00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.01.25 00:40:21 --- join: War[Clone] (~myPhpBot@APh-Aug-101-1-3-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 00:41:21 --- part: War[Clone] left #forth 00:45:53 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust141.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 00:46:17 i might still be able to do this 00:46:23 MAYBE 00:46:49 whats that? 00:47:13 isforth 00:47:23 i was " <-- this close to deleting ALL sources for it 00:47:34 theres a problem with writing into your code segment in linux 00:48:01 hmm 00:48:57 if its executable - it usually isnt writeable 00:49:04 unless its bss 00:49:24 but there might still be a way to do this but its convoluted 00:49:34 i can make an allocated buffer both readable and writeable 00:49:42 and if its readable its executable 00:49:54 bss? 00:49:55 so when u run forth it will first allocate a buffer 00:50:04 memory map itself into that buffer 00:50:14 set a flag withn the second copy of itself 00:50:18 JUMP into the second copy 00:50:25 which is read/write/execute 00:50:36 NOW it can free up the original copy of itself 00:50:46 but the startup for isforth will be VERY inefficient 00:51:03 and we wont be able to process share 00:51:07 which i dont want anyway 01:05:05 --- quit: kholmes ("sleep zzz") 05:53:33 --- quit: I440r () 11:52:52 --- join: kholmes (~kholmes@client569.sedona.net) joined #forth 13:54:05 --- quit: kholmes ("work") 14:10:09 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-174-54.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 14:10:25 hm 14:14:57 hm 14:15:39 i want to take on responsibilty for this chan, i want to register it 14:16:08 --- part: futhin left #forth 14:23:10 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-174-54.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 14:23:21 speuler, you there? 14:23:25 oxygene? 14:25:45 hm? 14:26:46 i want to register this channel heh :) 14:26:57 and then promote it on CLF or something 14:27:04 get some more ppl here 14:27:18 isn't it registered already? 14:27:24 no, look at the topic.. 14:27:34 i440r gave up on isforth :( 14:27:40 and deleted the chan 14:27:57 then register - or should somebody else do it? 14:28:13 hm... he's deleting isforth because linux sucks? 14:29:07 i can't register if i don't have op mode 14:29:18 and i need to get everyone off this chan, so that i can join it and get op mode.. 14:29:58 he was trying to implement KEY using linux syscalls. but the problem is that the syscall expects you to enter a key AND 14:32:10 he can't delete a project on SF 14:32:30 he deleted teh channel 14:32:41 he says he wants to delete the project, too 14:32:43 he can't 14:33:02 where does he say that? 14:33:08 hmm... what he wanted to do (executable + writable) is possible - gcc uses such pages for trampolines 14:33:12 topic 14:35:02 he can trash up the project on sf though 14:35:11 not entirely 14:35:32 one simply requests the cvs-stuff from today 12:00 CET and it's okay 14:36:10 doesn't matter... there isn't any op here? wow... 14:38:46 --- join: nev-bsd (~nev@ppp-64-219-87-196.dialup.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:38:52 heh 14:39:02 lovely topic 14:39:05 --- part: nev-bsd left #forth 14:39:06 yup 14:39:13 sucker... 14:39:18 heh 14:41:04 --- join: starzz_ (starzz@staff.opn) joined #forth 14:41:07 ok 14:41:10 oh I see 14:41:11 ok 14:41:44 yeah 14:41:48 i need op or something 14:42:18 geesus 14:42:23 heh 14:42:25 heh 14:42:30 whats the bots name 14:42:34 clog 14:42:47 speuler isn't here, too it seems 14:42:49 hold on 14:42:56 if you could just op me? heh 14:42:57 I need to get on my other client ;) 14:42:58 yet another 14:43:09 management by chaos? ;) 14:43:29 --- join: starzz (starzz@staff.opn) joined #forth 14:43:55 oh I wasnt in god mode on the other client ;) 14:44:04 yeah :) 14:44:08 cheater ;) 14:44:15 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o starzz 14:44:28 yay, our hero :) 14:44:29 who was I to give opts to again? 