00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.02.03
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08:38:10 <Speuler> hi bots
08:38:27 <Speuler> hello MrGone !
08:42:40 <Speuler> i gonna tell you about my current pet project when i'm back ...
08:54:47 <Speuler> a forth with 4...6 primitives :)
08:54:58 <Speuler> ttyl
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13:26:32 --- nick: MrGone -> Mr
13:26:36 --- nick: Mr -> MrReach
13:26:39 <MrReach> hihi
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14:24:08 <Speuler> g'day
15:39:27 <MrReach> hihi
15:48:31 <Speuler> hi
15:48:48 <MrReach> how's the struggle?
15:49:07 <Speuler> we'll kick'm
15:49:22 <MrReach> heh, sooner or later, eh?
15:49:56 <Speuler> you've been busy lately ?
15:50:02 <MrReach> what is the advantage in emulating a Touring machine?
15:50:12 <MrReach> yes and no
15:50:26 <Speuler> advantage compared to what ?
15:50:31 <MrReach> not terribly busy, but not focused on forth, either
15:50:50 <MrReach> you're the one who seems to be doing it, I thought you'd tell me
15:51:25 <Speuler> what's the advantage of using sand ?
15:51:42 <MrReach> haha!! not sand when you finish with it
15:51:59 <Speuler> or, ftm, molecules
15:52:32 <MrReach> basically, sand is what we've got, like it or not
15:52:41 <MrReach> arg! there's an idea ...
15:53:22 <MrReach> nanobots who's purpose is to convert every molecule of silicon into part of a computer IC, big or small
15:53:33 <Speuler> detonate a fusion bomb in the desert, and build a supercomputer around the crater
15:53:42 <MrReach> need a microcontroller? go shovel one out of the back yard and hook some leads to it
15:54:53 <Speuler> keep the bots standby in case of repair ?
15:55:36 <MrReach> let them turn one type of sand into another
15:55:47 <Speuler> going on their continous mission to poop some Si atoms on weakening spots
15:56:07 <Speuler> send the doting troup after
15:56:31 <MrReach> Judy, my wife, says "hi! I'd *LOVE* to go to Germany"
15:56:51 <Speuler> so do i
15:57:03 <Speuler> next week, maybe
15:57:17 <MrReach> should not bother the plants too much, either, root growth would be about the same
15:57:20 <Speuler> pork ans knoedel again :)
15:57:26 <MrReach> heh
15:57:59 <Speuler> food is different in NL
15:58:11 <MrReach> but then, some idiot is bound to come along and figure out a way to make all these little computers into a self-aware network
15:59:10 <Speuler> t'is pretty warm for this part of the year here
15:59:21 <MrReach> it's snowing like crazy here
15:59:42 <Speuler> haven't seen snow for > 1 month now
15:59:43 <MrReach> enough to stop our planned road trip, but not so much it won't all thaw this week
16:00:23 <Speuler> last snow was on the way to the netherlands. heavy, thick, traffic affecting
16:00:49 <Speuler> but i did choose a good moment to come over
16:01:12 <Speuler> the other days were worse
16:01:16 <MrReach> heh
16:13:10 <I440r> boongo!!!
16:13:15 <I440r> mrreach!!!
16:13:18 <I440r> :)
16:13:21 <MrReach> huh? yeah?
16:13:28 <I440r> isforth is starting to realy look good :)
16:13:31 <Speuler> another human here !
16:13:32 <I440r> gotta get fload working
16:13:35 * MrReach offers I440r another beer for his enthusiasm.
16:13:38 <Speuler> this # is bot infested
16:13:41 <I440r> and i realy need a assembler now
16:13:45 <I440r> hehe
16:13:47 <Speuler> has there been a takeover ?
16:13:56 <I440r> not entirely heh
16:14:15 <I440r> u wanna check out a "working" version of isforth ?
16:14:23 <I440r> create does>  all that shit :)
16:14:34 <I440r> no if/then but do loops are in'
16:14:38 <I440r> no fload either
16:14:40 <I440r> yert
16:14:44 <I440r> yet
16:14:46 <I440r> thats next
16:14:58 <Speuler> x support ?
