00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.02.27 00:44:39 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:50:52 --- join: aum (~david@l76-134.world-net.co.nz) joined #forth 03:49:03 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h173n2fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 04:04:01 --- part: aum left #forth 04:04:40 --- join: aum (~david@l76-134.world-net.co.nz) joined #forth 04:04:45 hi - anyone there? 04:06:48 Hej :-) 04:06:49 I'm here 04:09:05 hi rob_ert 04:09:15 are you a forth hacker? 04:09:23 since yesterday, yah :P 04:09:39 so don't ask me anything else than very simple questions 04:09:52 oh - ok 04:10:17 Were you here to ask anything, or just talk to the others about how great forth is? 04:10:20 i've been hacking forth for a few months, but i'm tangling with some pretty intricate data structure issues 04:10:45 no - i dropped in to canvass some opinions about data structure design 04:11:02 Okay.. then I really can't help you :) 04:11:20 no prob 04:11:22 --- part: aum left #forth 04:26:50 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@Charybdis.suse.de) joined #forth 04:27:03 Hoi 04:27:07 hi :-) 04:47:55 --- quit: rob_ert (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:58:30 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h173n2fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 08:33:53 --- join: ElectricHumanoid (l@195.30.184.52) joined #forth 08:34:02 hi 08:34:27 --- nick: ElectricHumanoid -> Speuler 08:37:52 Hi :-) 08:41:58 i'm just editing out a lot of stuff from a 386 version of forth, written in asm 08:42:22 so that vm, and a few hilevel and primitive words remain 08:43:46 if that runs, i send it to you 08:43:58 if that still would be of any help 08:45:27 thanks! 08:45:31 it would :-) 08:45:47 Not understanding how forth works is not a nice feeling ;) 08:45:50 as i couldn't find the 8086 demo 08:46:01 have fun ? 08:47:17 What? 08:47:49 what do you do to learn forth ? 08:48:31 Uhm... first of all I read about the basics of forth 08:48:39 now I have to find myself some forth code 08:48:42 did any playing with it ? 08:48:49 Do you know any "forth snippets collection"? 08:48:51 Yes, a bit 08:51:40 shit i deleted too much 08:53:59 will go to the munich forth meeting later on 08:54:06 that is, in half an hour 08:54:52 better pick up some phood instead of editing your source ... 08:55:02 have it on a floppy for sure 08:55:08 probably in the truck 08:56:52 there a busload of forth snippets coming with tileforth (linux) 08:56:58 also gforth has a lot of examples 08:57:07 gforth exists for linux too 08:57:24 but to learn about the vm, both are not well suited 08:57:54 vm is more obscure with these than required 09:03:28 brb, eating 09:05:34 came across create ... does> yet ? 09:05:53 such as in ... 09:05:55 create treedata 0 , 09:06:03 : tree ( addr -- ) create , does> recurse ; 09:06:05 treedata tree root 09:06:08 root x1 09:06:10 root x2 09:06:11 x1 x1a 09:06:13 x1 x1b 09:06:21 x1a x2 09:06:23 ... 09:07:35 what does : x here . 1 cells allot here . ; do? 09:08:18 here . , or here , ? 09:08:29 here . would output the address of here 09:08:42 here , would write the address of here to here, and allot one cell 09:09:03 1 cells allot allocates 1 cell 09:09:04 ah 09:09:05 i see 09:09:26 first it gives you the address of here BEFORE alloting 1 cell 09:09:39 then it gives you the address of here AFTER alloting one cell 09:09:50 the diff between the two nums is one cell 09:09:55 same as 09:10:01 here . 0 , here . 09:10:11 if you do 09:10:20 here 0 , here swap - . 09:10:32 it number is the same as cell . 09:10:36 or 1 cells . 09:11:04 here is top of stack? 09:11:10 do you have gforth running ? 09:11:19 no, i have an alpha :-( 09:11:30 no 09:11:31 but i'll play with it later on 09:11:35 here is pointer to end of code 09:11:42 or, begin of free memory 09:11:44 aah 09:11:59 : here dp @ ; 09:12:10 ( dp is dictionary pointer, a variable ) 09:12:12 what does allot do exactly? skip the memory in dictionary? 