00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.04.07
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02:25:02 <Irobot> morning, anyone awake?
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09:43:49 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' by ChanServ
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10:06:19 <speuler> g'day
10:08:28 <I440r> hey dood
10:08:35 <I440r> im about to go house huntin :)
10:08:46 <speuler> bills for the tax office ?
10:09:10 <speuler> tonight is meeting of fig uk on ircnet #figuk
10:10:00 <speuler> some proms along. chris jakeman eo
10:10:41 <speuler> i'll be off soon, hunting for roaches
10:10:52 <speuler> the mystery kind i mean
10:12:03 <I440r> :)
10:12:20 <speuler> the 200 motels overture kind
10:12:25 <I440r> ill hafta remember that channel :)
10:12:30 <I440r> i go in #coders on ircnet :)
10:12:57 <I440r> i log in with my latptop at work these days
10:13:15 <I440r> so ive been in channel all day for afew days last week :)
10:13:21 <I440r> looking for tcn
10:13:27 <I440r> but he was never here :)
10:15:06 <I440r> ok im gone...
10:15:10 <I440r> cul8er :)
10:15:15 <speuler> cya
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15:47:00 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
15:47:27 * TheBlueWizard waves to I440r
16:01:58 --- join: Irobot (b@usr240.wb.intergrafix.net) joined #forth
16:02:18 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Irobot
16:02:30 <Irobot> hi blue, what's up?
16:03:21 * Irobot is SHOCKED to see ppl! :-0
16:03:31 <Irobot> re 440
16:03:56 <Irobot> have i missed much?
16:04:38 <Irobot> is mark awake/present?
16:05:13 <TheBlueWizard> :)
16:05:34 <TheBlueWizard> dunno re I440r/mark...likely he's busy filing tax returns :)
16:05:36 <Irobot> maybe i'm lagged?
16:05:48 <Irobot> blue, ah. so did he tell you about me?
16:06:22 <TheBlueWizard> nope....I440r never told me about you....
16:06:38 <Irobot> ok, he invited me to join the isforth devteam
16:06:42 <Irobot> yesterday
16:06:53 <Irobot> or two days ago i forget which
16:07:36 <Irobot> we have filosophical diffs but "I'm gonna fix them!" :) hehehehehehehehee
16:07:42 <Irobot> :)
16:08:30 <TheBlueWizard> hehe....I440r does have strong views...I find him refreshing :)
16:08:59 <Irobot> strong convictions can be good and refreshing.
16:09:09 <Irobot> hold- gonna switch servers
16:09:35 --- quit: Irobot (changing servers)
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16:09:53 <Irobot> re ping me?
16:10:42 <Irobot> so what were you saying, blue?
16:10:58 <TheBlueWizard> last I said: hehe....I440r does have strong views...I find him refreshing :)
16:11:13 <TheBlueWizard> yeah....it can be good and refreshing
16:11:17 <Irobot> oh, yea. we hve diffs too.
16:11:36 <Irobot> so what's your take on forth?
16:12:14 <TheBlueWizard> oh, I am kind of an old-timer on Forth stuff....my knowledge "stops" at 1993 level ;)
16:12:26 <Irobot> post-<yuck>-ansi
16:12:37 <Irobot> :)
16:12:44 <Irobot> i'm pre-yuck
16:12:46 <Irobot> hehehe
16:12:49 <TheBlueWizard> never used ANSI stuff, cuz never have had it here :)
16:12:54 <Irobot> ah
16:13:03 <TheBlueWizard> but there are few good ideas in ANSI stuff though
16:13:13 <Irobot> i don't know enuf to answer that
16:13:22 <Irobot> what do you want to do with isforth?
16:15:05 <TheBlueWizard> play with it :)   bbeyond that, I dunno....I have bunch of projects that I want to do, and Forth isn't in any of them, except for that little OS project which is put on the back burner
16:15:16 * TheBlueWizard quietly eats a stray b
16:15:32 <Irobot> that's funny
16:15:33 <Irobot> hehee
16:15:35 <Irobot> `b'
16:15:42 <Irobot> lol
16:15:47 <TheBlueWizard> :)
16:15:52 <Irobot> hehehe
16:16:05 <Irobot> i'm never quite seen a typo referred to that way
16:16:12 <Irobot> lol
16:16:24 <Irobot> s/m/ve
16:17:19 <Irobot> welp, i told mark i've been thinking of `imposing' forth within linux
16:17:27 <TheBlueWizard> oh...that s/// can be so boring at times....I like to eat something that should not be there anyway ;)
16:17:28 <Irobot> the kernel
16:17:40 <TheBlueWizard> imposing?
