:05 <Speuler> (there are still some 486s around)
15:00:08 <rob_ert> Take home? :P
15:00:09 <rob_ert> hehe
15:00:11 <Speuler> donate to 3rd world
15:00:17 <rob_ert> Diskless ones?
15:00:27 <Speuler> nope. old stuff is with hard disks
15:00:43 <Speuler> 32 mb and 64 mb machines ...
15:01:06 <rob_ert> Ah, OK.
15:01:20 <Speuler> very few reasonable machines
15:01:29 <Speuler> some 500 mhz k6
15:02:16 <Speuler> and all crts will be replaced against tfts
15:02:23 <rob_ert> A lot better than my computers :P
15:02:46 <Speuler> there are i think 3 of those 500 mhz ,,,
15:06:28 <Speuler> www.icafe.spacenet.de
15:06:42 <Speuler> "Livebild aus dem Internet-Caf(B?(B am Altheimer Eck"
15:06:51 <Speuler> you see me sitting there
15:06:51 <rob_ert> ok
15:06:56 <rob_ert> I'll check =)
15:07:17 <Speuler> sort'f blurred image
15:07:28 <rob_ert> Hehe
15:07:28 <rob_ert> Yah
15:07:34 <rob_ert> I can't see anything
15:08:20 <Speuler> "nymphenburger str" is dead. the other "altheimer eck" is the working cam
15:09:12 <Speuler> "impressiobs" shows some photos
15:09:14 <Speuler> ions
15:09:21 <rob_ert> Where?
15:09:25 <Speuler> those are not updated periodically
15:09:56 <Speuler> the right columns
15:11:40 * rob_ert checks
15:12:18 <rob_ert> "impressions"?
15:12:24 <Speuler> photos
15:12:30 <Speuler> below there is:
15:12:34 <Speuler> "Livebild aus dem Internet-Caf(B?(B am Altheimer Eck"
15:12:39 <Speuler> that's the webcam
15:13:05 <rob_ert> ah, I see it now
15:14:02 <Etaoin> I like the lisp shoot-yourself-in-the-foot
15:14:22 <Speuler> that figure in the image is me
15:15:12 <Speuler> above that circular logo on the wall
15:38:28 <Etaoin> I suppose there's no concept of a null pointer in forth.
15:38:54 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:00:03 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-202-154.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth
16:00:05 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard
16:00:10 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
16:02:30 <rob_ert> Hi :-)
16:03:30 <TheBlueWizard> hiya rob_ert
16:04:28 <TheBlueWizard> seems you're big on assembly stuff (from examing your /whois)
16:06:47 <rob_ert> Now I don't follow you.. :)
16:06:57 <rob_ert> Explain
16:07:06 <rob_ert> Ah
16:07:07 <rob_ert> lol
16:07:08 <rob_ert> :-)
16:07:13 <rob_ert> Yeah
16:07:21 <rob_ert> I kind of like assembly language
16:07:31 * rob_ert has 3 windows with asm souce open atm
16:07:55 <TheBlueWizard> :)
16:08:28 <rob_ert> Don't you love it, too?=
16:08:39 <TheBlueWizard> I also enjoy coding in assembly language, though it has been some time since I last dabbled in it (about a year ago or so, maybe)...been busy
16:10:13 * TheBlueWizard knows 6502, 680x0, x86, some z80, some 6809, read up on PowerPC, Alpha, hmm...and am pretty sure there are a few others as well...
16:19:14 --- join: onetom (tom@adsl52189.vnet.hu) joined #forth
16:19:29 --- part: onetom left #forth
16:22:18 --- join: mican0 (~cerberus@clgr000977.hs.telusplanet.net) joined #forth
16:22:39 <mican0> howdy folks
16:22:54 <Etaoin> hi
16:23:02 <TheBlueWizard> hiya mican0
16:23:03 <mican0> heya etaoin
16:23:04 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Etaoin
16:23:08 <mican0> bluewiz
16:23:21 <rob_ert> TheBlueWizard: Haven't done much else than x86
16:23:21 <rob_ert> read a bit about 6502 in my c128 manual
16:23:21 <rob_ert> but that's it
16:23:35 <mican0> (i'm trying out irc access from gaim)
16:24:04 <mican0> heya rob_ert, qless here
16:24:18 <rob_ert> Hi :-)
16:24:25 <rob_ert> --- Ping reply from rob_ert : 158.36 second(s)
16:24:27 <rob_ert> lg :/
16:24:29 <rob_ert> lag*
16:25:32 <Etaoin> all I've done is at-robots
16:25:38 --- join: aum (~david@210.55.76.131) joined #forth
16:26:31 <Etaoin> well, I suppose you could say I've done some .86, but I don't remember a thing about it.