16:15:03 <Speuler> *duck and cover*
16:15:14 <I440r> not yet
16:15:15 <Speuler> hehe
16:15:18 <I440r> thats planned :)
16:15:50 <I440r> the terminal code was done by tcn when he did the syscalls eetc
16:16:11 <I440r> ive been working on it for about a week now and have undone some of the stuff he did wrong :)
16:16:18 <I440r> without breaking the parts he did right heh
16:17:19 <I440r> dns me and ftp into /pub and get feb03 tgz for isforth
16:17:36 <I440r> i need an assember :(
16:20:04 <I440r> and i need someone to sort out the freebsd include file - tcn is afk - like i was heh
16:20:54 <MrReach> he wrote on freebsd while you wrote on linux???
16:21:03 <I440r> he got the syscalls working
16:21:07 <I440r> his key was blocking tho
16:21:12 <I440r> and nwanted a CR at the end
16:21:14 <I440r> i fixed that
16:21:30 <I440r> i tidied up all the sources and the make file(s) etc
16:22:06 <I440r> my next task is to totally rewrite query, expect and interpret and the compilation loops
16:22:10 --- nick: MrReach -> MrGone
16:22:19 <I440r> i dont like compile and interpret to be seperate loops
16:22:31 <I440r> interpret should do the interpreting AND the compiling imho
16:22:38 <Speuler> 711 kbyte ??
16:22:50 <Speuler> does it come with an os ?
16:22:52 <I440r> hehe i included the required version of nasm
16:23:22 <I440r> i shud prolly take that out of there tho
16:24:29 <Speuler> 768 b/s :(
16:24:40 <Speuler> ah. 1.3 kb ...
16:27:29 <Speuler> error: Timeout on server ...bloomington 
16:27:41 <Speuler> I440r: you're alive ?
16:27:55 <I440r> er
16:28:01 <I440r> ya
16:28:11 <I440r> yea
16:28:16 <I440r> i can ping stuff and talk to u heh
16:28:46 <I440r> i think my isp is having problems because i keep craping out when i apt-get update/upgrade too
16:28:48 <I440r> try again
16:28:57 <I440r> does my ftp support resuming ?
16:30:01 <I440r> im on the worlds worst dial in :(
16:30:08 <I440r> i miss my dsl!
16:30:16 <Speuler> works again now
16:31:05 <I440r> my modem lights are hardly moving u getting 0.000000000000001 byte per hour like i usually do ?
16:31:19 <I440r> ok i see activity now ehhe
16:31:22 <I440r> its sputters :P
16:31:27 <I440r> spLutters
16:31:33 <Speuler> date coming in right now
16:31:36 <Speuler> data
16:31:41 <I440r> ya
16:31:45 <Speuler> opened a jpg
16:31:55 <I440r> jpg ?
16:31:58 <I440r> of my guns ?
16:32:09 <Speuler> ftp://1Cust42.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net/ccm00025.jpg
16:32:10 <I440r> the small one is a 32 savage made in 1919
16:32:20 <I440r> my dad has one almost identical to it made in 1907 :)
16:32:25 <I440r> his is nicer :P
16:32:42 <I440r> the big one is my kimber 1911 i think heh
16:33:07 <I440r> did u get isforth ?
16:33:22 <Speuler> i .. think so
16:33:27 <I440r> cool!
16:33:49 <Speuler> looks like file is ok
16:33:57 <Speuler> can open, and look at contents
16:34:03 <I440r> :)
16:34:13 <Speuler> unpack a file works too
16:34:47 <I440r> ull notice that quit interpret query etc - are just ALL WRONG!!!! grrr hehe
16:34:50 <I440r> and word
16:35:03 <I440r> tcn's definition for word doesnt copy the string to here
16:35:29 <I440r> and if he reaches the end of input he does a r>drop to break out of the infinite loop of its caller,,,,
16:36:05 <I440r> which MIGHT not be an infinite loop - just because his interpret words and compile words are infinite loops doesnt mean MY apps are the same
16:36:08 <I440r> plus
16:36:21 <I440r> if i do .... >r bl word ....
