00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.06.13
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08:24:51 <Trey> Still no word from Sean :-(
08:32:46 <cleverdra> probably on vacation, then
08:52:37 <Trey> Those Darn Aussies (tm).
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09:33:39 <cleverdra> hello again grurp
09:49:55 <I440r> hi ppl
09:50:10 <cleverdra> hello i44or
09:50:27 <I440r> :)
10:14:58 <grurp> hello cleverdra
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13:48:45 <aaronl_> I440r: you up already? :)
13:48:52 <I440r> no :P
13:49:10 <I440r> ZzzzzzZZzz (snort)
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14:40:59 * aaronl is away: tennis
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16:49:45 <futhin> hey MrReach, long time no see :)
16:50:02 <MrReach> howdy howdy!
16:50:06 <MrReach> how goes for you?
16:51:35 <futhin> pretty good, today was a productive day.  i read 3 books ;)
16:53:55 <futhin> well actually, i skimmed the first book, finished the second book from halfway, and i'm 65% into the 3rd book
16:54:15 <futhin> but still a pretty productive day :)
16:54:16 <MrReach> all Forth books?
16:54:48 <futhin> nope.. just random library books that have been sitting around for a month and i really should read them so that i can return them
16:55:02 <MrReach> hahaha!
16:55:11 <MrReach> heh, "random"
16:56:07 <futhin> heh, not really random.  a few entrepreneur/business books, a few arguing/logic books, and a few web design books
16:57:08 <MrReach> "misc" might be a better word, then
16:57:21 <MrReach> sounds like my reading list, actually
16:57:27 <futhin> hm, cool :)
16:57:41 <futhin> you into biz too?
16:57:48 <MrReach> the ent/bus to help plan out the future
16:58:08 <MrReach> the logic/argument for ammunition during druken discussions around the campfire
16:58:12 <futhin> heh
16:58:16 <MrReach> and the web books for the hobby
16:58:50 <futhin> i've got the logic/argument books for helping me be more rational and arguing more effectively, and it'll probably help me be a better writer too.. 
16:59:15 <MrReach> heh, I have a natural talent for communication
16:59:35 <futhin> the one argument book i've read so far was pretty cool, talked about fallacies and all that.
16:59:36 <MrReach> but it's hard for me to find someone who really puts up much of a fight
17:00:07 <MrReach> usually because they pick topics they haven't really thought much about
17:00:43 <MrReach> futhin: do you mean about working within the language and context of the person you're talking to?
17:01:16 <futhin> eh?
17:02:08 <MrReach> if you try to prove a point or illustrate with a situation ...
17:02:16 <futhin> i'm pretty good at communication too, i'm naturally extrovert and all that.  i'm usually good in arguments, but some of my friends are quite stubborn so i want to be better.  plus everybody tends to make fallacies :)
17:02:46 <MrReach> you have to do it within the context that the other person can understand ... within their "paradigm"
17:03:32 <futhin> no, that's not what the argument book talked about..  sounds like a different subject like "simplifying explainations" or something.
17:03:44 <MrReach> the arguments I value most are the ones I lose ... because I was obviously missing something
17:03:55 <futhin> the argument book just talked about how to recognize fallacies, talked about the fallacies, etc.  it was really cool
17:04:07 <MrReach> got an example?
17:04:10 <futhin> sure
17:04:56 <MrReach> never thought I might find a good philosopher in a hacker channel
17:05:24 <futhin> heh, i've hung out on #philosophy on dalnet/efnet before :)
17:05:53 <MrReach> what city/state you in, futhin?
17:06:27 <futhin> calgary,alberta,canada :)
17:06:35 <futhin> you?
17:06:44 <MrReach> oh, a days drive from here in Spokane
17:07:49 <futhin> one of the fallacies/maneuvers that is common in arguments is change of subject.    so basically, people will try to get onto a different tack in the argument so that you are no longer arguing for the same position as you were..
17:08:06 <futhin> i could type out the dialogue examples but that's a bit of a pain :)_
17:08:13 <MrReach> that is correct
17:08:46 <MrReach> I often change to a slightly different, but closely related, topic when I find myself on unfamiliar ground.
