00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.02.04 01:31:30 --- quit: aum () 05:55:31 --- join: Fare (fare@bespin.org) joined #forth 06:04:05 --- join: I440r (mark4@1Cust118.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 06:04:28 hi ppl 06:04:28 anyone awake ? 06:04:29 hi fare !! 06:05:08 hi 06:05:43 u seen the latest working version of isforth ? 06:05:43 u keeping track ? 06:05:56 im trying to switch back to seperate code and head space 06:06:07 and its not working 06:06:07 i can see NO reason for it not to work 06:06:21 but it segv's 06:09:03 grr mc's hex dump wont let me hex edit grrr 06:09:03 thats lame!!!!!!!!! 06:10:00 gotta install MORE shit grrr - i hate that :P 06:11:13 so what u been doing fare ? 06:11:13 working on any projects ? 06:12:36 I$$)r: trying to recover my server from disk death 06:13:44 eep! 06:13:56 having any luck ? 06:14:41 no, the disk is dead - only opening it in a white chamber could help ($2400) - so I reinstalled it from scratch instead 06:15:41 :( 06:16:15 i fscked up last week, my laptop linux partition was all fucked up - nothin was working right 06:16:20 i tried for weeks to sort it out 06:16:27 and in disgust i did 06:16:27 rm -rf / 06:16:33 felt good about it too :) 06:16:40 then when i rebooted i went to dos 06:16:47 and found NOTHING there heh 06:16:54 my /dos was mounted 06:17:11 all i can think is thank god my samba shares wernt mounted 06:17:19 or i would have lost all of isforth + shitload of other stuff! 06:17:27 but that would have been my fault :P 06:17:33 oops 06:17:45 the morale is: always keep backups 06:18:55 hehe yea 06:19:06 that IS why i installed that cdrw in the server 06:19:18 actualy, i didnt lose anything on the laptop except time 06:19:31 i restored windows with the supplied rescue cd 06:19:31 there was no way my 8gb of mp3 could fit in a Cd 06:19:42 then i ran fips and created space for linux partitions 06:20:02 did a bare minimum potato install on linux 06:20:09 then ran an 11 hour dist-upgrade 06:20:23 actually - the only reason i DONT have a backup of my server is that 06:20:38 i cannot find a single utility that will do incremental backups and restores to MULTIPLE cdrw's 06:20:48 something that will let me back up from a list of selected files 06:21:04 and restore only selected files from the cd set 06:21:09 I440r: tril says he had a script to do it 06:21:16 oh, selected files. 06:21:19 if it exists - i cant find it 06:21:23 No, I don't think that exists 06:21:45 hopefully, by the time your computer crashes, you have a much bigger HD, and can restore all files then pick them up 06:23:02 my server has like a 30 gig drive in it 06:23:25 mine had 46G :( :( 06:23:26 and i have a partial mirror of debian on there heh 06:23:26 havent updated the mirror in months tho 06:23:38 cant 06:23:38 im on the worlds shittiest dial in 06:24:21 I440r: can't you bring an IDE or SCSI rack to the nearest university and mirror there? 06:24:52 dont have scsi 06:24:55 dont have an ide rack 06:25:05 could take the box there and do it 06:25:14 would they let me ? 06:25:27 actually, theres no point in my doing that because nobody but the local network could upgrade from it 06:26:03 a rack is like $15 in France 06:26:21 very much worth it 06:26:46 and yes, you can share it on the LAN just like a normal IDE disk 06:27:33 well - i cant even afford $15 right now - havent had a job in like 6 or 7 months :( 06:27:48 bad 06:28:11 have other people on the LAN pay for it, then 06:28:15 very bad 06:28:34 grr i need tcn's help - ive emailed him but he is going thru one of those "fuckit i cant be bothered" 06:28:38 like i was till last week heh 06:29:02 lan = me, me, me, dad 06:29:04 heh im greedy - 5 have 3 boxes hehe 06:29:16 i 06:29:27 grr fuckin numlock on laptop :P 06:29:54 I440r: can't you even apply as sysadm in a nearby shop? 06:30:22 i worked at ski world 06:30:22 but it isnt good enough 06:30:34 ive got a 190k house here i just baught 06:30:40 oh 06:30:46 if im not earning at least $50 usd per hour im going to lose it 06:30:54 rent a room? 06:31:22 heh thanx 06:31:29 u seen my house ??? 