16:17:43 <Irobot> i'll consider your way
16:17:54 * TheBlueWizard grins
16:18:00 <Irobot> yea, stronger than just "integrating"
16:18:11 <TheBlueWizard> besides, Forth doesn't "know" s/// stuff ;)
16:18:13 <Irobot> i want to `forth' Linux
16:18:25 <TheBlueWizard> hmm!
16:18:51 <Irobot> there's too much obtuse & redundant code to optimze `The right Way'
16:19:15 <Irobot> a leaner FLinux
16:19:28 <TheBlueWizard> the Forth bit for my OS project would be analogous to Open Firmware (scaled down), or more like monitor like Apple ][ monitor
16:19:28 <Irobot> the right was is the threaded way! 
16:19:45 <Irobot> ok, i understand those analogies
16:20:00 <TheBlueWizard> you ever played with Apple ][ machines?
16:20:53 <Irobot> yea, i found one today while helping a friend clean out house that he just bought; with two drives and a ps1
16:20:59 <Irobot> ][e + crt
16:21:13 <Irobot> i'm psyhced
16:21:20 <Irobot> but i don't know if they work
16:21:35 <Irobot> i'm a digital packrat
16:21:38 <Irobot> hehehehhehehe
16:21:47 <Irobot> :)
16:21:56 <Irobot> had a ][
16:22:00 <TheBlueWizard> cool....if you get that working, you can get into the monitor by typing CALL -151 at the Applesoft prompt
16:22:14 <Irobot> got a trs-80 8" cp/m machine too- 1985 that still works
16:22:28 <Irobot> yea i have to find my apple books in storage
16:22:39 <Irobot> thank god i'm not into throwing books away
16:23:01 <Irobot> i've only burned one book so far
16:23:07 * TheBlueWizard smiles....he's a digital packrat too....still have two Amigas and C-64, in addition to a minitower PC (Winblows 95) and a laptop (Linux)
16:23:13 <Irobot> it was a blasphemous spiritual text
16:23:33 <TheBlueWizard> blasphemous?  what book is that?!@
16:24:11 <Irobot> don't remember but I worship GOD almighty and that book was NOT about him.
16:24:42 <TheBlueWizard> a cult book, perhaps....good idea to burn it :))))
16:25:04 <Irobot> yea i found it on a "free" library table and it disgusted me
16:25:16 <Irobot> so i took it to prevent anyone else from learning from it.
16:26:01 <Irobot> i don't know what it was about- i never read it.
16:27:13 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....ok....just curious
16:27:22 <Irobot> that's ok. :)
16:27:39 <Irobot> i don't mind at all.
16:28:46 <Irobot> on the former matter, i'd like to see the linux kernel reduced to < 300k packed with much replacing common biaries.
16:29:10 <Irobot> maintaining posix-ness would be nice
16:29:28 <Irobot> a c/c++ -> forth translator
16:29:49 <Irobot> an optimizer of forth code
16:29:53 * TheBlueWizard smiles re: shrinking Linux down....very hard to do.....
16:30:31 <TheBlueWizard> there were some attempts at C --> Forth translation, but it doesn't seem to be really panning out
16:30:41 <Irobot> not really: optimze out the commonality of kernel src code into forth
16:30:59 <Irobot> the trans doesn't need to be complete but produce a good head start
16:31:09 <TheBlueWizard> C++ --> Forth....now that is very hard to do....essentially have to set up a C++ RTS stuff and all that....
16:31:24 <Irobot> can you imagine the amount of redundancy in the kernel?
16:31:35 <Irobot> forth does RTS VERY well.
16:31:57 <Irobot> translate the c compile structs to forth runtime structs
16:32:03 <Irobot> dictionary?
16:32:12 <Irobot> this is where mark and i disagree tho
16:32:44 * TheBlueWizard has not waded through the kernel src
16:33:12 <Irobot> he wants to separate head/body - for turnkey apps and i said that separation was not...
16:33:19 <Irobot> worthwhile
16:33:24 <Irobot> so we disagree
16:34:05 <Irobot> and he also wants separation for space but i said that sep. increases space reqs
16:34:19 <Irobot> that each word should be "atomic" in mem, 
16:34:25 <Irobot> ala fig mem model
16:34:41 <Irobot> not eforth nor f83.