16:36:36 <I440r> but if we ignore that for now - his code works :)
16:36:43 --- nick: MrGone -> MrReach
16:36:47 <I440r> so u have a working forth there - just not complete
16:37:10 <I440r> how hard woud it be to do an assembler that allowed mov ax, 5 and mov ax, [5] etc
16:37:17 <I440r> instead of 5 # ax mov
16:37:34 <I440r> i would LOVE it if the assembler could correctly assemble
16:37:50 <I440r>  mov ax,variablename >body
16:38:09 <I440r> or mov ax,[eax+8*ebp]
16:38:09 <Speuler> : mov_ax,5   $op c, 5 c,   ;   
16:38:14 <Speuler> hehe
16:38:20 <I440r> hehehe
16:38:36 <I440r> u would need a gazilluon definitions just like that one :P
16:39:20 <Speuler> mov_ax 5 c,
16:39:25 <I440r> i would like isforth to be able to compile the existing sources with the MINIMUM of modification to said sources
16:39:59 <Speuler> minimum=0
16:40:02 <MrReach> HA!
16:40:08 <I440r> oh mrreach i was thinking about that "postpone" word
16:40:16 <I440r> that woudl work for me bongo :)
16:40:21 <MrReach> you'll still have to convert all the colon defs to forth syntax
16:40:31 <MrReach> oh? really?
16:40:50 <I440r> i think isforth will go with compile and [compile]
16:41:01 <MrReach> oh, of course
16:41:21 <MrReach> those are both still in the standard, but deprecated for future work
16:41:42 <Speuler> there's an isolated ";" in compile.1
16:41:43 <I440r> well heres what ive put in my sources as a comment on compile
16:42:01 <I440r> this word and [compile] have become a bit of an issue in the forth community.  compile
16:42:07 <Speuler> without some kind of overloading ; it would be difficult to achieve meta-assembly
16:42:10 <MrReach> want some advice on how to get your kernel going?
16:42:12 <I440r> is use to compile ordinary words into your current definition and
16:42:41 <I440r> [compile] is used to compile immediat words.  without the use of [compile] those immediat words would viciously execute instead!
16:42:57 <MrReach> heh, that's true
16:42:59 <I440r> the precieved problem with this is that you as the programmer wouled need to know every single
16:43:28 <I440r> immediat word in the entier dictionary in order to know which of the above to use.  in order to solve this huge non problem a new word has been invented
16:43:54 <I440r> that will compile any word immediate or otherwise, thus releaving you of the responsability of knowing the language you are programming in
16:44:18 <I440r> like all good ans words this aforementioned new word has a name that totally fails to describe its function
16:44:27 <MrReach> also, most forths have a word similar to "IMM?" ( adr -- flg ) ... so you can do ' WORD IMM? .
16:44:34 <Speuler> i find it a nuisance that  : mynip  compile swap compile drop ;  immediate  behaves different than  : mynip swap drop  ;
16:44:35 <I440r> "postpone"    will probably remain undefined in isforth
16:44:49 <Speuler> when using it in the context of   : foo   compile mynip  ;
16:45:00 <Speuler> depending on compile implementation
16:45:10 <Speuler> or, ' mynip execute, for that matter
16:45:18 <MrReach> "postpone the compilation of the next word" ... don't tell me the name is not relavent
16:45:51 <I440r> it does not convey the function of the word in a forth like manner
16:46:01 <I440r> compile and [compile] do
16:46:08 <MrReach> POSTPONE IF
16:46:08 <Speuler> i don't like the need to know whether a word is immediate or not
16:46:14 <I440r> they perfectly describe what will happen at executon time
16:46:30 <I440r> speuler i consider that bad programming practices
16:46:38 <I440r> its lile in c - you dont need to know this shit
16:46:44 <I440r> let the compiler worry about it for you
16:46:49 <I440r> thats one of the flaws in the c language
16:46:56 <I440r> the compiler assunes you are an idiot
16:47:05 <I440r> and 99 * out of 100 it is correct
16:47:06 <MrReach> very well, I understand that are bothered by the postpone/compile/[compile] issue
16:47:15 <I440r> well
16:47:17 <Speuler> if i can choose to implement a word this way or the other,
16:47:19 <I440r> i gave it serious thought
16:47:34 <I440r> i have NO objections to "postpone" being added later :)
16:47:37 <Speuler> i wouldn't like to have to hardcode word type in other places of the source
16:47:44 <I440r> but it will be an extention 
16:47:44 <MrReach> heh, I thought "postpone" to be a rather elegant name
16:48:21 <MrReach> in any case, perhaps compile> would be a good name to you for immediate-insensitive compilation
16:48:22 <I440r> but at run time the compilation isnt postponed
16:48:28 <I440r> its a bad name in my opinion
16:48:41 <I440r> its like taking away the need to understand compile time and run time actions too
16:48:42 --- join: aaronl_ (~aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth
16:48:53 <I440r> btw bongo
16:49:00 <I440r> meet the ruler of #forth :)
16:49:04 <I440r> hi aaronl_
16:49:09 <Speuler> but a i don't see an easy solution for that, i tend to dislike immediate words
16:49:12 <aaronl_> hello
16:49:26 <Speuler> hi aaronl_
16:49:44 <I440r> i think immediate words is a very clever idea
16:49:50 <I440r> like most of the original forth ideas
16:50:05 --- nick: aaronl_ -> aaronl
16:50:06 <Speuler> it is a hack
16:50:12 <MrReach> it is a hack
16:50:13 <I440r> not realy
16:50:14 <I440r> heh
16:50:15 <MrReach> HAHA!
