00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.02.06
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06:35:47 <[9of7]> 'oi
06:50:16 <Fare> hi
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13:03:41 <futhin> hi :)
13:04:07 <I440r> hi
13:04:16 <I440r> i think nasm is fucking me over
13:04:28 <I440r> ive defined shit in a .header section
13:04:35 <I440r> and shit in the .text section cant FIND it
13:04:51 <futhin> are you using labels properly?
13:04:54 <I440r> they can reference it but they get misdireted someplace off in space
13:04:54 <futhin> etc?
13:05:05 <I440r> of corew
13:05:08 <I440r> corse
13:05:20 <I440r> any time a header is created in the header section i have a label created for it
13:05:33 <I440r> for instance if you create a header for a word called foo you get
13:05:40 <I440r> foo_header:
13:05:45 <I440r>  the header goes here
13:06:03 <futhin> the shit in .text section gets mixed into the .header section in the actual code
13:06:13 <futhin> they all get mixed together
13:06:14 <futhin> i think
13:06:18 <I440r> but if you do lea eax,foo_header within your .text section you DONT point at the header
13:06:21 <I440r> no - they are seperate
13:06:50 <I440r> you can SEE they are seperate by hex viewing the executable
13:06:57 <futhin> i coded a program in nasm and it is like "jmp to code, <data>, code"
13:07:17 <I440r> thats how ppl usually write dos .com code
13:07:38 <futhin> nasm compiled it into jmp to code, data, code
13:07:41 <I440r> brb 
13:07:41 <futhin> i didn't
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13:34:41 <futhin> hi speuler :)
13:34:50 <Speuler> g'day futhin
13:35:08 <Speuler> working on world domination ?
13:35:21 <futhin> shh!
13:35:24 <futhin> secret :P
13:35:31 <Speuler> ah
13:35:34 <futhin> heh
13:35:47 <futhin> i don't remember saying anything to you about world domination
13:35:50 <futhin> heh
13:36:04 <futhin> naw, these days i'm focusing on learning daytrading
13:36:39 <futhin> or something that generates cash
13:36:52 <futhin> gotta go buy a router
13:36:53 <futhin> bbl
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13:40:40 <I440r> hi regen
13:53:23 <I440r> bongo explain how your code looks at headers
13:53:41 <I440r> how does youru code section look at a specific header in the headers section
13:53:47 <I440r> my code CANT :(
13:55:35 <I440r> what is your 'find' called ?
14:03:01 <Speuler> ah
14:03:38 <I440r> its FIND thats segfaulting with me because "last" doesnt point to the expected location
14:03:42 <Speuler> headers: list of  db len1,"name1",len2,"name2",len3...
14:03:51 <Speuler> sorry. mistake
14:03:51 <I440r> because nasm is fucked in the head
14:04:03 <I440r> section a should be able to directly reference data in section b
14:04:03 <I440r> it cant
14:04:15 <Speuler> headers: list of:
14:04:23 <Speuler> dd body1
14:04:26 <Speuler> db len1
14:04:31 <Speuler> db "name1"
14:04:36 <Speuler> dd body2
14:04:41 <Speuler> db len2,"name2"
14:04:42 <Speuler> ...
14:05:37 <I440r> yes - thats similar to wht i have
14:05:38 <Speuler> name>  only does @
14:05:51 <I440r> i have dd link, db len, db name, dd pointer to code
14:06:07 <Speuler> what is link good for ?
14:06:36 <I440r> it points to the previous header in the list
14:06:57 <I440r> it actually points to the NFA of the previous header
14:07:01 <Speuler> there's the possibility of additional data between headers ?
14:07:07 <I440r> not the lfa
14:08:18 <I440r> name field lengths are variable and i search from he END of the list to the beginning
14:08:31 <I440r> the most recently defined words are at the END of the linked list
14:08:40 <Speuler> but, doesn't the len bytes tell you already ?
14:08:56 <Speuler> ah.
14:09:00 <I440r> how do you know where "len" byte of the previous header is
14:09:06 <Speuler> can't search backwards easily this way.
