00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.02.16
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04:14:27 <Speuler> g'day
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06:13:10 <I440r> hi fare
06:13:16 <I440r> i hear ur in scotland!
06:13:29 <Fare> indeed
06:13:42 <Fare> and Hofstadter is in Paris!
06:13:43 <I440r> ur not THAt far away from where i lived most of my life
06:13:46 <I440r> blackpool 
06:13:52 <Fare> yeah, you told me that
06:14:03 <I440r> i got a q
06:14:08 <Fare> my SO had been proposed a job in blackpool
06:14:16 <Fare> but Glasgow has good universities
06:14:26 <I440r> when you write shit like "\033[2J" WHO actually interprets and acts on it?
06:14:31 <I440r> the term emulation or the kernel
06:14:41 <Fare> sometimes the term emulation is in the kernel
06:14:52 <Fare> that's the case for the kernel console
06:15:02 <Fare> but for e.g. xterm, it's the user program that does
06:15:04 <I440r> i want to totally BYPASS all term emulation. go right to the kernel
06:15:09 <Fare> duplication of code and all
06:15:33 <I440r> even if im doing sys_writes to stdout the term emulation gets it ?
06:15:35 <I440r> not the kernel ?
06:15:36 <Fare> I440r: *some* kernels (like linux 2.0+) have /dev/vcsa and such
06:16:08 <I440r> isforth might be restricted to 2.2+
06:16:36 <I440r> if i use syscalls that ues ebp to pass parameters it will be restricted to 2.4 (gotta watch that)
06:17:03 <I440r> i just downloaded the source to eterm
06:17:23 <I440r> i noticed that eterm doesnt handle the ansi for save and restore cursor position the same as the console does
06:17:34 <I440r> so this means i have a BIG fucking problem
06:17:48 <I440r> unless i can totaly bypass Eterm, xter, rxvt, footerm etc
06:18:02 <I440r> isforth will have to be aware of each of the above's quirks
06:18:08 <I440r> 27848724357353725 meg more code space
06:18:09 <I440r> fuck that
06:18:25 <Fare> a system you might like to look at is Squeak
06:18:42 <I440r> squeak ?
06:19:33 <I440r> i REALY REALY dont want to have to deal with someone adjusting the x/y dimentions of their X console
06:20:08 <I440r> add a gazillion megs of code just to handle "idiot resized" or "this term dont know \033[this;that"
06:21:32 <I440r> whats squeak ?
06:24:40 <I440r> www.squeak.org ?
06:30:39 <I440r> fare ?
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10:18:14 * MrReach yawns, "Good morning."
10:26:53 <MrReach> I440r: you must be coding like crazy
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18:59:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard
18:59:11 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
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19:33:28 <TheBlueWizard> hiya qless
19:34:18 <qless> heya BlueWiz
19:34:58 <qless> are you an assembler programmer by chance?
19:36:16 <TheBlueWizard> I can write assembly codes....
19:36:54 <qless> if you were to write code under windoze, do you know which assembler youd use?
19:37:38 <TheBlueWizard> I'd use NASM
19:38:13 <TheBlueWizard> NASM is quite good (except in tiny areas; withess /topic above :)
19:38:14 <qless> cool.  i've got someone asking me this question and it looked like nasm was the best bet
19:38:30 <TheBlueWizard> but I don't do windoze shit
19:38:57 <qless> yeah, me neigher, but this poor sucker^H^H^H^H^H^H student will be doing an assembler course and needs tools
19:40:09 <TheBlueWizard> ah...NASM supports formats needed by Win-based tools....so it is no problems at all...of course the linker and canned libraries will have to be obtained separately
19:40:37 <qless> oh, no linker, eh?  hmmm
19:42:31 <TheBlueWizard> I don't think NASM includes the linker for Windoze
19:42:51 <TheBlueWizard> I could be wrong here however
19:43:20 <qless> i'm looking for link.exe in doze98 and it doesn't seem to be there... i guess the Beast dropped it
19:45:10 <TheBlueWizard> I think M$ supplies the linker with either Visual Studio or VC++ (or whatever)...but of course one will have to shell out the money for it...plus one would need tons of linker libraries so one can use Win32 API stuff....again, not readily available...sux, huh?
19:46:04 <qless> brrrr.  i think they've got enough money
19:46:13 <TheBlueWizard> of course it is a "one=time" price, then one can code on and on...but will feel pressure to recoup the investment....
19:46:37 * TheBlueWizard nods re: M$ getting way too much money
19:47:15 <TheBlueWizard> I think there is a student/educator's edition of VC++, which would be discounted
19:47:22 <qless> well enough people use nasm, there must be a free linker out there somewhere...
19:47:52 <qless> yeah, i cannot with a good conscience recommend anything with Visual-this or integrated-that in the name
19:48:54 <TheBlueWizard> probably free linker...but a linker by itself would be fairly useless by itself without any canned Win32 library objects
19:50:06 <qless> oh right.  cannot a person just say they want to call such and such function in a DLL?
19:52:07 <TheBlueWizard> I believe it is possible to cook up such direct calls, but I haven't the slightest idea how....
19:53:14 <qless> it just seemed reasonable
19:55:04 <TheBlueWizard> what seemed reasonable?
19:55:32 <qless> that one could call a dll directly using some kind of shared library loader magic
19:56:10 <TheBlueWizard> that'd be DLL stuff...again, no idea how
19:56:37 <qless> i'm sure she'll figure it out in her course if they actually teach win32 interfaces at all
19:58:21 * TheBlueWizard nods...and bets some Win32 calls will be required
19:58:58 * qless true.  good point.
19:59:55 <TheBlueWizard> I'd bet that she;'ll have to call PayBillGates$$$ function entry first :)
20:00:25 <qless> hehe :-)
20:21:09 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
20:21:16 <qless> ciao TheBlueWizard
20:21:29 <TheBlueWizard> bye qless
20:21:35 <qless> thanks for the tip
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.02.16