16:26:38 <Etaoin> make that x86
16:29:16 <TheBlueWizard> sounds like I got more experience with assembly ... no bragging intended
16:29:50 <rob_ert> TheBlueWizard: You're older than 15, I suppose? :-)
16:30:08 * TheBlueWizard knows 6502 by heart...even knows a few opcodes...used to half hand assemble 6502 on Apple ][ :)
16:30:27 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...waaay older than 15 :)   (37, actually)
16:30:31 <rob_ert> Hehe
16:30:40 <rob_ert> That seems to be the average age in here :P
16:30:52 <rob_ert> #forth = retirement home :-D
16:31:16 <TheBlueWizard> lol...the young'uns are missing a lot of fun ;)
16:31:29 <Etaoin> hey, I'm having my fun
16:32:43 --- join: onetom (tom@adsl52189.vnet.hu) joined #forth
16:32:49 <onetom> hi
16:32:56 <onetom> anybody else in here?
16:33:08 <Etaoin> yes.
16:33:12 <TheBlueWizard> I am just kidding )mostly)...but yeah, there is a lot more fun stuff happening than before, provided you know where to find them
16:33:19 <TheBlueWizard> hiya onetom
16:33:21 <onetom> "feel the way i do" :)
16:33:39 <onetom> cool.
16:33:57 <rob_ert> Hi onetom.
16:34:21 * onetom new to utilizing irc in programming, so i beg yr pardon in advance 4 any mistakes
16:34:29 <onetom> hi everybody
16:34:36 <rob_ert> Hehe
16:34:46 <rob_ert> First time on IRC? :-)
16:34:48 <Etaoin> first of all, don't abbreviate with numbers. it makes you look stupid.
16:34:51 <onetom> i hope ive found a proper channel for me
16:35:04 <onetom> nooo, not the very first time
16:35:32 <onetom> im on a local, city channel 4 ~3months
16:35:38 <rob_ert> Hehe.
16:35:43 <rob_ert> That destroys your brain.
16:36:01 <rob_ert> kidz that r talking like this... r u getting me#$!?
16:36:01 <Etaoin> so does assembly
16:36:03 <rob_ert> ;-)
16:36:06 <rob_ert> Etaoin: No :-)
16:36:07 <onetom> and ive also used irc to manage a project through it just right the last 3 weeks
16:36:22 <rob_ert> :)
16:37:05 <onetom> as u c me brain z already destroyed just enough, isn it.
16:37:40 <onetom> b4 ive chatted a way too much through icq, yahoo & the like
16:37:42 <rob_ert> onetom: I guess so :-)
16:37:53 <rob_ert> onetom: Are you over 40?
16:38:17 <onetom> i chatted w my 2 loverz through icq for month every day
16:38:37 <onetom> though all 3 of us live in the same small city :)
16:38:59 <onetom> 40???!!?
16:39:09 <TheBlueWizard> loverz == illicit lovers?
16:39:11 <onetom> why did u think so?
16:39:19 <rob_ert> onetom: You're in #forth...
16:39:31 <onetom> no
16:39:41 <Etaoin> rob_ert: I'm not over 40.
16:39:42 <onetom> they knew eachothers
16:39:59 <onetom> rob_ert: neither me! faaaar from it
16:40:27 <rob_ert> onetom: 39? :-)
16:40:29 <onetom> "i was only seventeen, when i fell in love w ......" - uriah heep :)
16:40:38 <Etaoin> let's discuss forth with like-minded individuals.
16:40:45 <onetom> actually, i dont know how old am i
16:40:53 <onetom> i always calculate it
16:40:53 <rob_ert> onetom: Ah, OK.
16:41:03 <onetom> 2002 1977 - .
16:41:29 <rob_ert> Hm..
16:41:35 <rob_ert> Not THAT far fom 40 :P
16:41:51 <rob_ert> If the forth is fucked up enough, that might as well print out 45
16:41:55 <onetom> :))) u .... its raaaather far from it!
