00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.07.02 01:37:37 --- quit: klooie (Ping timeout for klooie[213-84-79-23.adsl.xs4all.nl]) 01:37:39 --- join: klooie (kloo@213-84-79-23.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #forth 02:59:33 --- quit: klooie (Ping timeout for klooie[213-84-79-23.adsl.xs4all.nl]) 02:59:35 --- join: klooie (kloo@213-84-79-23.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #forth 03:41:02 --- join: robert (robost86@h3n1fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 03:42:04 --- nick: robert -> rob_ert 04:13:31 --- nick: rob_ert -> rob_ert_aw_ay 05:25:39 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 06:30:28 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o I440r 06:30:40 --- mode: I440r set mode: +ooo aaronl clog klooie 06:30:57 --- mode: I440r set mode: +ooo MrShower nate37 rob_ert_aw_ay 06:31:03 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Trey 07:20:41 --- join: cleverdra (jfondren@1Cust209.tnt4.florence.sc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 07:20:41 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o cleverdra 07:27:34 Good morning, cleverdra. 07:29:18 good morning, Trey =) 07:33:11 hi 07:33:22 i been reading clf 07:33:35 someone there mentioned this channel :) 07:34:13 Do anyone know what CPU casio graph calculators use? 07:34:15 eh? /me looks 07:34:22 ooh... not casio. 07:34:29 I mean, I don't know what casio uses =) 07:34:45 I know TI use zilogs processors 07:34:55 they do ? 07:35:05 they dont use their own ???? heeh 07:35:16 Hmm.. Maybe 07:35:22 zilogs? I thought TI used some typical-like 16-bit cpu. 07:35:29 No, TI doesn't make their own. HP makes their own. 07:35:45 TI uses z80. I wanna see if there is a way to program my Casio calc =) 07:35:52 (with asm of course) 07:35:53 ti makes micro controllers 07:36:04 HP49G has something called a Saturn mumble -- it's a four bit computer which a bunch of specialized registers. 07:36:10 s/ized// 07:36:28 nec 75x is 4 bit 07:36:29 doesn't casio have a user-group webpage? 07:37:46 : sleep 07:37:51 bed go tuck 07:37:59 light off ; immediate 07:38:20 me go zzz for a cpl of hours - was up all nite reading clf :) 07:38:34 i440r - no, don't make it immediate! 07:38:39 i440r - good night =) 07:38:43 hehe 07:39:15 night 07:39:44 i wrote that word at least 10 years ago after seeing the fort dimentions "do drop >in" joke heeh 07:42:15 : sleep bed on light off tuck on conciousness off bye ; -- if variables are your state =) 07:42:40 what time is it for you, I440r? 07:44:50 hang on ill go look :) 07:45:41 0930 07:46:02 that's late... 07:46:22 V-E-R-Y late ;) 07:47:22 I440r - oh, yeah. See you in a few hours =) 07:48:41 heeh 08:09:29 --- quit: rob_ert_aw_ay (Read error to rob_ert_aw_ay[h3n1fls33o898.telia.com]: Connection reset by peer) 08:47:37 --- nick: MrShower -> MrReach 08:52:10 long shower, MrReach. wb 08:55:16 yep, it was 08:55:20 and thank you 09:44:58 --- quit: cleverdra (Ping timeout for cleverdra[1Cust209.tnt4.florence.sc.da.uu.net]) 09:53:22 --- join: rob_ert_aw_ay (robost86@h3n1fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 09:58:56 --- quit: rob_ert_aw_ay () 10:59:46 --- join: cleverdra (jfondren@1Cust69.tnt4.florence.sc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 10:59:46 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o cleverdra 11:00:00 hey, cleverdra. 11:00:42 hello klooie 11:00:50 * klooie has a new contract. 11:01:09 I'm moving between work and the 'net, so don't be surprised if I take a bit of time to respond sometimes. 11:01:15 cool! Doing what? 11:01:26 sure, no worries. 11:01:33 i'm not entirely sure. :) 11:01:53 some very urgent c ksh sql hackery. 11:02:55 a pretty generic job really, but it's good to have work again. 11:09:55 well, cool. 11:10:02 What'd you think of oopbad.htm ? 11:11:31 very interesting. 11:12:24 he lists all my objections (wording them better), and then quite some more though most of them are related. 11:13:04 it's certainly an interesting person who writes something like that. 11:13:45 .. a crusader. :) 11:14:11 yes =) That's a very good word, I think. 