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06:30:22 --- names: list (@clog)
06:30:23 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +nt
06:30:23 --- topic: set to '' by ChanServ
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09:57:31 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o I440r
09:57:37 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o clog
09:57:39 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o MrReach
09:58:01 <MrReach> hihi!
09:58:23 <MrReach> god, listening to this audio feed brings back warm, fuzzy feelings
09:58:50 <MrReach> I used to live about 2 hrs north of Seattle, on my mom's property
09:59:02 <I440r> which sound ?
09:59:12 <MrReach> when I lived there, I used to listen to this public radio station, KUOW
09:59:30 <MrReach> for a long time, they didn't have an IN audio feed
09:59:51 <MrReach> but now they do, and all the familiar voices are still there, after 4 years
10:00:36 <MrReach> does ChanServ know to op me yet?
10:03:25 <I440r> im trying to fing out how high i can add u
10:03:32 <I440r> i tried 1000 then 999
10:03:32 <MrReach> oh, ok
10:03:38 <I440r> ill need to read the help :)
10:03:52 <MrReach> ChanServ has user levels??
10:03:59 <I440r> dunno
10:04:19 <I440r> but level is one of the things you specify when you add someone
10:04:31 <I440r> but theres no help on what level gives access to what
10:04:34 <MrReach> ok
10:04:41 <MrReach> try the website
10:04:45 <MrReach> www.dal.net
10:05:44 <I440r> but thats DAL
10:05:49 <I440r> this isnt heh
10:05:54 <MrReach> oh! duh!!
10:06:17 <I440r> dunno what services are run here
10:06:22 <I440r> mite be based on dal
10:06:28 <I440r> but they are heavilly reworked
10:06:51 <I440r> ohhh
10:06:52 <I440r> heh
10:06:56 <I440r> register you nickname :P
10:07:30 <MrReach> it is registered
10:07:34 <I440r> ya
10:07:37 <I440r> i mistyped the add
10:07:44 <MrReach> heh
10:07:49 <I440r> ok you have access 800 let me see if i can make it higher
10:08:36 <MrReach> working with nickserv is like setting a digital watch ... kinda awkward and clunky
10:08:52 <MrReach> but, like the watch, at least you don't have to do it often
10:08:54 <I440r> hehe you access is 9000
10:09:10 <I440r> ya
10:09:11 <I440r> heh
10:09:35 <MrReach> ok, let's see if it works
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10:09:46 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o MrReach
10:09:58 <I440r> try adduser clog heh
10:10:02 <MrReach> erm ... it shouldn't auto-op
10:10:04 <I440r> just to see if you have the ability
10:10:07 <MrReach> oh well
10:10:09 <MrReach> thanks
10:10:14 <I440r> i just added you
10:10:24 <I440r> i think you can turn auto op off
10:10:34 <MrReach> ok, will look into it
10:11:06 <I440r> ive not abandoned isforth - or this channel btw
10:11:29 <I440r> but with a crappy dial in im not on here 100% of the time like before
10:11:35 <I440r> and i keep forgetting to log in :P
10:11:48 <I440r> and im wasting alot of time in mud :P
10:11:50 <I440r> and 
10:11:59 <I440r> i realy realy realy need a job
10:12:14 <MrReach> yep, drop IRC (for a while) ... and get a life
10:12:17 <I440r> so ive been contacting alot of agencies
10:12:33 <I440r> i need to drop alot and pick up alot of shit ive been neglecvting heh
10:12:48 <I440r> i dont care about a life - as long as i have a jog :P
10:12:50 <I440r> job
10:13:04 <MrReach> warmth = life
10:13:15 <MrReach> no warmth, no home, not much of a life
10:13:18 <I440r> heh house = warmth
10:13:23 <I440r> need job to keep house....
10:13:39 <MrReach> yep, the facts of life for a 6 year-old
10:13:49 <I440r> :)
10:14:15 <MrReach> whatever happened to your old job?
10:14:22 <MrReach> jobs?
10:14:52 <MrReach> c.l.f Subject: Will hack forth for food ... embedded experience
10:15:01 <I440r> well i as working for siemens but they laid of 90% of their r&d
10:15:08 <I440r> nice seperation package tho heh
10:15:20 <I440r> then i was on a contract ion PA with mars electronics
10:15:21 <I440r> that ended
10:15:28 <I440r> i finished the work
10:15:32 * MrReach nods.
10:18:35 <MrReach> are you dialing up with your windows machine?
