00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.01.30 00:00:10 I have a red window, with some text at the bottom and nothing inbetween 00:00:25 yes 00:00:33 scroll down? 00:00:41 oic 00:00:44 heh 00:00:48 it even says scroll down on it :) 00:00:53 doesn't here 00:00:56 i've been playing around with machine code on my 486 for weeks 00:01:01 cool koft 00:01:11 what browser do you use 00:01:11 I suggest you remove the confusing space 00:01:26 communicator/linux 00:01:32 4.x? 00:01:35 4.75 00:01:37 yeah, I haven't checked it in 4.x 00:01:44 that has iffy css support 00:01:53 * ajkroll][ nods 00:02:03 forget css 00:02:06 I just threw these up 00:02:06 it's crap ;-) 00:02:10 css is great 00:02:13 for presentation 00:02:18 browsers can be crap though :) 00:02:56 it works in textual browsers and all the major browsers 00:03:03 so that is fine enough for me 00:03:06 ever seen my pages? 00:03:21 yeah 00:03:23 mine work with every single browser 00:03:24 the one you just gave me 00:03:34 I use to do every browser sites 00:03:36 check this commercial site I wrote 00:03:41 www.rhqc.com 00:03:50 but since I am using published standards by the w3c 00:04:01 I don't feel bad if a browser screwed up in rendering because of improper support 00:04:04 and yes, we are using our own certificates 00:04:36 eh, why ssl? 00:04:44 that won't work in every browser :) 00:04:51 was easier to make the entire site ssl 00:05:02 heh 00:05:12 that is going to lock out a lot of textual browsers 00:05:22 and any browser that doesn't support ssl 00:05:29 we usedto have an * certificate till verisign started eating everyone and charging outragious prices 00:05:40 yeah no crap 00:05:43 prices are enormous 00:05:45 and you can get ssl lynx 00:05:49 you can 00:05:52 yes 00:05:55 but it isn't very popular 00:05:58 nope 00:06:03 but it is available 00:06:04 most systems with text browsers have very old versions 00:06:06 heh 00:06:10 so is mozilla and ie :) 00:06:25 which render dist.org perfectly 00:06:30 identically 00:06:42 that is what is great about css 00:06:56 you can have it render perfectly yet still give people choice on what they want it rendered like 00:07:02 they can use their own custom css scripts 00:07:11 less is better 00:07:12 or you can also offer multiple css 00:07:21 and one day, you'll realize that less is better 00:07:26 I know less is better 00:07:31 my pages are 3.5k in size 00:07:40 and mine? 00:07:50 5.186 00:07:54 html 00:07:57 and then images 00:08:02 now consider the amount presented 00:08:05 :-) 00:08:10 much less on the front page 00:08:17 at least on rolling hills 00:08:20 * ajkroll][ nods 00:08:24 check dr.ea.ms 00:08:32 once it's in the inside page that is 00:08:56 4.5 + images 00:09:07 and lots to offer 00:09:07 and still less text heh 00:09:12 nope 00:09:16 lots of text there 00:09:20 less than dist.org 00:09:21 piles of links too 00:09:32 I am merely supporting CSS 00:09:38 it will look fine on any browser too 00:09:39 since it is an open standard 00:09:46 I completely believe in any browser rendering 00:09:52 that is why I use css instead of tables 00:10:04 since css is 100% backwards compatible 00:10:05 tables tend to work well tho 00:10:29 I know tables 100% 00:10:44 I did the table code for a massive site 00:10:46 heavy graphics 00:10:49 yup 00:11:01 and several other sites 00:11:07 been doing html for years =( 00:11:14 tables are extrememly handy to force size of the window 00:11:18 I always have to have everything perfect 00:11:23 well, CSS is much better 00:11:26 without doing stupid shit like java resize 00:11:34 java resize code totally pisses me off 00:11:36 one line of CSS code can do what fifty lines of table code would ordinarily do 00:11:41 damn, been a while since i saw some vic-20 stuff 00:11:55 koft: really now :-) 00:12:09 koft: I use one of my vic's to burn eproms 00:12:11 :-) 00:12:15 and your page just about put a hole in my subwoofer 00:12:17 much more eloquent 00:12:23 hahah koft 00:12:24 yeah 00:12:27 inline sound :) 00:12:29 no no 00:12:38 which page? 00:12:43 the hardware one 00:12:46 http://dr.ea.ms/hardware.html 00:12:49 it even plays on load 00:12:51 oh, with inspector gadget 00:13:00 yes yes :-) 00:13:11 www.whispercanyonsoaps.com 00:13:16 that is another site I am working on 00:13:31 i remember poking metal objects into the cart slot as a child, and watching the cool