14:09:09 <I440r> actually i can find it if i scan backwards for a 0x80 bit
14:09:12 <I440r> but thats slow
14:09:22 <I440r> the link field is a speed up
14:09:35 <Speuler> put first word last
14:09:38 <I440r> and headers are throw away data anyway so it doesnt matter if i make them boigger for speed
14:09:40 <I440r> no
14:09:40 <Speuler> (hi mem)
14:09:57 <I440r> headers grow downward in memory heh
14:10:00 <Speuler> then put count byte at end of string
14:10:06 <I440r> and the variable last points to the last word defined
14:10:16 <I440r> the link fields work
14:10:27 <I440r> the feb03 tgsz proves this
14:10:47 <Speuler> contains the link an offset, or an absolute address ?
14:11:18 <I440r> according to the list file ALL addresses are calculated as offsets from the start of what ever section they reside in
14:12:29 <Speuler> i mean: can you move headers around, without needing to update links ?
14:12:44 <I440r> no - not once the executable is running
14:12:51 <I440r> they are absolute addresses by then
14:13:23 <Speuler> your links don't give you a real advantage then, just a restriction
14:13:29 <Speuler> and they cost extra mem
14:13:36 <I440r> what restriction
14:13:50 <I440r> if you look at the executable its ALWAYS loaded into the same address
14:14:13 <Speuler> can't relocate headers
14:14:20 <I440r> i CAN
14:14:25 <I440r> and i WILL
14:14:27 <Speuler> and the links ?
14:14:37 <I440r> all i need to do is fucking point to the last one and im sorted
14:14:48 <I440r> but its totally not where my pointers are pointing
14:14:59 <I440r> which is FUCLKED IN THE HEAD
14:15:03 <Speuler> how do you correct the links if you move headers ?
14:15:22 <I440r> by hand dood - thats not the issue
14:15:36 <I440r> thge issue is being able to point to the fucking things
14:16:03 <I440r> copy header from .headder section to .bss - writing a dummy link address
14:16:11 <Speuler> the reason for the link field is to be able to take acocunt of the stuff between headers (bodies) which is unnecessary if your headers are in an own segment, packed
14:16:19 <I440r> copy next header and backfill the dummy link address to the location of the second header
14:16:21 <I440r> its NOT a problem
14:16:41 <I440r> there IS not fucking stuff BETWEEN headers
14:16:42 <Speuler> its like putting a horse in front of a car because you always had a horse in front of a carriage
14:16:45 <I440r> foo_header:
14:16:53 <I440r>  dd pointer_to_previous_header
14:17:01 <I440r>  db length
14:17:03 <I440r>  db "name"
14:17:08 <I440r>  dd pointer_to_code
14:17:15 <I440r> every header is like that -
14:17:22 <I440r> theres no EXTRA data between ANY header
14:17:41 <I440r> theres nothing wrong with the struction of any header
14:17:44 <I440r> the problem is
14:17:46 <I440r> if i say
14:17:52 <I440r>  mov ebx,foo_header
14:18:02 <I440r> ebx does NOT fucking point at foo's header data
14:18:04 <I440r> AT ALL
14:18:11 <Speuler> sure. if i'd put two link fields in, there still would be nothing wrong, but you'd call that plain stupid
14:18:40 <I440r> speuler how about we fix the referencing problem before we optimize the code ?
14:18:40 <I440r> heh
14:18:50 <Speuler> what do i need a pointer to a header, when i got the xt, for ?
14:18:57 <I440r> ugh
14:19:01 <Speuler> for debug ?
14:19:05 <Speuler> for .name
14:19:07 <I440r> the CODE does NOT point at ANY headers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
14:19:13 <Speuler> exactly.
14:19:18 <Speuler> there's no problem with that
14:19:19 <I440r> dood
14:19:27 <I440r> leave the linking alone - thers nothign wrong with it
14:19:48 <I440r> i dont care if you can improvbe on it - because your improvement will still have the same failing my headers have
14:19:52 <I440r> they are NOT locatable
14:19:56 <Speuler> those operations, when you want body>head>name, are not required to be fast operations
14:19:57 <I440r> your code CANNOT find them
14:20:06 <Speuler> they are.