17:09:38 <futhin> so it gives the advice that if you suddenly no longer know what you are arguing about, check to see if the subject was changed.   if confused, find out what the heck is going on, ask what the topic is, etc.
17:10:29 <MrReach> ;yes, I've done that, it prevent misunderstandings.
17:10:41 <MrReach> one of the funniest things that I've seen happen ...
17:10:45 <futhin> read the book "how to win an argument" by michael a. gilbert  it's pretty well written and easy to read
17:11:08 <MrReach> is someone drifts off into a meditative state ... and out pops a sentence from their thought stream
17:11:43 <MrReach> a single sentence, with no context, about a totally different topic
17:12:05 <MrReach> and I invariably end up asking, "What the HELL are you talking about?"
17:12:18 <futhin> heh
17:13:01 <futhin> was the person drinking?
17:13:21 <futhin> it's a lot of fun getting drunk with some other friend and then arguing about something, like philosophy or computers :)
17:14:13 <MrReach> I've seen that happen both druken and sober
17:14:41 <MrReach> yes, it is, although the next morning I often wonder how we both allowed ourselves to devolve so much.
17:16:04 <MrReach> stuff like "Who cares if S. African ants were _taught_ how to build self-cooling tower nests?"
17:16:07 <futhin> eh?  with my friend while we both are drunk we try to argue rationally, which is a lot of fun because it's so hard to think straight.   but on the whole we manage to suceed although there are usually some quirky statements
17:16:26 <futhin> lots of merriment :)
17:16:35 * MrReach laughs, "Yep!"
17:17:19 <MrReach> who was it ...
17:18:23 <MrReach> we drank once with this person who just started mumbling and gesturing, it was funnier than you can imagine, "What? What!? NO I'm not making fun of you ... you're mumbling! Now what were you trying to say?"
17:19:13 <futhin> once, i was talking about something about computers, when my friend bursts in with "let's fight 'em, eh, comrade!" which was TOTALLY unexpected. i laughed for quite a bit :)
17:19:42 <futhin> communism is a joke to us
17:20:02 <MrReach> ok
17:20:22 <futhin> nobody else finds it funny, although i can't even remember what i was talking about
17:20:29 <futhin> at that time
17:21:05 <MrReach> well, I can find communism funny, but there's probably a couple hours of discussion I would need in order to catch  up
17:21:28 <futhin> heh
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17:21:55 <MrReach> wifey will be home any minute ... so will be leaving suddenly
17:22:12 <MrReach> watching "Pay It Forward" tonight
17:26:33 <MrReach> greets, edrx
17:26:59 <edrx> hi MrReach
17:26:59 <futhin> gonna go
17:27:01 <futhin> later
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17:27:07 <MrReach> ok, fare well
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17:38:14 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o I440r
17:38:23 --- mode: I440r set mode: +ooo aaronl clog dired
17:38:32 --- mode: I440r set mode: +ooo edrx lar1 MrReach
17:38:36 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Trey
17:39:13 <MrReach> greetings!
17:39:16 <I440r> invited bongo too :)
17:39:18 <I440r> hi dood
17:39:26 <aaronl> heh
17:39:36 <I440r> i just finished my contract in pa, gotta find a new job soon
17:39:36 <edrx> hi people
17:39:41 <MrReach> I'm not sure about the benefits of forth in loadable module ...
17:39:41 <I440r> im buying a 200k house :P
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17:39:46 <I440r> edrx :)
17:39:53 <MrReach> greets, Speuler
17:39:53 <Speuler> g'day
17:39:54 <I440r> it was just an idea
17:39:56 <MrReach> I'm not sure about the benefits of forth in loadable module ...
17:39:59 <I440r> but i think its a dangerous one...
17:40:03 <I440r> hi bongo :)
17:40:13 <edrx> a kernel module?
17:40:20 <MrReach> but I can't emphasise enough the benefits of making the kernel a shared library
17:40:27 <I440r> it would give you the ability to extend teh kernel at any time
17:40:46 <MrReach> edrx: yes, that is what I440r was tinkering with me on ICQ about
17:40:56 <I440r> and any sources you feed the kernel mopdule would run with kernel permissions
17:41:01 <edrx> and to hack it, i.e., to inspect it in many ways -- it's gonna crash from time to time, but that's not so bad...
