00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.01.04 01:04:51 * aaronl is back (gone 17:50:36) 06:52:28 --- join: XeF4 (~xef4@dsl-VI-146.kotikaista.weppi.fi) joined #forth 07:20:09 * aaronl is away: school 07:27:11 --- quit: XeF4 (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: XeF4_!~xef4@dsl-V-60.kotikaista.weppi.fi))) 07:27:26 --- join: XeF4 (~xef4@dsl-V-60.kotikaista.weppi.fi) joined #forth 08:06:20 --- quit: XeF4 ("ruoka on saapunut") 08:31:28 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: -oo aaronl clog 09:25:04 --- join: I440r (mark4@1Cust68.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 09:33:31 --- quit: I440r ("[BX] Time wasted: 8m 48s") 10:05:03 --- join: I440r (mark4@pool-63.52.217.102.ipls.grid.net) joined #forth 10:13:13 --- join: I440r_ (mark4@pool-63.52.217.206.ipls.grid.net) joined #forth 10:32:39 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:07:12 --- join: futhin (thin@24.66.212.245) joined #forth 11:07:16 sup 11:13:36 --- quit: futhin ("bye") 11:23:26 doh! 11:23:27 heh 11:55:41 --- quit: I440r_ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 11:56:42 --- join: futhin (thin@24.66.212.245) joined #forth 11:56:45 --- quit: futhin (Client Quit) 15:05:07 --- join: edrx (~ochs@Panda.Math.McGill.CA) joined #forth 15:05:18 hi aaronl 15:06:15 --- quit: edrx ("[x]chat") 16:06:22 * aaronl is back (gone 08:46:13) 16:41:13 --- join: futhin (thin@24.66.212.245) joined #forth 16:41:16 --- part: futhin left #forth 16:41:47 --- join: futhin (thin@24.66.212.245) joined #forth 17:39:22 --- join: qless (~qless@clgr000977.hs.telusplanet.net) joined #forth 17:39:38 hiya futhin 17:43:16 hiya 17:43:20 how's it going? 17:43:46 recovering from the holidays 17:43:49 heh 17:43:57 and you? how's your mud coming? 17:44:15 it's not coming.. :P 17:44:26 oh, its going, eh :-) 17:44:27 combination of being busy with exams and being lazy 17:44:34 know the feeling 17:45:01 and my comp went haywire for a few days and internet stopped working 17:45:08 so no internet for a month 17:45:15 yowza 17:46:06 i never touch my computer unless it has internet.. 17:46:09 :) 17:46:33 i need internet to tempt me to get on my comp, and then after that i may code :) 17:48:21 when my box died in october i almost lost my mind 17:48:55 heh 17:49:13 gotta hate monitor radiation withdrawal 17:49:34 yeah, have to turn up the colour and brightness really high on the tv to compensate 17:49:40 heheh 17:49:58 and then watch batman cartoons! 17:50:02 :-) 17:50:05 i just rely on sci-fi books, after i read enough of them, i get the same dependable pain in the eyes ;) 17:51:25 batman.. unacceptable! i watch digimon! ;) 17:52:17 ouch. going for the seizures huh 17:54:19 heheh 17:54:45 digimon is pretty bad, i'll only watch it if there's nothing else on. i like pokemon better :P 17:55:00 i don't really watch much t.v though.. except for stuff like stargate and startrek 17:56:13 qless: what do you do? :) 17:56:16 what, there's only 6 hours of star trek on the space channel a day... :-) 17:56:22 heh 17:56:27 i have poverty vision 17:56:39 only got 5 chans.. 2,4,5,9,13 :P 17:57:09 antenna huh, you're depriving yourself of fun sitcoms like cnn and cbc newsworld 17:57:33 yeah, actually, the first thing i'd get is cnn if i got cable :P 17:58:10 i am a quantum mechanic. fix electrons, stuff like that 17:58:18 heh 17:58:32 and a calgarian too! amazing! 17:59:02 i'm working on a forth quantum computer. it only has one digit. an O 17:59:34 unary huh. makes it easier i suppose :-) 18:00:01 the keyboard has one key :P 18:00:08 "panic"? 18:00:11 it's one that you can't fail to hit 18:00:19 naw, an O 18:00:25 oh 18:01:15 do you find it weird that you are a calgarian and i am a calgarian? 