11:15:08 oh, and no pun intended with "objections". :) 11:15:25 heh. 11:22:42 http://sinfest.net/comics/sf20010126.gif 11:46:57 helooo 11:50:26 hello aaron. 12:10:36 back 12:31:33 Anyone got a full URL for the oopbad.htm page? 12:31:37 * Trey has returned 12:32:16 Trey - sure, one sec. 12:33:08 http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm 12:33:21 I /almost/ remembered it. tablizer, not tabilizer. 12:43:24 oopbad.htm ? i gotta read that :) 13:23:35 * aaronl is away: southparkl 13:24:05 --- quit: cleverdra (Ping timeout for cleverdra[1Cust69.tnt4.florence.sc.da.uu.net]) 13:33:47 --- join: cleverdra (jfondren@1Cust186.tnt4.florence.sc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 13:34:10 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Chuck+Moore&start=10&hl=en&group=comp.lang.forth.*&safe=off&rnum=15&ic=1&selm=33F6003D.43B4%40starcenter.com 13:40:29 heh 13:41:06 --- mode: Trey set mode: +o cleverdra 13:43:21 hello Trey 13:43:29 Howdy cleverdra. 13:51:57 cleverdra: any word from Pringle about when he'll get user variables fixed? 13:58:33 im gona put a link to that oopbad in my page hehe 13:59:20 i wont be using user variables in isforth 13:59:31 linux is already multi user 13:59:44 ill bve using VARIABLES 14:03:08 VARIABLES? 14:03:55 I440r: will isforth support threads? 14:08:36 ping I440r 14:09:32 http://sinfest.net/comics/sf20010327.gif 14:09:38 Trey - do you mean multitasking? 14:10:17 Trey - um, re the Flux vardefine bug I noted? No, I haven't gotten a response. Probably in the next release. It's a simple thing, really. 14:10:44 What vardefine bug? 14:11:35 VARDEFINE in the flux source uses CREATE where it should use DEFINE. Without this change, your variables created with VARDEFINE will break. 14:11:36 Also, I use mult-threading to mean multiple threads of execution in the same process/team. I use multi-tasking to mean multiple applications/teams/processes . 14:12:34 Trey - oh, yeah. isforth is a hosted Forth, so it'll need to make that distinction -- but it'll probably use 'multitasking' like everyone else, since 'threading' in Forth has an entirely different meaning. 14:13:02 The historical Forth systems don't really have teams per se, so they called multi-threading multi-tasking. 14:13:15 --- join: notjunkd (junk@p49-max1.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 14:13:32 peace be I440r awake in here? hi, i440r? ya dere nig 14:14:05 i440r i got this when trying to remove it 14:14:19 :) 14:14:28 it said that task-x-window-system needs xdm 14:14:45 --- mode: cleverdra set mode: +o notjunkd 14:14:47 dpkg --purge task-x-window-system 14:14:55 alright 14:14:55 thanks 14:14:58 i hate that psudo package 14:15:07 http://sinfest.net/comics/sf20010329.gif 14:15:10 it will give some dependancy errors there too 14:15:26 do this in query so we dont flood #forth with unrelated BS :) 14:15:32 kk 14:17:02 cleverdra: just discovering Sinfest, eh? 14:18:51 Yes. 14:18:54 * cleverdra hearts sinfest. 14:19:14 I've started at the beginning, and am working my way through to the end. 14:20:05 I've followed it daily for about a year now. 14:30:21 --- quit: clog (^C) 14:30:21 --- log: stopped forth/01.07.02 14:31:24 --- log: started forth/01.07.02 14:31:24 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 14:31:24 --- topic: 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' 14:31:24 --- topic: set by ChanServ on [Sun Jul 01 23:44:52 2001] 14:31:24 --- names: list (clog @notjunkd @cleverdra @I440r @klooie @aaronl @MrReach @Trey @nate37) 14:32:55 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o clog 14:33:12 * aaronl is away: NETHACK!! 14:34:05 I440r: will isforth support multi-threading? 14:34:23 define multi threading 14:34:31 forth threads or linux threads 14:34:51 Multiple threads of execution in a single process. 14:35:02 Like pthreads for C. 14:35:07 now that i dont know 14:35:08 he means multitasking, I440r. Will your Forth have multiple tasks? 