14:44:31 erg 14:44:33 me 14:44:34 futhin: 14:44:35 ok 14:44:42 --- mode: starzz set mode: +o futhin 14:44:50 thanks :)) 14:44:53 ok 14:44:56 I had to register it 14:44:56 lol.. #forth is already registered??? 14:44:57 and then o 14:44:58 oh 14:44:58 i see 14:45:01 and then drop it 14:45:02 lol 14:45:07 ok cool :) 14:45:07 so much work 14:45:14 thank you :) 14:45:14 so, now you can register it 14:45:17 sure thing 14:45:21 --- part: starzz left #forth 14:45:29 sorry 14:45:33 forgot I was not in god mode here 14:45:47 I am on three clients so it gets a tad confusing ;) 14:45:52 heh 14:45:56 have fun guys! 14:45:56 why 3 clients? 14:45:59 thank you 14:45:59 well 14:46:00 one for home 14:46:03 one for shell 14:46:06 and one on another box 14:46:15 ah 14:46:16 I access the shell and other box @ work 14:46:20 if I just want to chat I go on the shell 14:46:25 if I have to do stuff, I do it on the gui 14:46:31 its easier to figure out on the gui 14:46:37 yeah 14:46:48 starzz- is on epic ircii 14:46:52 starzz_ is on x-chat 14:46:55 lol 14:47:00 ok bye have fun 14:47:04 --- part: starzz_ left #forth 14:47:16 nice guy 14:47:19 yup 14:47:51 --- join: bpt (bpt@user-2ivf1on.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #forth 14:47:56 hihi 14:48:08 wtf is the topic supposed to mean? 14:48:11 what's isforth? 14:48:37 bpt: the old channel holder gave up 14:48:42 bpt: and isforth was his project 14:48:44 --- topic: set to 'Forth is a sexy language for sexy people' by futhin 14:48:52 i440r 14:49:10 futhin: need a chanbot? 14:49:22 what for? 14:49:25 :) 14:49:29 abi is evil 14:49:32 infobot :) 14:49:32 don't need abi :P 14:49:54 hrm, I can't set the topic 14:49:57 just to react in unexpected cases and to hold the faq 14:49:58 probably a good thing :) 14:50:09 what did you want the topic to be? 14:50:17 the faq? 14:50:19 that's a good idea 14:50:20 ok 14:50:24 let's have a faq bot 14:50:30 a faqin bot!! 14:50:32 let's see... *trying some magic* 14:50:42 --- join: IEEE1275-1994 (bot@linux-future.de) joined #forth 14:50:47 futhin: I was going to change it to ``Forth is a wordy language for wordy people'' -- I couldn't resist :) 14:50:54 hey IEEE1275-1994 :) 14:50:59 lol 14:51:06 IEEE1275-1994: status ? 14:51:07 Since Wed Jan 23 02:27:35 2002, there have been 19 modifications and 6 questions. I have been awake for 2 days, 21 hours, 23 minutes, 31 seconds this session, and currently reference 254 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode. 14:51:09 can't we get a nice nick name? :( 14:51:17 a nicer nickname for the bot heh :) 14:51:23 futhin: that'd mean I 14:51:29 I'd have to run another instance of it 14:51:41 and after all - ieee1275-1994 is tightly related to forth ;) 14:51:51 hmm 14:52:24 IEEE1275-1994: what is forth? 14:52:24 forth is specified per the IEEE 1275-1994 spec 14:52:29 sucker! 14:52:38 IEEE1275-1994: no, forth is a sexy language for sexy people 14:52:38 ...but forth is specified per the IEEE 1275-1994 spec... 14:52:44 IEEE1275-1994: forget forth 14:52:45 oxygene: I forgot forth 14:52:51 IEEE1275-1994: forth is a sexy language for sexy people 14:52:51 OK, oxygene. 14:52:56 IEEE1275-1994: what is forth? 14:52:56 rumour has it forth is a sexy language for sexy people 14:53:02 fine 14:53:06 hmm 14:53:43 IEEE1275-1994: forth is a wordy language for wordy people 14:53:43 ...but forth is a sexy language for sexy people... 14:53:46 IEEE1275-1994: what is forth? 