09:12:27 : allot dp +! ; 09:12:41 adds the number on top of stack to dp 09:12:53 .. to contents of dp 09:13:08 so, cell allot 09:13:11 woud be same as 09:13:20 dp @ cell + dp ! 09:13:25 or cell dp +! 09:13:56 : , here cell allot ! ; 09:14:04 0 , is same as 09:14:19 Back 09:14:23 0 here cell allot ! 09:14:27 What did "does>" do? 09:14:32 hah 09:14:40 that's a "tricky" one 09:14:56 : myconstant create , does> @ ; 09:15:12 : carray create allot does> + ; 09:15:21 10 carray foo 09:15:24 5 foo 09:15:37 gives you element 5 of character array foo 09:16:11 hm 09:17:21 what happens is: 09:18:15 lets take the myconstant example: 09:18:23 10 myconstant foo 09:18:27 foo . 09:18:29 ( 10 ) 09:18:42 upon 10 myconstant foo , 09:18:59 the part "create , " of myconstant is executed 09:19:19 that creates a header "foo", and puts "10" into its body 09:19:47 the runtime code of word "foo" is set to the code following does> 09:20:00 at runtime, the body address of foo is put on data stack 09:20:21 so, the @ after does> fetches the contents of foo, which is "10" 09:20:37 that way we can build a word to build constants 09:20:50 what does "," do? 09:20:58 (or in case of carray, we've built a word to build character arrays) 09:21:26 puts the number on top of stack to memory at here, 09:21:30 and allots a cell 09:21:45 allots? 09:21:45 it "compiles" a number 09:22:04 rob_ert: do you have a backlog ? 09:22:09 Yes.. 09:22:21 i've explained those to stepan just a few moments ago 09:22:34 Okay, then I'll check it there 09:22:36 thanks :-) 09:22:36 word "allot" allots 09:23:42 Where can I find a list with the most used standard words? 09:26:33 i'm gone now 09:26:36 okay 09:26:37 'll be back later 09:26:37 bye Speuler 09:26:41 after the meeting 09:26:45 about 9ish or tennish 09:26:48 see you 09:26:55 --- part: Speuler left #forth 10:20:26 --- quit: Stepan ("Do you think it is air you are breathing? Hmm?") 11:16:08 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-175-123.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 11:16:24 Hi 11:17:40 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@pD9E531D9.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 11:17:42 re 11:18:41 hi 11:19:21 hi Stepan 12:22:45 --- quit: rob_ert (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:40:01 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h173n2fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 12:48:48 --- join: ElectricHumanoid (l@195.30.184.52) joined #forth 12:49:03 hoi 12:50:13 --- nick: ElectricHumanoid -> Speuler 13:33:32 --- join: corsairk8 (~amakon@pc-62-30-122-106-cr.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #forth 13:33:37 --- part: corsairk8 left #forth 13:42:52 --- join: aum (~david@210.55.76.134) joined #forth 13:59:45 --- join: Etaoin (~david@ljk11.sat.net) joined #forth 14:00:03 Hi 14:00:10 hello 14:16:04 --- quit: aum () 14:16:26 how's it going all? 14:16:28 coding? 14:16:40 yes. 14:16:44 etaoin: you coding anything more? do you want some more projects? :P 14:16:49 rob_ert: in forth.. 14:17:42 in assembler :P 14:18:22 noo!!! :P 14:18:43 futhin: I'm about to start coding some more 14:18:45 you can code everything in assembler inside forth if you wanted 14:18:58 etaoin: ah? what are you going to code? 14:19:20 futhin: gonna look at how one would parse a file with s-expressions in it 14:20:30 s-expressions? 14:21:29 lispy syntax 14:21:43 nestled lists 14:22:19 um 14:22:24 you know lisp? 14:22:39 a bit 14:22:52 um, what would a file with s-expressions look like? 14:22:56 just give me an example .. 14:23:19 could be a file for lisp input 14:23:36 "(item1 item2 (nestled list blah) more items )" 14:24:52 yeah, i was going to write an eggdrop (irc log) processor.. i figured out how to open up the file and all that, but i didn't get to the point where i read in each line and detected what they were... 14:25:22 do you know which words you need to use in order to process (item1 item2 (... ? 