14:35:21 i cant see of any realy reason to tie your single process up into a gordian knot like that 14:35:34 but it will definatly support multiple processes :) 14:35:53 Linux gives you that for free. 14:35:59 exactly 14:36:12 there will be a word called clone in isforth that returns twice hehe 14:36:52 Did you mean that as a joke? 14:37:02 no - thats how clone works in linux 14:37:15 you call it and it comes back twice 14:37:16 I440r - it'll return a flag, right? 14:37:21 no 14:37:22 Right, as the sort-of logical equivalent to fork(). 14:37:23 Trey - he's talking about fork 14:37:24 it will return a pid 14:37:30 oh yea fork 14:37:33 i meant fork hehe 14:37:38 I440r - well, but how will you know which fork you are? 14:37:45 i been "not thinking linux" for too lokg heh 14:37:55 because teh fork word will return teh PID 14:37:57 I440r - letsay 0 for the child, and the child's pid for the parent 14:38:01 0 = child yes 14:38:03 Linus calls the "fork()" syscall "clone" 14:38:21 then maybe thats why i was thinking clone 14:38:25 Although it has more flexible semantics than a posix fork(). 14:39:12 brb - i need coffee :) 14:40:19 Well, if you provide for all of Linux's clone semantics, you'll have to deal with multi-threading (aka Forth multi-tasking). 14:42:57 i wont - 14:43:05 the app coder will 14:43:30 the kernel itself wont do any multi tasking or multi threading 14:44:43 Uh, you'll need some kind of support in the kernel for task-specific variables (like BASE). 14:45:11 nope 14:45:17 because of copy on write 14:46:01 But then you won't share any variables read/write. 14:46:39 correct 14:46:52 Will you have IPC or something? 14:46:54 you will ned to do ipc 14:46:59 Ick. 14:47:09 thers nothing i can do about htat 14:47:12 Awfully heavy weight. 14:47:13 IPC is slow, yes. 14:47:18 and what Trey said. 14:47:50 well if there was a way to make each process SHARA all code and variable space i would do it 14:48:43 You want the core code shared between processes, but the application specific stuff you want separated. 14:48:58 You can get this with copy-on-write for the initial code segments. 14:50:03 im not prepared to seperate things out like that 14:50:13 like make base specific to a process etc 14:50:22 thats sphagetti code man - 14:50:40 ill see if i can come up with a nice ipc that isnt srv hehe 14:50:52 so forth processes can cooperate 14:51:13 Hmmm. One (or both) of us "doesn't get it". 14:51:22 but it would be dangerous to have 2 interpreters running at teh same time on teh same dictionary 14:51:24 I don't know which one(s) yet, though. 14:51:43 I440r: you need locking for that. 14:51:49 ill be back in about 2/3 of an hour i gotta go get my kid sis and take her to teh malll grrr 14:51:57 heh 14:52:01 i wanna continue this conversation tho so dont disappear :) 14:52:20 im not wimoping out on a lost arguement cuz nothing has been decided with me one way or teh other heh 14:52:25 I work from home, I almost never disappear :-) 14:52:40 but sweperating shit out that should be shared and what should not would be a nightmare 14:52:45 trey cool 14:52:48 gimme a job :) 14:52:55 brb :) 14:53:05 Yeah Trey, I440r didn't just message me that you'd scared him and that he was about to try to flee the conversation. He's also not running for the border, where he doesn't have an account. 14:53:34 I440r - well, I don't think you'd want the seperating to be done automatically. 14:53:50 You do want it done automatically at the process level. 14:53:53 10 shareds: foo1 foo2 foo3 bar1 bar2 bar3 baz1 baz2 baz3 BASE 14:54:18 we can discuss how that could be implemented when i get back - 14:54:22 where teh fsck are my car keys hehe 14:54:28 In your pocket. 14:54:31 see you, I440r. 14:54:35 iom rtfming teh kernel right now - baught a book on it :) 14:54:43 lame - i know but teh sources are too complex 14:56:35 i440r 15:02:35 --- quit: notjunkd (tear..) 15:04:06 --- join: rob_ert (robost86@h3n1fls33o898.telia.com) joined #forth 15:18:21 --- join: notjunkd (junk@p52-max2.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 15:21:48 anyone in here use debian 15:22:09 Nop, I don't 15:22:51 why do you ask, NJ? 15:22:57 --- mode: cleverdra set mode: +oo notjunkd rob_ert 15:23:20 i can't get onto the net 15:23:21 heh 15:23:25 * cleverdra looks for a nerve-soothing game that doesn't involve killing and destruction. 