18:01:22 because i sure do 18:01:24 i write all my programs in morse code, then debug them in the shower while they're playing on the stereo 18:01:33 eewwwwww 18:01:37 heh 18:01:46 morse code is ugly :P 18:01:56 all i learned was SOS 18:02:06 yeah it is a bit wierd, but not uncanny 18:02:24 it's be uncanny if you were also a daytrader :P 18:02:34 are you a daytrader? 18:02:45 nope, but i've read the books ;) 18:03:10 scotch, up a 5th 18:03:52 eh? drinking helps you recover from the holidays? :) 18:04:24 best way to avoid a hangover is to stay drunk 18:05:02 well, not really 18:05:47 hmm, i know some people who drink beer in the morning to get rid of a hangover.. 18:06:13 but a hangover is just dehydration, so drinking water should be just as effective 18:06:13 1st year students probly 18:06:17 heh 18:07:43 yeah water is good, especially soda water. rebalances electrolytes 18:09:41 hmm, i'm not a fan of soda water, or even of scotch. not yet, i have to kill off a few more tastebuds 18:09:53 i had to acquire a taste for beer.. it took a lot of effort heh 18:11:05 well, naturally, living in the north west :-P 18:11:33 the south east is where all the beer drinkers live ;-) 18:15:17 heh 18:15:49 so what do you do with forth? are you new to it, are you already an experienced forth coder? 18:17:10 i'm writing a forth kernel on good days 18:17:53 on bad days i play quake and stare out the window 18:18:09 heheh 18:18:34 cover up the window with tinfoil, maybe that'll help ;) 18:18:56 yeah but then my neighbours will think i'm growing pot and drop in unexpected 18:19:36 heh 18:19:58 so you don't put up tinfoil because you ARE guilty of growing pot! ;) 18:20:42 ohoh busted. now i'll have to move to alaska 18:21:48 and i thought /this/ was the hinterland... 18:23:07 hmm, i wouldn't move to alaska, maybe to bc, or yukon 18:23:18 too much competition in bc though 18:23:36 they got 140 different kinds of dope. some that make you mellow, others that make you yellow, etc 18:24:15 hmmm 18:24:37 maybe 18:24:38 maybe not 18:25:08 how old are you? :) 18:25:11 maybe i can become a philosophical radio show host in a small town like cicily, nwt 18:25:11 i'm 21 18:25:44 that's a good idea 18:26:10 as a philosophical host you can get away with telling people really stupid things 18:26:11 i'm getting older every minute... its hard to keep track 18:26:21 yes 18:26:22 hell, i'm a natural 18:26:55 i've noticed that you've avoided revealing anything about yourself. and since you came onto this channel after i did, i must assume the worst. you are a stalker, and you are stalking me 18:27:05 heh 18:27:09 lol 18:27:36 18:28:12 no, i'm not a staulker 18:29:20 well it's a little bizarre 18:29:36 you won't tell me how old you are 18:30:28 oh ok, i'm 25, single. no kids. alberta licence #45732-98503 18:30:38 want to run my prints? 18:30:41 :-) 18:30:58 lol 18:31:15 i was suspecting between 25 and 35 18:31:19 are you female, futhin? 18:31:23 nope 18:31:44 if you know any female coders that aren't heavier than me or taller than me, let me know! :P 18:31:51 heh 18:32:28 then i assuem you have something stalkable? rich parents? land in the carribean? 18:32:34 heh 18:32:55 naw 18:33:10 i wouldn't be in calgary if i had either of those :P 18:33:46 yeah, why are you in calgary? i'm here because i lost a bet 18:33:55 lol! 18:34:02 seriously? :) 18:34:16 i'm here cause i was born here 18:34:20 well no, but sometimes it feels that way 18:34:35 are you american? 18:34:58 maybe you are british columbian 18:35:08 bc people are weird and quiet 18:35:12 they scare me 18:35:23 i have american blood. but i'm most comfortable on the east coast 18:35:38 heh. yeah watch out for those bc'ers 18:37:12 you're from the east? you should be at home in vancouver ;) 18:37:41 nice town, but its still way WAY too laid back to get anything done 18:38:13 calgary? 