14:53:46 well, forth is a sexy language for sexy people 14:53:51 IEEE1275-1994: who are you? 14:53:51 somebody said i was the Open Firmware standard 14:53:56 IEEE1275-1994: what are you? 14:53:56 i am the Open Firmware standard 14:53:59 IEEE1275-1994: why are you? 14:54:00 IEEE1275-1994 is, like, the Open Firmware standard 14:54:06 IEEE1275-1994: when are you? 14:54:06 i am the Open Firmware standard 14:54:09 IEEE1275-1994: where are you? 14:54:09 i am probably the Open Firmware standard 14:54:09 why not change _this_ bot's name to something shorter? and why does it have to say something differently each time.. ? 14:54:18 IEEE1275-1994: forget forth 14:54:19 bpt: I forgot forth 14:54:24 futhin: it only changes the prefix 14:54:28 IEEE1275-1994: forth is a wordy language for wordy people 14:54:28 OK, bpt. 14:54:31 IEEE1275-1994: what is forth? 14:54:32 forth is, like, a wordy language for wordy people 14:54:38 yeah, it's annoying lol :P 14:54:39 IEEE1275-1994: forget forth 14:54:39 bpt: I forgot forth 14:54:47 IEEE1275-1994: forth is a sexy language for sexy people 14:54:47 OK, bpt. 14:54:50 IEEE1275-1994: what is forth? 14:54:50 it has been said that forth is a sexy language for sexy people 14:54:59 IEEE1275-1994: by whom? 14:54:59 bpt: i haven't a clue 14:55:02 IEEE1275-1994: by who? 14:55:02 bugger all, i dunno, bpt 14:55:03 futhin: the first 30min. of its appearance will be spend playing with it - like bpt does atm 14:55:09 IEEE1275-1994: idiot! 14:55:09 bpt: excuse me? 14:55:10 there's no real point for changing the prefix unless it's to fool ppl into thinking that it's not a bot, other than that, it's annoying.. 14:55:15 IEEE1275-1994: f*** you! 14:55:15 bpt: excuse me? 14:55:23 IEEE1275-1994: 2341 14:55:23 bpt: excuse me? 14:55:30 nope, no profanity detectors :/ 14:55:34 futhin: never implemented it - didn't even try to turn it of... 14:55:43 lol 14:55:50 bpt: they're only active when he's op ;) 14:56:10 no, there aren't any... 14:56:32 futhin: you don't have to address him when you need to know something - so his long nick is not an issue 14:56:42 debian? 14:56:42 debian is the distributions all the wannabe BSD guys use ;) 14:56:43 IEEE1275-1994: 1 2 + 14:56:44 bpt: huh? 14:57:12 bpt: it is not written in forth - the only forthish bot I've found is botforth - and it sucks ass... 14:57:12 um, let's code a proper forth bot in forth and lets you execute some stuff :P 14:57:28 IEEE1275-1994: hey, you're not Open Firmware, you liar! 14:57:28 bpt: what? 14:57:56 :D 14:58:05 futhin: nice idea - it needs to handle the IRC-protocol though or do you want to encapsulate the logic into some irc-handler? 14:58:32 futhin: are you still working on forthmud? it sounds like that would be a good way for me to get some forth experience 14:58:42 naw, do it from forth 14:58:54 bpt: i'm "working" on it, just haven't touched it for 2 months 14:59:16 futhin: do what from forth? 14:59:19 i need to get back on it, and get the sockets interfacing figured out as well as the db 14:59:26 the irc bot from forth.. 15:00:16 may take a look at botforth and make it suck less? ;) 15:01:03 what does it run from? 15:01:46 futhin: haven't looked to deep into its internals, it just doesn't look very forthish for me 15:01:59 of course there is no "forthish" but still ;) 15:02:56 does it run in gforth or bigforth or what? 15:03:47 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 15:03:47 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set mode: +o ChanServ 15:03:54 :P 15:04:01 chanserv will guard us from our enemies! 15:04:23 and make it look like there's more ppl on our channel too, leet huh!? :) 15:04:34 hehe 15:05:02 afaik it's not based on these systems but has its own, could be wrong though 15:06:12 i gotta go, bbl 15:06:16 but i like the bot idea 15:06:20 --- quit: futhin ("laters") 15:17:11 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust4.