15:23:37 try talking about it on #debian, or on the debian mailing lists. 15:24:18 k 15:24:25 I've got sokoban, which is playable in gforth, and which is much better now that I'm hacking it again. hm. Variety. 15:24:33 sokoban 15:24:36 wicked 15:24:42 anyway, I'm looking. 15:25:23 not - yeah, my sokoban is cool =) I still need to fix its help up and add some commands for jumping between levels and set it up so that jumping between levels doesn't invalidate your stats. 15:26:03 Do you know how much a z80 CPU costs nowadays? 15:26:29 I've already cleaned it up quite a bit. I also have two levels, a "YOU WON!" level and a "YOU LOST" level =) They look the same, and they have a small corroridor at the end of which is an 'X', the only clean way out of the game. When you hit 'Q', you change to level 87 (or something) and can step out. /so/ cool. 15:26:52 rob - probably less than $100, given that TIs come with them, but then that may be from mass consumption. 15:27:56 Hmm... yes. I wonder how hard it is to build your own system 15:28:04 cheap RS232 15:28:11 LED or something 15:28:19 COnnect an old keyboard 15:28:27 rob - well, you can buy F21 and some other parts and have a neat-o Forthputer. 15:28:39 F21 ? 15:28:42 what's that? 15:29:10 rob - www.ultratechnology.com 15:29:20 ok 15:30:35 I wonder how cheap you can make a compter with slow CPU, keyboard, small screen (LED), and serial port 15:31:21 rob - don't bother with the "slow" part. www.ultratechnology.com 15:31:51 I wonder how cheap you can make a compter with CPU, keyboard, small screen (LED), and serial port 15:31:54 =) 15:31:57 what do you think? 15:33:47 I'd say, maybe the range of $50 15:34:21 hmm. that would be nice 15:34:24 hmmmmmmmm.... asteroids in Forth? It's been done, but I don't want to do it in X. How about ASCII asteroids? 15:34:30 a little computer playing around in 15:34:42 ascii asteroids? 15:34:46 hehe 15:34:50 s/little // =) F21 is, like, kick-ass. 15:35:08 where on that site can I find F21? 15:35:45 I forget where. Check 'products'. I think it's changed since last I saw the F21 sales. Before you could buy assembled computers, and cheaper variations. 15:36:10 ASCII asteroids actually wouldn't be too bad. I'll thing about it. 15:37:31 * cleverdra supposes that he could do programmed I/O in Enth. 15:37:43 Enth = ? 15:38:28 pringle.sphosting.com 15:38:35 It's a native system. 15:38:37 YES! Haha! 15:38:43 http://perlblaster.sourceforge.net/ 15:38:48 This I could do in Forth. 15:40:05 Is there any small forth for PC (real mode, just using hardware and BIOS) 15:40:51 Enth is a small Forth for PC (not real mode, not using BIOS much at all) 15:41:24 not real mode? 15:41:37 you know any real mode? 15:42:47 Sorry, have to go now... See you! 15:43:20 Bye 15:43:22 --- quit: rob_ert () 15:43:32 * aaronl is away: walking 16:01:59 back 16:01:59 now 16:02:04 where were we:) 16:02:34 nope 16:02:36 your helping me 16:03:11 no im not - ur fixed :P 16:03:16 and i dont known ur default g2 16:03:24 weather ur isp uses pap chap or chat etc 16:03:41 brb i never did get that coffee - getting it now 16:06:41 trey u there ? 16:06:47 about that job :) hehe 16:11:20 --- join: cleverser (jfondren@1Cust186.tnt4.florence.sc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 16:11:53 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o cleverser 16:11:56 --- quit: cleverdra (Killed (NickServ (This nick is reserved by another user))) 16:12:38 --- nick: cleverser -> cleverdra 16:16:05 --- quit: cleverdra (Leaving) 16:18:29 --- join: notjunkd_ (junk@p97-max1.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 16:18:46 i440r 16:18:48 dcc chat me 16:18:50 i'll paste 16:19:03 --- part: I440r left #forth 16:20:19 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.51) joined #forth 16:20:57 --- part: edrx left #forth 16:24:51 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 16:24:51 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o I440r 16:24:53 argh 16:33:07 --- quit: notjunkd_ ([x]chat) 16:33:53 --- join: notjunkd_ (junk@p97-max1.