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04:00:20 --- topic: 'do drop >in '
04:00:20 --- topic: set by I440r on [Mon Oct 29 10:56:53 2001]
04:00:20 --- names: list (clog nate37 MrReach)
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08:08:31 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o futhin
08:09:08 <futhin> hello all
08:09:10 <futhin> anyone here?
08:10:16 --- mode: futhin set mode: +ooo clog MrReach nate37
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08:10:48 <futhin> :P
08:10:56 --- mode: futhin set mode: +o nate37
08:11:20 --- mode: futhin set mode: -o futhin
08:17:05 <futhin> i'm gonna work on the webpage
08:17:20 <futhin> this time i'm gonna use style 
08:17:32 <futhin> cuz it seems the easiest way to get i.e and netscape to work..
08:19:37 <futhin> i'm probably being too fancy, but html stuff is kinda fun :)
08:19:58 <futhin> b
08:47:50 <futhin> omg
08:48:12 <futhin> pita
08:51:09 <futhin> this is ridiculous
08:51:13 <futhin> the length i have to go
08:51:20 <MrReach> heh, then don't
08:52:10 <futhin> i'm doing style and i'm reading all the style stuff from netscape documentation, but i.e is doing it better1
08:52:13 <futhin> i'm doing style and i'm reading all the style stuff from netscape documentation, but i.e is doing it better!
08:52:31 <futhin> netscape sucks! :/
08:52:48 <futhin> heh
08:52:54 <futhin> it's just shocking
08:53:14 <MrReach> which version of netscape???
08:53:33 <MrReach> I refuse to upgrade from this older one
08:53:48 <MrReach> the newer ones use to much MIPS and don't add much functionality
08:54:03 <futhin> i'm using 4.67 or something like that
08:54:21 <MrReach> ok, roughly the same version as I
08:54:26 <futhin> i too, do not believe in the newer versions
08:54:37 <MrReach> funny, I llike this version ... have no probs writing pages for it
08:54:49 <MrReach> heh
08:54:51 <futhin> the main reason why i use netscape is because of its bookmark editing facilities.  i have more than 500 bookmarks
08:55:12 <MrReach> same here, but don't care for the editor itself
08:55:25 <MrReach> would prefer a double tree to drag-n-drop
08:55:42 <futhin> it's still better than the i.e "editor" coughcough
08:55:54 <futhin> i.e has no bookmark editor, nothing to manage the bookmarks with
08:56:26 <futhin> the netscape bookmark editor is the best..  i prefer it to using explorer in the Favorites directory..
08:56:35 <MrReach> you manage them with the file explorer
08:56:59 <MrReach> in i.e., the bookmarks are nothing but small files in a directory heirarchy
08:57:35 <futhin> i know that
08:58:02 <futhin> as i said "i prefer it (netscape's bookmark editor) to using explorer in the Favorites directory
08:58:10 <MrReach> yes
08:58:24 <futhin> i find the explorer a vert awkward way of quickly sorting the bookmarks
08:58:30 <MrReach> I don't care for i.e.s redering engine, though not sure I have the latest
08:58:53 <futhin> what part of the i.e rendering engine you don't like?
08:59:19 <MrReach> for one, the whole page has to be in before it starts drawing
08:59:53 <MrReach> for another, it often shows an image, then 1/10 of a second later redraws the image in a different size, thus rearranging the text
09:00:19 <MrReach> I find that *VERY irritating, because I am often reading by that time
09:00:53 <futhin> do you have a slow connection?
09:01:23 <MrReach> no, I have 768kb/s incoming
09:02:14 <futhin> the problem with displaying the text before the pictures are in, is that the browser doesn't know how big the pictures are until it has downloaded them.
09:02:30 <MrReach> netscape doesn't do that
09:02:30 <futhin> good html code would say  <img src=blah.jpg height=blah width=blah> 
09:02:37 <MrReach> yes, I understand
09:03:03 <MrReach> but netscape opens the picture, reads the gif or jpg header, and draws at the real size
09:03:15 <MrReach> (before loading entire picture)
09:03:20 <futhin> ah cool
09:03:58 <MrReach> my god
09:04:03 <futhin> hmm?