17:41:07 <I440r> but thats a realy big security issue
17:41:12 <MrReach> yep
17:41:21 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Speuler
17:41:27 <Speuler> tnx
17:41:33 <I440r> so bongo u gona gimme a job then ??? :)
17:41:43 <I440r> im buying a 200k house ya know :)
17:41:47 <I440r> actually about 190k
17:41:49 <MrReach> I would, generally, vote "no" to having a forth kernel-level module ... "Keep the Unix kernel sacred"
17:41:52 <aaronl> fuck
17:41:52 <I440r> but cluse ennuf:L)
17:41:55 <aaronl> stuff is cheap out east
17:41:58 <I440r> me too
17:42:06 <aaronl> a simple house in my town costs $1.5M
17:42:09 <MrReach> I just finished buying this one
17:42:17 <I440r> cool :)
17:42:32 <I440r> mine will have hills on either side of it and a 60 acre forrest behind it
17:42:41 <Speuler> I440r: sorry my puny operation is just self-sufficient :)
17:42:43 <I440r> ill have a 150 yard rifle range in my back yard :))))))))))))
17:42:50 <I440r> speuler :)
17:42:59 <aaronl> heh
17:43:02 <I440r> well keep me in mind i will travel anywher for a forth job :)
17:43:09 <aaronl> how good are you at shooting?
17:43:15 <I440r> for teh rite prive :)
17:43:25 <I440r> when im in practice not so bad with my 45
17:43:44 <I440r> i shot the 10 out of teh center of a target at 30 yards freehand with my 1911
17:43:46 <I440r> thats one handed
17:44:10 <aaronl> cool
17:44:14 <aaronl> i just shot at cans once :)
17:44:15 <Speuler> I440r: how often did you try ?
17:44:18 <I440r> but im outa pratice
17:44:21 <I440r> that was my first shot
17:44:29 <I440r> all the others were in either the 9 or 10 circle
17:44:46 <I440r> i was shooting against my dad..
17:44:51 <I440r> i beat him by 1 point :)
17:44:54 <I440r> he baught dinner heheh
17:45:02 <I440r> i still have the target as a souvineer :)
17:45:11 <I440r> we have close to 40 handguns here
17:45:20 <I440r> plus about 9 or 10 rifles
17:45:25 <I440r> including 2 ak4y7's
17:45:28 <I440r> 3 sks's
17:45:31 <aaronl> here == where?
17:45:32 <I440r> 3 ar-15's
17:45:44 <I440r> in teh safe in this house
17:45:53 <aaronl> amazing
17:46:06 <aaronl> are the machine guns fun?
17:46:10 <I440r> plus a couple of 30-06's
17:46:20 <I440r> none of these is fully auto...
17:46:31 <I440r> you have to pay an 800 dollar tax to get those
17:46:34 <aaronl> heh
17:46:36 <I440r> PEER weapon
17:46:38 <aaronl> semiauto?
17:47:03 <aaronl> you should join Geeks With Guns
17:47:05 <I440r> semi
17:47:11 <I440r> geeks with guns ????/
17:47:16 <I440r> sounds interesting :)
17:47:23 <I440r> i have 3 handuns
17:47:24 <I440r> erm no
17:47:25 <I440r> 4
17:47:28 <I440r> i just baught another :)
17:47:30 <aaronl> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/guns/
17:47:39 <I440r> i baught a 22 calibur luger
17:48:07 <aaronl> erm
17:48:22 <aaronl> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/geeks-with-guns/
17:49:02 <I440r> cool site :)
17:49:07 <I440r> are u a geelk with a gun ??? :)
17:49:33 <aaronl> HAHAH
17:49:33 <aaronl> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/geeks-with-guns/rms-eat-lead-software-hoarders.jpeg
17:49:36 <aaronl> hehe
17:49:37 <aaronl> no
17:49:41 <aaronl> i'm a minor
17:49:52 <aaronl> and i'm not a gun nut. in fact, i've only been to a range once.
17:50:23 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-205-181.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth
17:50:23 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard
17:50:28 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
17:50:35 <aaronl> hi tbw!
17:51:19 <I440r> tbw!!!!
17:51:24 <I440r> btw... its TBW!!!!