16:42:19 <onetom> im just on the half of the way toward
16:42:31 <onetom> :)))
16:42:38 <rob_ert> You was 5 years ago :-)
16:42:41 <rob_ert> were*
16:42:45 <rob_ert> Me englisch grr..
16:42:47 <rob_ert> ;P
16:42:49 <Etaoin> you're over halfway to halfway
16:43:13 <onetom> nooo, dont firighten me!
16:43:22 <onetom> lemme check
16:43:46 <onetom> ugh, right
16:43:58 <Etaoin> you're a fourth to halfway to halfway, actually
16:44:00 <onetom> we r talkin bout 40, not 50...
16:44:06 <onetom> :))
16:44:11 <rob_ert> 50 = almost dead :P
16:44:18 <rob_ert> 40 = retirement...
16:44:27 <rob_ert> 30 = old man with grey beard
16:44:29 <onetom> "but know, something completely different" - m.p.
16:44:33 <rob_ert> 20 = getting old an tired
16:44:37 <rob_ert> 10 = adult
16:44:46 <onetom> :))))))
16:44:57 <onetom> nice scale
16:45:08 <onetom> sooo:
16:45:17 <mican0> when do i get my viagra, rob_ert?
16:45:24 <mican0> :-)
16:45:24 <onetom> may i start askin more serious questions?
16:45:33 <onetom> do u have some time for me?
16:45:40 <Etaoin> onetom: you don't have to ask to ask a question
16:45:47 <rob_ert> mican0: Hm? Were you here at that discussion?
16:45:59 <mican0> no i think i missed it
16:45:59 <rob_ert> "ask, don't ask to ask."
16:46:21 <rob_ert> mican0: Hmm.. OK. It was about private medicare, and medicine companies.
16:46:22 <onetom> ok, infact its a well known policy. it must b in the netiquette
16:46:30 <rob_ert> With a fanatic capitalist :-)
16:46:48 <mican0> hilarious
16:46:59 <onetom> im lookin for info on multitasking/multiuser forthz
16:47:12 <rob_ert> He told me the medicine insdustry does its best to help people.
16:47:16 <rob_ert> I laughed my ass off.
16:47:16 <onetom> but i need an opensource 1
16:47:30 <rob_ert> onetom: Please ;)
16:47:42 <rob_ert> onetom: My lamer-talk was just a joke
16:47:53 <rob_ert> You may now speak real english.
16:48:34 <onetom> sorry robert, but im afraid, i can speak regular langs
16:48:49 <mican0> gotta book, dudes.  see ya later
16:48:51 --- part: mican0 left #forth
16:49:31 <onetom> its sad, but i can even write in my native language in a non-irc way :(
16:49:55 <onetom> coz i speak irc w my lover and w many of my friends
16:49:57 <TheBlueWizard> what's your native language?
16:50:02 <onetom> hungarian
16:50:24 <onetom> or,   forth? ... dunno ;)
16:50:42 <Etaoin> what do you use forth for?
16:50:49 <onetom> in fact, im a lammer forth programmer
16:51:19 <onetom> i use it 4 writing code 4 pic microcontrollers
16:51:44 <onetom> im working on a house automation project w my father
16:51:45 <TheBlueWizard> ah...cool...I briefly tried to find Hungarian grammar on the Net, without finding any decent ones...oh well!  I know Hungarian is a non Indo European language, being in the same large family with Finnish, Estonian, Turkish, ...
16:52:18 <XeF4> Turkish?!
16:52:32 <onetom> turkish? not sure ov it
16:53:27 <rob_ert> onetom: What kind of PICs?
16:53:55 <onetom> but isnt hungarian is a indoeuropean? hmm.... strange... i thought finn-ugor is a subset of it... nevemind
16:54:06 <onetom> 14bit core 1z
16:54:27 <onetom> TheBlueWizard: me date is a linguist, anyway ;)
16:55:12 <onetom> but my project requires a pc side code too
16:55:15 <rob_ert> onetom: "1z"?
16:55:20 <onetom> onez
16:55:23 <rob_ert> heh
16:55:25 <onetom> ones - shit :)
16:55:29 <XeF4> one: Finno-Ugric is no IE branch
16:55:31 <rob_ert> 16x84 family?
16:55:46 <onetom> like that, eg.
16:55:57 * Etaoin is starting to think he doesn't belong here
16:56:02 * TheBlueWizard is checking on Turkish....