09:04:30 <MrReach> these SH3 processors are an entire computer SYSTEM in one chip (including all the periphs)
09:04:43 <MrReach> A/D, color lcd drivers, etc
09:05:04 <futhin> eh?
09:05:06 <MrReach> run at 26 mips, 4GB address space, mem protection
09:05:07 <futhin> where is this
09:05:16 <futhin> gimme url?
09:05:26 <MrReach> well, here is the flyer from Hitachi ...
09:05:36 <MrReach> http://semiconductor.hitachi.com/SH-3_SB.pdf
09:05:54 <MrReach> this is the launch page ...
09:05:56 <MrReach> http://semiconductor.hitachi.com/superh.htm
09:09:50 <futhin> mrreach: have you used style/css in your pages?
09:10:15 <MrReach> yes, but don't any more
09:10:43 <futhin> why not?
09:11:32 <MrReach> spec is complicated, doesn't provide enough extra functionality to learn, is meaningless to lynx
09:14:30 <futhin> this is so bizzare..  i've got this test.html which draws a little square box with blah inside using style.   netscape does a better job showing it than i.e  then i copy the stuff over to my index.html file and netscape fails to display it, and i.e displays it fine.   
09:14:43 <futhin> netscape has some serious problems with tables or something
09:14:56 <futhin> i'm doing 
09:15:00 <futhin> <style>
09:15:18 <futhin> table {border-style:solid;border-width:1pt;}
09:15:23 <futhin> and border-color:black;
09:15:26 <MrReach> how is the MUD coming along?
09:15:29 <futhin> lol
09:15:35 <futhin> i want a page up first heh
09:15:51 * MrReach nods.
09:16:18 <futhin> the mud isn't coming along much..  i'll have to sit down and figure out which glibc commands i need to use
09:16:41 <MrReach> sorry, I was mistaken ... the SH7729 (which I believe is the one in my PDA) is 206 MIPS
09:17:01 <futhin> i've broken the code into several files.   mud.fs db.fs sockets.fs parser.fs ui.fs
09:17:02 <MrReach> that's insane
09:17:15 <MrReach> sounds right
09:17:44 <futhin> i'll probably break down parser.fs into other files when i start coding in it..
09:19:58 <MrReach> you might want utility.fs ... it's usually the largest files in my apps
09:22:50 <futhin> utility.fs ?
09:22:56 <futhin> what is in it?
09:23:08 <MrReach> just STUFF
09:23:23 <MrReach> little words that are useful everywhere, but don't fit a catagory
09:23:38 <MrReach> like the ToolBelt words
09:23:58 <futhin> i don't know ToolBelt..
09:24:14 <MrReach> an example, !! ( a1 a2 -- ) ... which switches the contents of the addresses pointed to
09:24:48 <MrReach> a very  useful word, but doesn't catagorise easily
09:25:35 <MrReach> http://home.earthlink.net/~neilbawd/toolbelt.html
09:32:21 <MrReach> I wonder how to _precisely_ determine which processor is in my PDA
09:34:37 <futhin> open up the pda :P
09:39:46 <MrReach> bbiab
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09:48:52 <MrReach> I'm back, did you miss me?
09:49:47 <futhin> naw :)
09:50:02 <futhin> i'm too pissed off at netscape right now heh
09:51:18 <MrReach> what's the page URL again?
09:51:22 <futhin> forthmud.sf.net
09:51:42 <futhin> index.html isn't using style
09:51:46 <futhin> i couldn't get the style to work
09:52:13 <futhin> the main problem with the index.html is that netscape isn't maximizing the tables inside the cells..
09:52:29 <futhin> i've got <table bgcolor=white height=100% width=100%> inside cells..
09:54:09 <MrReach> do you want me to have a go at it?
09:54:23 <MrReach> which parts of that layout are important to you?
09:55:04 <futhin> ummm
09:55:10 <futhin> what do you mean?
09:55:37 <MrReach> well, it has a grey background, is that essential?
09:56:08 <MrReach> there is the title, a small bar, and then (apparently) a page counter
09:56:15 <MrReach> are those essential?
09:56:32 <MrReach> there's a TOC on the left, can it be at the top?