17:51:29 <TheBlueWizard> hiya aaronl anf I440r!!!!
17:51:36 * TheBlueWizard laughs
17:51:48 <TheBlueWizard> s/anf/and/
17:52:15 <TheBlueWizard> so what's new?
17:52:18 <I440r> nuttin
17:52:29 <I440r> exceot im lookin for a job :P
17:52:30 <TheBlueWizard> k
17:52:33 <I440r> and buying a house...
17:52:36 <I440r> in that order hehehe
17:53:26 <TheBlueWizard> hehe...of course...looking for jobs sux big time...I'm still in my same old job...and never heard a peep from the guy you referred me to....
17:53:41 <I440r> doh
17:53:50 <I440r> ive not contacted him in ages either
17:54:25 <TheBlueWizard> ha ha ha...oh well...at least we're hoping... :)
17:54:30 <I440r> :)
17:54:48 --- topic: set to 'do drop >in' by I440r
17:55:00 <I440r> how come channel serv remembers to set the modes but not the topic ?
17:55:18 <I440r> stoopid bot :P
17:55:22 <TheBlueWizard> who is the channel owner?
17:55:29 <I440r> me
17:55:34 <I440r> <--- him
17:55:36 <I440r> heheh
17:56:35 <TheBlueWizard> try topic unlock then topic unlock...or maybe other command....I think only chan owner can permanently set the topic
17:56:39 <MrReach> was was distracted with a convo w/ wifey
17:57:03 <TheBlueWizard> dump yer wifey (just kidding)
17:57:29 <I440r> HEHE
17:57:38 <I440r> did you show her that url ??? L(
17:57:45 <I440r> im going to show my kid sister now :)\
17:58:11 <I440r> www.tuxje.nl/GirlsEvil.jpg hehe
18:00:25 <MrReach> TheBlueWizard: actually, we were discussing a similar possibility ... I'm at a crossroads.
18:00:34 * MrReach laughs.
18:00:38 --- part: MrReach left #forth
18:00:43 <I440r> ?
18:00:50 <TheBlueWizard> Oooh what a stunning revelation!  Glad I have a wankie attached :)
18:01:18 <I440r> how come mrreach left ???
18:04:14 <I440r> brb phude
18:04:29 <TheBlueWizard> phude?
18:05:15 <I440r> phood
18:05:15 <I440r> food
18:05:26 <I440r> actually ive gota take my sis to teh mall now
18:05:27 <I440r> grrr
18:05:38 <TheBlueWizard> ah re: phude = food....
18:05:47 <I440r> wast of good irc time :P
18:06:20 <I440r> ill bbl tho
18:06:36 <TheBlueWizard> lol
18:30:24 <Speuler> I440r: 3 Month Contract in Ottawa, Canada
18:30:49 <Speuler> I440r: on c.l.f
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19:06:14 --- join: MrReach (mrreach@209.181.43.184) joined #forth
19:06:26 <MrReach> sorry about having to bail so suddenly.
19:06:52 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o MrReach
19:06:54 <TheBlueWizard> np
19:06:57 <MrReach> danke
19:08:25 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.94) joined #forth
19:08:41 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o edrx
19:08:42 <MrReach> wb, edrx
19:09:02 <edrx> hi again
19:14:10 <TheBlueWizard> got to go....bye all
19:14:13 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth
19:14:16 <MrReach> bye
19:23:57 <edrx> bye
20:18:30 --- join: cleverdra (jfondren@1Cust10.tnt3.florence.sc.da.uu.net) joined #forth
20:19:06 <cleverdra> hello #forth
20:19:12 <cleverdra> seen futhin
20:19:18 <cleverdra> dired, seen futhin?
20:19:18 <dired> futhin was last seen on #forth 2 hours, 52 minutes and 17 seconds ago, saying: later [Wed Jun 13 17:27:01 2001]
20:19:28 <cleverdra> dired, seen trey?
20:19:28 <dired> trey was last seen on #forth 11 hours, 26 minutes and 51 seconds ago, saying: Those Darn Aussies (tm). [Wed Jun 13 08:52:37 2001]
20:19:36 <aaronl> dired: status?