16:50:24 <MrReach> both typing the same thing
16:50:26 <I440r> it works very nicely
16:50:41 <MrReach> actually, Moore must have had pasta for brains
16:50:54 <MrReach> because he intrinsically thinks in spagetti
16:51:01 <I440r> actually i think chuckie has some very bad coding habits
16:51:12 <I440r> like if;s in one definition and then's in another
16:51:21 <I440r> neat trick - bad style
16:51:41 <I440r> isforthg wont do it - but isforth also wont check if's and elses etc hehe
16:51:42 <Speuler> same for begin and until
16:51:45 <MrReach> I'll tell you what, though, if you can get him interested in a problem, he'll produce outstanding solutions
16:51:48 <I440r> soo you could do it in the apps :)
16:51:57 <I440r> i know
16:52:03 <I440r> he is the great problem solver
16:52:11 <I440r> pure genius
16:52:21 <MrReach> but difficult to follow
16:52:37 <MrReach> his language tends to reflect that
16:52:38 <I440r> not if you learn to think the way he does
16:52:52 <I440r> thats his great skill is "thinking different"
16:52:58 <MrReach> I have a friend who is bipolor
16:53:03 <Speuler> what ? not a single channel showing star trek now ?
16:53:12 <MrReach> she comes up with excellent solutions
16:53:27 <MrReach> but there is not way in hell that I want to think like her
16:53:42 <MrReach> it is her blessing and her curse
16:53:43 <I440r> is she cutensexy and single ?????
16:53:46 <I440r> send her my way :)
16:54:06 <MrReach> I440r: do you often date mentally disabled people?
16:54:19 <I440r> hehe depends on how sexy they are :P
16:54:25 <I440r> u think I and sane ????
16:54:26 <I440r> hehehe
16:54:29 * MrReach grins behind his hand.
16:54:50 <I440r> im almost sane
16:54:53 <I440r> *twitch*
16:55:04 <MrReach> she is older, was very sexy, but her health has deteriorated badly
16:55:20 <I440r> dang :P
16:55:37 <I440r> ok - any other possabilities ????/ :) lie too them for me - thell them im rich!!!!
16:55:38 <I440r> hehe
16:55:39 <MrReach> have to be a bit careful, she's likely to pull a gun on you if you are at all too agressive
16:55:54 <I440r> well. if she does that - ill just shoot her
16:55:57 <I440r> kerbanga
16:56:05 <MrReach> heh, lie to her yourself, I'm not about to
16:56:24 <I440r> and i practice with mine - i can hit within 4 inches with my 45 at 30 yards
16:56:39 <I440r> which i could improve on
16:56:44 <I440r> if i practiced more :P
16:56:53 <MrReach> I find it pretty disgusting that you're talking about shooting a friend of mine
16:57:05 <I440r> hehe
16:57:08 <MrReach> and bragging that you're a better shot
16:57:12 <I440r> u were talking bout her shooting me :P
16:57:29 <MrReach> no, I said one has to be wary
16:57:38 <I440r> bongo u browsing isforth ?