14:20:15 <Speuler> there are no pointers from body to header
14:20:21 <Speuler> there are no pointers in the headers
14:20:27 <I440r> my .data section has a word called "last" in it
14:20:28 <Speuler> i can just cmove them !
14:20:30 <I440r> it is defined as
14:20:33 <I440r>  call dovariable
14:20:45 <I440r>  dd pointer_to_name_field_of_the_word_last
14:20:49 <I440r> if i say
14:20:53 <I440r> last @ count type
14:20:58 <I440r> i SHOULD type out
14:21:01 <I440r> last
14:21:04 <I440r> it doesnt
14:21:05 <I440r> it get
14:21:11 <I440r> &^Hi8TR&UOL&^TH(OKHGT*(^R%#**&(HC:SOIUKUWKEUGFOLIK
14:21:11 <Speuler> ok
14:21:30 <Speuler> but, body>name is done compile time.
14:21:42 <I440r> forget body>name
14:21:44 <Speuler> my body>name just searches through headers, until xt of header = tos
14:21:47 <I440r> forget >body
14:21:49 <Speuler> if, header found
14:21:49 <I440r> forget >name
14:21:51 <I440r> forget all that
14:21:54 <Speuler> slower
14:21:57 <Speuler> hardly ever required
14:22:02 <I440r> how can you FIND any header if you cant POINT at any
14:22:07 <Speuler> saves me lots of pointers
14:22:14 <I440r> your going off on a fucking tangent!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:22:18 <Speuler> i you deaf ?
14:22:20 <Speuler> are 
14:22:24 <Speuler> i told you
14:22:26 <Speuler> already
14:22:31 <Speuler> can't you read ?
14:22:36 <Speuler> again:
14:22:46 <Speuler> ( xt -- name )
14:22:55 <Speuler> search headers:
14:23:05 <Speuler>    1st header body pointer = xt ?
14:23:05 <I440r> find doesnt KNOW the XT of the word it is looking for
14:23:12 <Speuler>    no, try next header
14:23:13 <I440r> THATS what its trying tonfind!!!!
14:23:17 <Speuler> until all headers
14:23:23 <Speuler> if no match,
14:23:26 <I440r> your backwards
14:23:29 <Speuler> no corresponding header
14:23:32 <Speuler> if match
14:23:33 <I440r> given the NAME of a word
14:23:35 <Speuler> header found
14:23:37 <I440r> search the dictionary for that name
14:23:43 <I440r> return that names xt
14:23:53 <I440r> not - given an xt of a word search for that words name!
14:24:19 <Speuler> sure, easy. just search words until headers match
14:24:22 <Speuler> string compare.
14:24:23 <Speuler> easy
14:24:29 <I440r> find is written
14:24:30 <I440r> find words
14:24:45 <I440r> all it has to do is be able to fucking POINT at the fucking linked list of headers
14:24:49 <Speuler> count  2dup  match not while + repeat 
14:24:57 <I440r> stop trying to fix the linked list into a sequential list
14:25:05 <I440r> thats NOT whats fucking wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
14:25:11 <Speuler> and when headers move, you may update all pointers ?
14:25:15 <Speuler> you must be kidding
14:25:24 <I440r> how can i search head space if i cant fucking FIND IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:25:34 <I440r> headers dont need to move
14:25:37 <I440r> at all
14:25:49 <Speuler> i know where the last header has been written to 
14:25:54 <Speuler> no fantasy ?
