00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.06.24
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02:05:09 <robert_sleeping> Hi MrReach
02:05:17 * robert_sleeping robert
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08:50:43 <I440r> hi rob ert
08:53:00 <rob_ert> Hi
08:53:05 <rob_ert> =)
08:53:21 <rob_ert> I'll have a look at those sites you recommended
08:53:29 <rob_ert> and try making a forth compiler
08:55:06 <I440r> well making a forth compiler is a ways down the road yet :)
08:55:12 <I440r> even for me it seems :P
08:55:13 <I440r> brb
08:55:16 <rob_ert> ok
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12:36:47 <futhin> hola
12:37:01 <futhin> can somebody tell me if forth can be compiled?  as in "no interpreter packaged with bytecodes" ?
12:37:15 <futhin> is forth a compiled language or an interpreted language?
12:37:49 <rob_ert_aw_ay> Hehe
12:37:55 <rob_ert_aw_ay> I've asked that a couple of times
12:38:07 <rob_ert_aw_ay> I don'y understand the answer
12:38:11 <rob_ert_aw_ay> don't
12:38:21 <futhin> what's the answer? do you remember?
12:38:40 <rob_ert_aw_ay> No, but I think I have a log saved of it
12:39:55 <futhin> can you send me the part concerning it? :)
12:40:18 <futhin> maybe i'll be able to interpret it for you :)
12:40:30 <rob_ert_aw_ay> hmm
12:40:34 <rob_ert_aw_ay> ask I440r
12:40:39 <rob_ert_aw_ay> can't find it =(
12:40:48 <rob_ert_aw_ay> he knows a lot about forth
12:41:13 <futhin> yeah
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14:19:57 <I440r> wow chanserv actually bothered to set the topic!!!
14:19:57 <I440r> shock horror!
14:19:57 <I440r> heh
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14:31:04 <I440r> hi
14:31:08 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o aaronl_
14:31:14 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Ales
14:31:17 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o dired
14:31:20 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o rob_ert
14:31:21 <rob_ert> =)
14:31:23 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o s[e]th
14:31:50 <Ales> are you so sure that's a good idea... 
14:31:58 <Ales> I could be evil. :-)
14:32:30 <I440r> so could i :)
14:32:46 * rob_ert could be... In theory
14:32:56 <Ales> evil forth people
14:33:04 <Ales> go forth and be evil.. 
14:33:05 <Ales> oh wait
14:33:08 <rob_ert> Hehe
14:34:12 <s[e]th> have you see FARE ?
14:34:31 <I440r> not today
14:34:40 <I440r> oh... ur ftrom #tunes ???
14:34:43 <I440r> you ARE evil :)
14:34:44 <I440r> heheh
14:34:48 <rob_ert> How many under 35 in this #forth forum?
14:34:53 <s[e]th> when for the last time ?
14:34:55 <Ales> me!
14:35:00 <I440r> hrm
14:35:02 <s[e]th> me!
14:35:04 <I440r> yesterday
14:35:05 <s[e]th> ^^
14:35:15 <s[e]th> I440r: thank ^^
14:35:32 <I440r> np :)
14:37:16 <Ales> me!
14:37:18 <Ales> aggg
14:37:22 <Ales> damn history
14:38:24 <s[e]th> perhaps it's not a forth's subject but who know about curl ?
14:38:51 <I440r> this is a forth channel where you can talk about anything you want :P
14:39:09 <I440r> this isnt #tunes where they get anally retentive if you just MENTION something non tunes related :P
14:39:44 <I440r> but ive never heared of curl
14:39:48 <I440r> i dont think
14:39:54 <I440r> maybe someone mentioned it in here b4
14:39:57 <I440r> i ferget
14:40:03 <s[e]th> ok ;p
14:40:03 <I440r> its old age u know :)
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14:40:21 <s[e]th> i'm gonna ask to fare (in tunes' channel)
14:40:23 <s[e]th> ^^
14:40:23 * rob_ert_aw_ay doesn't know fortran very well
14:40:58 <s[e]th> and one "upseting" question :
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14:44:49 <Ales> so anybody doing any app development in forth here?
14:49:47 <I440r> not yet
14:49:51 <I440r> need a real forth first
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16:40:27 <rob_ert> Hi adu =)
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17:54:23 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard
17:54:28 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
17:54:34 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o adu
18:19:30 * Trey is idle: BRB
18:19:35 <Trey> Hmmm.
18:19:53 * Trey has returned
18:20:01 * Trey has returned
18:20:09 <Trey> Hmmm.
18:20:57 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Trey 
18:35:14 <Trey> Howdy TheBlueWizard.
18:35:23 * Trey reads c.l.f
18:36:53 <TheBlueWizard> find anything interesting in c.l.f.?