09:56:38 <MrReach> etc,etc
09:58:09 <futhin> um.. well i'm really just farting around
09:58:21 <futhin> i really have no clue what kind of layout i should have, what layout would be ideal etc
09:58:25 <MrReach> do you want me to have a go?
09:58:37 <futhin> i'm just playing with this current layout of mine because i want to get the thin-border look
09:58:52 <futhin> go ahead..  do whatever you think will make it look good :)
09:58:59 <MrReach> ok
10:01:29 <futhin> i'm just focusing on getting the thin-border look working, so that i can use it in the future with any other pages 
10:23:51 <futhin> i use netscape 4.76
10:23:56 <futhin> how about you?
10:24:10 <MrReach> 4.75
10:24:25 <MrReach> You'll like this, I think
10:24:26 <futhin> 4.75 better than 4.76? :)
10:24:35 <MrReach> not really
10:24:43 <MrReach> didn't like 6.xx at all, though
10:24:52 <futhin> i don't really know what the difference is between 4.75, 4.76, 4.77
10:25:01 <futhin> so i picked 4.76 heh
10:25:21 <MrReach> neither do I
10:25:33 <MrReach> if I were installing today, it'd prob be 4.77
10:27:24 <futhin> so what are you doing? are you basically going thru the page and editing it by hand or are you starting from scratch or what?
10:28:11 <MrReach> scratch
10:28:14 <futhin> hmm
10:28:16 <futhin> uh
10:28:18 <MrReach> roughly same content
10:28:19 <futhin> ya know
10:28:28 <futhin> i kinda want to do the page myself
10:28:31 <futhin> i just realized
10:28:38 <futhin> heh
10:28:40 <futhin> uh
10:29:03 <MrReach> ok, lemme add some more text, and I'll send it to you
10:29:09 <MrReach> then I'll butt out
10:29:30 <futhin> i kinda want to be able to say to my friends "check out this page that i made!" 
10:34:25 <MrReach> do you have a slogan?
10:35:01 <MrReach> you've got to have something clever to say about the word "MUD"
10:35:11 <futhin> heh
10:35:44 <MrReach> something like, "A clean way to implement a dirty game"
10:36:08 <futhin> a clean way to implement a muddy game
10:36:39 <futhin> simple code for a complex beast
10:38:05 <MrReach> how about "Dirty animal ... Clean code."
10:38:08 <MrReach> ???
10:38:55 <MrReach> or "Only children like to play in the MUD"
10:39:11 <MrReach> or "Not just children like to play in the MUD"
10:39:31 <futhin> naw.. stay away from children stuff
10:39:50 <futhin> most mudders are in their 20s
10:39:50 <MrReach> how about "Come play in the MUD with us."
10:40:29 <MrReach> (tell me if one of these slogans sounds too close to another already in use)
10:40:43 <futhin> i like "a clean way to implement a muddy game"
10:50:52 <nate37> hey
10:51:02 <MrReach> hihi
10:51:09 <futhin> hihi
10:52:13 <nate37> what's up?
10:52:36 <futhin> html hax0ring! 
10:53:17 <futhin> html code is RPN!
10:53:41 <futhin> that is why i'm working on this s00p3r l33t html editor!
10:54:48 <MrReach> it is?
10:54:52 <MrReach> how do you come to that?
10:56:12 <futhin> i dunno
10:56:49 <futhin> one day i was walking along, and i'm like "hey! html is RPN!" and then i'm like "ooooo, html editor in forth!"  and then i forget why it's RPN (if it ever was) :)
10:56:52 <MrReach> postscript is RPN
10:57:06 <MrReach> heh
10:57:32 <futhin> it's a sad story, i how could i ever forget why!! it's RPN.. boohoo! 
10:57:56 <futhin> it had something to do with tables
10:58:19 <futhin> maybe i was thinking of converting html to rpn
10:58:24 <futhin> blah <table>
10:58:29 <MrReach> THAT would be interesting
10:58:34 <futhin> heheh
11:01:07 <futhin> yeah
11:01:42 <futhin> and like i was thinking of an html editor in forth, and building the html code from an RPNized version of html code
11:04:12 <MrReach> hmmm...