14:25:54 <I440r> so do i
14:26:06 <I440r> but when i look there,,,, i get junk
14:26:14 <I440r> run the febo3 and do this
14:26:19 <I440r> last @ count type
14:26:20 <I440r> then do
14:26:22 <I440r> : foo ;
14:26:28 <I440r> and do last @ count type
14:26:33 <I440r> then do
14:26:35 <I440r> : blah ;
14:26:40 <I440r> then do last @ count type
14:26:47 <I440r> everything WORKS
14:26:56 <Speuler> well, i've put "words" as example in the startup
14:27:00 <I440r> all i have to be able to do is KNOW WHERE THE HEADERS ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:27:05 <Speuler> it actually prints them out
14:27:16 <I440r> do that in feb03
14:27:17 <I440r> words
14:27:37 <I440r> then define new words and do words again
14:27:41 <I440r> it all fucking works!
14:27:46 <Speuler> i believe you when you say your version doesn't do it
14:27:49 <I440r> ill "optimize" it LATER
14:28:20 <I440r> bongo u realy are going off on a tangent - you want to fix the flat tier when the engine is blown up!!!!
14:28:30 <I440r> you can drive the car on a flat tire
14:28:35 <I440r> you cant drive it with a blown up engine
14:29:03 <I440r> look in macros.1 - learn how the header macro works
14:29:08 <I440r> look at how 
14:29:09 <I440r> code
14:29:10 <I440r> and 
14:29:11 <I440r> colon
14:29:18 <I440r> macros use the header macro
14:29:23 <I440r> and the var and constant macros too
14:29:37 <Speuler> wi've given you another engine, and told you you could check air pressure. 
14:29:38 <I440r> then look in isforth.asm and find the definition for the variable LAST
14:29:58 <Speuler> you tell me why you must ride on low pressure.
14:30:00 <I440r> and see that it does in fact supposedly point to its own name field address
14:30:06 <I440r> except it DOESNT
14:30:16 <I440r> tell me WHY it doesnt and tell me how to make it do so
14:30:19 <Speuler> artists fate
14:30:36 <I440r> i do not want you go give me another engine
14:30:48 <I440r> i might as well give you the sources to isforht and just go the fuck away
14:30:58 <Speuler> ok
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14:31:03 <I440r> you arent addressing the question
14:31:41 <I440r> no - i wasnt telling you to go away :P
14:31:53 <Speuler> you know your source better than i do. you should be able to tell me why it doesn't work
14:32:03 <I440r> i have tried
14:32:08 <I440r> i have tried and tried and tried
14:32:17 <I440r> by al accounts it SHOULD work
14:32:17 <Speuler> i had a similar problem as you had
14:32:27 <I440r> ive read the nasm source files and they have shit like this
14:32:29 <Speuler> so i put some effort into to work around the problem
14:32:31 <I440r> section .data
14:32:32 <I440r> foo:
14:32:35 <I440r>  db 'blah blah'
14:32:38 <I440r> section .text
14:32:38 <Speuler> that was not a single action
14:32:42 <I440r>  lea ebx,foo
14:32:47 <I440r> thats all im trying to do. 
14:32:48 <Speuler> that was, adapting the source to nasm
14:33:00 <I440r> i dont want to "work arround" it
14:33:01 <Speuler> write so that nasm would give me good code
14:33:03 <I440r> i want to fix it heh
14:33:23 <I440r> the nasm dox all say what i am trying to do will work
14:33:28 <I440r> they even give examples of it
14:33:49 <Speuler> fthe first problem i had was with user declared sections
14:34:00 <Speuler> i told your before
14:34:20 <Speuler> so i got rid of user declared sections
14:34:27 <Speuler> those problems disappeared
14:34:35 <I440r> where do i put my headers
14:34:40 <I440r> cant put them in .bss
14:34:44 <I440r> cant put them in .data
14:34:44 <Speuler> no i structured the thing so i could write it in the default sections
14:34:51 <I440r> cant have my code in .text because thats not writeable
14:35:06 <Speuler> and the result allows to to access the headers, AND they are seperate
14:35:13 <I440r> if i moved all code to .text and all headers to .data it would work if .text was writeable
14:35:15 <Speuler> and i gave you the result of that work
14:35:23 <I440r> nasm will NOT allow me to make .text writeable
14:35:37 <Speuler> for problems with nasm you could try the nasm developers
14:35:48 <I440r> the default sections are
14:35:49 <Speuler> i just worked my way around the features
14:35:54 <I440r> .text   cannot write to this
14:36:00 <I440r> .data    can write and execute here
14:36:06 <I440r> .bss    can write and execute here
14:36:24 <Speuler> i came, while writing this, to dislike nasm, btw
14:36:24 <I440r> there are no nasm developers
14:36:26 <I440r> its been dropped
14:36:29 <I440r> and picked back up again
14:36:32 <I440r> and dropped
14:36:36 <I440r> and picked back up again
14:36:47 <I440r> so many times that finding who is maintaing it now is impossible
14:37:29 <I440r> and i have contacted them before and they are a bunch of snobbs 
14:37:29 <Speuler> that's the problem with free software. would you have commercial, you
14:37:37 <I440r> dood
14:37:45 <Speuler> 'd still obtain no help, but you'd know whom to blame
14:37:47 <I440r> ugh
14:49:39 * futhin is back
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15:04:55 <futhin> bbl
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15:12:01 <I440r> eek!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:12:03 <I440r> axe!