18:38:18 no vancouver 18:38:24 heh 18:38:55 calgary is like a holding pen for all the cows that couldn't get the energy to get over the mountains 18:39:04 depends on the locale i'd think.. when i see hot chicks walking around with the latest fashion it tends to make me hungry for some meat 18:39:32 ouch. are you a vampire? 18:39:37 naw 18:39:45 it's a metaphor 18:39:52 oh i get it 18:40:38 hungry for their bodies, hungry for success, hungry to get working on my latest cool project :P 18:41:28 hungry for cheeseburgers it makes me 18:42:58 my last gf made such a mess of my life, so i'll just stick with cheeseburgers 18:44:00 --- join: I440r_ (mark4@pool-63.52.217.130.ipls.grid.net) joined #forth 18:44:18 hiya i440r 18:44:24 i haven't had a gf yet.. (not counting junior high) :/ 18:44:24 --- part: I440r_ left #forth 18:47:32 hmmm 18:51:16 tell me about your forth kernel? 18:51:27 www.linuxchix.org 18:51:31 is it for practice/fun ? 18:51:50 yes, its to learn forth 18:52:20 hmm.. yeah, if i ever get off my ass i would probably code forth in asm 18:52:39 it is also to learn about the hardware since it is also the os layer 18:52:49 hmm 18:52:58 are you interested in os dev? 18:53:09 sure 18:53:32 looks like linuxchix.org is being worked on right now 18:53:37 you female? 18:54:06 heh "my last gf.." maybe you are lesbian :P 18:54:23 i'm a lesbian in a man's body :-) 18:54:39 heh 18:55:11 i'm a raving lesbian in a man's body 18:55:25 is today friday? 18:55:33 yeah 18:55:35 nm 19:04:55 qless 19:05:01 qless.. 19:05:07 let's start up FUC 19:05:16 hey that's an idea 19:05:18 forth users in calgary :P 19:05:46 naw 19:05:48 and only people who can run up the calgary tower can join. hot chicks excepted 19:05:53 lol 19:05:59 hey 19:06:01 that's a good idea 19:06:06 i want to run up the calgary tower 19:06:17 i wonder if it even has stairs 19:06:21 it should 19:06:23 it sure does 19:08:08 i'm wondering if you are a cs student? 19:08:48 i'm aiming for software engineering 19:08:57 it's a scam, but it's a good one ;) 19:09:16 you're well on your way then :-) 19:09:24 because it is a scam 19:09:34 heh ? 19:09:44 i didn't think you would also think it's a scam :P 19:09:44 software engineering is a scam 19:09:47 yeah 19:09:50 but i get the ring ;) 19:10:14 one ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, one ring to bring them together and in the darkness bind them! 19:10:27 :P 19:10:34 i saw lord of the rings 2 days ago 19:10:44 i've read the books too 19:10:51 good movie, VERY consistent 19:10:56 trust me, when you're master and dark lord of all the world you've got nothing but headaches 19:11:03 i'm happy they didn't screw it up :) 19:11:13 ...people always calling on the phone 19:11:19 heh 19:11:21 yeah 19:11:23 true 19:11:40 you've seen the movie then? 19:11:55 yes, just said that 19:12:25 the scary guys in the movie are reasonably scary too :P 19:12:33 right on 19:13:16 i'm a procrastinator 19:13:26 my name is futhin, and i am a procrastinator 19:13:36 welcome futhin 19:13:49 * qless rolls some more cigarettes while thinking about playing quake and staring out the window 19:14:07 i am at Procrastinator's Anonymous to apologize for missing the previous 12 meetings 19:15:18 :) 19:16:13 i would applaud, but i'm waiting to get in the mood 19:16:19 i heard there was a procrastinator's club in calgary.. they didn't have their first meeting until a year later 19:16:37 arf 19:17:13 i'm kind of the type of guy that tries to get together with other people to do projects, because i'm less likely to procrastinate that way 19:17:39 that's kind of why i want an interactive collaborative universe for forth coders to get together, it would help me be more