16:56:13 <onetom> but a bit larger 1z, w async interface, AD ...
16:56:29 <rob_ert> cool
16:56:33 <onetom> Etaoin: why do u think so?
16:56:58 <onetom> but still using that silly codebank structure
16:57:10 <TheBlueWizard> Finno-Ugric group is completely separate from IE group, though some speculate that they may share some common root in *distant* past...more research hehe
16:57:15 <onetom> it is my largest pain about them
16:57:33 * TheBlueWizard dabbles in constructed languages as a hobby, that's why! ;)
16:57:38 <onetom> im trying to write some native code compiler for it
16:57:50 <Etaoin> because you talk about stuff
16:58:01 <onetom> because all the available 1z r
16:58:21 <onetom> buggy or incomplete or too expensive for me
16:58:31 <Etaoin> dabble dabble dabble dabble
16:58:47 <onetom> Etaoin: ugh, what else should i talk about ;)
16:59:05 <onetom> dabble? what does it mean?
16:59:14 <onetom> blah blah?
16:59:18 <Etaoin> onetom: I don't mind. I just don't have a very good grasp of what you are talking about
16:59:25 <TheBlueWizard> ah...my small mistake...Turkish belongs to Uralo-Altaic branch
16:59:30 <onetom> oic
16:59:45 <onetom> TheBlueWizard: sounds much better :)
16:59:53 <Etaoin> and I haven't used assembly.
17:00:14 <TheBlueWizard> but Hungarian, Estonian, and Finnish are Finno-Ugric....
17:00:50 <onetom> so this is my first problem domain: a native, optimizing, codebank handling forth compiler for <16bit core picz
17:01:06 <TheBlueWizard> but Turkish and Finnish/etc. do look a bit similar...they use vovel harmony, uses a lot of suffixes, etc...
17:01:08 <onetom> TheBlueWizard: thats right, i knew the same
17:01:14 <TheBlueWizard> vowel even
17:01:26 <onetom> agglutinating langz all, yeah
17:02:10 <TheBlueWizard> hehe....but they are nothing compared to Navajo...it blows me off the Earth! :)
17:02:57 <onetom> my second "research domain" is forth on PC under *nix (actually, just debian linux currently)
17:03:09 <Etaoin> it did the same to the Japanese during WWII
17:03:17 <XeF4> are you searching for a FU grammar in general, or Hungarian specifically?
17:03:32 <TheBlueWizard> dabble means to play with a bit
17:03:39 <onetom> id like yall to help me finding proper forums for my questions in these areas
17:03:41 <onetom> any idea?
17:04:11 * TheBlueWizard isn't familiar with PIC programming
17:04:20 * rob_ert is :D
17:04:22 <rob_ert> a bit :P
17:04:27 <onetom> hey, everybody is a little linguist here? :))
17:04:36 <TheBlueWizard> though #forth is indeed the proper forun for discussing Forth related stuff
17:04:41 <TheBlueWizard> lol
17:05:26 <onetom> TheBlueWizard must b familiar w pix, but rather could b familiar w forth meta compiler writing ;)
17:05:53 <onetom> when is this channel really active?
17:05:55 <XeF4> http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~arubin/hungarian.html
17:06:11 <XeF4> one: right now
17:06:13 <onetom> what r the rush hourz here?
17:06:54 <TheBlueWizard> Etaoin: yeah...pity the Japanese...I read in some literature that after WW II, the codebreakers admitted they don't have much more than the phonetics...and I can see why :)
17:07:33 <TheBlueWizard> uh...I am not really familiar with metacompiling, though someday I'd like to tackle that :P
17:08:20 <onetom> than, in what environment do u use forth?
17:08:31 <onetom> and what for?
17:10:19 <XeF4> The: have you a link to a Navajo grammar somewhere?
17:10:29 <TheBlueWizard> oh, I have a few projects (all of them on back burners) involving Forth:  my own little OS that uses Forth as a sort of monitor (a la Apple ][, Open Firmware), forth "gui" thingey (rather hard to explain), and somesuch
17:11:12 <onetom> thats great
17:11:25 <onetom> but what is a back burner?
17:11:28 <TheBlueWizard> XeF4: I also searched for Navajo grammar...as far as I can tell, there is no such webpage on it at all, though I had found some rather lame Navajo wordlist and such
17:11:41 <onetom> solarium? ;)
17:11:50 <Etaoin> TheBlueWizard: I saw a thing on that the other day and they used an encryption coding of english letters to english words to navajo words. A captured navajo serving in the military of the US was tortured and wasn't able to break the code even though he knew the language.