06:31:29 6 acres 06:31:29 3 buildings 06:31:36 im in a valley of my own here 06:31:50 i can shoot any of my 50+ guns ehre and not hit anything i shouldnt 06:32:10 actually i dont have 50 guns - i only have 3 or 4 hehe 06:32:16 my dad has 50 :P 06:32:34 in Europe, you're mostly not allowed to have guns. 06:32:46 except if you're a criminal, or part of the establishment 06:33:11 exactly 06:33:23 which is why in europe you take your life into your own hands just LIVING there 06:33:31 thats one of the reasons i got the fuck out of england 06:34:14 oh, you were in England? where that? 06:34:19 my dads car alarm went off last night - for no apparant reason 06:34:19 i was out there with my 45 ready to do battle with whoever it was hehe 06:34:20 nobody there tho heh 06:34:26 i lived in blackpool england 06:34:41 that is the crime/queer/drug capital of england 06:34:53 teh cray twins tried to move into blackpool 06:35:04 got booted out 06:35:16 i knew ppl who could - for the right price- get you ANY weapon 06:35:18 cray twins? 06:35:28 want some semtex ?? 06:35:28 itll cost ya 06:35:29 what would the right price be? 06:35:39 as compared as same weapon in US? 06:35:40 want an ak-47 ???? 06:36:07 they were twin brothers in london who were organized crime lords 06:36:14 they would walk into a pub 06:36:22 shoot someone 06:36:22 walk out 06:36:22 * Fare read about a man getting life for killing a robber who entered his house for the third time. 06:36:27 (in UK) 06:36:40 yes 06:36:48 (an armed robber at that - had a crowbar) 06:37:00 in england - if you are a girl being RAPED and you defend yourself 06:37:09 your attacker can sue 06:37:09 and win 06:37:10 after the police refused to watch his house, too 06:37:28 have you ever read "a nation of cowards" ? 06:37:28 crazy country 06:37:31 no 06:37:47 the police arent ther to guard your body - not even in this country 06:37:57 they are there to arrest the guy for killing you 06:37:57 not defend you 06:38:01 remind me that in USSR, criminals were called "socially near" by the communist in power 06:38:08 do a web search for "nation of cowards" 06:38:08 read it 06:38:17 whereas honest citizens were "counter-revolutionaries" 06:38:19 its an education 06:38:31 after englaned took all the guns away their crime rate went balistic 06:38:43 to such a degree that the POLICE now carry guns in england 06:39:13 and in england the last person you want to meet is a cop with a gun 06:39:27 they arent raised with guns 06:39:52 give an english cop a gun and he wants to be a cowboy 06:39:52 itchy trigger finters 06:40:01 uhoh 06:40:07 my dad has a bumper sticker that reads 06:40:14 i have many lucky numbers 06:40:23 45, 357, 9, etc etc etc 06:40:30 but 911 is NOT one of them 06:40:46 :) 06:41:00 i had a truck tailgating me on the freeway once here 06:41:00 he was like 2 inches from my bumper 06:41:09 i was doing 80 to try keep my distance from him 06:41:19 dialed 911 06:41:19 tried channel 9 on cb 06:41:28 nobody would assist 06:41:40 if i hadnt been close to home i would have put 2 45 slugs into that trucks radiator 06:41:53 right through my rear winscreen if need be 06:42:14 then i would have pulled over and made a citizens arrest 06:42:25 or shot the fucking cunt if he had a gun himself 06:42:45 i consider his truck to be a far more dangerous weapon than my 45 06:42:57 neway 06:43:00 back to isforth 06:43:08 why is this fucking sob sigsegv'ing 06:43:14 grrr 06:43:23 what had being close to home do with it? 06:43:25 all im doing is assembling to two different sections 06:43:36 all header info goes into one section 06:43:36 all code goes into another 06:43:45 actually not much 06:43:51 is the code loaded at right place? 