00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.02.28 01:15:27 --- join: Soap` (~flop@210-54-66-206.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 02:00:51 --- nick: Soap` -> SoapSleep 02:44:46 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h173n2fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 05:21:16 --- quit: aum () 07:19:06 --- quit: rob_ert (Remote closed the connection) 07:19:26 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h173n2fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 07:20:32 --- quit: rob_ert (Remote closed the connection) 07:21:39 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h173n2fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 07:58:28 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust114.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 07:58:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 07:59:02 --- topic: set to 'fsave and turnkey added :)' by I440r 07:59:11 got some bugs to sort out tho 07:59:21 Hi :-) 07:59:25 THEN ill release official version 1.0 :) 07:59:39 how goes :) 08:18:12 --- join: aum (~david@l76-134.world-net.co.nz) joined #forth 08:41:44 --- quit: aum (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:44:40 --- join: CaffeineJunkie (~icafe@preiselbeere.icafe.spacenet.de) joined #forth 08:44:50 hoi 08:45:23 g'day 08:45:46 --- nick: CaffeineJunkie -> Speuler 08:49:11 hi 08:49:18 i got fsave and turnkey working :) 08:49:20 hehe 08:49:33 gota cpl of things to sort out then im releasing version 1l0 08:51:37 1.0 even 08:51:39 grrr 08:51:44 this keyboard hates me :) 09:02:48 --- quit: Speuler ("ircII/tkirc") 10:08:17 --- join: Speuler (~icafe@preiselbeere.icafe.spacenet.de) joined #forth 10:09:01 wb :) 10:09:17 --- mode: I440r set -o I440r 10:09:21 hi I440r 10:09:24 tnx 10:09:28 :) 10:09:37 i got turnkey and fsave working this morning :)))) 10:09:51 cool dood 10:10:04 do you think it would be worth my while joining comp.lang.forth to recruit help ? 10:10:06 getting good at that :) 10:10:18 yea - im getting good at making things work now :) 10:10:28 didn't look at c.l.f for a while 10:10:33 how come ? 10:10:37 even though i met some of the people there yesterday 10:10:50 i got boered by the current topics 10:10:51 ive been there a col of times 10:10:53 bored ... 10:12:17 i rarely do newsgroups for long 10:12:23 frequented clf for about a week 10:12:29 posted once or twice i think 10:12:32 thats it 10:12:42 same on linux kernel mailing list etc 10:23:50 --- quit: Speuler ("ircII/tkirc") 10:28:02 --- quit: I440r ("bugs - its them damned BUGS!!!") 10:29:10 --- join: Speuler (l@195.30.184.52) joined #forth 10:29:50 wb, mr. Speuler. 10:29:57 hi rob_ert 10:30:17 moved to another machine 10:30:59 Okay :-) 10:44:53 rebooting ... 10:47:50 Okay 10:48:58 ... 10:49:00 rebooted 10:49:08 w/o disconnect ! 10:50:17 :-D 11:36:43 --- nick: SoapSleep -> Soap` 11:40:42 Hi mr. Soap`. 11:40:57 mornin' 11:41:07 * rob_ert thinks of ree/joseph. 11:55:29 actually, so did i 11:55:46 i wondered whether mrsoap is an alias for ree ... 11:55:58 hi mr soap 11:56:04 :-) 12:05:09 'nup. 12:05:24 I'm just your standard, everyday i440r-stalker. 12:13:02 i wouldn't like being stalked by soap 12:14:02 you're a kiwi ! 12:14:14 True, but don't hold that against me. 12:14:30 do you know any good aussie jokes ?= 12:15:12 Not really. I also don't watch rugby or farm sheep. 12:15:14 * Soap` sighs 12:15:25 On the other hand, I *do* own a black singlet. 12:15:34 eh ? 12:16:05 n/m 12:17:06 that is an undershirt, or vest ? 12:23:11 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@Charybdis.suse.de) joined #forth 12:23:19 re 12:24:10 hi stepan 12:24:42 * Soap` nods 12:30:08 --- quit: Soap` ("reconnect") 12:30:47 --- nick: Speuler -> PhoodPhrenzy 12:32:54 * PhoodPhrenzy fancies fresh food very now 12:39:39 * Stepan tries to get his tokenizer working 13:03:40 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-175-123.