17:12:08 <TheBlueWizard> um..."put on a back burner" is an idiom meaning to put it off or put on hold, or something like that
17:12:43 <onetom> ah, thx
17:13:05 <onetom> but doesn it mean u r not programming in forth actively?
17:13:29 <TheBlueWizard> Etaoin: yeah, I know Navaho speakers do encode the English letters as well as words and such, but I didn't know the Japanese couldn't break the code even with the info "extracted" from those Navajo speakers
17:14:30 <TheBlueWizard> onetom: right...does not necessarily mean I am not actively coding in Forth...but right now, I am not actively coding in Forth...I have too many tasks to do! :P
17:15:04 <onetom> like discussin navajoz ;)
17:16:11 <TheBlueWizard> lol...right now I'm vegging out here plus reading Web articles; earlier, I was out hauling groceries and moving stuff...
17:16:12 <onetom> u r not lazy men, anyway. i havent seen so long msgz on any channel b4 ;)
17:16:20 <TheBlueWizard> so I deserve a little break ;)
17:17:10 <Etaoin> onetom: there are some even longer interesting discussions that I've been witness to.
17:17:16 <onetom> u know, in fact im yr boss, undercover :)
17:17:50 <TheBlueWizard> yeah, right....
17:18:32 <onetom> Etaoin: no the discussion is long but the msgz it is builded up by
17:18:41 <onetom> built
17:19:02 <TheBlueWizard> the Hungarian URL ain't bad....(file it away)
17:19:35 <onetom> let me proper check it 1st!
17:21:14 <TheBlueWizard> by the way I did locate a sample navajo text...it is at http://www.worldlanguage.com/Languages/Navajo.htm
17:21:55 <TheBlueWizard> note that it uses a lot of exotic letterings to represent various sounds that has no equivalent English sound
17:23:23 <onetom> chkd: will do, highly condensed but still very informative and it seems error free
17:24:13 <onetom> do u know of other forth irc channels?
17:24:23 <onetom> probably on other ircnets?
17:24:27 <XeF4> I would be very surprised if all the plain latin chars correspond 1:1 with English sounds
17:24:58 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...nope...unless you go to another IRC net such as Dalnet...though this network seems to be the best for forth
17:25:12 <Etaoin> there's always the newsgroup, I guess
17:25:29 <TheBlueWizard> yes...comp.lang.forth is pretty good
17:26:08 <TheBlueWizard> you can throw a question or two at comp.lang.forth, and you'd be bound to get some answers
17:26:23 <TheBlueWizard> I am sure there are PIC Forth coders out there
17:26:45 <onetom> thx 4 ther promising advices
17:27:12 <TheBlueWizard> no problem :)
17:27:13 <rob_ert> Hmm... I can't imagine forth on a machine with 68 bytes of ram :-)
17:27:15 <onetom> though news handling is the other weakness of mine beside irc 
17:28:11 <onetom> rob_ert: u dont have to try to imagine! i can show u such thingh throught the internet ;)
17:28:43 <TheBlueWizard> newsgroup is in many way similar to emailing; you just "email" (posting in Usenet jargon) to a specific newsgroup...be sure to select "new posting" rather than "replying to a post"
17:29:02 <rob_ert> onetom: :-)
17:29:10 <onetom> eg u can ssh in 2 steps in to a PC which is connected to a PIC through 4 wires of the LPT port
17:29:12 <rob_ert> What I don't see if why to use forth there...
17:29:23 <TheBlueWizard> that's for posting a new question...also don't forget to read c.l.f FAQ first!
17:29:36 <rob_ert> onetom: And what can you do then?
17:29:53 <rob_ert> onetom: Can you _program_ a PIC over the internet?
17:30:14 <onetom> u can tell simple simple commands to the PIC through it
17:30:30 <onetom> like fr@ ee@ prg@
17:30:32 <rob_ert> like..?
17:30:39 <rob_ert> ah, cewl...
17:30:47 <rob_ert> can you read data from it, too?
17:30:54 <onetom> these read RAM, EEPROM, PRGmem respectively
17:31:28 <onetom> yes, and i can even write to those 68 bytes
17:31:42 <onetom> funny, isnt it, he?