06:43:52 cept i was tired and just wanted to go to bed 06:43:56 yes 06:44:08 its exactlywhere nasm always puts it 06:44:13 what's the last thing done right before it goes sigsegv? 06:44:16 if i go with teh seperate head space - it works 06:44:38 what's wrong with sperate head space? 06:44:45 _start: 06:44:52 pop ebx 06:44:52 dec ebx 06:45:06 pop dword [arg0+5] segv 06:45:17 i dont know 06:45:17 i want seperate head space so i can turnkey 06:45:30 headers are only needed in order to compile 06:45:40 compiled code doesnt need the headers 06:46:04 actually, i only get a segv ther if i SINGLE step using ald 06:46:15 ald? 06:46:19 so the actual problem might be elsewhere 06:47:06 if i run it in gdb it segv's in "count" 06:47:18 ald - assembly level debugger 06:47:18 its under devel still 06:47:18 not that good 06:47:18 actually 06:47:29 its crap 06:47:42 worse than gdb - but unlike gdb has potential 06:47:54 gdb is a pile of shit 06:48:03 absolutely the worst debugger i have ever had to use 06:48:21 and that inclues some of those nec in circuit emulators ive had to use 06:49:43 what i hate most about gdb is that it refuses to remember my preferences 06:49:43 every time i run it i have to do 06:49:58 set disassembly-flavor-rediculously-long-option-names inetl 06:50:02 disply /i $pc 06:50:17 and theres NO fucking option to display registers after ever single step 06:50:27 and i cant dump a specific address in any sane fassion 06:50:40 nor can i get a REAL fucking dump of the stack 06:50:44 its a pile of shit 06:50:50 i hate it more and more every day 06:51:48 if i run ./isforth - it segv's immediatly 06:52:31 if i run gdb i can get thru init and it craps out later - somewhere in "count" 06:52:31 so debugging with gdb is unreliable 06:53:25 where can i get a list of all ansi escape codes ? 06:54:10 /etc/termcap? 06:54:24 terminfo database? 06:54:40 linux or bsd or xterm source? 06:54:57 erm debian doesnt use /etc/termcap i dont think 06:55:04 not xterm 06:55:11 term 06:55:58 and /etc/terminfo/a/ansi is a binary file 06:56:09 the *sources* for terminfo 06:57:06 erm - i dont think i would like to have to read those. 06:57:06 reading other peoples c scratchings is next to impossible 06:57:20 the way most people write c - its write only 06:58:16 fuck - im single stepping thru isforth using gdb and the fucking thing gets all the way into quit 06:58:23 and interpret 06:58:43 but if i run ./isforth it segv's immediatly :( 06:58:43 doesnt even get as far as hello 06:59:21 ok guys - u can all use isforth - but you have to load it into gdb and run it in single step mode now 06:59:31 thats the only way it works :P 06:59:42 I440r: 1) introduce single-step instructions 2) write macros for gdb 06:59:56 3) modify isforth so that it inserts debugging code 07:00:47 gdb has like 289745697824926495436 totally undoccumented bullshit nobody real would ever use this option options 07:01:01 u think im going to learn to write macros for a monster like that ? 07:01:21 i440r: use strace to trace isforth and insert dummy system calls all the way, to see where it dies 07:01:26 thers a simple bug in isforth - all i need to do is find it 07:01:45 strace 07:01:57 aha 07:01:57 let me try that 07:02:41 ugh how do i run strace 07:02:54 man strace says 07:02:54 do 07:02:54 strace ./isforth -ooutfile 07:03:03 i do that and i get no output file 07:03:35 oh 07:03:44 erm 07:03:44 ok 07:03:52 whats a good "dummy" syscall ? 