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 15:18:11 heh 15:18:32 I440r: hi 15:18:47 hi 15:23:48 whats ieee1257-1994 ? 15:24:53 I440r: a bot futhin's running 15:25:35 yea but its obviouslya doccument ite refering to hehe 15:25:50 IEEE1275-1994: what are you? 15:25:51 i heard i was the Open Firmware standard 15:26:09 oh 15:26:09 hehe 15:26:12 that explanez it :) 16:01:32 --- quit: bpt ("ERC v2.1 $Revision: 1.179 $ (IRC client for Emacs)") 18:21:11 --- join: kholmes (~kholmes@client542.sedona.net) joined #forth 18:21:35 hi kh 18:22:12 hey 18:22:46 :) 18:33:20 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-174-54.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 18:33:25 hi all 18:33:30 werd futhin 18:33:40 interesting topic 18:33:55 it's pretty lame, but i couldn't think of anything :P 18:34:19 heh...thats okay 18:34:22 i440r: hello? :( 18:36:03 hi 18:36:03 que tal, I440r 18:36:05 yea man :P 18:36:18 if isforth is EVER to work then what ill have to do is this 18:36:28 when isforth runs it will first have to allocatea memory buffer 18:36:34 hmm...interfacing GTK+ with forth shouldn't be too hard, I don't think 18:36:40 change the perms on that buffer to be both read and write (and therefore executable) 18:36:40 I440r: that doesn't look right 18:36:51 iee is a stupid bot lol 18:37:02 then it will need to RELOAD the isforth executable - parsing the ELF info 18:37:11 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o futhin 18:37:12 and recreating the executable in memory within that buffer 18:37:19 it will have to have an elf file reader built in 18:37:26 once isforth is loaded AGAIN 18:37:43 we will have to jump to teh new copy thereof to the REAL forth boot address 18:37:54 --- mode: futhin set mode: +ooo I440r kholmes oxygene 18:38:01 --- mode: futhin set mode: +o Speuler 18:38:06 --- mode: futhin set mode: +m 18:38:21 unless the above method will work 18:38:22 then 18:38:30 the only other option is 18:38:35 rm -rf isforth 18:39:19 let's talk about the KEY problem. why couldn't you make a KEY that didn't use syscall but accessed the keyboard directly or something. shouldn't there be some keyboard buffer ?? 18:39:25 which is something i was VERY VERY close to doing 18:39:29 the key problem is minor 18:39:39 ive been told that i need to set some mode or other in the console 18:39:44 plus 18:39:52 what i think ill do is write a trap function 18:40:07 any time a key is pressed the trap function will run, collect the key and stuff it in a forth keyboard buffer 18:40:14 that way i can do key and key? 18:40:40 jee 18:40:43 jeez 18:40:46 this is getting pretty ugly 18:40:48 heh 18:40:54 i know heh 18:41:03 but i think its the ONLY way i can get isforth to work 18:41:13 i NEED to have read/write and execute permissions on ALL of isforth 18:41:46 how did u get chanserv to come in here ? 18:41:53 does chanserv stay in here when everyone leaves ? 18:42:02 i.e. is the topic retained heh 18:42:04 when isforth is first run, it has to load itself ? 18:42:07 i dunno 18:42:09 yes 18:42:30 i was just going thru chanserv help and it has SET CHANSERV ON or osmething like that 18:42:36 it has to have an alf file reader built in so it can load itself into a read/write/execute buffer 18:42:44 elf even 18:43:01 im goign to try write a small asm program to do this 18:43:13 see if it can read/write and execute itself after relocating itself 18:43:41 actually, it cant "relocate" itself because all the reloaction info is contained within the elf file 18:43:47 so it will be loading itself 18:44:22 hmm 18:44:24 sucks 18:44:36 why don't you code your isforth in c? :P 18:45:01 fuck that 18:45:38 u wanna see isforth as it is now ? 18:45:41 it does run 18:45:41 does gforth or bigforth have these problems? or are they cheating by using C or something ? 