10:19:26 <MrReach> I see that you're using mirc ... trying to figure out a way that it will auto-connect to openprojects when you make an IN connection
10:19:32 <MrReach> be back in 1/2 hour
10:19:37 --- nick: MrReach -> MrGone
10:19:52 <I440r> yes - windows
10:19:54 <I440r> laptop
10:56:35 --- topic: set to 'do drop >in ansi if abort' by I440r
10:56:39 <I440r> heh
10:56:56 --- topic: set to 'do drop >in ' by I440r
10:57:03 <I440r> ok i got rid of that part :P
11:09:09 --- nick: MrGone -> MrReach
11:09:16 <MrReach> heh
11:09:59 <MrReach> in my vernacular, a word that leaves a flag usually ends in a question mark
11:10:13 <MrReach> ansi? if abort then
11:13:24 <MrReach> : chat enter begin read type finished? until leave ;
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11:23:44 <Speuler> g'day
11:25:30 <Speuler> ne1 home ?
11:27:51 <MrReach> yep, for a few minutes yet
11:29:20 <Speuler> that's good
11:29:22 <Speuler> hi
11:31:03 <MrReach> I just bought a Royal DaVinci DV4 pda
11:31:14 <MrReach> I think I'm going to return it
11:32:19 <Speuler> olivetti ?
11:32:30 <Speuler> butterfly keyboard ?
11:32:42 <Speuler> the elliptic one ?
11:32:53 <MrReach> yep
11:32:56 <Speuler> lo-cost palm clone ?
11:32:58 <MrReach> that's the one
11:33:06 <Speuler> what's wrong with it ?
11:33:20 <MrReach> well, it's got lots of mem
11:33:31 <MrReach> but it is not programmable, like advertised
11:33:49 <MrReach> Royal has had serious problems in supporting the device
11:33:59 <Speuler> you have to spend a few kilobucks for the developer kit ?
11:34:07 <MrReach> the sync doesn't work very well at all
11:34:17 <MrReach> there *IS* no developer kit
11:34:35 <MrReach> been promised for a year, but no dice ... just vaporware
11:34:58 <Speuler> there's the coldfire in it i think
11:35:32 <MrReach> it's so bad that people are trying to decompile the memory image used for the rom update
11:35:53 <MrReach> also, it says that it has an alarm function, but ...
11:36:15 <MrReach> the beep is so soft that I can't hear it when it's in my pocket in a quiet room
11:36:23 <MrReach> much less while driving or in the field
11:36:50 <MrReach> (none of the pda's may improve on this)
11:37:20 <Speuler> but that's good. it means the alarm won't distract you while driving
11:37:36 <MrReach> heh
11:37:43 <MrReach> it's supposed to
11:37:47 <Speuler> oh, the cock sound on my psion works quite well
11:38:11 <MrReach> the "cock sound", eh?
11:38:24 <Speuler> especially when i can look very inconspicously when people complain about that animal what woke them up in the morning :)
11:38:39 * MrReach laughs.
11:38:50 <Speuler> used it in hostels
11:39:28 <Speuler> the breaking glass is also very effective
11:39:45 <MrReach> it has digital sound?
11:39:51 <MrReach> that's *WAY* cool
11:39:57 <Speuler> or the start trek whoop whoop
11:40:14 <MrReach> this stupid thing only has a tiny pieziolectric sound maker
11:40:21 <Speuler> you can record sounds with the build-in microphone, and use them as alarm sounds too
11:40:25 <MrReach> which was yours, the revo+
11:40:31 <Speuler> no, the psion5
11:40:33 <Speuler> older model
11:40:37 <Speuler> predecessor of the mx
11:40:45 <Speuler> rom-based
11:40:49 <Speuler> os
11:40:56 <Speuler> in mx, os sits in ram
11:41:11 * MrReach nods
11:41:13 <Speuler> and mx has slightly better display
11:41:16 <Speuler> higher contrast
11:41:18 <MrReach> or at least FLASHROM
11:41:26 <Speuler> mx is ram based design
11:41:43 <Speuler> if both power sources fail, you must reload the os
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11:42:35 <Speuler> has a small pill-shaped backup battery, for when you replace the two AA cells
11:42:36 <futhin> sup all
11:42:43 <Speuler> hi futhin
11:43:39 <MrReach> greetings, futhin
11:43:45 --- mode: MrReach set mode: +oo futhin Speuler
11:43:58 <Speuler> thank you
11:44:36 <MrReach> Speuler: you like the Revo?