15:12:34 <I440r> why the heck didnt he wait arround :P
15:15:28 <I440r> luckilly - i know where to go find him :)
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16:04:28 <futhin> i'm l33tah!
16:04:33 <futhin> with mah router! ;P
16:06:41 <I440r> u got it working ?
16:07:00 <I440r> can u telnet into it ?
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18:00:02 <I440r> ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
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18:17:06 <I440r> fuck
18:17:13 <I440r> i fucking hate xchat
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18:21:51 <I440r> fucking pile of SHIT
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18:28:52 <futhin> hi!
18:28:56 <I440r> bbl
18:28:59 <futhin> heh
18:29:00 <I440r> trying to fix xchat
18:29:02 <futhin> ah
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18:29:05 <futhin> xchat = lame
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19:15:19 <I440r> hi
19:17:28 <futhin> yup
19:25:39 <I440r> well isforth is in "going nowhere fast" mode
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20:07:32 <futhin> lies
20:07:40 <futhin> you are coding in it are you not?
20:08:01 <futhin> just bug ree to setup linux
20:09:17 <I440r> heh
20:11:04 <futhin> what's up?
20:11:12 <futhin> are you deadlocked?
20:13:53 <I440r> deadlocked ?
20:13:58 <I440r> if i dont sort this out
20:14:00 <I440r> its dead
20:14:18 <I440r> im trying to change perms on .text for writeable
20:16:30 <futhin> you aren't using a86 because it's not usable in linux?
20:20:20 <I440r> its not
20:21:35 <futhin> so what are you doing right now?
20:21:56 <futhin> i'm contemplating cooking up soup or going to bed
20:21:57 <futhin> hmm
20:21:58 <futhin> soup!
20:23:47 <I440r> debugging
20:23:53 <futhin> ah
20:23:58 <I440r> but using ddd/gdb is like useless
20:24:05 <I440r> because single stepping thru the code its working
20:24:07 <futhin> code up a debugger in gforth or something
20:24:13 <I440r> run the program and it segfaults
20:24:26 <futhin> but really, why not code up a debugger and assembler in gforth?
20:24:34 <futhin> then use the assembler to compile your asm code
20:24:46 <futhin> shouldn't take that long :P
20:28:44 <futhin> forthers are always going on about how easy it is to code stuff in forth :P
20:29:09 <futhin> eww, this soup sucks
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21:19:18 <I440r> hi
21:19:36 <I440r> biko we talked before ?
21:19:46 <I440r> u a forth coder ? :)
21:21:46 <Bikozaar_> yep...
21:21:55 <Bikozaar_> yep..a 4ther..
21:22:03 <Bikozaar_> Will catch u later...
21:22:07 <Bikozaar_> gotsa run
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21:43:33 --- quit: futhin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:22:53 <I440r> fuck
22:22:58 <I440r> still get underlines :(
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.02.06