14:25:40 no 14:26:18 me neither :P 14:26:46 This manual entry isn't really helping 14:26:47 except for one word 14:26:51 MATCH 14:26:58 i figured i'd use that 14:27:01 but not sure how 14:31:23 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:33:07 --- join: aum (~david@l76-134.world-net.co.nz) joined #forth 14:33:25 hi aum 14:33:26 wb 14:33:39 is the forth strong in you? 14:34:31 heh 14:37:28 yup 14:37:41 we abuse starwars analogies wayy too much :P 14:37:46 luke, i am your father! 14:43:59 have you done anything with linked lists in forth? 14:45:27 naw, i'm a newb coder.. all i've coded is the pyramid & diamond, and started a log file processor and started a forth mud :D 14:45:33 i'm a lazy coder 14:48:30 laziness is a virtue for coders 14:49:18 yup 14:49:32 you have to be clever if you want to get away being lazy 15:03:51 --- join: ElectricHumanoid (l@195.30.184.52) joined #forth 15:04:19 --- join: qless (~qless@clgr000977.hs.telusplanet.net) joined #forth 15:04:45 howdy folks 15:05:15 howdy q< 15:05:22 --- nick: ElectricHumanoid -> speuler 15:05:24 greetings elec 15:05:25 --- nick: speuler -> Speuler 15:05:36 greetings electricspeuler 15:05:44 :-) 15:06:30 hi Speuler and qless 15:06:37 heya rob_ert 15:10:12 "For the secret of rulership is to combine a belief in one's on infallibility with the power to learn from past mistakes." 15:10:20 own 15:10:42 or should that be, programmership? :-) 15:11:45 infallibility = ? 15:13:08 = incapable of error, perfectness 15:13:19 okay 15:13:24 thans 15:13:26 thanks* 15:13:37 English lessons are always appreciated :p 15:18:54 karkommen 15:22:38 sorry, that should be ingen orsak i think 15:25:47 wow its dead in here 15:26:32 better than some other channels 15:26:47 oh, you've been to #sendmail then? 15:26:51 :-) 15:26:54 no 15:29:21 --- quit: aum () 15:29:33 : rock n roll ; 15:32:28 * qless sits in his easy chair and reads "the theory and practice of oligarchical collectivism" 15:33:13 * rob_ert throws his copy of Mein Kampf on qless. 15:33:59 * qless parry's with neichtzie's "beyond good and evil" :-) 15:35:06 * rob_ert wonders if qless is a very conservative man. 15:35:42 hehe. hmm, lets see... dreadlocks... hemp clothes... beads... bongo drums... 15:35:52 yep, i must be a fascist 15:35:59 Yay! 15:36:03 * qless falls over laughing 15:36:21 * rob_ert notices qless has a copy of Das Kapital inside his pants. 15:36:38 Das what? 15:36:43 Das Kapital 15:36:48 Das Vhat? 15:36:54 A __very__ famous book. 15:37:00 By K. Marx. 15:37:16 oh the marx brothers 15:37:23 I just talked to a fanatic capitalist :-) 15:37:34 an ayn rand clone? 15:37:42 Ayn rand? 15:37:47 What/who is that? 15:37:56 _very_ famous american capitalist novelist 15:38:06 Okay... No, I don't think he's cloned. 15:38:31 cause that's what they're doing these days... cloneing themselves... so they don't have to worry about the sillyness of sex 15:39:18 Yes, sex is bad. Women should have tratitional clothes, not showing too much, and men should behave! 15:39:46 Indeed! And they should all wear the scarlett sash of the Junior Anti-Sex League 15:40:08 That Rock'n Roll music leads the youth into perversion. 15:40:24 Marylyn Manson is the Devil 15:40:27 They should read The Bible more. 15:40:31 No, Harry Potter is. 15:40:48 Witchcraft! I say burn them all! 15:40:52 i read fountainhead by ayn rand. pretty good book 15:41:07 Great movie too. Don't miss it. 15:41:08 Are you a fanatic capitalist, futhin? 15:41:46 i dunno 15:41:51 If anyone here is religious, read A. C. Clarke's "3001". 15:41:52 what's a fanatic capitalist? 15:42:11 futhin: If you say owning 100 billion dollars is OK, you're fanatic. 15:42:11 3001, isn't that 1000 over the line? 15:42:21 qless: 2001, 2010, 2061, 3001- 15:42:28 rob_ert: it is not a zero-sum game 15:42:40 futhin: ? 