11:45:14 <Speuler> w/o on-board interpreter, it is somewhat less usable the the mx
11:45:18 <Speuler> alkso, it has a smaller screen
11:45:34 <Speuler> but the interpreter is not too useful anyway
11:45:42 <Speuler> kind of extended basic
11:45:50 <Speuler> but better than nothing
11:45:54 <Speuler> i have written a forth in it
11:46:11 <MrReach> several have forth for the machine, I should imagine
11:46:16 <Speuler> you can't call machine code from the interpreter
11:46:27 <Speuler> don't think so
11:46:33 <MrReach> oh
11:46:41 <Speuler> it is my understanding that my PsiForth is the only one in existance
11:47:00 <Speuler> but there was a project to port another forth to it
11:47:05 <Speuler> eforth or similar
11:47:16 <Speuler> by a certain  matt grumbley
11:47:52 <Speuler> i offered to help/write a native mode forth if somebody could deliver an opl-loadable module, to allow opl to call machine code
11:48:13 <Speuler> should be simple for one who uses the psion c++ development kit
11:48:26 <Speuler> but never put into realitiy
11:48:29 <MrReach> no response to your offer?
11:48:32 <Speuler> so, no native mode forth
11:48:43 <Speuler> i tried for a few months to get such a module
11:48:47 <Speuler> also tried psion
11:48:56 <Speuler> i got response !
11:49:06 <Speuler> saying they don't support opl
11:49:19 <Speuler> (opl is the on-board interpreter)
11:49:19 <futhin> mrreach: i was looking at the log for today.  i like your use of a question mark in the word if the word returns a flag.  
11:50:18 <MrReach> psions are WAY expensive for the offered features
11:50:32 <futhin> awhile ago i wondered what it would be like to differentiate the CONSTANTs and VARIABLEs and the CORE WORDS.. some vernacular so that it is obvious that the word is a constant or a non-core word, ect..
11:50:36 <Speuler> for a while, they were the best you could get
11:50:38 <MrReach> futhin: thank you
11:50:46 <Speuler> but they become obsolete now
11:51:18 <Speuler> futhin: why would you want to know ?
11:51:24 <MrReach> futhin: where is the log for this channel?
11:51:29 <Speuler> after all, as variable is  ( -- addr )
11:51:38 <Speuler> and a constant is ( -- value )
11:51:47 <futhin> www.tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth   clog is a bot that logs lots of channels..
11:51:47 <Speuler> : foo   5  ;
11:51:52 <Speuler> 5 constant bar
11:51:57 <MrReach> thank you
11:52:05 <Speuler> same effect, different types of words
11:52:09 <futhin> i find it handy
11:52:18 <Speuler> so, c_foo and hi_bar 
11:52:32 <Speuler> wouldn't make much sense, i think
11:53:10 <futhin> speuler:  suppose that we decide that it is a constant if we put # in the word.   so  : foo# 5 ;  or 5 constant foo#
11:53:14 <Speuler> try to think in terms of  "nouns" and "verbs" and "adjectives"
11:53:44 <Speuler> what would make a constant a constant ?
11:53:46 <futhin> by distinguishing the words it might make it easier to code..
11:53:49 <MrReach> well, folks, I'm gonna get a bite of lunch
11:54:01 --- nick: MrReach -> MrLunch
11:54:21 <Speuler> what about      here  cell allot   constant  foo    
11:54:22 <futhin> word?  <--  vernacular for "returns a flag"
11:54:33 <Speuler> 2 foo !     foo @ . 
11:54:34 <futhin> word#  <-- vernacular for "is a constant.. puts value on stack"
11:54:53 <futhin> word*  <--  vernacular for "variable, can change later.. "
11:54:54 <futhin> etc
11:54:54 <Speuler> foo, being a constant, behaves like a variable
11:55:11 <futhin> i'm not talkign about the coding! i'm talking about the naming conventions for the words
11:55:20 <MrLunch> ?word <- vernacular for a word that may or may not perform some action, depending what is on the stack
11:55:34 <futhin> if we name words in a specific way, we can know what the word does.
11:55:47 <MrLunch> like ?DO
11:55:59 <MrLunch> CUL8R
11:56:00 <futhin> it might help us to read forth code, if we know if the word is a constant or a variable..