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 16:34:45 --- quit: notjunkd_ ([x]chat) 16:35:37 --- join: Shain (steve@c1644115-a.ptlum1.sfba.home.com) joined #forth 16:38:32 --- part: Shain left #forth 16:40:36 hi 16:41:01 hi 16:41:13 shain was aaronl ? 16:41:31 what? 16:41:40 shain entered 16:41:44 and as i said hi he left 16:41:49 so i messaged him but he was gone :P 16:48:13 im gona go play a game but ill keep checking in here - im getting interested in forth again :P 16:52:58 --- quit: notjunkd (bbl) 17:06:06 --- join: s[e]th (seth.holth@APastourelles-101-1-4-60.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 17:06:11 hiho 17:07:26 hi 17:07:30 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o s[e]th 17:09:51 bbl :) 17:14:35 --- quit: s[e]th () 17:14:43 --- join: notjunkd (junk@p40-max1.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 17:14:58 I440r 17:15:22 18% overall 17:23:45 --- part: notjunkd left #forth 17:49:22 --- join: notjunkd (junk@p74-max1.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 17:49:25 I440r 17:51:40 yea 17:52:12 what 17:58:50 --- join: notjunk (bewm@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 17:59:09 --- quit: notjunk ([BX] Now she knows why her cat stays away from me! DAMNIT!) 18:03:47 --- join: notjunk (bewm@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 18:04:32 --- part: notjunk left #forth 18:04:32 --- join: notjunk (bewm@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 18:08:19 I440r: I'll check in later after I finish watching Austin Powers II. 18:08:42 booga 18:10:23 * notjunk is away: i just am (ar/+lp) 18:10:32 --- quit: notjunk (BitchX: it tastes like poo) 18:13:02 --- join: notjunkd_ (bewm@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 18:13:05 * notjunkd_ is away, stuff (l!on) : os/bx 18:13:15 --- quit: notjunkd_ (changing servers) 18:15:27 ugh hehe 18:15:27 :P 18:15:27 if thats as corny as austin powers 1 looked i cant understand why anyone would watch it :) 18:15:27 austin powers rules 18:15:32 --- quit: I440r (Read error to I440r[purplecoder.com]: Connection reset by peer) 18:16:21 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 18:16:36 fscking eth0 dies on me grrr 18:22:31 --- join: I440r_ (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 18:22:45 wtf? 18:23:20 --- quit: I440r (Read error to I440r[purplecoder.com]: Connection reset by peer) 18:24:44 i440r 18:24:52 70% 18:24:57 39m left 18:32:27 I440r_ yoiu here? 18:32:38 --- mode: MrReach set mode: +oo I440r_ notjunkd 18:33:46 yea 18:33:47 im here 18:33:53 hi 18:33:58 wanna talk threads/processes? 18:34:04 hell yes :) 18:34:17 im asking in #debian how to share memory between processes in forth 18:34:22 without using shm 18:34:32 why would you do that? 18:34:36 they say i need to make sure i have adequate locking hehe 18:34:38 use a pipe 18:34:47 make 40 processes 18:34:56 and each with a pipe to the parent 18:35:00 who has control over the memory 18:35:12 that's the way I'd do it 18:35:18 each process can read or write the buffer but sending a message down teh pipe to the parent ??> 18:35:18 yea 18:35:21 thatl be fast 18:35:31 but that's standard IPC ... not pthreads 18:36:00 i would rather have one block of memory that does not copy on write 18:36:12 ipc will be a bottleneck 18:36:21 pipes=ipc 18:36:25 yes 18:36:29 like i said 18:36:30 one method of IPC 18:36:33 a bottleneck 18:36:49 threads are not seperate processes 18:37:03 im talking about fork/clone 18:37:05 only seperate processes HAVE to use pipes 18:37:26 yes, and I'm talking about the difference between forth and create_thread 18:37:30 OOOPS! 18:37:34 hate that! 18:37:40 yes, and I'm talking about the difference between FORK and create_thread 18:38:00 is there a create_thread syscall ? 18:38:02 both are useful 18:38:14 or would i need to ling lib_bullshit-dev ? 