16:58:00 <Speuler> not right now
16:58:01 <I440r> mrreach the ONLY time i would bring my firearm into play is if my life was definatly under threat
16:58:49 <I440r> anyone know how to fix a laptop battery so it lasts more than15 mins ?
16:59:05 <Speuler> I440r: i may have a link for you:
16:59:22 <MrReach> replace it
16:59:44 <I440r> cant afford to - havent had a job in 6 months
16:59:52 <MrReach> many laptop batteries use standard battery types inside the case, AA AAA C etc
16:59:54 <I440r> theres a unix forth job in phoenix arizona tho
17:00:17 <I440r> this laptop has an inteligent battery
17:00:28 <I440r> the battery has a microcontroller built in
17:00:38 <Speuler> http://www.smartfuelcell.de/de/index.html
17:00:38 <Speuler>  
17:00:55 <I440r> looking....
17:01:35 <Speuler> they started mass production pilot a few days ago
17:01:48 <I440r> i had to change dodoes :(
17:02:03 <I440r> dodoes cant be common with nest when u cache stack
17:02:20 <Speuler> i seem to remember ...
17:02:28 <Speuler> nip instead of drop 
17:02:35 <Speuler> somewhere
17:02:46 <I440r> this site is in german
17:03:05 <Speuler> there's a button top right. it says "English". press it
17:03:34 <I440r> aha hehe - my browser was clipping that part :)
17:04:11 <Speuler> it consumes 'bout 1 liter ethanol per kw/h
17:04:18 <Speuler> sorry ... methanol
17:06:22 <I440r> ugh - now u gotta go to the gas station to fill up your laptop :P
17:06:25 <I440r> heheh
17:06:36 <Speuler> or about 200 million mips per gallon
17:06:51 --- mode: I440r set mode: -o I440r
17:07:11 <Speuler> 200 million mipg
17:07:17 <MrReach> finally!!! I think I've found an outdrive for my boat!
17:07:55 <MrReach> hurrah! I've been looking for over a year!
17:08:44 <Speuler> electrically driven boat ?
17:09:16 <MrReach> no, 140 cubic inch mercruiser inboard/outboard
17:09:25 <Speuler> ah
17:09:31 <MrReach> erm ... or is it 160?
17:09:54 <Speuler> that's an estimated 1800 cc
17:10:19 <Speuler> like, 1andahalf times the volume of a big motor bike ?
17:10:50 <MrReach> yes ... good size for water skiing
17:19:17 <I440r> brb need coffee
17:23:29 <MrReach> the problem is, the boat is in Florida ... 3,003 miles away (50 hrs driving time)
17:24:25 <Speuler> ai
17:24:35 <Speuler> a week
17:24:48 <I440r> why u leave it there ??? heh
17:24:53 <MrReach> 2 days if I have a driving buddy
17:24:58 <MrReach> HAHAHA!
17:25:05 <I440r> 3000 miles isnt a weeks driving
17:25:16 <MrReach> only if you're looking around
17:25:27 <I440r> i did 5000 in 3 days
17:25:27 <I440r> aha hehe
17:25:38 <MrReach> the prob is ... they're selling the whole boat for $500
17:25:52 <MrReach> I only need the outdrive
17:25:56 <Speuler> didn't you need to return after that ?
17:26:08 <Speuler> another 3 days ...
17:26:23 <MrReach> maybe they'd be willing to dismount the outdrive and ship it to me for $500 + shipping
17:26:42 <MrReach> I can't find a rebuilt outdrive for any less than $1300
17:27:40 <MrReach> even with my gigantic truck getting me 14 MPG, it'll only cost me $454 in fuel
17:27:53 <MrReach> and I get to go to Florida during the winter as a bonus
17:29:07 <MrReach> well hell, what happens if the boat is seaworthy and in much better shape than the boat i'm trying to repair???
17:31:26 <Speuler> you feed it into your nanotech-replicator ?
18:05:55 <I440r> hmmm if i made my stdin non blocking - what would a call to sysread on it return if no keys were available ?
19:01:34 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:02:52 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust42.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth
19:37:13 <I440r> well that was fun
19:37:14 <I440r> heh
20:02:47 <I440r> nite nite
20:02:49 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again")
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.02.03