11:56:08 <Speuler> l8er reach
11:56:23 <futhin> eat the good lunch mrluch
11:56:31 <futhin> mrlunch
11:56:43 <Speuler> given a well chosen name, we might too, or even may ignore it
11:57:30 <futhin> speuler:  i've looked at some code and i wasn't able to tell which word is a variable and which word is a word.   i had to look at the previous code to find out..
11:58:00 <I440r> hi guys!
11:58:02 <I440r> :)
11:58:04 <futhin> s/word/name    which name is a variable and which name is a word
11:58:08 <futhin> hi i440r!
11:58:13 <I440r> bongo - i sent resume to that guy
11:58:28 <Speuler> hi i440
11:58:35 <I440r> i dont think inm gona get a job thru him till the new yuear and i NEEEEED a job immediatly if not sooner :)
11:59:26 <Speuler> what was the result of you correspondence ?
11:59:48 <I440r> not much
12:00:02 <futhin> i440r:  create the job.   figure out exactly what job you want, then go to some company that you can do the job at, then volunteer there for a month, and make yourself indispensable!  then at the end of the month, say "so, do you want to hire me?"
12:00:29 <Speuler> what did he want to know about you ?
12:00:31 <I440r> he mailed me asking for an updated resume - i sent him resume - end of stroy
12:00:34 <I440r> story
12:00:35 <futhin> i'm young, so that's my strategy :P
12:02:36 <Speuler> did he sound interested ?
12:02:37 <I440r> :)
12:04:30 <I440r> i have no idea
12:06:32 <I440r> i REALY need a job REAL fast
12:06:48 <I440r> any way you could get the ppl you are working for to contract me through my dads agency ?
12:06:57 <I440r> like - realy soon ? :)
12:07:11 <futhin> i440r: what area do you live in?
12:08:10 <Speuler> what skills did your resume highlite ?
12:08:22 <I440r> forth
12:08:23 <I440r> asm
12:08:25 <I440r> embedded control
12:08:30 <Speuler> sounds good
12:08:40 <I440r> want me to send you a copy of my resume ?
12:08:41 <Speuler> xactly what he would be looking for
12:08:50 <Speuler> would that help ?
12:09:39 <I440r> dont know - you could give it to your boss and have him contact my father to work out a deal
12:10:14 <Speuler> my boss ? that's me :)
12:10:21 <Speuler> my agent ?
12:10:40 <I440r> well. whoever you are working for
12:10:46 <I440r> the company
12:10:50 <I440r> your supervisor
12:11:03 <Speuler> i'm free-lancing
12:11:43 <I440r> well - the ppl you are free-lancing for - do they need more bodies ?
12:11:53 <Speuler> the company i free-lance for has stopped hiring people. instead, they put on more externals now
12:12:13 <Speuler> probably. but they get them through agencies 
12:12:18 <I440r> more contracvtors?
12:12:19 <Speuler> like the one of mr rapp
12:12:24 <I440r> well.
12:12:27 <Speuler> yes, contractors
12:12:37 <I440r> have them contact my dads agency :)
12:12:39 <I440r> ?
12:13:15 <Speuler> from employees (project leaders) i understand that it is much easier to get somebody in through agency than by direct aquisition
12:13:58 <I440r> well my dads company IS AN AGENCY!!
12:14:45 <futhin> ask nasa
12:15:09 <futhin> check the nasa site for jobs or something.. or email a forth coder at nasa
12:16:12 <I440r> ill brb - i need a shower and cant stay logged in while afk - i get idle disconnected anyway :P
12:16:15 <I440r> ill brb tho
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13:45:49 <MrReach> hihi
13:45:53 * futhin is coding his ansi.fs for the mud
13:46:08 <MrReach> good for you
13:46:21 <futhin> i'm just going thru the ansi escape sequences text file and putting it into forth code
13:46:21 <MrReach> looks like I've decided on a PDA, finally
13:46:29 <MrReach> yup
13:46:41 <MrReach> and I'll be returning to my project here shortly, too
13:46:43 <futhin> i don't even know if i'll use all of the ansi stuff.. but who cares :P
13:47:07 <futhin> what PDA have you picked?