15:42:49 if you have a 100 billion dollars, that doesn't mean other people have less money 15:43:02 the economy isn't a zero-sum game 15:43:07 $100 billion is ok if you go to church on sundays and bomb the liviing fuck out of people during the week 15:43:22 futhin: I mean today. 15:43:33 futhin: When you can get a big burger for one dollar. 15:44:07 if i had the money, i'd donate a lot of it, i'd set up charities, i'd help out people 15:44:49 You wouldn't spend it all on sueing other companies, so you can make more money? 15:45:15 but a lot of people mistakenly hate bill gates because he has a lot of money. most of his money is locked into the value of his stocks. he also donated 3 billion dollars to charity in 1997. regardless, just because he is worth 36 billion dollars doesn't mean that there's less money for other people. 15:45:31 I'd sue The Beast for damages 15:46:01 lost time, lost hair, lost causes 15:46:08 lost files 15:46:15 futhin: I wasn't refering to Gates in person. 15:46:26 But everyone in the over-class. 15:46:28 if you guys ever go to college or university.. i recommend taking microeconomics and macroeconomics.. 15:46:35 Together they do own alot. 15:46:39 i took microeconomics 15:47:27 capitalism works, but no government has implemented it properly.. canada and u.s.a are close, but a lot of improvements can be made.. 15:47:56 canada is a communist country 15:48:00 lol 15:48:02 no it isn't 15:48:26 is is. its cold. its red. they play hockey. they drink hard liquor. communist, i say 15:48:29 lol 15:48:44 hmm 15:48:47 good point 15:48:56 except they don't play that much chess 15:49:14 and i don't know of russians playing hockey 15:49:19 chess is for accountants. real communists like the chinese play go 15:49:38 the whole russian country would play chess 15:49:58 chess was huge 15:50:25 i have an idea. lets play a game of chess for all the money in the world. winner take all. 15:50:40 what's the point? 15:50:49 the point is that it /is/ a zero-sum game 15:50:57 there is not a fixed amount of money 15:51:11 there's more money tomorrow than there is today 15:51:22 money is about value 15:51:35 people read too much into money, money is a symbol, a representation 15:51:41 there are only so many people, and trees, and rocks, and turtles, and giraffes, and they all have a value. add it up. that's how much the world is worth 15:51:43 of value, worth, production 15:51:53 * rob_ert thinks money is more important than people. 15:52:13 the value of things change, the production increases due to technology 15:53:14 yeah, there is more Stuff in the world. but like entropy, there are only so many ways the base elements can be combined 15:53:59 rob_ert: are you for sale? 15:54:06 take economics 15:54:09 read a few books :D 15:54:24 qless: 5 cents. 15:54:26 i was reading, when you guys interrupted me 15:54:35 We like interrupting 15:54:36 naw 15:54:38 you got on here 15:54:40 That's what IRC is for. 15:54:45 then you interrupted me 15:54:48 i'm reading Thinking Forth 15:55:03 :-) 15:55:04 got it via interlibrary loan 15:55:07 :) 15:55:18 it's the 1st edition, not the second though :( 15:55:23 is that the blue book with the assembly line on the cover? 15:55:29 it's a tad out of date.. 15:55:34 naw, it's a black book 15:55:43 hardcover 15:55:45 oh, i'm thinking 'starting forth' 15:56:04 i'm going to have to order thinking forth from amazon.com eventually 15:56:14 or starting thinking forth, or thinking thinking starting thinking starting forth... or something 16:03:01 does it ever bother you that the best forth programmers also happen to be.... German 16:03:23 * qless runs and hides 16:04:02 um 16:04:05 never noticed 16:04:15 there's only one forth programmer that i know of 16:04:17 chuck moore 16:04:19 bwahahaha! 