16:34:54 <Irobot> i never liked separation cuz
16:35:39 <Irobot> i saw it(ie in eforth) as limiting max ram usage cuz eforth86 put names at top of seg and it
16:35:55 <Irobot> added complexity to dict/name management unnecessa
16:36:07 <Irobot> .
16:36:13 <Irobot> [diatribe done] :)
16:36:15 * TheBlueWizard doesn't have strong views on Forth stuff...just that he is an old timer :)
16:36:32 <Irobot> have you used/tried f83/eforth/fig?
16:36:38 <Irobot> which?
16:36:48 <Irobot> mostly i'm a thinker.
16:38:10 <TheBlueWizard> ok...I used to dabbled on 64-Forth (cartridge based), then when dabbled in Pygmy and one other forth....then very briefly played with Win4th (or was that 4thwin?)
16:38:48 <Irobot> ok- that's a good and long history!
16:39:05 * TheBlueWizard laughs
16:39:11 <Irobot> i think win4th, from the guy who made f-pc
16:39:51 <Irobot> blue, i'm not a rude man, don't be concerned about being rididculed, that's not my way.
16:39:56 <TheBlueWizard> I think so...that win4th has a HUGE vocabulary just to deal with Win API....yikes!
16:40:12 <Irobot> yea, i heard of it- never used it tho
16:40:29 <Irobot> i'd also like to see an alt gui too
16:41:25 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...that'd be cool...an alt gui...
16:41:54 <Irobot> "Fui" (TM)
16:42:01 <Irobot> lol
16:42:39 <TheBlueWizard> lol
16:44:26 <Irobot> with embedded forth, #!/bin/sh would become optional for those who know forth (not newbies)
16:44:57 <TheBlueWizard> :)
16:45:01 --- quit: Fare (Ping timeout for Fare[195.154.50.24])
16:46:02 <Irobot> one down four to go
16:46:21 <TheBlueWizard> what?
16:46:29 <Irobot> fare was cut
16:46:38 <Irobot> ok 7 to go
16:46:51 <TheBlueWizard> you have things against them?
16:47:03 <Irobot> nope just having idle fun :)
16:47:08 <TheBlueWizard> oh :)
16:47:35 <TheBlueWizard> like the contest to see who can hold his/her breath the longest.....
16:47:46 <TheBlueWizard> just a warped digital variety
16:48:34 <Irobot> i'm thinking that ` can be separated from shells and added to kernel so forth engine can intercept code and exec it
16:51:32 <TheBlueWizard> hrm...
16:52:26 <Irobot> or maybe forth would be an embedded shell...
16:52:59 <Irobot> "no bash/csh/tcsh/zsh/rc etc need apply here" 
16:53:03 * TheBlueWizard decides to let you do all the imagining....
16:53:15 <Irobot> i'd prefer a conversation
16:53:22 <TheBlueWizard> hehe
16:53:45 <Irobot> are you otherwise enaged in another activity?
16:54:03 <TheBlueWizard> yes
16:54:44 <Irobot> ok, please msg me when mark comes in. ok?
16:55:18 <TheBlueWizard> I would probably be offline in an half hour (need to eat....)
16:55:32 <Irobot> ok
16:55:33 * TheBlueWizard glances at the clock...yikes!
16:55:41 --- nick: Irobot -> IroMsgMe
16:56:06 <IroMsgMe> i'm still here
16:56:14 <TheBlueWizard> heh
16:56:29 <IroMsgMe> what TZ are you?
16:57:30 <TheBlueWizard> East Coast
16:57:40 <IroMsgMe> ok, penna here
16:58:00 <TheBlueWizard> I haven't had dinner yet! :)
16:58:50 <IroMsgMe> enjoy.
16:59:11 * TheBlueWizard grins
17:23:25 <TheBlueWizard> got to go....bye
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19:33:28 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard
19:33:37 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all again
19:43:10 <nate37> hmm
19:43:18 <nate37> any pointers to OO forth implementation?
19:43:51 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....try taygeta....but I doubt if it has some stuff on OO forth....
19:44:56 <nate37> i'm getting the whole ftp tree for forth
19:45:02 <nate37> didn't see anything on the http pages tho
19:46:54 * TheBlueWizard nods
19:47:14 <TheBlueWizard> there are many different flavors of OO implementations :)
19:48:14 <nate37> yea... .
