00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.06.10
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14:24:24 * cleverdra peers suspiciously at the topic
14:24:44 <cleverdra> not *quite* enough to go on, but I'll bet that's evil =)
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16:21:45 <cleverdra> hello lar.
16:21:52 <lar1> Hi
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18:06:48 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
18:29:19 <futhin> how big are forth compilers typically?
18:31:46 <TheBlueWizard> minimum, average, or kitchen sink?
18:31:51 <futhin> average
18:32:18 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...I'd say 25K should give you a decent Forth system
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18:33:02 <futhin> ok, cool
18:35:27 <futhin> how is forth lowerlevel than c?  (friend is asking)
18:38:27 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...several things: (traditional) Forth lacks the notion of data types, true local variables, and several other things.  It is more like a very fancy macro assembler
18:39:24 <TheBlueWizard> mind you, Forth isn't an assembler...even though it shares many attributes with it
18:39:34 <TheBlueWizard> does that help?
18:43:04 <futhin> yup
18:43:05 <futhin> lots
18:43:08 <futhin> thanks :)
18:44:50 <TheBlueWizard> np...there is a version of Forth that is run ina Java applet (online)
18:44:59 <futhin> my friend asks what traits does it share with the assembler?
18:46:27 <futhin> nevermind
18:46:41 <futhin> i'm just telling him that each primitive is basically a macro of assembly code
18:46:55 <TheBlueWizard> typelessness, explicit specification of operations, sometimes even the memory layout (e.g. 5 ALLOT 6 , 8 , etc.), asm and HW interfacing, ....
18:53:51 <futhin> there's no such thing as a system stack is there?
18:55:00 <TheBlueWizard> Forth is best described as a virtual machine with two stacks
18:59:53 <futhin> friend asked me to represent this code in forth
18:59:54 <futhin> or( int i=0; i<SIZE; i++)
18:59:54 <futhin>      array[i] = array[i] * 2;
18:59:59 <futhin> for( int i=0; i<SIZE; i++)
18:59:59 <futhin>      array[i] = array[i] * 2;
19:01:44 <futhin> nevermind :)
19:03:14 <TheBlueWizard> 30 CONSTANT size   CREATE array size CELLS ALLOT  : fragment size 0 DO I CELLS array + DUP @ 2* SWAP ! LOOP ;
19:03:23 <TheBlueWizard> that'll do it
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19:23:42 <futhin> would you say that forth is rpn because it's an easier way to manipulate the stack?
19:25:29 <TheBlueWizard> rpn is a natural way to explicitly manipulate the stack, yes....but the real reason is that it eliminates the need for internal parsing of expressions...simplifies everything
19:25:49 <TheBlueWizard> and that's one reason why Forth is so small
19:31:31 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go....bye all
19:31:37 <futhin> ok
19:31:39 <futhin> see ya
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20:08:28 <adu> any average users mind if I interview you?
20:08:47 <futhin> go ahead
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20:37:59 <futhin> <-- i'm beginner forth coder.. is that average enough for you? :P
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/01.06.10