13:47:32 <MrReach> looks like I'm going to pay $199.99+tx for an HP Jornada 525
13:47:48 <MrReach> and $99 for a stowable keyboard
13:47:58 <MrReach> and $99 for a cell-phone interface
13:47:58 <futhin> heh
13:48:06 <futhin> hmm
13:49:05 <MrReach> now, if I can just get them to stop sending the stupid damn porn ads to my favorite email address
13:49:31 <MrReach> they come from various places, so I can't filter them out
13:49:46 <futhin> heheh
13:50:06 <futhin> never ever ever give out your email addresses to sites :P
13:50:14 <MrReach> I don't
13:50:20 <MrReach> I can't figure out how they got it
13:50:36 <MrReach> bigfoot or yahoo prob gave the adr away
13:51:12 <MrReach> it get's expensive to download porn ads at 4800-9600 baud at 40 cents a minute
13:51:13 <futhin> maintain two email addresses.. one for when you need to give an email address to recieve password.. and a 2nd email address for interacting with people..  maybe a 3rd email for mailing lists would be a good idea too..
13:51:33 <futhin> you can probably set it up not to download pictures..
13:51:34 <MrReach> that's a good idea, actually
13:51:56 <MrReach> no, it won't download pics unless they are mime-encoded in the message
13:52:12 <MrReach> even then, I can tell the mail client not to get the msg if its > 4kb
13:52:15 <futhin> with that kind of connection for the pda, i'd probably turn off the pictures in the browser..  or get lynx or something..
13:52:42 <MrReach> it's not the browser I'm worried about ... it's pop-mail
13:52:54 <MrReach> I don't need to browse the web from my car
13:53:09 <futhin> yeah
13:53:17 <MrReach> if I need to browse the web on the road, I'll use an IN cafe'
13:53:47 <futhin> so why did you pick jornada ?
13:54:03 <MrReach> what I *DO* need is email and to be able to download my voicemail
13:54:10 <MrReach> a couple of reasons
13:54:18 <futhin> you lied, it's 299 bucks for the jornada USD ..
13:54:22 <MrReach> for one, it has the loadest of all the alarms
13:54:32 <futhin> heh
13:54:45 <MrReach> I went to Office Depot and manually compared 15 different models
13:55:04 <MrReach> (rather irritated the other shoppers, I think)
13:55:08 <futhin> heheh
13:55:18 <MrReach> also, it has Microsoft CE
13:55:30 <MrReach> which means the MP3 players come standard
13:55:39 <MrReach> it has a built-in microphone
13:55:50 <MrReach> which I will find invaluable
13:56:08 <futhin> is it fast?
13:56:18 <MrReach> oh, and it's the cheapest color machine on the market
13:56:28 <MrReach> well, don't know about fast
13:56:38 <futhin> if it can play mp3s while you are doing excel.. it must be faster than my p133 mhz comp
13:56:41 <MrReach> don't need much fast to write notes and appointents
13:56:58 <MrReach> according to this little flyer I have ...
13:57:09 <MrReach> it's a 133MHz Hitachi RISC
13:57:16 <futhin> hmm
13:57:36 <futhin> well there's the overhead too..  windows 98 prolly has more overhead than CE
13:58:22 <MrReach> yes, and handwriting recognition on a touch-screen EATS MIPS
14:00:44 <futhin> the keyboard makes the pda much more useful
14:01:56 <MrReach> software: Outlook, Word, Excel, Money, Media Player, Jukebox, Explorer
14:02:08 <MrReach> yes, that is why they are so expensive
14:02:20 <futhin> get a used keyboard or something..
14:02:45 <futhin> if i ever saw a used pda and keyboard i might pick it up if it was decently cheap
14:03:18 <MrReach> I'm tired of buying used shit
14:03:33 <MrReach> I've owned so many cars with "personality" it's pathetic
14:03:47 <MrReach> (not that I'll *EVER* buy a new car)
14:04:08 <MrReach> wouldn't buy a new car if I were a billionaire
14:05:12 <futhin> heh
14:05:14 <MrReach> right now, I've got a Royal DaVinci PD4 sitting on my desk
14:05:30 <MrReach> 16MB ram, keyboard, for $100
14:05:44 <MrReach> but I simply can't hear the alarm, so I'm going to return it
14:05:51 <MrReach> sorry, 8MB ram
14:06:10 <MrReach> and then spend 4x as much
14:06:57 <futhin> my mom has owned so many used cars that she got sick of how much money it was costing her to maintain/repair her car when it started falling apart.   finally she bought a new car, a mazda, and it's lasted her for 8 years now, with very little maintainance needed
14:07:01 <MrReach> You ought to see the color on the Jornadas, it's gorgeous ... Palm color doesn't hold a candle to it
14:07:16 * MrReach nods.