11:04:14 <futhin> i was thinking that the html editor would be split into two windows, the top window (75% height) would display the webpage and the bottom window would be the input.  so you'd type stuff and the webpage would be automatically updated everytime you typed something that affected it..
11:04:28 <futhin> so you can see how it'll look right away, as you are typing stuff
11:04:42 <MrReach> yes, WYSIWYG w/ source window
11:04:46 <futhin> and i was thinking that you would be typing in Forth
11:04:59 <futhin> in a Forth vocabulary that was "htmlized"
11:05:12 <futhin> so type blahblah <table>  and table with blahblah would appear
11:05:17 <futhin> or something like that
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11:12:11 <futhin> did you catch what i said?
11:12:18 <futhin> so type blahblah <table>  and table with blahblah would appear
11:12:19 <futhin> or something like that
11:12:32 <MrReach> yes, just caught that
11:12:37 <futhin> ok
11:12:49 <MrReach> one would have to be careful, that might end extremely awkward
11:12:57 <futhin> yeah true..
11:13:15 <MrReach> for example, one can't alway know how many roaws a table will have
11:13:23 <futhin> but the main thing is that the webpage is updated instanteously when you type something :)
11:13:27 <MrReach> especially when extracted from a database search
11:13:35 <futhin> hmm
11:14:13 <MrReach> so you have blah TABLE foo DATA bar DATA NEWROW foo1 DATA bar1 DATA
11:14:28 <MrReach> which ends as a combination of prefix/postfix
11:15:01 <futhin> eh? where's the prefix?
11:15:26 <MrReach> TABLE prefixes DATA
11:15:40 <MrReach> DATA prefixes NEWROW
11:16:10 <futhin> or we could have  blah DATA blah DATA TABLE
11:16:16 <futhin> who knows
11:16:25 <MrReach> heh, linked list of items
11:16:31 <MrReach> that might work
11:16:57 <futhin> it would have to be designed for incrementally adding stuff..
11:17:03 <MrReach> yep
11:17:20 <futhin> so i suppose something like blah TABLE foo DATA would be closer to the actual coding
11:18:04 <futhin> TABLE doesn't really have to "prefix" DATA..
11:18:12 <futhin> foo TABLE
11:18:28 <futhin> bar DATA (adds data to current address or something like that ..)
11:18:38 <futhin> like how some stuff add to HERE
11:18:42 <MrReach> what would foo provide?
11:18:43 <futhin> so like TABLE affects HERE
11:18:50 <futhin> and then DATA would enter stuff to HERE
11:19:10 <futhin> dunno.. :)
11:19:15 <futhin> dunno about foo TABLE heh
11:19:25 <MrReach> hmmm ... this is gonna look bad on IRC ...
11:19:35 <futhin> eh?
11:20:40 <MrReach> s" text" TD 1234 color ATTRIB NEWROW s" more" TD s" 2nd cell" TD TABLE
11:20:59 <MrReach> "text" is in color 1234
11:21:21 <MrReach> ATTRIB alter the attributes of whatever the previous tag was
11:21:42 <MrReach> (and it will throw error is attribute is inapproriate)
11:22:07 <futhin> hmm
11:22:21 <MrReach> TD adds text to end of linked list, NEWROW does the same, but adds mark to list
11:22:33 <futhin> the problem with that is its not very incremental..
11:22:41 <futhin> TABLE needs to be at the begining
11:22:55 <MrReach> TABLE assembles the whole mess into a text block, adds it to a list that will be assembled by HTML-PAGE
11:23:02 <MrReach> not if it's RPN
11:23:09 <futhin> then everything else will be adding to TABLE
11:23:53 <MrReach> otherwise you end up with TABLE ... END-TABLE
11:23:58 <futhin> i didn't really mean 100% RPN.. we want it to be useful ;)
11:24:03 <MrReach> which is right where we started from
11:24:17 <MrReach> or TABLE: ... ;TABLE
11:24:56 <MrReach> ooops, just violated my own naming system, that should be ...