16:04:25 is he german? maybe? i dunno 16:04:35 i'm just joking... don't want to start another world^H^H^H^H^H war 16:04:44 hm 16:04:48 just joking again 16:04:49 you are unusually active today 16:05:04 normally you are just some lameass lurker :P 16:05:17 * futhin doesn't like lurkers :D 16:05:20 oooh, shot to the jaw 16:05:45 i come here to relax when i don't feel like working 16:06:16 heh 16:06:19 no wait, maybe i come here to work when i don't feel like relaxing... no wait... 16:06:19 how unfair 16:06:23 i come here to work 16:06:27 sort of ;) 16:06:57 this is the busiest i've seen the channel in weeks 16:08:12 but its my lucky day it seems, because i'm going to sell rob_ert to the french for 5 francs 16:08:32 and you futhin, you're going to mexico 16:08:51 can't i stay in canada? 16:08:56 You're selling him to the mexicans? 16:09:09 futhin: Don't talk like that to your owner! 16:09:14 sorry, canada is for communists only. we don't like this idea of non-zero-sum games 16:09:18 ugh 16:09:26 In a free country, he has the right to sell you. 16:09:45 i'm part of the inner party. Big brother owns me 16:10:04 Yay! 16:10:14 * rob_ert wasn't even born in '84 :P 16:10:40 * qless 's first introduction to politics was reading 1984 in 1984 16:10:49 Heh. 16:10:54 really 16:11:03 i'd have to be 3 years old to read 1984 in 1984 16:11:04 I told you most people in #forth are way over 20 :P 16:11:22 I read easier stuff when I was 3...in '89. 16:11:42 i read 1984 in 1994 :P 16:11:52 Pat the Imperialist Blood Sucking Capitalist Swine Bunny? 16:14:08 hey soundman, my mic's gone dead again, check check 16:15:36 pub's closing down. g'd nite 16:15:39 2morrow ... 16:15:46 goodnight speuler 16:16:05 --- quit: Speuler ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1") 16:17:26 qless: do any coding lately? 16:17:29 in forth.. 16:17:38 yeah i've been up to my eyeballs in gtk/gnome 16:17:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 16:18:13 which unfortunately, is not forth, although a forth implementation would be interesting 16:18:26 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 16:18:42 fool! if it isn't forth, it's hell spawn! 16:19:43 * qless mumbles something about bible-thumping red-neck albertan small-mindedness 16:19:50 i'm a hypocrite 16:19:52 i don't code 16:20:18 i'm lazy 16:20:21 bah 16:21:59 maybe you should do something about that... 16:24:12 don't get all holier than me :P 16:24:18 are you coding in forth? ;) 16:24:37 : nope ." yep" cr ; 16:25:31 are you familiar with gforth?? 16:25:37 and interfacing with the libraries? 16:25:55 i don't think gforth does that very well 16:26:13 none of them do it very well.. 16:26:15 Hmm... A guy I talked to refused to accept that jews didn't hijack the plane that flew into wtc, just to get a reason to kill all arabs. 16:26:36 hehe 16:26:41 wtf? 16:26:55 i thought it was the easter bunny getting back at superman? 16:27:23 i thought it was santa claus getting back at walmart 16:27:35 I never think. 16:27:46 ah good 16:27:51 rob_ert: you talk to some pretty strange characters 16:27:54 that's the first step to being the better person 16:27:57 qless: Yes, I do. 16:28:28 most canadians i know laughed at the wtc incident :/ 16:28:29 I'm in #forth, the oldie-channel of OPN, and #ypn, that stands for Young Programmer's network. 16:28:30 rob_ert: channel, please. i'm going to have a word with these strange characters 16:28:36 futhin: heh 16:28:53 qless: ? 16:28:57 oh 16:29:02 #ypn... but he's gone now 16:29:36 rob_ert: oh #ypn. that's a known crazie hangout 16:29:46 Hehe 16:29:51 You've heard of it? 16:30:43 yeah, i used to be a #ypn long ago, back before 640K and colour monitors 16:31:03 heh 16:31:11 -ChanServ- Registered: 26 weeks 5 days (9h 20m 23s) ago 16:31:15 :P 16:31:26 qless is lying! Help! 16:31:31 Never though that'd happend. 16:31:39 He seems as trustable as air in #osdev. 16:31:54 rob_ert: oops, did i say #ypn? i meant #opn 16:32:08 lies 16:32:10 rob_ert: no, it was #npn 16:32:13 openprojects isn't that old 16:32:13 futhin: SOrry 16:32:18 me englich no good speel 16:32:19 speek 16:32:25 lol 16:32:28 i is from outland 16:32:35 far fomr civilisasion 16:32:38