14:07:18 <futhin> buying a new car can save money in the long run
14:07:28 <MrReach> no it doesn't
14:07:32 <futhin> but _don't_ ever buy hyundai heh
14:07:41 <MrReach> buying a one or two year-old car would have the same effect
14:07:49 <MrReach> I don't intend to
14:08:07 <MrReach> I like my Camry, though it's got a lot of miles
14:08:17 <futhin> along the highway, whenever there's an abandoned car along the side, it's likely to be a hyundai ;)
14:08:32 <MrReach> if I were to choose another car, it would probably be either a Subaru Outback or a KIA something
14:09:23 <MrReach> I like the Subaru all-wheel-drive ... and they're darn tough
14:09:51 <futhin> SUVs kinda guzzle gas though..
14:10:02 <MrReach> heh, Subaru does most of its business in making farm tractors, if you didn't know
14:10:18 <MrReach> who said SUV?
14:10:36 <MrReach> Outback is a family car, specifically a station wagon
14:11:36 <MrReach> almost exactly the same dimensions as my Camry station wagon, come to think of it
14:11:54 <MrReach> except sits 9" higher
14:11:56 <futhin> KIA is korean made right?  i recall hearing from a friend KIAs aren't very good..
14:12:09 <MrReach> yes
14:12:19 <MrReach> but 10 year/100,000 mile warranty
14:12:39 <MrReach> and has won the trans-african continental race for 3 years running
14:13:20 <MrReach> you can't do that with a cheap car, and they're not allowed to modify from stock except for shocks and welding on brackets to hold gear
14:14:11 <futhin> yeah.. what i heard was that koreans don't even touch KIAs.  and if you know anything about asian culture, you'd know that they are much more likely to buy cars manufactured in their country..   if they aren't buying KIAs that they manufactured, that says something.. about the quality of the cars..
14:14:19 <futhin> huh
14:14:39 <MrReach> did you read what I wrote?
14:14:42 <futhin> just now
14:14:43 <futhin> heh
14:15:09 <futhin> that's definitely new info heh
14:15:21 <MrReach> the only reason I was looking at KIAs was because of their kick-ass tough reputation
14:15:25 <futhin> KIAs are SUVs right? 
14:15:38 <MrReach> that's right up there with Hum Vs
14:15:55 <MrReach> yes, KIA makes an SUV, but also smaller cars
14:16:12 <futhin> and the continential race was done in the SUV or no?
14:16:21 <MrReach> yes, was done in the SUV
14:16:43 <MrReach> I've also considered a Hum-V
14:16:51 <MrReach> but you don't get much for your money
14:17:07 <MrReach> although what you DO get won't ever break, even if you abuse it
14:17:50 <futhin> a hummer is roomy though
14:17:56 <MrReach> no it isn't
14:17:59 <MrReach> it's tiny
14:18:04 <futhin> you can prolly fit in tons of stuff in the back?
14:18:37 <MrReach> yes, you can put 2,000 lbs in it, but the bed is 4' long and 6' wide (very wide vehicle)
14:18:57 <futhin> how many ppl can you fit in it with no other luggage?  
14:19:03 <MrReach> heh, the only way to get 2,000 lbs in that tiny area is to fill it with wet sand
14:19:09 <MrReach> 5, I think
14:19:19 <MrReach> 2 in front and 3 in back
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14:19:24 <futhin> 5 ppl and stuff in the bed?
14:19:29 <MrReach> yes
14:19:31 <futhin> that's plently roomy
14:19:35 <MrReach> greetings, qless
14:19:39 <qless> hey all
14:19:45 <futhin> hi qless
14:19:49 <MrReach> qless: how many people does a stock Hum-
14:19:55 <MrReach> qless: how many people does a stock Hum-V carry?
14:20:08 <MrReach> aren't the front seats buckets?
14:20:22 <qless> hmmm, i'm going to guess 6
14:20:30 <MrReach> ok, bench in front?
14:20:39 <qless> yep
14:20:43 <MrReach> been a while since I poked around one
14:20:54 <qless> i've only ever seen one and it was on the highway
14:21:00 <futhin> qless: are you calgarian?
14:21:12 <qless> crazy as it seems, yes
14:21:23 <futhin> i'm calgarian..
14:21:36 <qless> where's your rope?
14:21:38 <qless> :-)
14:21:46 <futhin> heh
14:22:17 <qless> let me guess, you're a north wester?