18:46:02 but it can sigsegv if u do the wrong thing hh 18:46:09 ive written a word that always sigsegv's 18:46:27 it tries to move the command line tail into the terminal input buffer and interpret it 18:46:30 it wors 18:46:31 works 18:46:35 but then it sigsegv's 18:46:38 which i dont understand 18:46:55 because any time u write anythign on teh keyboard it runs exactly the same code 18:47:04 yet u can do that NP 18:47:13 futhin: I think gforth is bootstrapped in C but is mostly written in forth 18:47:44 gforth is bleh 18:47:53 i dont like any of the existing linux forths 18:47:56 looked at em 18:47:58 discarded them 18:48:12 filed them under "non entity" 18:48:56 yeah.. 18:49:49 whats wrong with them? 18:49:54 forth is forth 18:49:56 they suck :P 18:49:58 naw 18:50:07 forth in c is evil :) 18:50:16 i dunno, but maybe they run slow too 18:50:26 im glad we got that straight heh 18:50:35 heh 18:50:47 u realy dont know how close i realy came to deleting ALL isforth sources 18:50:55 " <-- this close 18:51:21 how much source do you have? 18:52:16 hang on ill dc u the tgz 18:52:33 erm i need to run a rescue on my laptop first tho heh 18:53:00 erm wait no i dont :) 18:53:06 heh 18:53:30 see if i can dcc thru the ipmasw 18:53:36 ipmasq 18:53:47 i saw it 18:53:51 said "failed to connect" 18:53:57 ok hang on heh 18:54:32 --- join: I440r__ (mark4@1Cust4.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 18:54:41 i440r: i don't understand fully what your AIM is for isforth, and how it differs from gforth/bigforth/etc.. and WHY.. and WHY does the original way you were going to do it no longer works?? 18:55:09 i wont touch a forth that cant TOTALLY metacompile itself 18:55:13 give ALL its sources 18:55:15 recreate itself 18:55:19 gforth can't metacompile? 18:55:20 forth compilers cant compile c code :P 18:55:24 why would they want to 18:55:54 what? just because some forth interfaces with the libraries doesn't mean it can't metacompile.. ?? 18:56:45 futhin: only if the libraries are written in forth 18:57:09 im not interfacing with libraries 18:57:14 specifaically not with libc 18:57:19 thats a prime directive 18:57:36 why use a middle man to do your i/o when you can go directly to the source/destination 18:57:48 libraries are external, you could probably interface with the libraries AFTER you have coded isforth.. 18:57:51 isforth will be able to compile about 5000 lines or more of code PER SECOND 18:57:58 if its any less than that ill be rethingking it :) 18:58:06 yeah 18:58:16 it better be fast, show up the critics 18:58:34 write a complete web browser with all the latest bells and whistles 18:58:39 and compile it in 3 seconds flat 18:58:59 a web browser in C with no libraries? heh...that'll take a while 18:59:04 (understatement) 18:59:13 no 18:59:13 I mean in forth, not C 18:59:17 it wont take long at all 18:59:34 all we need to do is a the tcp/ip shit in forth 18:59:38 thats just opening files etc 18:59:40 PNG support 18:59:45 CSS support 18:59:49 XML support 18:59:54 yup 18:59:59 very easy to implement 19:00:01 kholmes: it'll be easy 19:00:06 forth is very very easy to develop in 19:00:08 libraries aren't really necessary 19:00:20 they are 19:00:23 I don't see it 19:00:25 but they will be forth libraries 19:00:27 source files 19:00:45 man if linux was coded 100% in forth the fucking thing would fluy 19:00:46 fly 19:00:48 power on 19:00:54 3 seconds later ur all booted hhe 19:00:55 startx 19:01:05 blink and u mis it switching into ur fave desktop heh 19:01:19 you've been doing forth for a while you told me 19:01:25 since teh 80's 19:01:37 basically since almost the beginning 19:01:44 just missed the start by 10 years or so :) 19:01:45 I'll take your word for it, then 19:01:59 dont 19:02:04