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 13:05:12 --- topic: set to 'can you imagine forth coding on this beauty?! http://www.exonome.com/fj/phkl/' by ChanServ 13:20:43 --- quit: Stepan ("Do you think it is air you are breathing? Hmm?") 13:35:01 * PhoodPhrenzy burps 13:35:22 time for CaffeineJunkei-mode 13:35:49 --- nick: PhoodPhrenzy -> Speuler 13:40:59 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:04:17 --- join: Etaoin (~david@ljk11.sat.net) joined #forth 14:04:56 hello again 14:18:54 what's the standard ANS Forth method of getting a pointer to n consecutive unused cells? 14:19:41 or does such a thing exist? 14:45:43 --- join: Speuler (l@195.30.184.52) joined #forth 14:50:38 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@pD9E53D0C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:50:39 re 14:50:59 all you fools go to the site in the topic! bwahahaha 14:51:09 I did. 14:51:16 ah 14:51:20 yay :) 14:51:59 etaoin: your question.. hmm 14:52:02 i'm pondering! 14:52:09 no 14:52:12 don't understand your question 14:52:17 forth works differently 14:52:24 so that question really makes no sense to me 14:52:31 I've done some reading and yeah. 14:53:02 futhin: been there ? 14:53:17 I don't like the way HERE and ALLOT work though 14:53:21 speuler: yes.. i set the topic myself 14:53:40 futhin: what's it all about ? 14:53:54 eh? it's supposed to be funny.. 14:54:11 "imagine forth coding on this beauty.. pink hello kitty laptop" 14:54:22 ah 14:54:25 a laptop 14:54:30 nonsensical funny. 14:54:39 didn't bother to look 14:56:06 etaoin: i thought it'd be good for a chuckle.. i got a chuckle out of it when i saw it 14:56:18 it's just so kawaii (japanese for cute) 14:57:04 what is 10-Base-T jabber control ?? 14:57:43 is that useful ? 14:57:57 does it improve anything ? 14:58:25 jabber doesn't mean anything to me except "a useless instant messenging program" 14:59:55 jabber = "to move your mouse without expelling anything meaningful" 15:00:09 mouth ... 15:00:49 maybe some kind of traffic limiter 15:02:50 anyone knows an affordable 1Gbit -> 100Mbit switch ? 15:04:08 how many ports? 15:04:14 um 15:04:15 no 15:04:16 as many as possible 15:04:20 8, or ten ? 15:04:26 more ? 15:05:32 go to cisco's page 15:05:37 or nortel network's page 15:05:41 or juniper network's page 15:05:47 and check their prices 15:05:57 just looking at connectronics 15:06:15 that 100 mbit stuff is quite affordable 15:06:37 but gbit is another thing 15:07:06 http://www.ethermanage.com/ethernet/gigabit.html 15:07:09 i want to hook up a considerable number of machines to one server 15:07:24 all of them high speed network desired 15:07:28 100 mbit 15:07:37 ugh 15:07:45 the url isn't that useful actually 15:07:54 i was considering using serveral nics on one board in the server 15:08:08 having several independant lines to the hubs or switches 15:08:42 maybe i could go for 2x4 nics 100 mb, and have the machines share 100 mbit lines then 15:08:54 any better ideas ? 15:09:02 (about 50 machines) 15:09:15 (diskless) 15:09:47 (running with 10mbit hubs right now is pretty slow) 15:10:19 want to speed it up a load w/o paying a fortune 15:10:25 a lot 15:10:54 yeah, build your own switch.. a linux/bsd comp with a bunch of nics in it 15:11:21 all machines on the net are running linux 15:11:43 t'is now mainly, getting them all to talk to one server with good speed 15:12:27 as boards with 4x100 mbit are affordable 15:12:50 those may be an alternative to 1 gb nics 15:13:34 got 4 slots free in the server 15:14:21 Stepan: you're affiliated to a nuernberg company ? 15:14:56 Speuler: yepp 15:15:02 i work there 15:15:06 ah 15:15:27 i'm not so far away 15:15:41 where's that? 15:15:42 with a former client of yours ... 15:16:07 m(B?(Bnchen 15:17:00 still working at this time ? 15:17:41 no, i left at 7 already today. but fiddling with the openbios tokenizer 15:17:53 ah 15:18:11 i got this job thanks to your company :) 15:18:42 you switched them over to debian? ;) 15:18:56 well, i'm busy with it, yes 15:19:04 *lol* 15:19:10 good guess, eh? ;) 15:19:17 amazing 15:19:31 does that happen often ? 