17:31:53 <rob_ert> yeah
17:31:58 <rob_ert> very cool indeed
17:32:07 <onetom> i wrote eg a midi flute controller in 4th
17:32:32 <onetom> compiled it into native pic code
17:32:42 <onetom> than attached to the gameport
17:32:48 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...quite impressive
17:33:01 <rob_ert> .-)
17:33:02 <onetom> and it worked through my blaster live quite well 
17:33:30 <onetom> i can show u the program if u r interested in it
17:33:47 <onetom> its just some K in src form
17:34:23 <rob_ert> K?
17:34:26 <onetom> and if u check its mem. req.z u will b amazed
17:34:34 <onetom> K= kilobytes
17:34:39 <rob_ert> hehe
17:35:14 <onetom> how few mem does such a small problem need
17:35:15 <rob_ert> Get your client to translate your strange writing style ;)
17:35:23 <onetom> :)))
17:35:27 <rob_ert> u -> you, 1z -> ones, b -> be, e -> are
17:35:29 <rob_ert> r*
17:35:33 <rob_ert> etc :-)
17:35:56 <onetom> probably some time i ll learn bot programming 2
17:37:15 <onetom> i have a bsd user friend, and ive learnt him lottsa things about computer
17:37:17 <rob_ert> Make an IRC client for a PIC :-)
17:37:55 <onetom> so i had to write tonns of chars to him
17:38:19 <onetom> thats why i got the habit of using such abbrevs so intensively
17:38:30 <rob_ert> hehe
17:38:43 <onetom> irc4pic is not a fiction either
17:39:03 <TheBlueWizard> out of curiosity, can you write Hungarian in a compact fashion?
17:39:04 <rob_ert> Not?
17:39:26 <onetom> u can freely download (dl) tcp/ip implementation 4 pic
17:39:41 * TheBlueWizard arches his eyebrows ar the claim that irc4pic isn't a fiction
17:39:52 <TheBlueWizard> cool....
17:40:03 <XeF4> TBW: how do you mean?
17:40:40 <onetom> TheBlueWizard: sure, i can. ive also told it b4! i use it everyday also in spoken lang as much as it possible (w my gf)
17:41:17 <onetom> the nicest contructs, when we mix up english and hungarian
17:41:49 <TheBlueWizard> hehe...cool!
17:42:02 <onetom> eg the pronounciation of 1 (one) is very similar 2 the hungarian word "van"
17:42:46 <onetom> what means "there is" or "do u have" and the like
17:42:56 <TheBlueWizard> I was asking cuz Hungarian relies on suffixing to do a lot of grammatical work, so I was just wondering, is all
17:43:00 <onetom> or simply means "be"
17:43:25 <onetom> oh, thats not a problem...
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17:43:55 <onetom> though i dont understand why do u think
17:43:55 --- join: XeF4 (xqvcpa@12-245-116-85.client.attbi.com) joined #forth
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17:44:26 <XeF4> prkl
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17:45:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard
17:45:15 <rob_ert> perkele!
17:45:20 <onetom> the blue fairy has solved in the sea :)
17:45:28 <TheBlueWizard> huh?
17:45:36 * TheBlueWizard thinks he missed out something
17:45:43 <onetom> just, u came back so slow....
17:45:51 <onetom> no, nay, nothin
17:46:14 <onetom> ive waited u come back
17:46:32 <TheBlueWizard> lol
17:46:33 <onetom> i have more interesing examples 4 u
17:46:42 <TheBlueWizard> just some stupid disconnection
17:46:57 <TheBlueWizard> sure
17:46:59 <onetom> like: 5let = ötlet = idea
17:47:46 <TheBlueWizard> heh....I remember this vanity plate stuff, like IM4U2NV
17:48:36 <onetom> yeah, that also worx just the same way in hungarian
17:48:51 <onetom> but can mix it, like
17:49:20 <onetom> ...
17:49:47 * onetom thinkin. forgot that amazing-funny example...
17:49:54 <onetom> ah, nevemind
17:50:02 <onetom> like: trump5
17:50:26 <onetom> pizza 6
17:50:51 <TheBlueWizard> the 5 and 6 are shorthands for some suffixes?