productive :) 19:18:10 thats a good idea 19:18:20 yeah 19:18:42 but it'd have to be coded in forth in the first place.. cuz forth coders would code in the collaborative universe 19:19:21 it seems that all forth coders are procrastinators.. it's very interesting 19:19:51 you're familiar with gnutella? what about a forth netowrk infrastructure to pass around and improve forth code 19:20:34 forth has a lot of potential, and is imho the best language out there, but forth needs to be developed! it needs to be standardized, it needs to have good propaganda (and educational material)! it needs work done on it, but forth coders seem to be lazy 19:21:02 they are very independent beasts i've noticed 19:21:34 if forth was improved, thru better educational material as well as some form of standardized forth, i can see it becoming widely accepted as the most powerful language, period. 19:21:39 yeah 19:21:50 i understand the history of forth 19:22:09 and because of that, i understand why forth has gotten off to a really rocky start 19:23:10 because when they were making fig-forth and forth79 etc.. they were only interested in implementing the basics, they believed that forth coders wanted to code the rest of the stuff they needed themselves.. so they made those forths good at doing that 19:23:24 blah 19:23:31 my speech is a little fragmented 19:23:53 so you are suggesting a higher level standardization, like say, the c library? 19:26:52 there's different ways to go about it 19:26:59 but mrreach did suggest having a library 19:28:21 may i ask what hardware you're running? 19:29:10 i'd have linux installed except my hdd is too big for my motherboard (it's an old mother), and i couldn't install both windows and linux because i have to use some ezboot shit to get windows to recognize the hdd, and i wanted windows cuz i have anime, and i dunno about playing my anime in linux 19:29:55 what cpu? 19:30:30 i'm asking because it would make sense to have my forth project run on systems like yours as well... 19:30:34 plus i made several attempts to switch over previously, but when i couldn't install zen browser (which is a graphical console browser, because i think X is hideously bloated and plus console is leet) because slackware had some screwed up librarys, i gave up switching over. next time i'll install debian 19:30:44 my cpu is 586 19:30:52 133 mhz 19:31:15 it's an old comp 19:31:19 and i'm too cheap to upgrade 19:31:44 debian rocks. i am a debian developer (almost) 19:31:49 heh 19:32:16 slackware rocks too.. 19:32:29 it comes with a really nifty rpm2tar program too 19:32:38 cool 19:33:16 converts rpm to tarball.. somepeople might think that rpm is bloated and has all sorts of junk in it, but i don't think so, because rpm2tar produces clean tarballs 19:33:37 of course maybe that's just the power of rpm2tar 19:34:15 debian uses .deb's instead of rpms 19:34:17 and slackware starts with a framebuffer, so i get a warm feeling when it's got 80 lines instead of 41 or whatever the standard is 19:34:41 with the cutest penguin logo at the top ;) 19:34:55 yeah i have that too 19:35:09 the logo screws up the framebuffer though 19:35:19 it's rather annoying 19:35:32 if i knew how, i'd remove the logo 19:35:36 but i didn't look 19:35:43 and i don't have linux installed, so it's a moot point 19:35:51 well 19:35:54 /usr/src/linux/drivers/video 19:36:02 the penguin logo is in there? 19:36:07 yep 19:36:12 u use framebuffer too? 19:36:15 yep 19:36:33 have you noticed how it is a little screwy? 19:36:42 hmm 19:36:55 i use the vesa mode and its not screwy 19:37:22 the logo stays there until you load up an editor or maybe clear the screen.. that's screwy in my book heh :) 19:37:30 oh right 19:37:45 probably the quick fix would be to put a clear in the startup script or something 19:38:10 stty sane; setterm -r; echo -e '\033[?17;0;64c' 19:38:25 heh 19:38:29 why so elaborate? 