15:20:07 hm.. so chances go down i will find someone to rewrite yast2 in forth so it runs with less than 32/64 mb ;) 15:20:40 Stepan: rewrite it in cml2... 15:20:42 no, they don't 15:20:50 no, but many forth guys use debian it seems ;) 15:21:20 your may be right there 15:21:42 possibly, that's not a forth issue 15:21:47 more a developer thing 15:21:55 many developers use debian 15:21:59 it's people who love fiddling with stuff 15:22:04 yep 15:22:28 * Stepan uses debian on his amiga and bsd on his sun 15:22:38 s/bsd/netbsd/ 15:23:14 as more experienced a linux user becomes, as more likely he is to switch to debian 15:23:31 suse seems to be very popular with year 1-3 users 15:23:43 so there's still a huge market 15:23:58 all the ones who haven't even started yet using linux 15:24:14 those people are not attracted a lot by debian 15:24:32 so, basically, there's no conflict between systems 15:25:10 there is none anyways.. thats the cool thing about choice.. 15:25:30 i'm not into this distribution holy-war thing btw 15:25:34 i used slackware before suse started sending me free boxes because they found my name in the kernel sources *g* 15:25:46 remember SLS ? 15:25:51 i _hated- that stupid setup utility... ncurses did it's job 15:25:58 soft-landing solutions ? 15:26:02 yepp.. that was one of the first ones i installed 15:26:12 that's the one i started with too 15:26:22 --- quit: futhin ("i'm off to the real world, i'm off and away!") 15:26:37 30 floppies ... 15:26:51 no setup frontend 15:27:37 i really wished i would get people behind me to rewrite yast.. and rename it... its such a crappy name 15:27:43 so, you're quite an old-timer then 15:27:47 yet another... 15:28:05 started with programming in '85 and Linux in '94 15:28:13 well.. been a while 8) 15:28:46 but not from pre-pc times ... 15:29:01 i bought my first pc in '94.. 15:29:26 i had my first 5 pcs sponsored ... 15:29:27 had an itt3030 before and an amiga where i did some asm coding 15:29:37 Stepan: You started coding before I was born, Alter. 15:29:48 hehe 15:29:50 hush 15:30:05 robert: urghs.. thats when one has to feel old i guess ;) 15:30:14 no, just experienced :) 15:30:19 :-D 15:30:32 * Stepan fiddles with his long nonexistent beard 15:30:36 young in spirit 15:30:43 yeah! :) 15:30:44 In #forth I feel so young. Yay ;-) 15:30:48 ph34r my two day old obfuscation s| fs ... gforth ? 15:31:14 yes 15:31:20 That looks almost like sane code. 15:32:22 are you saying it's insane? 15:32:22 Stepan: you're new to forth i figure 15:32:28 uh.. structs.. i guess it wont work on open firmware 15:33:10 Speuler: jupp. mainly did Asm, C, C++, Java up to now 15:33:38 what makes you think forth would be a good candidate for recoding yast ? 15:33:58 I can provide the structs.fs if needed 15:33:59 Speuler: so as i havent learned any new language in a while it's forth time 15:34:32 unusual choice, forth 15:34:34 Speuler: it would run through my bytecode evaluator, if tokenized with my tokenizer and thus be platform independant and extremely small 15:34:35 Stepan: lisp and python are good. 15:34:43 mind you, i don't say "bad choice" 15:35:03 Etaoin: i prefer languages with no scoping by indentation 8) 15:35:13 yesterday, a visitor of the cafe asked me for forth books and docs ... 15:35:17 that was what i hated in haskell 15:35:17 Stepan: why? 15:35:37 Etaoin: because people with different editors _will_ fuck it up ;) 15:36:04 and i think there's great art behind { and } 15:36:12 I dunno. I've never had too much problem with that 15:36:20 during the last weeks, i came in contact with more people who became interested in forth, than in years before ... 15:36:49 like, there's some new impulse 15:36:54 Etaoin: even linus wrote a bit like that in his CodingStyle document... though in C its not a matter... 15:37:05 forth user group was pretty static for years 15:37:18 Speuler: are you an old time forther? 