19:50:03 <nate37> hmm i wonder if fare has anything on his ftp site
19:50:15 <nate37> do you happen to know the addr?
19:52:11 <TheBlueWizard> nope
20:03:04 <ult> nate is a moron who pretends to have even the slightest clue, so just ignore him.
20:04:11 <TheBlueWizard> oh?
20:05:30 <nate37> heh
20:06:27 <nate37> ult also has a unique interest in pushing people to suicide... .
20:08:11 <ult> point being?
20:09:24 * TheBlueWizard thinks this weird night be the result of eating wrong food....
20:09:40 <ult> I ate some pizza from pizza hut
20:09:50 <ult> I'm also pissy because my life sucks even more than nate and lar's combined
20:09:56 <ult> so i'm just taking it out on IRC
20:09:57 <nate37> heh
20:10:31 <nate37> my life doesn't suck anymore so you have more reason to be depressed >8P
20:11:23 <ult> sure it does
20:11:31 <ult> why don't you kill yourself and give me your soul so I can open a portal to hell
20:12:22 <nate37> hah
20:12:30 <nate37> still playingn around with that?
20:12:59 <ult> duh
20:13:01 * TheBlueWizard shakes his head .... CERT/Albert thing, and now this!
20:13:02 <ult> i've got nothing better to do
20:13:18 <ult> so be polite and let me RAPE YOUR CARCASS
20:13:47 <nate37> uh huh..... .
20:13:59 <nate37> anyways afk -- dinner
20:14:24 <ult> Mommy calling?
20:14:27 <ult> Fucker.
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20:22:04 --- log: stopped forth/01.04.07
20:22:21 --- log: started forth/01.04.07
20:22:21 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth
20:22:21 --- topic: 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth'
20:22:21 --- topic: set by ChanServ on [Sat Apr 07 09:43:26 2001]
20:22:21 --- names: list (clog @TheBlueWizard IroMsgMe lar1 nate37 I440r ult)
20:22:30 <TheBlueWizard> rello clog
20:25:02 <I440r> ]\hi guys!!!
20:25:28 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o I440r
20:25:32 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o clog
20:25:36 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o IroMsgMe
20:25:58 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o lar1
20:26:01 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o nate37
20:26:03 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o ult
20:26:51 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r!
20:27:05 <TheBlueWizard> how are ya doing?
20:27:18 <I440r> hi man
20:27:24 <I440r> im back home rite now...
20:27:34 <I440r> drove in from pa yesterday so we could go house huntin today
20:27:38 <I440r> drive back tomorrow :)
20:27:56 <TheBlueWizard> lots of driving, eh?
20:28:02 <I440r> just a little
20:28:06 <I440r> " <<-- this much
20:28:06 <I440r> hehe
20:28:33 <TheBlueWizard> hehe
20:39:09 <I440r> so what u doin these days dood ?
20:40:59 <TheBlueWizard> VERY RIGHT NOW, RELAXIN'....BUT TOMORROW i GONNA FINISH FILING TAX RETURNS, THEN DO SOME MORE CODING, i HOPE
20:41:05 <TheBlueWizard> oops!!!!
20:41:17 <TheBlueWizard> I didn't mean to caps stuff
20:41:17 <I440r> :)
20:41:20 <I440r> hehe
20:41:34 * TheBlueWizard gotta watch the screen next time :)
20:42:36 <TheBlueWizard> and what about you?
20:43:32 <TheBlueWizard> I also am trying to set up the mail system on my Linux....having some problems....
20:46:11 <I440r> im working for mars electronics in PA
20:46:22 <I440r> im working on a bill acceptor for canada :)
20:46:32 <I440r> putting the new $10 in the code
20:46:34 <TheBlueWizard> I see...is this job cool or what?
20:46:35 <I440r> the purple one :)
20:46:42 <I440r> its MEGA cool
20:46:50 * TheBlueWizard smiles
20:47:05 <IroMsgMe> evening
20:47:06 <TheBlueWizard> the purple $10 bill, eh?
20:47:12 <I440r> ive been working on a different acceptor too taht was taking the 1999 series us $100 and confusing it with the $5
20:47:17 <TheBlueWizard> hiya IroMsgMe
20:47:24 <I440r> iro!!!
20:47:28 <ult> wait i thought it was the 2001 100$?