trippy patterns on the tv set 00:13:54 koft: great way to blow it up too 00:13:59 heh 00:14:12 I got shocked to hell and back once from the earphone plug on a 12" tv 00:14:20 i blew it i[ when i was 9 and fixed it back up when i was 13 00:14:33 blew the amp on it 00:14:34 * ajkroll][ nods 00:14:50 I have several hacked CMB equiptments 00:14:54 tvs with earplugs = dangerous 00:15:04 vic's, 64's, 128's 128D and a PET 2000 00:15:08 :-) 00:15:24 there's a broken plus/4 someplace here too 00:16:00 2 things I need to aquire yet tho 00:16:06 an amiga and an apple//gs 00:16:20 i remember piggybacking ram chips on my a1000 00:16:28 my old //e just isn't being nice l8ly 00:16:29 i miss that computer 00:17:15 i should get my ass in gear and reburn the mousetext rom for it too 00:17:21 rofl, 32mb sims on a vic20 00:17:25 err 32pin 00:17:36 30pin simms are for the c64/128's 00:17:48 that's a hacked 1750REU 00:17:53 which is a rare item 00:18:07 I use it mostly in cp/m mode 00:18:14 haha 00:18:18 makes a nice large ram disk for virtual memory 00:18:28 quick too 00:19:00 I still have to hack cp/m to accept my ajkdos hard disks, which will be really nice 00:19:19 and I still have to implement fast/burst on the card too 00:19:28 then it will scream 00:19:31 lol 00:20:00 you think I jest about ajkdos? 00:20:19 http://dr.ea.ms/devfin.jpg 00:20:25 that runs ajkdos 00:20:30 now that looked like fun to piece together 00:20:35 and anything else I toss at it 00:20:43 it took me only a week 00:20:48 I built it out of my head 00:20:59 does it work? 00:21:05 I recently finished the schematics 00:21:08 yes it works 00:21:17 god it is nice to get 270kB/s 00:21:23 i'm not to good at recalling pin assignments from memory 00:21:35 it's been working for the last 3 years serving .5tb of disk from my linux box to the c128/c64/vic20 00:22:46 rofl 00:22:46 http://dr.ea.ms/snowgirl/snowgirl2.jpg 00:22:54 that was my daughter's doing 00:23:00 is that a beer can? 00:23:01 :-) 00:23:03 yes 00:23:14 that was my doing 00:23:16 ;-) 00:23:23 your in canada? 00:23:26 so when do you come on irc ajk? 00:23:30 close enuff to it 00:23:30 I haven't seen you in a long time 00:23:46 ree: I normally don't pop on this network, actually 00:23:53 ohh? 00:23:54 which network 00:23:55 nope 00:23:57 i just moved from ottawa cause i got laid off 00:24:04 doh koft 00:24:06 sorry to hear that 00:24:09 usually LinuxNET and my own private network 00:24:18 your own private network? 00:24:22 yea 00:24:25 I was thinking of starting two servers 00:24:31 what ircd do you use 00:24:44 an ircd hybred + my hacks 00:24:55 no services? 00:25:09 my hacks allow true god mode for opers, like self ops, cross channel kills, etc 00:25:10 where is your server 00:25:26 my server is password protected 00:25:27 :-) 00:25:32 ohh 00:25:35 like I said, it's private 00:25:37 :-) 00:25:40 for just you? 00:25:52 just me, another node and about 8 people 00:25:56 or so 00:25:58 so how do I get access to it 00:26:09 you'd have to 00:26:24 1: have a need to communicate regularly to me or someone on it 00:26:30 2: keep it private 00:26:45 and we have enough nodes 00:26:50 2 is plenty 00:26:50 heh 00:26:54 if it is that much work 00:26:59 you ever play around with thoes forth chips? 00:27:07 I don't like secrets =) 00:27:09 koft: nope 00:27:28 ree: there's no secrets, it's just we like to keep assholes off of our network of friends 00:27:51 yeah 00:27:54 we're all very close and tight 00:28:02 we're a sub-community 00:28:11 liuke a family almost 00:28:20 yeah, I have a few people like that 00:28:27 and most of us have actually met each other in person 00:28:29 well, I'd be interested in joining 00:28:37 just for technical stuff 00:28:42 well 00:28:43 I want to get into engineering 00:28:48 but if not then fine 00:28:54 there are some, but very few tech people there 00:28:59 god it has been a long time since I've used 4.x 00:29:17 I for example am probabbl the only hardware guru there 00:29:28 there's a few coders 00:29:31 wow, 4.x barfs 00:29:33 on it 00:29:35 a few people do db 00:29:43 one guy works for lycos 00:29:53 etc 00:30:11 we're all pretty close people 00:30:31 if you really want to pick more tech minds, I reccomend linuxnet 00:30:46 hmm 00:30:52 which I frequent and have been a member of since inception 00:30:58 I'd just love to find people with similar interests 00:30:59 and yes, I am an