15:37:30 (that's probably why average age is above that of other langs, except maybe fortran) 15:37:32 yes 15:37:39 1981 15:37:52 Stepan: blah. we could argue, but I don't think we'd get anywhere 15:38:19 Etaoin: sure not *g* to be honest, i dont care.. :) It's just a nice theory ;)) 15:38:26 if you could call that "old time". there are people, who've been busy for more time than that 15:38:41 and depends on how people behave in big projects 15:39:32 Speuler: Well,.. but then you are above your 20ys programming experience already.. that is something, isnt it ;) 15:40:01 first non-pcoket-calculator programming i did on an ibm5100, apl, 1977 15:41:09 now we reached my year of birth ;) 15:41:11 teacher's effort to get me into assembler/360 was quite futile ... 15:41:16 * Stepan 's out ;)) 15:41:35 * Stepan looked into some bs2000 assembler during 96 15:41:49 but i still learned punch cards 15:41:56 sorting etc 15:41:59 we have some 390ies, but i never looked into asm programming them 15:42:09 hihi 15:42:16 i liked the interactive stuff much better 15:42:20 like the 5100 15:42:26 one single box 15:42:30 We had those too, but they were not really used anymore,.. we got rid of the last readers back then 15:42:40 screen, keyboard, tape 15:42:46 2 interpreters in rom 15:42:52 basic and apl 15:42:59 bs2000 is many boxes... you need 1000sqm and power and cooling is more than 10k$ a month 15:43:06 couldn't make sense out of basic 15:43:14 at least the one we had... 15:43:15 but apl i found quite accessable 15:43:32 basic is like php.. scripter' 15:43:35 s love 15:43:58 learn is fast and drop it early 15:44:08 learned basic about 3..4 years later 15:44:14 on a friends trs80 15:44:25 took about 2 hours :) 15:45:05 know one, know all.. 15:45:09 first own computer was an 6809 single-board computer, eurobus slot 15:45:13 similar with bcpl 15:45:26 with a whopping 440 kb video ram 15:45:38 448 15:46:08 (main mem was 48 kb ..) 15:46:13 hehe.. that itt3030 was a monochrome text only box with some z80 and cpm 15:46:50 used that machine for almost 10 years ... 15:47:12 6800(0) family was nice.. 15:47:16 *sniff* 15:47:20 only then started the 286 pcs putperform that machine 15:47:25 outperform 15:47:56 that's where i learned forth on, too 15:48:04 6809 is great architecture for forth 15:48:16 jmp [x++] 15:48:26 2 stacks 15:48:35 jepp 15:48:47 2 index registers 15:49:05 'xactly what you needed for forth 15:49:19 * Stepan did most of his asm stuff on m68k 15:49:34 i still work on a suse m68k ;) 15:49:50 just no machine i have would ever run yast2 ;) 15:49:54 amiga ? 15:50:13 * rob_ert pets his Amiga. 15:50:20 jupp.. have an a3000, one of the early series 15:50:26 got an old a500 lying around 15:50:30 rob_ert: what machine is it? 15:50:31 with scsi :) 15:50:40 :-) 15:50:52 512 kb ... 15:50:55 a-500 15:51:14 Some of the games rock ;) 15:51:47 i did some work on uae, ... when i bought a pc in '94 i started to write my own amiga emulator in asm under dos 8) 15:52:15 Nice :-) 15:52:15 but i stopped it as soon as i found uae ... i love that piece of software 15:53:52 When I've learnt more forth, I'll get my C64 with C64-forth running ;-) 15:54:29 the 6502 is not the ideal forth cpu 15:54:43 ot the 6502 derivate in the c64 15:54:56 reigster starved. 15:55:04 must emulate some 16 bit regs in mem 15:55:08 Then I only have BASIC left ;-D 15:55:11 doing 8 bit operations on those 15:55:38 Hehe.. I guess it's faster than basic at least :-) 15:55:45 that's very likely 15:55:55 no. t'is pretty sure 15:56:01 I wonder whether i will see the day my nice alpha is running openbios 15:56:43 hope t'is not the day when you use alpha machines for retro computing :) 15:57:08 :))) 15:57:18 forthers tend to be fancied by obsolete hardware 15:57:25 well.. they're supported until 2012 or so now 15:57:36 yes,.. i love old crap :) 15:57:43 like "see, it still runs on THAT machine too..." 15:58:00 :-) 15:58:00 but that machine is a 21264.. pretty nice 15:58:09 cafe's closing 15:58:14 but the hammer is just better 15:58:25 gotta leave 15:58:29 gd night all 15:58:35 cuu 15:59:22 --- part: Speuler left #forth 16:07:25 hmm.. anybody still here? 16:08:45 Yes. 16:08:47 :-) 16:08:51 * rob_ert keeps Stepan company 16:08:58 :-) cool 16:09:21 No, I looked at Forth, but I see no future in Forth. 