18:39:38 <Trey> The tail end of a meltdown between Jeff Fox and "everyone else" over wether or not you can have an ANS Forth with a 16bit data stack and a 21 bit return stack.
18:42:58 * Trey is idle: back later.
18:43:25 <TheBlueWizard> that's a rather weird architecture to use....it's usually expected to have both data stack and return stack to have same cell size so that >R  R>  whatever works properly
19:08:04 * Trey has returned
19:08:24 <Trey> Not really so strange.
19:08:51 <Trey> >R and R> must move CELL-sized elements between the stacks.
19:09:54 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...but the bit size...16....21....I take it you have to use the bigger one, eh?
19:10:41 <Trey> If you have a 16bit data stack (CELL == 16 bits), you get 5 bits of don't care/don't know when the item moves to the return stack.
19:11:38 <Trey> When that item comes off the return stack, it gets clipped to 16 bits and you never knew or cared it happened.
19:13:01 <TheBlueWizard> sounds dangerous to me....then again...<shrug>
19:13:15 <Trey> Not at all.
19:13:28 <Trey> You may only remove things from the return stack that you put there.
19:58:52 <TheBlueWizard> got to go....bye all
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20:42:19 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o cleverdra
20:42:24 --- mode: cleverdra set mode: +o rob_ert_sleep_ing
20:42:29 <cleverdra> 'Yo =)
20:44:50 <cleverdra> dired, karma forth
20:44:50 <dired> forth has neutral karma
20:44:53 <cleverdra> forth++
20:44:54 <cleverdra> dired, karma forth
20:44:55 <dired> forth has karma of 1
20:45:12 <cleverdra> 1 forth +! =)
20:46:21 <cleverdra> o/~ way back in the year one / when you belonged to no one / you didn't stand a chance, son / all your plans were un-done o/~
20:46:25 <cleverdra> (Jethro Tull)++
20:47:35 <cleverdra> I'm going to teach Enth to speak to my speaker, and write a lyric-player in Color Forth.
20:48:19 <cleverdra> I guess the speaker will beep rythmically or something.
20:57:47 <I440r> 1 forth +! hehehe
20:57:53 <I440r> 1 
20:57:58 <I440r> 1 +!> forth
20:58:01 <I440r> incr> forth
20:58:02 <I440r> heh
20:59:24 <cleverdra> : ++ dup @ 1+ swap ! ;
20:59:52 <cleverdra> I actually had the wrong patch for nasm, i440r.  Do you know where the 98e thing is?
21:00:09 <I440r> ftp://ftp.purplecoder.com/pub :)
21:00:14 <I440r> its a debian package tho
21:00:22 <I440r> if u want ill extract it and tgz it
21:00:25 <I440r> its the linux binaries
21:04:18 <cleverdra> the .zip is a deb?
21:04:29 <cleverdra> That's the only 98e thing I see.
21:11:52 <cleverdra> http://eurosport.ifrance.com/joss/nasm098e.zip
21:12:00 <I440r> its a debian package
21:12:03 <I440r> oh
21:12:06 <I440r> its a zip ?
21:12:15 <I440r> hehe it was a .deb, maybe iu put the zip in there
21:12:18 <I440r> hehe
21:12:19 <I440r> duh
21:12:33 <cleverdra> well, that's cool.  Above link from somewhere else.
21:14:12 <I440r> ?
21:17:27 <cleverdra> http://eurosport.ifrance.com/joss/nasm098e.zip
21:17:35 <cleverdra> Above link from somewhere else.
21:21:21 <cleverdra> http://www.linuxassembly.org/asmutils.html -- hee.  GNU utils written in assembly!
21:22:52 <cleverdra> http://nasm.2y.net/
21:22:56 <cleverdra> dired, nasm is also http://nasm.2y.net/
21:22:57 <dired> OK, cleverdra.
21:23:37 <I440r> nasm.2y.net is the official nasm i believe but i dont know if its still being developed
21:24:14 <cleverdra> What do you mean?  nasm isn't being developed anymore?
21:24:27 <cleverdra> latest version there:  0.98.08
21:24:28 <I440r> i think the developers are on permanant holiday hehe
21:24:45 <I440r> the original author dropped it
21:24:53 <cleverdra> oh, hm.
21:25:00 <I440r> it was taken up by his #2 developer i think....
21:25:30 <cleverdra> Well, nasm should last isforth until it has its own assembler and can metacompile itself :-/
21:25:38 <I440r> yes
21:25:50 <I440r> nasm is just a bootstrap stage thing hehe
21:26:23 <cleverdra> You said you don't like postfix assemblers.  What about a prefix/postfix assembler?  Enth's SASM has a switch that'll change it from postfix to prefix.
21:27:23 <I440r> that would be good
21:27:24 <cleverdra> change it between postfix and prefix
21:27:28 <I440r> so did pasm
21:27:31 <I440r> from fpc
21:27:39 <I440r> but pasm was always 16 bit
21:27:39 <cleverdra> Oh, I'm starting you agree with you about the subroutine-threaded Forth thing.