14:22:19 <MrReach> futhin: my ford crew cab carries 6 with room to spare, can lay a 2,000 lbs of 4'x8' sheetrock flat in the bed, and I've hauled 10,000 lbs for 800 miles and three 5,000ft+ mountain passes non-stop
14:22:19 <futhin> a month ago i went to get the leo brodie Starting Forth from the library, but it was out..
14:22:25 <futhin> qless: yes.. north west
14:23:02 <futhin> mrreach: is there enough leg room in the cab for 6 nba players?
14:23:06 <qless> futhin: put it on hold
14:23:10 <MrReach> yes, there is
14:23:20 <MrReach> it's gigantic
14:23:20 <futhin> qless: was it you though? :)
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14:23:33 <qless> guilty as charged
14:23:37 <futhin> heh
14:23:37 <qless> :)
14:23:42 <MrReach> wb, Speuler
14:23:47 <Speuler> 'day again
14:23:53 <futhin> so where abouts in calgary are you?
14:24:04 <qless> south east
14:24:11 --- mode: futhin set mode: +oo qless Speuler
14:24:18 <futhin> why did you guess north west?
14:24:30 <Speuler> thnak you futhin
14:24:43 <MrReach> Speuler: looks like I'm gonna get an HP Jornada 525 PDA ($199.99) w/ a foldable keyboard ($99) and a cell-phone adapter ($99)
14:24:45 <qless> just lucky i guess
14:25:02 <qless> anyone here subscribe to Forth Dimensions?
14:25:16 <futhin> mrreach:  you mean $299.99 don't you?
14:25:16 <Speuler> oh no. these things are afaik wince-only systems ...
14:25:25 * Speuler winces
14:25:33 <MrReach> so now we're talking $400 instead of $100 that I paid for this stupid Royal DaVinci DV4
14:25:57 <MrReach> futhin: no, $199
14:26:08 <futhin> hp page shows it as 299
14:26:15 <MrReach> Speuler: in fact, it was the WinCE that sold me on it
14:26:34 <MrReach> futhin: then I better buy it today, rather than tomorrow
14:27:09 <MrReach> Speuler: it comes packaged with all the apps that I use everyday now
14:27:22 <Speuler> mrreach, you must be a man with a weird taste.
14:27:22 <MrReach> (and many that I don't, like outlook)
14:27:34 <MrReach> Speuler: why is that?
14:27:54 <Speuler> i mean, liking wince is one thing, but admitting it ??
14:28:42 <futhin> heh
14:29:17 <Speuler> i4d prefer a flu which keeps me down for a week to wince
14:29:48 <futhin> i'd get a pda and code a native forth for it ;)
14:29:56 <Speuler> yes
14:29:58 <futhin> with a keyboard for the pda
14:30:58 <Speuler> the foldable ones look cute
14:31:09 <Speuler> but you need a flat surface
14:31:16 <Speuler> which is a disadvantage
14:31:18 <MrReach> the foldables aren't quite as easy to use, though, that I can tell
14:31:26 <Speuler> especially if there ain't one
14:31:54 <MrReach> Speuler: have you ever used WindowsCE? Why do you dislike it so much?
14:31:58 <Speuler> i tried the ipaq foldable keyboard. it felt quite good
14:32:05 <Speuler> because it is microsoft
14:32:28 * MrReach bangs his head against the table, "Will they ever learn?"
14:32:49 <Speuler> microsoft is evil, and bill gates is the devil incarnate
14:33:11 <MrReach> he is if you get on his bad side, I'll say that much
14:33:32 <futhin> i boycott microsoft, because i do not like particular aspects about microsoft.  even if WinCE is beautiful, i don't care.  it is microsoft, and i boycott all microsoft products.
14:33:37 <Speuler> one day they'll give you a needle with a package
14:33:50 <Speuler> so you can sign the eula with blood
14:34:00 <MrReach> I *USED* to be a sofware engineer ... now I'm a real-estate investor
14:34:30 <MrReach> as a real-estate investor, I can reasonable expect $200-$400/hr income a year from now
14:34:45 <futhin> speuler: nonsense, they will package a GPS and blood sugar monitoring system
14:34:51 <MrReach> so, when I buy  software, I buy it to USE IT
14:34:58 <Speuler> so get yourself something reasonable :)
14:35:06 <futhin> and everyone will be expected to ram the GPS & blood sugar monitoring system up their ass
14:35:08 <futhin> gotta
14:35:09 <futhin> go
14:35:10 --- quit: futhin (bye)
14:35:27 <MrReach> if the software requires ANY fussing around with it, it's stealing from my income ... and that's a nono
14:37:46 <MrReach> do you disagree?