oper there 00:31:05 :-) 00:31:19 I can't find anyone interested in ai, os dev, and organization starting =) 00:31:32 well, scratch that, I know a few cool people here 00:31:33 linuxnet #linux is the place to find minds 00:31:36 i tried to write an os 00:31:49 spent a year and ended up with shit 00:31:50 I don't really use linux 00:31:51 just be aware that alot of them can be quite rough 00:32:07 they're not indifferent to new os's or ideas 00:32:09 hah koft 00:32:13 it's all in the presentation 00:32:19 i did however make good use of my isa trident card 00:32:20 yeah, well 00:32:29 I am indifferent to general purpose systems 00:32:32 and how they are coded today 00:32:36 * ajkroll][ nods 00:32:44 lots of code in linux is utter shit 00:32:45 I don't mix well with other os hobbiest or programmers 00:32:55 the scsi subsystems aren't even maintained 00:33:07 yeah 00:33:10 and that's just one example 00:33:11 scsi is much better on freebsd 00:33:25 and that is why I use IDE, other than the cost 00:37:32 I think that today I'm going to attempt a backup... 00:37:38 it's been a long long time 00:37:57 and these hdd failures are driving me nuts 00:38:23 only big problem is, in doing so, I do lose the old backups 00:38:27 :-/ 00:38:39 * ajkroll][ looks at the spare 60g in the crash box 00:38:51 perhaps I can archive that off first 00:39:34 7.99 gigs used 00:39:57 * ajkroll][ scans arround for a free 10g disk 00:40:12 I should have something available someplace 00:41:52 damn win32 00:42:21 i never have problems with php or apache on bsd 00:42:38 and all my equipment is in ottawa 00:43:57 u ever gone to OLS? 00:44:34 no, whats that 00:44:58 ottowa linux symposium 00:45:40 no i havent, when was the last one? 00:45:54 last spring 00:45:58 i spent 8 months in ottawa working for a security company 00:46:04 guys keep bugging me to go 00:46:16 I just can't justify the expense 00:46:25 how much does it cost? 00:46:39 couplea hun 00:46:47 you wont see me there (: 00:47:14 I would, but... 00:47:15 most likely travel costs 00:47:17 i dont go to thoes things unless my jobbie job pays for the ticket, and they rarely do 00:47:18 not admissions :) 00:47:21 I can't justify it 00:47:52 the only OS meeting I've been to 00:47:57 was OS/2 stuff 00:48:09 never been to any unix conventions 00:48:13 anybody here play around with colorforth? 00:48:30 my friend has 00:48:33 cant seem to back space when i messup a definition 00:48:34 he'll be working on it 00:48:58 i ripped the keys out of an old keyboard to make it easier to use 00:49:03 wierd stuff 00:49:28 maybe try pressing shift+backspace 00:50:02 i dont think he uses the shift keys for anything 00:50:26 just some of the letter keys, and j and z are on a different code page, so to use thoes you have to switch the keymap 00:54:19 it's painfully slow 02:18:31 --- quit: ajkroll][ ("system preps") 02:49:06 --- quit: koft () 06:41:06 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@Charybdis.suse.de) joined #forth 06:41:10 hi... 06:41:12 hey 06:41:45 ree: what exactly belongs into the "dictionary"? 06:42:04 as far as i got this now, it's a linked list in a continuous part of the memory 06:43:31 containing the word name and it's compiled tokens 06:43:49 heh, I know 0 about forth, sorry 06:43:55 but that sounds about right 06:44:01 as well as additional flags for being immediate or being a variable, an function or alike 06:44:46 i want to rebuild feval from openbios, so that it's capable of getting most of the stuff running in forth itself instead of plain c 10:50:21 --- quit: ree (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:53:05 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust60.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 11:56:25 I440r: is a forth dictionary a contiguous memory region that consists of concatenated entries of the form ( pointer to next entry, word name, immediate?-flag, (word definition, var len)) ? 