11:25:06 <MrReach> or :TABLE ... TABLE;
11:25:33 <futhin> why can't TABLE do some setup, and place the "text block" in a sepcific place.  and then everything else adds to the TABLE thingie
11:25:51 <futhin> TABLE s" text" TD 1234 color ATTRIB
11:26:07 <futhin> TD and ATTRIB affect the thingie that TABLE setted up
11:27:41 <MrReach> ok ... a variable would point to the chain of the current table being built
11:27:56 <futhin> yeah
11:28:01 <MrReach> TABLE would run the list and build the table, including attributes
11:28:24 <MrReach> simply using TD would add items to the list
11:28:29 <futhin> you don't need ENDTABLE because the next TABLE would change the pointer
11:28:33 <MrReach> no need to start with TABLE
11:28:41 <futhin> and there would be a background loop that constantly updates the webpage
11:28:43 <MrReach> that's correct, would zero the pointer
11:28:49 <futhin> not zero
11:29:03 <MrReach> no, the page itself never gets built until all it's text is pecified
11:29:04 <futhin> point to the new table building place
11:29:24 <MrReach> actually, it would zero it ... here's why
11:29:45 <futhin> the page itself will get built all the time
11:29:57 <MrReach> if TABLE is executed w/o specifying any table data, it sees the zero and ignores it, produces nothing
11:30:06 <MrReach> (run time optional tables)
11:30:13 <futhin> if you type TABLE the page will show the table boom, doesn't matter if there's no text
11:30:21 <futhin> then you type in the text
11:30:24 <futhin> and it shows up on the page
11:30:35 <futhin> and you keep typing in all the stuff
11:30:39 <MrReach> it only does something if some word somewhere (not neccessarily close to this word) actually built some table data
11:30:39 <futhin> and the page keeps updating
11:31:34 <futhin> the main thing is the page keeps updating everytime you type in something..  
11:31:40 <nate37> html is rpn?
11:31:41 <MrReach> there would be another variable, ht-page, that points to a chain used to build the html page itself
11:31:47 <futhin> makes it much more interactive
11:31:50 <MrReach> nate37: not really
11:31:57 <futhin> nate37: YES it is ;)
11:32:02 <nate37> heh
11:32:19 <nate37> yeah i didn't thnk so.... more like marked-up infix no?
11:32:31 <MrReach> yes
11:34:09 <futhin> mrreach:  i want the editor to update the page everytime something is typed in.   i want it to be incremental html coding.   i want the table to show up, and then the text to show up, and you can adjust all the things and see the changes happening right away
11:34:39 <MrReach> that's a seperate issue from an HTML producing engine
11:34:56 <MrReach> that will be impossible if typing raw Forth
11:35:04 <futhin> and the input would be in RPN for incremental html coding..  
11:35:47 <futhin> although it's not pure RPN..  TABLE is typed first
11:37:26 <nate37> how is it RPN?
11:37:57 <nate37> (The editor)
11:39:48 <MrReach> futhin: you're not able to get the file?
11:43:14 <futhin> i didn't notice it
11:43:25 <MrReach> heh, tell me what you think
11:43:36 <MrReach> brb
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11:43:55 <MrReach> see? that didn't hurt     @:^>
11:44:23 <futhin> ooooooh
11:44:35 <futhin> looks pretty snazzy :)
11:45:22 <futhin> what would be even better is the "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs."  was a background picture!  ;)
11:45:33 <futhin> heheh
11:46:22 <MrReach> if you look at the source, it's pretty simple
11:46:56 <MrReach> as a rule, I never use background images
11:47:20 <MrReach> also, use a black background, you can show a larger variety of colors on it
11:47:54 <futhin> nate37: i'm envisioning the coding in the html editor is pseudo-RPN..   in the input part of the html editor, the coding would be incremental (because we want the webpage part of the html editor to update everytime something is typed in).   so for incremental coding, we'd have to have something that was somewhat RPN.   for example, we'd be able to type: TABLE s" text" TD NEWROW s" text" TD
11:51:03 <nate37> ah
11:52:42 <futhin> i gotta go! talk later
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14:28:02 <futhin> hihi
14:28:08 <MrReach> greetings
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15:15:25 <futhin> how do i get rid of the underline in the text of links?