14:38:18 <MrReach> if you can point me to software that does as much for as little configuration, I'd be glad to consider it
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14:38:33 <MrReach> if you can point me to software that does as much for as little configuration, I'd be glad to consider it
14:39:38 <Speuler> what 'd you call "fussing around with" ?
14:40:28 <futhin> windows has caused me to lose time because there are a number of things that i cannot do in windows efficiently.  linux on the other hand, requires a MASSIVE amount of time to learn it, and to configure it - however, in the long run, you will be able to be more productive.
14:40:47 <futhin> but neither of these are attractive to me
14:40:59 <MrReach> "fussing around with" ... 6-8hrs minimum to tune up a Linux box
14:41:00 <futhin> (a shameless plug) hence - forth os.   
14:41:40 <MrReach> hours and hours trying to get a piece of software to do what it is advertised to do
14:41:53 <MrReach> (ip port forwarding)
14:42:30 <Speuler> you4ll put 2 nics in the handheld ?
14:42:34 <futhin> windows is usable with very little configurationg granted..  but there are a number of things that have forced me to spend some hours doing said thing in a crude manner
14:42:42 <MrReach> I'm not a real fan of Microsoft business practices myself, they are heavy handed and ruthless
14:43:34 <MrReach> but they ARE a business, and conduct themselves as such ... they're software generally doesn't break, and does what it is advertised to do
14:44:14 <futhin> hmm
14:44:36 * MrReach grouses about having to reboot twice or three times a day.
14:44:40 <futhin> "doesn't break" ..  i .. gulp.. suppose so 
14:44:48 <futhin> cough
14:44:55 * MrReach chuckles.
14:45:08 <futhin> naw, i disagree, it isn't very stable.. 
14:45:44 <MrReach> application with memory leaks will kill windows, eventually requiring a reboot
14:45:51 <futhin> my previous installation of windows you couldn't leave it on and leave it alone for more than 3 hours or it froze up completely 
14:46:02 <futhin> then i reinstalled it and it's been fine so far
14:46:13 <MrReach> but it has been quite some time since I've actually lost data here on my Win98 box
14:46:20 <futhin> every installation i've done tends to have a personality ;)
14:46:46 <futhin> bah, it's hard to lose data, when it's on the harddrive then what's the big deal?  
14:46:48 <MrReach> futhin: oh? did you try disabling the instant messaging software?
14:47:03 <futhin> what instant messaging software?  i'm using win98
14:47:47 <MrReach> futhin: ICQ, AOL AIM, MS Messenger, Yahoo Instant Messeger ... they are all notorious for memory leaks that will kill a machine
14:47:58 <Speuler> t's getting l8 for me
14:47:59 <MrReach> futhin: erm ... how much mem do you have?
14:48:10 <Speuler> gotta get up early 2morrow morning agn
14:48:18 <MrReach> ok, Speuler, sorry to get on a high-horse
14:48:24 <Speuler> i bid u farewell
14:48:28 <MrReach> sleep well
14:48:35 <Speuler> g'd night 2 u
14:48:42 <futhin> good night speuler
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14:49:23 <futhin> it's weird that ICQ, AIM, Messenger, YIM are all memory leakers..  a conspiracy? ;)
14:49:24 <MrReach> I should get back to my coding project, also
14:49:29 <futhin> what's your coding project?
14:49:41 <MrReach> that light/sound machine I told you about
14:50:16 <futhin> ah
14:50:20 <MrReach> heh, futhin, it's that they're all memory resident and handle a constant (if small) stream of data
14:50:32 <futhin> so?  what about irc?
14:50:54 <MrReach> most people don't stay on IRC 24/7
14:51:02 <MrReach> and mirc is DAMN good software
14:51:10 <futhin> hmm.. mirc is ok
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14:51:27 <futhin> not many other choices..
14:51:49 <futhin> but irc is more or less an "instant messenging software" heh..
14:51:57 <futhin> the interface is just different
14:52:26 <futhin> i could code an irc client that felt like icq..  and you'd know when your friend is on irc, and then you can message him
14:52:44 <futhin> s/i/anybody
14:53:23 <futhin> bah
14:53:29 <futhin> i should go
14:53:38 <futhin> so talk to you later
14:53:43 <futhin> have fun with your project
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