20:47:39 --- nick: IroMsgMe -> IroSlbers
20:47:40 <I440r> yea for the past few weeks ive had 90 $100 bills on my desk hehe
20:47:46 <I440r> no
20:47:46 <IroSlbers> basically
20:47:49 <I440r> well
20:47:56 <I440r> they arent officially released yet
20:47:58 <IroSlbers> just awoke from nap
20:48:16 <I440r> they were accidently released in calif
20:48:22 <I440r> about 10 thousand of them
20:48:40 * TheBlueWizard chuckles
20:48:55 <TheBlueWizard> I440r: ok, you better intro Iro to me....
20:49:08 <I440r> erm... if i knew him i would :)))
20:49:17 <I440r> unless i know him with a different nick :)
20:49:19 * IroSlbers wipes the sleep from eyes and considers decaf coffee 
20:49:29 <I440r> im assuming he is a forth coder tho so that makes him cool :)
20:49:52 <IroSlbers> we chatted yesterdaay [dont lie] :)
20:49:56 <I440r> aha
20:50:02 <I440r> yea but u used a different nick :)
20:50:07 * TheBlueWizard laughs
20:50:13 <IroSlbers> : who? ( --s) ." This is me" cr ;
20:50:16 <I440r> i still have ur email address postit noted to my laptop :)
20:50:36 * IroSlbers chuckles
20:50:53 --- nick: IroSlbers -> Irobot
20:51:05 <I440r> :)
20:51:14 <I440r> now i remember u :P~
20:51:22 --- nick: Irobot -> IroSlbers
20:51:25 <IroSlbers> good
20:51:28 <IroSlbers> :>
20:51:29 <TheBlueWizard> so....intro?
20:51:39 <I440r> iro meet tbw
20:51:42 <I440r> tbw meet iro
20:51:46 <I440r> nuff sed :P~
20:51:55 * IroSlbers guessess he wants to read the prev text.
20:51:58 <IroSlbers> t?
20:52:07 <I440r> iro i slooking for a linux based forth compiler written using nasm
20:52:16 <IroSlbers> no
20:52:17 <I440r> sound familiar ??? hehe
20:52:21 <IroSlbers> a forth based linux
20:52:23 * TheBlueWizard chuckles
20:52:33 <I440r> iro did u get to take a look at isforth sources then ?
20:52:49 <IroSlbers> nope but i did get the .zip
20:52:53 <I440r> if tcn would show up were sort of planning big changes to it 
20:52:56 <I440r> i think :P
20:53:01 <IroSlbers> 0.14?
20:53:06 <I440r> ?
20:53:30 <IroSlbers> yea 0.14.zip
20:53:39 <I440r> 0.14 what ?
20:53:51 <IroSlbers> yea isforth-0.14.zip
20:53:59 <I440r> erm
20:54:05 <I440r> thats not an official version number
20:54:10 <I440r> i aint put any on it yet :P~
20:54:17 <I440r> where u get that ?
20:54:18 <IroSlbers> haven't peek in it yet- welp, that's the only one i could find
20:54:21 <I440r> from tcn prolly :P
20:54:31 <IroSlbers> it's all over the place
20:54:38 <I440r> ftp://ftp.purplecoder.com/pub/isforth.tgz
20:54:38 <I440r> hehe
20:54:45 <I440r> it is ?????????????????????
20:54:45 <IroSlbers> nope
20:54:50 <I440r> tcn is in trouble now :P~
20:55:02 <IroSlbers> tcn?
20:55:09 <I440r> tcn is my co developer
20:55:12 <IroSlbers> ah
20:55:22 <I440r> i would add more but we need to plan this better
20:55:28 <I440r> me and tcn were trying to do just that
20:55:36 <IroSlbers> plan wht?
20:55:37 <I440r> but then i got this job and sort of disappeared for a while
20:55:44 <I440r> isforth kernel
20:55:47 <IroSlbers> ah
20:56:13 <IroSlbers> for a PA-ian you keep weird hours :)
20:56:33 <I440r> im not from pa
20:56:38 <I440r> im from upstate ny
20:56:41 <IroSlbers> moscow time?
20:56:42 <I440r> live in indiana
20:56:44 <IroSlbers> :)
20:56:51 <I440r> and lived most of life in england :P~
20:56:55 <I440r> indiana time
20:57:03 --- nick: IroSlbers -> Irobot
20:57:11 <Irobot> oh
20:57:16 <Irobot> welp
20:57:23 <Irobot> welcome tothe colonies
20:57:25 <Irobot> :)
20:57:39 <I440r> hehe
20:57:46 <I440r> i dont like pa :P~
20:57:52 <Irobot> ok so what are we doin? mtns?