07:04:11 strace -o outfile ./isforth 07:04:34 like a call to write(2,...) 07:05:34 or setuid(number) 07:05:47 ok well it segfaults before it even gets to initconsole 07:05:59 one of the first things it does 07:05:59 thats in init 07:06:11 im going to assume im segfaulting on instruction3 07:06:24 as thats where ald says it segfaults if i single step 07:06:41 pop ebx ; get argc 07:06:49 dec ebx ; dont count arg0 07:07:14 pop dword [arg0 +5] ; get address of arg0 - store in body of a variable 07:07:25 so 07:07:32 arg0 is not writeable 07:07:33 is the adress mapped? 07:07:41 yet ALL my sections are read write execute 07:07:44 ALL of them 07:07:48 mapped ? 07:07:57 its part of the body of the code 07:08:00 mapped, writeable, et. 07:08:09 it SHOULD be writeable 07:08:20 all my sections are read/write/execute 07:08:25 maybe the dynloader doesn't head writeable flags for the code segment? 07:08:33 and this code works when head space and code space are interleaved 07:08:37 did you try writing code in another data segment? 07:08:56 there is not "other" data seg 07:09:08 just you create one! 07:09:11 and this code WORKS - with non sepreate head space 07:09:25 .data 1 07:09:27 .data 2 07:09:31 .data 3 07:10:07 i should be able to have ONE section 07:10:11 .text read execute 07:10:29 i have .text, .data, .bss and .headers 07:10:38 i see no point in the .data at all 07:10:40 use severa subsegments in .data and be done 07:10:55 don't use .text at all 07:10:59 subsegments ? 07:11:11 .data 1, .data 2, etc 07:11:39 i would rather NOT have anything other than .data .bss and .headers 07:12:06 it segv's on the THIRD fucking instrucion!!!!!!!!!!1 07:12:21 and ALL fucking sections are writeable 07:12:23 ALL of them 07:12:39 you think it is - does the loader agree? 07:12:55 is the stack setup as you think it is? 07:13:13 can the code be dowaloaded? 07:13:22 hang on 07:13:57 the last working version is on my ftp (dns me) in /pub - its the feb03 tgz 07:14:06 ill tgz THIS version and put it there too 07:15:35 hey, I met hofstadter a few days ago 07:15:44 hofstadter ? 07:15:50 can't you find a job in indiana u? 07:15:52 i put the broken one in /pub too 07:15:58 havent tried 07:16:10 but i doubt they will pay me anything more than $8 per hour 07:16:18 as a consultant i earn 50 to 70 per hour 07:16:29 and if im not making that 07:16:32 ill lose this house 07:16:41 which will fucking suck 07:16:55 hum 07:17:19 the feb03 tgz has nasm 98e in there - u need that version (tho u proly already have it eh) 07:17:22 and the "Broken" one is just the sources 07:17:52 theres a contract my recruitor has heard about in phoenix az thats unix forth based!!! 07:19:49 71% complete - sorry about the download speed :) 07:21:33 that file is in a "working" state. thers some things that need changing in there - but ill deal with them when i get some other stuff working... like seperate head space and fload etc heh 07:21:42 we have key but no key? 07:21:51 key is non blocking and doesnt expect a 0x0a 07:22:09 im going to write hey? to use poll and key will do a begin key? until 07:22:24 write KEY? even heh 07:22:44 but the way things are right now is useable. wrong but uesable heh 07:23:50 the 03 tgz has nasm98e in there - but thats the official unofficial nasm heh 07:24:39 get CodingStyle too hehe 07:25:04 its my parody of the linux coding style doc in /usr/src/linux/Doccumentation heh 07:34:53 i did something 07:35:05 i put section .text 07:35:13 did teh first instrucion (pop ebx) 07:35:20 then immediatly did section .data 07:35:46 it doesnt work :P 07:35:52 u execute the first instruction 07:36:03 I hoped it would be coding style for Forth :) 07:36:04 then you are executing some other shit - ive no idea what 07:36:14 no - tho i AM going to do that too 07:38:26 linus has seen that btw :) 07:39:26 objdump -x isforth tells me the tet segment is not writable 07:39:55 text seg fucking better be 07:39:59 how come it isnt 07:40:03 how do i make it writeable 07:40:11 section .text read/write ? 