21:27:46 <I440r> :)
21:27:49 <I440r> it isnt forth
21:27:58 <I440r> ret != next
21:28:52 <I440r> call != nest :P
21:29:02 <cleverdra> Today, I was reading documentation on FOSM, which is a vastly cool pattern matcher (o/~ and more! o/~) in Forth... that won't and can't work on a system whose return stack doesn't hold return addresses and such.
21:29:14 <I440r> and its less efficient space wise
21:29:17 <cleverdra> subroutine threaded systems don't use the return stack for that, right?
21:29:51 <I440r> well i dont know - they might
21:29:59 <I440r> the processor stack might be the return stack
21:30:05 <I440r> and a software stack used for parameters
21:30:44 <cleverdra> Yeah, the processor stack is apparently better as data stack for direct/indirect, and as return stack for subroutine -- or it's the other way around.
21:31:24 <cleverdra> Please elaborate on why you don't think Forth can be subroutine threaded.
21:31:34 <cleverdra> ret != next, call != nest?
21:32:02 <I440r> call is not a nest
21:32:05 <I440r> ret is not a next
21:32:10 <I440r> its just not forth
21:32:13 <I440r> its unthreaded
21:32:46 <cleverdra> well, no, it's not threaded.
21:34:13 <I440r> i dont realy like indirect threading either --
21:34:23 <I440r> but i still consider it to be a valid forht model
21:37:08 <cleverdra> Why don't you like indirect threading?  gforth uses indirect threaded on the Pentium, because it is supposedly faster on that architecture.
21:37:51 <I440r> i cant see how
21:38:08 <I440r> how can a pointer to a pointer to a function be faster than a pointer to a function
21:40:33 <cleverdra> I dunno.  Maybe pentium has an op for it.
21:40:38 <cleverdra> Ask the gforth people?
21:40:45 <I440r> :)
21:40:59 <I440r> isnt gforth written in c ?
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21:43:21 <cleverdra> A very tiny bit of it is, apparently.  The C that I've seen is mostly in prim, embedded in Forth.  It's... wierd.  I actually can't use gforth right now, because I lack a certain header that *** two words *** need.  I can remove those two words from prim and from engine/prim.i (normally the later is generate by gforth, but I don't have gforth, see?), but it still wants them (it shouldn't!  they are extraneous!  unused elsewhere!) and 
21:43:23 <cleverdra> so... no gforth.
21:43:34 <cleverdra> I was only thinking of using gforth to metacompile my own system, anyway.
21:44:23 <I440r> :)
21:44:44 <I440r> well if it has a single " <-- iddy biddy piece of c in it i want no part of it
21:44:46 <I440r> :)
21:47:03 <I440r> http://www.openhere.com/tech1/programming/languages/forth/implementations/
21:47:11 <I440r> isforth gets a mention there hehe he has a link to it :)
21:47:13 <I440r> wow!!!
21:47:16 <I440r> im phamus :P
21:47:22 <I440r> dang better get werkin on it :)
21:48:56 <I440r> actually, i am working on it indirectly - im reading up on the linux kernel
21:49:09 <I440r> neway its time for me to go zzz :)
21:49:10 <cleverdra> as soon as I can get the bloody thing compiled, I'll help =)
21:49:12 <I440r> nite dood
21:49:16 <I440r> yes!!!
21:49:19 <I440r> that would be cool :)
21:49:20 <cleverdra> g'night, i440r
21:49:36 <I440r> nite :)
21:49:56 <I440r> tcn has it compiling already - i need his latest sources but he has no internet rite now :(
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22:00:24 --- mode: cleverdra set mode: +o aaronl
22:00:28 <cleverdra> welcome back, aaron
22:00:37 <aaronl> GARGARGAR
22:00:46 <aaronl> my mainboard SUCKS
22:01:15 <aaronl> it detects 512mb as 256mb
22:01:31 <aaronl> cleverdra: Rick Honessee (sp?) made a fool out of himself on LKML
22:01:36 <cleverdra> mainboard?
22:01:39 <cleverdra> LKML?
22:01:42 <cleverdra> How so?
22:01:44 <cleverdra> Hohensee.
22:02:20 <aaronl> ah
22:02:45 <aaronl> he suggested forking the kerenl, droping support for SMP and non-i386 archs, ignoring posix, and using CR+LF
22:03:07 <cleverdra> that's interesting.
22:03:19 <cleverdra> He's doing this forking himself?
22:03:47 <aaronl> no
22:03:51 <aaronl> he just said it should be done
22:04:03 * cleverdra shrugs.
22:04:25 <cleverdra> Wierd.  I wonder what his reasons were for CR+LF.
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