20:19:37 <dired> Since Wed Jun 13 16:05:07 2001, there have been 0 modifications and 2 questions.  I have been awake for 4 hours, 14 minutes, 29 seconds this session, and currently reference 5258 factoids. Addressing is in require mode.
20:19:51 <cleverdra> hello aaron.
20:24:53 --- quit: I440r ()
20:35:54 <Trey> Howdy, cleverdra
20:36:39 <Trey> dired: Whasup?
20:36:39 <dired> i don't know, trey
20:37:17 <Trey> dired: what do you know?
20:37:17 <dired> trey: i don't know
20:37:29 <Trey> dired: get a life.
20:37:30 <dired> Trey: what?
20:37:46 <Trey> dired: list
20:37:46 <dired> Trey: i'm not following you...
20:37:54 <Trey> dired: apparently not.
20:37:55 <dired> Trey: sorry...
20:38:03 <Trey> dired: No Problem (tm)
20:38:04 <dired> Trey: sorry...
20:38:18 <Trey> So much for Elisa.
20:39:04 <Trey> Paging Mr. cleverdra.
20:40:08 <cleverdra> Mr. Cleverdra is out right now, can you leave a message?
20:40:16 <cleverdra> Hello Trey.
20:40:21 <Trey> Howdy.
20:40:30 <Trey> I haven't heard from Sean yet :-(
20:40:44 <cleverdra> dired, whasup is <reply>The sky, whatja think\!
20:40:45 <dired> OK, cleverdra.
20:40:51 <cleverdra> dired: Whasup?
20:40:51 <dired> The sky, whatja think!
20:41:12 <Trey> dired: dump core
20:41:12 <dired> Trey: what?
20:41:21 <cleverdra> Trey - sadness.  Why don't you open discussion on the Enth mailing list about the blocking API words?
20:41:41 <Trey> Ok.
20:41:52 <cleverdra> dired, dump core is <reply>but.. but.. but... \I'm implemented in Perl\!  Dumping core is WRONG\.
20:41:53 <dired> OK, cleverdra.
20:43:37 <cleverdra> dired, insult foo?
20:43:37 <dired> foo? is nothing but an infected enema-bucketful of pointy-nosed yoo-hoo.
20:44:07 <cleverdra> dired, insult Focus-stealer
20:44:08 <dired> Focus-stealer is nothing but a goatish bucket of contemptible snake assholes.
20:44:16 <cleverdra> woah.
20:44:46 <cleverdra> The last three words there are pretty strong in combination, ne?
20:45:18 <Trey> I don't know how anyone could hold snake assholes in contempt.
20:45:42 <cleverdra> Right now I'm working on getting cLIeNUX installed on my Linux machine.  It's... interesting.  Forthy in a wierd way I haven't totally grokked yet.
20:46:24 <cleverdra> Trey - they don't answer questions.  They don't return phone calls.  They don't show up at court.  They don't rise when the Judge comes in.  They don't respect the Law.  How can they be held otherwise?
20:49:14 <cleverdra> dired, clienux is www.clienux.org
20:49:15 <dired> OK, cleverdra.
20:49:29 <aaronl>      Name Error: The domain name does not exist. 
20:49:48 <cleverdra> .com, I mean
20:50:00 <cleverdra> dired, clienux =~ s/org/com/
20:50:00 <dired> OK, cleverdra
20:50:15 <cleverdra> dired, clienux also comes with a pforth with >100 Linux syscalls
20:50:16 <dired> cleverdra: i'm not following you...
20:50:23 <cleverdra> dired, clienux is also comes with a pforth with >100 Linux syscalls
20:50:23 <dired> okay, cleverdra.
20:50:47 <cleverdra> dired, clienux is also later versions expected to have a Forth built into the Linux kernel in its own kernel thread
20:50:47 <dired> okay, cleverdra.
20:51:52 <cleverdra> dired, clienux is also may replace libc with a *tiny* library of syscall wrappers (see libsys)
20:51:52 <dired> okay, cleverdra.
20:51:59 <cleverdra> dired, clienux is also (see h3sm)
20:51:59 <dired> okay, cleverdra.
20:52:01 --- mode: aaronl set mode: +o cleverdra
20:52:08 <cleverdra> thank you, aaron
20:52:27 <cleverdra> I'll define libsys and h3sm later
20:53:22 <aaronl> please do so... i'm, interested
20:54:40 <cleverdra> They're on that URL, and h3sm is often spoken of by its author in clf
20:54:49 <Trey> dired: clienux?