18:38:18 yes, it belongs in the pthread library from MIT 18:38:21 no 18:38:34 lemme check syscalls 18:38:38 syscalls only in kernel remember 18:38:46 :) 18:38:49 if I recall, the thread lib is 100k or so 18:39:33 nope, not part of kernel 18:39:48 you are not going to support any shared libs at all? 18:39:54 then i would need to re-implement what the pthreads library does in the kernel 18:40:08 the kernel will not link to ANY libraries at all - user code will be able to tho 18:40:23 how will it do that? 18:40:50 how does pthreads work 18:40:58 if it can be done in c it can be done in forth easier 18:41:27 no, I meant ... How will an application programmer be able to load a shared library? 18:42:09 with the extentions that i plan for the kernel 18:42:13 not PART thereof 18:42:15 but an extention 18:42:21 ok, as long as it can be done 18:42:38 it has always been planned 18:42:45 the issue with threads is that each thread needs to manage it's own memory 18:42:56 i just dont want forth kernel itself to link to anything - 18:43:04 it will be an OPTION for the user 18:43:08 it is not appropriate for more than one thread to run the intereter 18:43:27 interpreter - prolly not heh 18:43:33 think of threads as "background thingys" 18:43:38 unless they are compiling to seperate dictionaries 18:44:07 but watch out, "background thingies" can gleefully mangle your system variables, like BASE 18:44:38 so each thread accesses it's own variables, and ONLY its own variables 18:44:41 i know 18:44:45 base must copy on write 18:44:52 what?? 18:45:04 if two processes are sharing BASE 18:45:13 then thats fine till one of them tries to write to it 18:45:14 no, a thread is not a process 18:45:18 then it must copy 18:45:38 the behavior you're describing is what happens during a fork 18:45:43 yea 18:45:45 i know 18:45:50 i need PARTS to copy on write 18:45:53 other parts to NOT 18:46:32 heh 18:46:40 ok, you have to make a chice ... 18:46:43 choice ... 18:46:54 either the memory is shared or it isn't 18:47:06 part if it has to be 18:47:09 other parts cant be 18:47:10 if it's NOT shared, then you're using fork 18:47:25 if it's shared, then you're talking about create_thread 18:47:37 there's no middle ground. 18:47:58 that is why threads are considered so damned dangerous 18:48:00 hrm there has to be heh 18:49:11 not neccessarily ... dont' forget that the concept of threads is so that unrelated parts of a program can run independantly 18:49:28 for example ... 18:49:43 an XWindow spreadsheet ... 18:49:59 one thread might do nothing except constantly recalculate 18:50:13 k 18:50:20 another thread might handle user input ... and can force the calc thread to restart 18:51:05 another thread might handle the output window, and only runs when something changes and calc has finished a complete cycle 18:51:30 but they both need access to the SAME data 18:51:36 in all these cases, each thread can manage it's own memory 18:52:11 ok, true 18:52:30 there is often a master thread that manages the others 18:53:02 another good example is a serial port driver 18:53:37 there is a thread the gets woken up when a character arrives ... it simply reads the char and appends it to a queu 18:53:55 i would call that an isr 18:54:00 the main thread (the interpreter in forth) uses these characters at its leaisure 18:54:03 and that stores the character in an input buffer 18:54:05 for anyone to read 18:54:12 yes, it is a specific type of thread 18:54:50 now change the serial port to an internet socket, and it's not an isr anymore 18:54:57 no 18:54:58 its a pipe 18:55:00 or a file 18:55:05 or to the listening end of a pipe 18:55:37 but would you like to cmpile the sources you have on your box on the compile i have on my box down a pipe - for executoin on YOUR box ? 18:55:39 in any case, the thread is expected to run in the background, never using the interpreter's variables 18:55:43 it would be a real bottleneck hehe 18:56:09 not as much as you might think 18:56:40 are pipes like files - can i pass arbitary strings down them 18:56:40 ? 18:57:28 can 2 processes send strings down 2 different pipes to a third process on an smp ???? 18:57:56 i dont want to have to do file locking etc 18:58:01 lock this resource 18:58:02 use it 18:58:04 clear lock 18:58:26 that is un forth like to impose rules and regulations in that manner imho 18:58:44 yes 18:58:58 most pipes have exactly one lisener and many writers 18:59:41