15:15:36 <futhin> how rob_ert
15:15:38 <MrReach> you don't
15:15:39 <futhin> howdy rob_ert
15:15:40 <rob_ert> Hey, just looking in here to check if this channel is still alive :)
15:15:48 <futhin> it's alive with the sound of music!
15:15:55 <MrReach> it's alive, if not a bit sedate
15:16:23 <futhin> a handful of forth coders who hang on this channel have lameass connections, and neglect to idle on here
15:16:47 <futhin> rob_ert: you want me to go all evangelical on your ass? ;)
15:17:42 <rob_ert> Hey futhin :) /me is juuuust fine
15:18:11 <futhin> bah
15:18:17 <rob_ert> It was lot more people here just a few months ago
15:18:22 <futhin> forth is the best! why are you in #asm? :P
15:18:26 <rob_ert> hehe
15:18:38 <MrReach> heh
15:19:19 <futhin> i plead with you to denounce asm and code in forth! learn it, make love to it!
15:19:22 * rob_ert likes asm, and knows no forth. That's one reason.
15:19:32 <rob_ert> Hehe
15:19:36 <futhin> well learn it and make love to it..  after all, it is "interactive"
15:19:55 * rob_ert thinks of BASIC when he hears that
15:19:58 <rob_ert> ;-)
15:20:12 <MrReach> or LISP
15:20:22 <futhin> well basic is an interpreter..  forth isn't really an interpreter
15:20:41 <MrReach> huh?
15:20:52 <MrReach> is too, at multiple levels, even
15:20:57 <futhin> shhh!
15:21:00 <futhin> that
15:21:03 <futhin> that's a secret! ;)
15:21:31 <futhin> it's not completely interpreter..
15:21:44 <MrReach> that's true
15:22:01 <MrReach> the outer interpreter can compile
15:23:40 * rob_ert wonders if you can write a program in forth, and compile it into machine code.
15:23:45 <futhin> yes
15:23:50 <MrReach> you *CAN*
15:24:04 <MrReach> most forths compile to tokens
15:24:19 <MrReach> some compile to native machine code, some optimise
15:24:35 <MrReach> *MOST* forths include an assembler for whatever platform you're on
15:24:46 <rob_ert> okay
15:25:16 <MrReach> the normal development cycle ...
15:25:35 <MrReach> is to write the app in high-level forth, then for real-time apps
15:25:51 <MrReach> a profiler is used to determine where the prog spends its cycles
15:26:02 <MrReach> those parts are rewritten in ASM
15:26:12 <MrReach> all this can be done interactively
15:27:39 <futhin> mrreach: when people think that forth is an interpreted language, they automatically think it is slow.   that's why i was saying it's not an interpreter :)
15:28:33 * MrReach nods.
15:28:38 --- nick: MrReach -> MrGone
15:28:56 <rob_ert> Bye bye
15:46:45 <futhin> rob_ert: it can compile the code into the dictionary as machine code, this is called native-code forth.  native-code isn't necessarily the fastest.  optimized subroutine-threaded code is the fastest. 
15:47:16 <rob_ert> Hm
15:47:29 <rob_ert> "optimized subroutine-threaded"?
15:50:43 <futhin> don't ask me ;)
15:50:57 <rob_ert> heh
15:51:10 <rob_ert> you're just quoting someone who knows forth? ;)
15:51:28 <futhin> the important details:  1) forth runs at close to assembly speeds 2) forth is easy to code in 3) forth is very l33t!
15:51:34 <futhin> that's why you need to learn forth ;)
15:52:21 <rob_ert> Heh... why isn't forth very common?
15:52:34 <rob_ert> I mean
15:52:41 <rob_ert> for PCs/other home computers
15:53:37 <futhin> it's not very common/well known because the online material is pretty poor, because it's not well-promoted, because the standard and previous standards are kinda fucked up for historical reasons
15:54:21 <futhin> the previous standards were more about portability, but not really extending the compiler..  basically left the extending the compiler to the forth programmers in the interest of "experimentation"
15:55:46 <futhin> what we need is something like a common library with all the extensions or something like that
15:56:06 <rob_ert> what do you write extentions in, asm?
15:56:11 <futhin> rob_ert: i agree that a lot of work needs to be done on forth before it'll be attractive to other people..