07:40:21 ive put read write executable 07:40:28 write execute 07:40:42 dunno what you put - objdump -x knows what the file is like 07:41:18 next time, check with objdump -x 07:41:33 i dont have objdump 07:41:39 however 07:41:52 the only code thats in section text is the first few lines 07:42:04 everything else is in .data or .bss or - .header too now 07:42:18 are any of those read/write execute ? 07:42:30 if they are read/write they are executable too 07:43:23 gdb wont allow me to do disassemble 0x080addressgoeshere 07:43:26 it says 07:43:30 symbol does not exist 07:43:38 fucking STUPID fuclking pile of fucking SHIT 07:43:41 objdump is part of the gnu binutils -- you better have it 07:44:01 i do! 07:44:02 hehe 07:44:10 text is 0x15ef bytes long 07:44:50 depends on where i had the section .data 07:44:57 ive been moving it arround to experriment 07:45:30 x/20i 0x08048080 07:46:38 thats _start 07:48:08 oh, good morning *YAWN* 07:48:18 hi mrreach 07:53:48 i might have to assemble to a binary file and include the elf header at the start 07:54:23 use 3 secions max. text (or data) bss and headers 07:55:17 if im reading this rigth objdump is telling me i have a 21 byte .data section 07:55:19 ! 07:55:21 wtf 07:57:50 its putting EVERYTING in .text 07:58:01 even tho i switched into .data 07:58:48 its not putting a fucking thing in .data 07:58:55 if im reading this right that is 07:59:14 i know why! 07:59:17 brb 07:59:47 i fixed it :) 07:59:52 almost 08:00:08 it seffaults if i try run anything but it gets through init now 08:00:16 and into quit/interpret 08:00:33 my "header" macro first switches into .header section 08:00:35 compiles the header 08:00:48 then switched to .text (wrong) 08:00:53 i changed that to a .data 08:01:37 so now all i gotta do is find wich word it is that doesnt like seperate head/code space (still expects the old format :) 08:01:48 fuck. i KNEW this should work :P 08:02:30 even if i specify read write and executable for the text secoon - nasm wont allow it 08:02:31 grrr 08:02:33 fucking assholes 08:07:17 gosh, I'm tempted to write a metacompiler that writes .EXEs directly, just to show you it can be done 08:07:36 it should take about 2 weeks for minimal kernel 08:08:48 .exe's ? 08:08:58 u mean widnows exe's or elf exe's 08:09:05 chmod a+rx 08:09:18 both, actually, they're nearly identicle 08:09:23 i said NASM wouldnt allow it 08:09:23 im sure that if the elf header had a writeable text section 08:09:23 it would work 08:09:38 hehehe 08:09:38 yea 08:09:51 that what i need to do to ALL my memory :) 08:10:21 no, I meant write the ELF file manually, from start to finish, in the metacompiler 08:10:28 even tho ive specified a readable and writeable text section (which is automatically executable) its read execte only 08:10:28 no write 08:10:39 OPEN-FILE ... CLOSE-FILE 08:11:03 gdb wont allow me to do a dump of memory grrr 08:11:07 oh, sorry, didn't realize you were talking about your current prob 08:11:34 when isforth is ready for it. the saveexe function needs only write a valid elf header 08:11:44 and then write an exact duplicate of all my memory 08:11:56 im sure that will work 08:12:07 that would be turnkey tho 08:12:15 yep, enumerate the current segments, dump them into the ELF ... then patch the counts and offsets in the ELF 08:12:20 would need to write a seperate section to perserve headers 08:12:34 turnkey will be easier :) 08:12:46