20:54:49 <dired> i guess clienux is http://www.clienux.com or comes with a pforth with >100 Linux syscalls or later versions expected to have a Forth built into the Linux kernel in its own kernel thread or may replace libc with a *tiny* library of syscall wrappers (see libsys) or (see h3sm)
20:55:18 <aaronl> that needs some punctuation
20:55:46 <cleverdra> h3sm is Hohensee's 3-stack machine, or something like.  It has a return stack, a pointer stack, and a 'pyte' stack, which is full of 'pytes' which are sized 1 to 255 bytes.
20:56:17 <cleverdra> err.  hee.
20:56:19 <cleverdra> dired, h3sm?
20:56:19 <dired> no idea, cleverdra
20:56:26 <cleverdra> Hmph.
20:56:31 <cleverdra> dired, h3sm is Hohensee's 3-stack machine, or something like.  It has a return stack, a pointer stack, and a 'pyte' stack, which is full of 'pytes' which are sized 1 to 255 bytes.
20:56:31 <dired> OK, cleverdra.
20:57:17 <cleverdra> Mr. Hohensee is right now playing with h3sm running as a kernel thread in Linux.  Extremely low-level, and extremely cool.  Think of the power there!
20:58:12 <cleverdra> He also made shasm, which is an assembler in shell.  libsys is just what I said, a library of syscalls with some platform-dependent stuff for argv/etc handling.
20:58:56 <cleverdra> To be honest, I've not yet used *any* of these.  I'm trying to install cLIeNUX right now.  I've had problems with my (dated) versions of libsys and h3sm and will work with newer ones after the install is finished, and I don't know assembly to deal with shasm.
20:59:05 <aaronl> I think i might have seen h3sm mentioned on linux-kernel
20:59:15 <cleverdra> Still, all of this is very very interesting, which is why I'm pursuing it.
20:59:46 <cleverdra> clienux also involves some rather novel ideas about linux and unix.
21:00:09 <aaronl> i'm glad it's not Yet Another distribution
21:00:19 <cleverdra> It's rather not =)
21:01:17 * aaronl struggles with alignment
21:01:22 <cleverdra> The part I downloaded (X is seperate) is about 11 megabytes, contains a full system with disproportionately large documentation, an interesting forth I've still to play with, and some immediate differences.
21:01:31 <cleverdra> aaron - eww, alignment?
21:01:54 <aaronl> yes, ugh
21:02:12 <aaronl> aligning stuff on boundries
21:02:14 <cleverdra> I've managed to avoid that by never writing a portable ANS Forth program.  What're you having problems with, though?
21:02:29 <aaronl> nah, i'm not using forth unfortunately
21:03:04 <cleverdra> oh.  hm.  You mean you're dealing with alignment that is more complicated to arrive at than with ALIGNED or FALIGNED or MAXALIGNED or like words?
21:03:23 <aaronl> huh?
21:03:58 <cleverdra> those are what ANS Forth uses to align HERE at certain boundaries so that some machines can store and retrieve certain types of data.
21:04:02 <aaronl> heh
21:04:15 <cleverdra> what're you doing then?
21:04:24 <aaronl> working on C, on a networked app
21:04:40 <aaronl> i have to write some pretty sick stuff to deal with the big endian, unaligned data
21:04:42 <Trey> Lucky you, aaronl.
21:04:59 <aaronl> #define ENTRY(x,y) {(x!=-1)? \
21:04:59 <aaronl>                         (63-((G_BYTE_ORDER==G_BIG_ENDIAN)? \
21:04:59 <aaronl>                              x: \
21:04:59 <aaronl>                              (x%8)+8*(7-x/8))): \
21:04:59 <aaronl>                         -1, \
21:05:00 <aaronl>                     y}
21:05:01 <cleverdra> aaron - erm.  Good luck =)
21:05:54 <cleverdra> That's... interesting.
21:06:09 <aaronl> heheh
21:06:29 <cleverdra> I'm manly enough to admit that I have no clue at all what you're doing there =)
21:06:33 <aaronl> =)
21:06:55 <aaronl> i'm calculating the offset of a bit in a big-endian quadword -- at compile time!