15:56:32 <futhin> no.. forth is coded in forth..  whenever you are coding forth you are actually extending forth :)
15:59:36 <futhin> i'll get you an url
16:00:18 <futhin> http://dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/forth/forth.html
16:00:25 <futhin> check it out, it'll tell you a bit about how it works
16:00:30 <futhin> i gotta go
16:00:32 <futhin> so see ya
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17:27:47 * rob_ert is away: God natt - Good night!
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20:36:22 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
20:38:56 <tcn> tbw!
20:39:11 <TheBlueWizard> hiya tcn :)
20:39:24 <TheBlueWizard> looks like I lost the op priv here hehe
20:39:47 <tcn> whyat's up?
20:40:28 <TheBlueWizard> nothing much...except some frustrations, as usual :)   you?
20:41:04 <tcn> same here.. and trying to buy a farm :)
20:41:47 <TheBlueWizard> a farm? pourquoi???
20:46:03 <tcn> yeah.. a small farm.. out in the hills.. it's nice
20:46:35 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....planning on farming?
20:47:54 <tcn> yeah, i'm gonna go for it
20:48:57 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....cool
20:49:10 <TheBlueWizard> except that it will be a lot of work
20:50:04 <tcn> yeah.. heh
20:50:30 <tcn> start small
20:52:20 <TheBlueWizard> ha ha...you will have to be able to add land as your farm grows....
20:53:55 <tcn> oh, this one i'm looking at has plenty.. it's all i could handle without getting into expensive machinery
20:54:24 <TheBlueWizard> ok
20:55:23 <tcn> maybe too much, but.. it's hard to find anything worthwhile and here it is
20:57:08 <tcn> i'm still expecting to work in town during the off season
20:57:23 <TheBlueWizard> are you saying you are finding farming worthwhile?
20:57:24 <tcn> and get some music gigs
20:59:16 <tcn> hmm.. i could do some seed farming
21:00:39 <tcn> that might make it profitable.. heh.. can i really make money at it, or just feed myself?
21:00:42 <tcn> heh
21:01:19 <TheBlueWizard> I often hear that farmers often lose money at this....like lousy weather, infesatation, whatever....
21:01:35 <tcn> yeah, bugs!
21:01:35 <TheBlueWizard> YMMV tho'
21:01:47 * TheBlueWizard chuckles
21:02:34 <tcn> well they say don't put all your eggs in one basket.. if someone wants to grow 1000 acres of corn and nothing else, tough luck if it fails :)
21:03:17 <tcn> there seems to be a good market around here for produce & such.. organic especially
21:03:37 * TheBlueWizard nods
21:04:33 <tcn> better food, better profits, no chemical expenses.. just more work :)
21:04:41 <TheBlueWizard> yeah, organic farming is quite popular these days....and I saw one blurb on TV news about a farmer who goes beyond organic farming....I think it is called integrated farming
21:07:05 <tcn> hehe.. ever heard of biodynamic farming? it has some bizarre anthroposophy connection
21:09:32 <TheBlueWizard> never heard of it...then again there are a lot of nutcases running around :P
21:10:49 <tcn> apparently rudolf steiner dreamed it up.. i saw a book on it.. looks like 'integrated farming' with some new age-y mumbo jumbo..
21:13:25 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....thguy in the TV news blurb doesn't come across to me as a nutcase...quite sensible in fact.  bur that guy said many consider him (his technique is imported from Europe) eccentric
21:13:44 <tcn> hmm
21:14:33 <tcn> he's set up his farm so various plants & animals feed off each other?
21:15:59 <TheBlueWizard> yes
21:16:00 <tcn> i like the chinese methods.. small spaces, low-tech, lots of ingenuity
21:16:35 <TheBlueWizard> like chickens eating the bugs off the plants, eliminating the need for chemicals
21:16:54 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...and Japanese method too
21:17:14 <tcn> Korea would be more applicable to me. colder up there :)
21:17:52 <TheBlueWizard> mayhaps...
21:18:09 <TheBlueWizard> well, I need to go to bed...bye all!
21:18:12 <tcn> hehe
21:18:16 <tcn> same here
21:18:28 <tcn> see ya
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