12:05:09 ok 12:05:26 head space and actual code space CAN be seperate but usually isnt 12:05:48 plus_link dd _pointer to previous word 12:05:58 db length of name field 12:06:06 db 'name field for this word" 12:06:14 db pointer to this words code space 12:06:21 this_words_code_space: 12:06:25 call nest 12:06:29 dd pointer to 12:06:32 dd words that 12:06:34 dd this word 12:06:36 dd execuets 12:06:38 dd unnest 12:07:06 dd pointer to plus link (previous word might have been '+' - this one might be '-' 12:07:11 db lenght byte 12:07:18 db 'name field' 12:07:27 the length byte is also a flags byte 12:07:49 there is usually 5 bits reserved for name field lingth 12:07:56 so 0x1f is a good mask :) 12:08:12 then you have 0x40 as an immediate bit 12:08:20 if that bit is set the word is immediate 12:11:39 ah 12:13:10 there are no other flags like immediate? is immediate different from compile only? 12:13:35 i saw immediate restrict .. what exactly is that? 12:13:35 yes compile only is another flag 12:13:47 it says that you cannot execute a word that is compile only 12:14:00 there is also traditionally a flag to reveal a word 12:14:14 until the word is revealed it is not linked into the dictionary 12:14:29 : foo blah blah (craps out here) 12:14:31 sounds useful 12:14:35 foo wont be in the dictionary 12:14:42 : foo blah blah blah ; 12:14:43 yes, so it keeps the dictionary sane 12:14:51 the ; reveales foo 12:14:58 not only that it allows this 12:15:03 : foo blah blah blah ; 12:15:15 : foo blah foo blah ; 12:15:18 teh second foo calls the first foo 12:15:31 if the second foo was already revealed at that point it would be recursive 12:16:37 aah! this makes sense... 12:17:13 so RECURSIVE would reveal the current word before ; is encountered? 12:18:04 yes 12:18:27 isforth will NOT have "recursive" 12:18:33 unless someone else adds it :P 12:19:39 what makes isforth special? very slim approach? 12:19:53 well 12:20:02 its for linux 12:20:20 its intended to be a complete forth development environment 12:20:26 not a minimal one like eforth 12:20:39 and unlike 99% of all the other forths 12:20:47 isforth isnt trying to be ans compliant 12:20:58 why restrict myself to such a shitty standard ? 12:21:11 and it does NOT use libc ANYWHERE in the kernel 12:21:14 indeed not a bad idea. 12:21:31 it will eventually have teh ability to use libc within application code tho 12:21:37 so the kernel should compile about anywhere.. 12:21:56 the kernel will compile on any linux x86 or fbsd x86 12:22:11 it will be abel to run on either OS 12:22:35 the only difference realy between how isforth runs on linux or fbsd is the way in which syscalls are made 12:22:43 fbsd pushes the parameters onto the stack 12:22:55 linux puts them in registers 12:23:07 so we have a linux-syscall-source-file 12:23:17 and a fbsd-syscall-source-file 12:23:23 u include the one you are going to use 12:23:25 mnake linux 12:23:29 make freebsd 12:23:45 nice! 12:24:45 i'm still thinkin about how to finnish the open firmware evaluator kernel.. but i recognize that it's not too smart writing code when being clueless about forth internals 12:25:19 hehehe 12:27:36 uh.. gotta go home and eat sth... 12:27:41 i hope i will be back later. 12:27:45 :) 12:28:43 --- quit: Stepan ("Do you think it is air you are breathing? Hmm?") 13:12:51 --- quit: I440r (No route to host) 13:24:23 --- join: MrReach (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 14:33:23 --- join: Stepan (~sr@pD9E53EF2.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:53:51 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust204.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 14:54:13 mrdood! 15:08:15 hihi 15:08:26 just leaving the house (gotta go to library) 15:14:11 k :) 15:42:40 --- join: aum` (~aum@l76-145.world-net.co.nz) joined #forth 15:51:17 hi dood 15:51:25 im debugging isforth with ddd 15:51:26 --- join: ree (user@ip68-3-237-161.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 15:51:26 grrr 15:51:32 its a pile of SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 15:51:34 ddd i mean 15:51:35 heh 16:09:20 yeh - ddd is a bit painful 16:09:32 * aum` confesses to liking the msvc debugger 16:20:33 ugh 16:20:39 i like d386 16:20:48 but its dos :P 16:21:11 tried to get eric isaacson to make a linux version of a86/d86 but he wont :P 16:22:23 looked at nasm? 16:22:36 i prefer that one a lot to the gnu toolchain crap ;) 16:23:25 nasm is what i use for assembling isforth 16:23:34 but nasm is a pile of shit compared to a386 16:23:46 and i have to use an UN-OFFICIAL version of nasm too 16:23:53 and nasm does not come with a debugger 16:24:21 it comes with a REALY shitty disassembler tho 16:24:29 when i last looked at a386 i was used to m68k asm, and then everything using intel assembly looks like like a big pile of shit ;) 16:24:36