21:07:01 --- quit: MrReach (Read error to MrReach[209.181.43.184]: Connection reset by peer)
21:07:24 <cleverdra> Oh, OK.
21:08:31 --- join: MrReach (mrreach@209.181.43.184) joined #forth
21:09:37 <cleverdra> aaron - I'm thinking of how I'd do this in Forth and it doesn't seem at all difficult to me, so maybe I'm thinking of something else.  You're asking for, say, a mapping for the 10th bit of a little-ending quadword to the 10th bit of a big-endian quadword, ne?
21:10:42 <aaronl> Well
21:10:53 <aaronl> I just read in quadwords from the network
21:10:57 <aaronl> and they're in big endian format
21:11:12 <aaronl> but i want to test the Nth bit, without flipping the quadwords into little endian at runtime
21:11:13 <cleverdra> OK.
21:11:26 <aaronl> so that macro computes what the _real_ index of that bit is, when the quadword is in big endian format
21:11:36 <cleverdra> Makes sense.  You flip the mask you're testing with at compiletime instead of the words.
21:11:55 <aaronl> (note that the bits are numbered from the right instead of the left for no good reason)
21:11:56 <aaronl> exactly
21:14:02 <Trey> Does the target system support 64bit ints?
21:14:09 <aaronl> It might. this is portable.
21:14:19 <aaronl> otherwise, they are emulated by the compiler
21:14:32 <aaronl> ... which is slow but actually seems to come out better than treating the int as a char[]
21:14:38 <aaronl> (which would avoid this problem)
21:14:40 <Trey> Ok, then you know you have 64bit int support in the compiler.
21:14:48 <aaronl> yeah, i hope :)
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21:16:00 <Trey> What do x and y represent?
21:16:12 <aaronl> i'm filling in a struct. i used cryptic names :)
21:16:19 <aaronl> i use it like:
21:16:34 <aaronl>     ENTRY(1, "Can Upload Files" ),
21:16:34 <aaronl>     ENTRY(2, "Can Download Files" ),
21:16:35 <aaronl> etc
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21:17:01 <aaronl> seen cleverdra? :)
21:17:03 <cleverdra> bloody
21:17:05 <cleverdra> When was I cut off?
21:17:25 <cleverdra> hello aaron =)
21:18:40 <Trey> I only saw you drop recently.
21:19:48 <Trey> 1,2 represent bit indexes?
21:19:50 <cleverdra> I'm going to have to go find a Forth to think about this fully.
21:19:56 <aaronl> yes
21:20:01 <Trey> 0 or 1 based?
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21:23:13 <Trey> aaronl: You probably want to reconstruct your macro.
21:23:43 <Trey> You can simplify it by predicating the macro definition on the host endianness.
21:24:33 <aaronl> yeah, that's true
21:26:57 * Trey needs sleep, badly.
21:27:11 <Trey> G'night, all.
21:27:18 * Trey is away: sleeping. [23:26]
21:27:53 <nate37> night
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21:41:41 <adu> hi i'm wondering about forth<->C interaction
21:42:05 <adu> can anyone tell me anything about swig wrappers? or 'pswrap' or anything like that for C and forth?
21:44:09 <edrx> I never heard of a swig wrapper for Forth, but I'm not well-informed on that matters
21:44:29 <adu> do you have any idea of how SWIG works in the first place?
21:44:54 <edrx> only a very rough idea
21:45:28 <nate37> how is runtime code appeneded to a defintion in forth?
21:45:29 <nate37> DOES>?
21:46:30 <adu> nate37: you could probably manuall alter the definition if its at the end, but that takes knowledge of the impl your working with
21:47:02 <nate37> adu: :)
21:47:05 <nate37> making an implementation
21:47:08 <nate37> for ti-85
21:47:22 <adu> nate37: what you could do is use 'see' if it has that, and somehow pipe that into a new definition that overwrites the old word with new code
21:47:43 <edrx> it inspects the C files in x.c and creates other C files (x.swig-python.c, say) - when you compile al these C files and link with the python libs you'll get a python with primitives for the C functions in x.c
21:47:48 <adu> o n/m
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/01.06.13