16:09:26 ;-) 16:09:32 how would one want to write a forth string with special characters in it? " Hello World!"(0A)" 16:09:35 --- join: aum (~david@l76-131.world-net.co.nz) joined #forth 16:10:13 Hello. 16:10:36 or just allow "foo\nbar\ooo" with ooo being an octal number? 16:10:48 hi aum 16:11:44 forth is kind of crappy in that matter ;-) 16:11:50 Hi aum. 16:12:01 is there a standard? 16:12:21 i could implement a c style thingie into the evaluator.. 16:18:11 sounds like a plan 16:18:38 I don't have any old programming stories because I don't have any. 16:35:42 how did you start doing forth? 16:36:54 I heard it mentioned a few times and decided to try it out. 16:37:15 this was two or three days ago. 16:39:14 it still seems very weird to me.. though i get used to it.. playing a bit since last October.. 16:39:29 but i'm lazy 16:39:45 its stackbasedness is rather cool 16:40:23 Hmm... for a 8-byte displacement (in 16-bit x86 asm), values from -128 to +127 can be used, right? 16:40:36 yep 16:42:54 Okay.. 16:58:37 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust109.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 16:58:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 16:58:55 hi ppl 16:58:57 isforth version 1.00 is now ready for official release 17:00:17 Hi :) 17:00:19 Cool. 17:01:02 fsave and turnkey work and i fixed that bug with ./isforth - blah blah hehe 17:01:13 and #! works properly too now 17:05:40 why is isforth good? 17:05:52 if you have any other versions - get rid. get isforth-1.00.tgz from /pub hehe 17:05:54 hmmm 17:05:54 wel 17:05:58 its not that good yet 17:06:01 alot needs to be added 17:06:05 but its getting there :) 17:06:18 i can compile 45k+ of extentions in under a second 17:06:37 when i add hashed dictionary searches Ill be able to compile ALOT faster 17:06:58 i can turnkey - this means executables will be VERY small 17:07:07 and fast :) 17:10:27 hooray 17:11:04 plus. with isforth you are coding in FORTH - not some shitty psudo programming language like c :) 17:11:05 heh 17:11:15 * I440r is glad linus t isnt in here heheh 17:16:29 so, what does one use Forth for? 17:16:37 Humm... could you please tell me how the forth vm works? Just tell me what functions everything calls, and I'll read your code. 17:16:47 (the isforth code, that is) 17:18:04 you understand nest, next and exit ? 17:18:12 ohhh 17:18:17 how do you actually write forth ? 17:18:18 ok 17:18:25 first of all forth is a state machine 17:18:28 with 2 states 17:18:33 interpret and compile 17:18:49 hehe 17:18:52 i mean compiled code 17:19:06 ok well 17:19:11 do you know what 17:19:18 : xyzzy blah foo blahh foo ; 17:19:19 does 17:19:27 forth is in interpret mode. 17:19:29 it sees the : 17:19:37 colon parses the input stream and sees xyzzy 17:19:51 it then creates a new word header with xyzzy in the name field 17:19:57 it then switches us into compile mode 17:20:03 forth then sees the blah 17:20:08 searches the dictionary for blah 17:20:10 finds it 17:20:22 find returns the address of blah 17:20:41 we would normally execute that address but we are in compile mode so it compiles blah into the new word 17:20:49 the same happens for the foo blah foo 17:20:57 at this point forth sees the ; 17:21:08 semicolon is an IMMEDIATE word 17:21:19 that means that it will execute even if we are in compile mode 17:21:41 semi compiles an exit onto the end of the definition being defined and restores us to interpret mode 17:21:54 after doing this we will end up with the following in memory 17:22:03 new_word_header: 17:22:10 dd pointer to previous word 17:22:14 db length of name field 17:22:18 db 'name field' 17:22:23 dd pointer to code field 17:22:33 all of that exists in the header section 17:22:49 strdup is encapsulated in #if defined __USE_SVID || defined __USE_BSD || defined __USE_XOPEN_EXTENDED in string.h from glibc 17:22:51 In the executable priced? 17:22:55 produced* 17:23:09 the pointer to the code field points to the next free location in list space 17:23:14 Stepan: That's...good to know. 17:23:32