19:38:30 really 19:39:06 i use that script when the console driver starts displaying in graphics characters, and the escape sequence makes the cursor a solid red block 19:39:30 you like red? 19:39:41 it bothers me less than flashing white 19:40:11 hmm.. i know some other guy that always got bothered by the cursor.. but i never noticed it 19:40:37 what forth do you use? 19:41:17 i check my stuff with win32forth in doze and gforth in unix 19:41:29 hmm 19:41:43 do you use wine? 19:42:02 nope. just reboot 19:42:23 so how long have you known about forth? 19:43:27 i first discovered fpc about 10 years ago and thought it was really cool, but didn't know where to go from there without unix 19:43:44 wow.. long time ago 19:43:49 but i started this kernel thing in the spring 19:43:55 sorry, fall 19:44:47 oh and bigforth under linux, which is a really cool native code implementation 19:45:08 hmm, heard it was coded in c or used a c wrapper or something 19:45:48 it is coded in forth, but it has hooks to access any shared library 19:46:53 fpc does look cool, and i've run it a few times, but once i start it i don't know where to go from there. it's colorful tho, and that's important :P 19:47:36 yes the colours help 19:48:08 do you read comp.lang.forth? 19:48:14 nope 19:48:19 i did try to start 19:48:26 its a really good resource i find 19:48:53 i read like 100 messages one day.. but it was all over my head, and i never made a habit of checking it all the time 19:50:49 when i start up a program, such as fpc, i am expectant that the program is properly designed and conducive to learning, and that i can fumble around and quickly learn the stuff. unfortunately, fpc wasn't like that, so i give up, and then i try again later, then i give up, then i try again later. i am confident at some point i'll reach the Ea threshold (activation energy) and get over the hump, and react with da info 19:51:12 chemistry for u :P 19:51:22 chem is ugly 19:51:23 but whatever 19:51:30 sounds technical. have you looked at the ans standard? 19:51:56 haven't sat down and read the whole thing, if that's what you mean 19:52:08 i've looked at specific things if i was trying to figure out a command 19:52:23 yep. it is loaded with good info i find 19:52:27 s/specific things/the specific parts/ 19:53:15 one thing i have to do is figure out how to separate my code, data, and name space so i don't have data in the code segments 19:53:32 what are you using? 19:53:41 nasm? 19:53:50 gas 19:53:53 ew 19:53:56 heh 19:54:01 gas is kool 19:54:02 get nasm and use that 19:54:09 there is nasm for linux 19:54:35 gas uses the bizarre intel syntax doesn't it? 19:54:40 naaah. i've got used to at&t over intel syntax 19:54:40 or at&t? 19:54:50 i confuse at&t and intel 19:55:09 is at&t more rpnish ? 19:55:14 show me some at&t asm 19:55:24 mov source,dest is at&t 19:55:35 hmm 19:56:00 also, gas knows all about the mmx and 3dnow extensions. don't know if nasm does that... 19:56:02 yeah.. but when i looked at some gas code it had all these ugly % stuff all over 19:56:15 i don't have mmx or 3dnow 19:56:43 you should aim your kernel at the p75mhz computer. i'd imagine that nasm should be able to handle that stuff, it is widely used and very popular.. 19:57:28 arg. i wish everybody had an athlon so i didn't have to deal with brain damaged loops and jumps 19:57:38 heh 19:57:47 my next cpu will probably be amd 19:58:07 amd rocks but they run hot so get a good heatsink and fan 19:58:09 they are cheap and easy to overclock 19:58:12 yeah 19:58:22 cooling is necessary even if you don't overclock 19:58:29 for sure 19:58:55 that's the hidden cost to amd.. amd might be cheaper, but you have to account for the cooling stuff, as well as the electricity that the fans use 19:59:30 why don't u code the kernel for 386? :P 19:59:39 argh 20:00:14 what's the kernel for anyways? 