17:50:58 <onetom> i 7 u
17:51:22 <onetom> nooo. check them on that grammar page ;)
17:51:50 <onetom> 6 is "hat"
17:51:58 <onetom> pron: like hut
17:52:05 <onetom> 5 is "öt"
17:52:25 <TheBlueWizard> ah...I see
17:52:37 <onetom> pron: like ... dont know
17:52:48 <onetom> but the funniest is the i 7 u
17:52:54 <onetom> 7 is "hét"
17:52:59 <TheBlueWizard> like German O-umlaut?
17:53:14 <onetom> say, an example
17:53:21 <onetom> österreich?
17:53:27 <onetom> yes, just like that
17:53:29 * TheBlueWizard nods
17:53:54 <onetom> so hét is pron like hate
17:54:06 <TheBlueWizard> I know how to say that vowel...sounds like saying e but with lips rounded as if you are saying o
17:54:08 <XeF4> the ´  is for long sounds?
17:54:19 <rob_ert> It's no german umlaut! It's swedish too :D
17:54:36 <onetom> thats it. w rounded lips
17:54:44 <TheBlueWizard> Finnish has that sound too
17:55:15 <Etaoin> it's rather strange, but I find myself unable to concentrate on forth for more than a few hours before getting brain fried
17:55:21 <onetom> sure, they have! they r the 1s who has it the most! :)
17:55:53 <onetom> do u know how does finnish express vomiting?
17:56:27 <onetom> no? nobody?
17:56:40 <Etaoin> no
17:56:48 <XeF4> öööööööööööööööök ?:)
17:56:56 <onetom> :)))))))
17:57:08 <onetom> puhoa norja
17:57:25 <onetom> what takes "speaking in norwegian"
17:58:21 <XeF4> "puhua norjaa"?
17:58:40 <onetom> yeah, i dont speak that lang
17:59:08 <rob_ert> norska!
17:59:09 <onetom> uknow, my girlfriend is a linguist...
17:59:18 <rob_ert> jag snakker ikke norsk
17:59:21 <rob_ert> jeg*
17:59:23 <onetom> and she tells me such funny things
17:59:34 <onetom> but rarely writes them down
18:00:04 <TheBlueWizard> linguistics can be full of weird and funny things...but unfortunately you have to search hard for it ;)
18:00:31 * rob_ert knows "Hello" in Ukranian :P
18:02:02 <onetom> (interesting... nobody is excited about my midi flute program written in 4th, running in an env. having 68bytes of ram, just linguistix linguistix linguistix... ;)
18:02:40 <XeF4> one: does it attach to a flute, or what does it do=
18:03:38 <onetom> no, a row of old computer keyboard keys connect to it
18:03:51 <onetom> it polls them
18:04:01 <TheBlueWizard> onetom: sorry!  didn't mean to meander into linguistx!
18:04:10 <onetom> recognises various fingerings
18:04:17 <onetom> also alternate 1z
18:04:24 <Etaoin> 68 bytes?
18:04:38 <onetom> and sends midi events
18:04:40 <onetom> yes
18:04:49 <XeF4> excellent.
18:04:56 <onetom> 68byts of RAM
18:05:16 <onetom> the program is certainly larger...
18:07:38 <onetom> its ~0x0210 machine instructions
18:07:53 <onetom> and not optimized @ all
18:09:10 <onetom> but its rather l8 now, i guess, we - the european 1s - should take a nap. high time, isnt it.
18:10:48 <onetom> though - as a final round - some could help me kick in a news agent
18:10:51 <TheBlueWizard> bye onetom :)
18:10:55 <rob_ert> bye
18:11:24 <onetom> so i could try finding answers also on alt.forth...
18:11:28 <onetom> where?
18:11:36 <onetom> comp.ling...
18:11:40 <onetom> lang :)))
18:11:43 <onetom> sorry
18:12:20 <onetom> some clarifications would also b greatful in this area
18:12:28 <onetom> 4 me
18:12:39 <onetom> any1?
18:12:49 <onetom> what os-es r u using?
18:14:14 <rob_ert> Linux
18:14:52 <rob_ert> : n ." night." ; : _ ." Good" n ; _
18:14:59 <rob_ert> Night all :)
18:15:47 --- quit: XeF4 ("öitä")
18:15:56 <onetom> trn, tin, slrn, nn?
18:16:02 --- quit: rob_ert (": ^ 1 swap 0 do over * loop swap drop ;")
18:16:30 <onetom> cu guys
19:01:37 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye!
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23:19:00 <futhin> hi onetom & segher
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.03.02