20:00:41 if it's for practice, might as well aim it for the 386.. that was my plan, i was going to code a forth using 386 asm 20:00:55 just to get a good feel for all the forth instructions and how they work 20:01:01 and how fast they are, etc 20:01:04 barf. i want to use all the fancy stuff that this cpu can do 20:01:09 heh 20:01:17 you love asm? :) 20:02:01 no, not really. i find it very stressful because one spelling mistake (say ebx instead of ebp) can crash the whole damn thing with just a blinking cursor 20:02:03 maybe you should forget about gas and nasm, and do the asm inside forth, reverse polish asm, mmmmmmm :P 20:02:25 ouch 20:02:36 that's an excellent idea, but first i must get the forth compiler to work. i'm almost there 20:02:43 cool 20:02:56 i've got block floppy access too 20:03:55 i think the whole block concept is kinda screwed up.. it's ugly as hell at least 20:04:05 easy to implement, but ugly to use 20:04:32 but 20:04:47 probably doesn't matter if it has a leet editor 20:04:56 the editor is _very_ important, in my book 20:05:17 it is a forth editor, ala 'starting forth' 20:05:33 a line editor? nooooooo 20:05:36 heh 20:06:00 does the library have any other forth books?? 20:06:06 i want to read thinking forth 20:06:21 there are 3. the closest 'thinking forth' is in edmonton 20:06:37 3? what are the other 2 besides starting forth? 20:07:03 the university library has some 2 of them are pretty good.. one of them has a good history 20:07:06 beginning forth, which i didn't find very useful, and an advanced 'object-oriented forth' which is a hard read 20:07:13 yeah 20:07:29 university has those two i think.. as well as advanced forth, intro to forth, and a bunch more 20:08:00 i would like to get my hands on thinking forth too 20:08:03 advanced forth and intro to forth seemed the best 20:08:30 i put thinking forth on my wish list for christmas, alas i gave it to my mom too late, as she had already done most of her christmas shopping 20:08:45 i'll probably just buy it from amazon 20:08:49 amazon.com 20:08:59 good idea 20:09:53 i've got the forth handbook thingie written by elizabeth rather and somebody else in .pdf even though it is also in book form on amazon.com 20:10:04 do you have the .pdf? i could send it to u 20:10:25 forth programmer's handbook 20:10:50 50 bucks 20:11:07 or buy together with thinking forth and save some money 20:11:12 yay 20:11:28 you have thinking forth in .pdf? 20:11:40 nope 20:11:44 forth programmer's handbook 20:11:51 oh ok. i have the fph in hard copy 20:11:58 oooh 20:12:07 when did you get that? is it a good book? 20:12:23 i haven't checked the pdf yet.. it's a little annoying reading books online 20:12:41 it is quite excellent. another good one, though more introductory, is 'forth application techniques' by the same people 20:13:11 hmm 20:13:25 is fph the only forth book you own? 20:13:40 and application techniques 20:14:26 i don't see 'thinking forth' on amazon :( 20:14:35 eh, i do 20:15:06 if you find forth programmer's handbook, you'll also find a link to thinking forth 20:15:19 i see it now 20:15:21 in the "customers who bought this book also bought:" section 20:16:09 you are lucky to have starting forth, i was actually thinking of telling the library i lost it and paying the fee ;) 20:16:49 i borrowed it last year in the summer.. in june or july 20:18:06 hm 20:18:29 i'm probably not going to buy thinking forth for awhile, maybe in two months i'll buy it 20:18:47 looks like it will take 2 months to get it once you order it 20:18:52