20:57:54 <I440r> they wont let me carry my gun there :P~
20:58:01 <Irobot> you mean here
20:58:04 <Irobot> `'
20:58:07 <Irobot> `here'
20:58:08 <I440r> heeh
20:58:12 <I440r> i carry it anyway :P~
20:58:14 <I440r> bleh!
20:58:22 <Irobot> ok
20:58:35 <I440r> mtns?
20:58:41 <Irobot> mountains
20:58:51 <Irobot> aka impediments
20:58:54 <Irobot> hehehehehe
20:58:57 <I440r> oh
20:58:57 <I440r> yea
20:59:11 <TheBlueWizard> :)
20:59:23 <Irobot> isforth?
20:59:29 <I440r> so is isforth REALY distributed all over the place ?
20:59:35 <I440r> i dont like that yet...
20:59:38 <I440r> its not ready for it
20:59:42 <Irobot> i found it on google
20:59:55 <I440r> hehe
21:00:11 <I440r> google crawls thru sourceforge is why
21:00:15 <Irobot> and sourceforge.com
21:00:27 <I440r> but where did that version number come from
21:00:33 <Irobot> dunno
21:02:25 <I440r> hrm
21:04:59 --- quit: TheBlueWizard (barnes.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net)
21:04:59 --- quit: Irobot (barnes.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net)
21:06:05 --- join: Irobot (b@usr161.wb.intergrafix.net) joined #forth
21:06:10 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Irobot
21:06:30 <Irobot> re
21:06:48 <I440r> :)
21:06:56 <Irobot> what happened?
21:07:21 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: -o Irobot
21:07:25 <I440r> dunno
21:07:38 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Irobot
21:08:09 <Irobot> where were we?
21:08:15 <I440r> well
21:08:16 <I440r> i was here
21:08:18 <I440r> you were there
21:08:21 <I440r> :P~
21:08:26 <Irobot> oh right.
21:08:52 <I440r> heh
21:08:54 <I440r> duh!
21:09:00 <Irobot> )
21:09:21 <Irobot> so have you found -0.14 yet?
21:09:27 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforthlooking realy' by I440r
21:09:34 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@216.25.202.211) joined #forth
21:09:34 <I440r> i think i know where it came from
21:09:41 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard
21:09:45 <Irobot> good
21:10:12 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
21:10:16 <I440r> wb :)
21:10:25 <Irobot> re
21:10:32 <TheBlueWizard> :)
21:10:38 <TheBlueWizard> it got frozen
21:10:47 <Irobot> tolkien died
21:10:51 <Irobot> :)
21:11:35 <TheBlueWizard> eh?  JRR Tolkien died in '72
21:11:49 <Irobot> that's the server's name
21:13:57 <TheBlueWizard> oh...hehe
21:13:57 <TheBlueWizard> though I have a tremendous respect for JRR Tolkien.....
21:14:20 <I440r> hrm
21:14:24 <I440r> the hobbit was ok
21:14:31 <I440r> but no where near as good as dragonlance
21:14:34 <I440r> not even close
21:14:35 <Irobot> never read it
21:15:32 <TheBlueWizard> dragonlance?  that isn't a part of Middle Earth world
21:15:38 <I440r> no
21:15:44 <TheBlueWizard> completely separate stuff
21:15:48 --- quit: ult ([x]chat)
21:15:52 <I440r> dragonlance was by margret wheis and tracy hickman
21:15:59 <I440r> published by tsr inc
21:16:08 <Irobot> brb
21:16:30 <I440r> i think its tsr... mite be gettin confuzed
21:16:33 <I440r> its old age ya know
21:16:51 <Irobot>  
21:17:17 <Irobot> oh well
21:17:57 <TheBlueWizard> hehe...but you are not confused....however, tsr is bought by wizards of the coast, which in turn is bought by hasbro
21:18:10 <I440r> aha :)
21:18:58 <I440r> u NEED to get the dragonlance books
21:19:02 <I440r> there are 2 trilogies...
21:19:05 <I440r> get all 6 books
21:19:07 <TheBlueWizard> glad things are now clear....
21:19:08 <I440r> seriously!!!
21:19:12 <I440r> then read david eddings
21:19:22 <I440r> ANYTHING by david eddings
21:19:24 <Irobot> i've read eddings
21:19:34 <I440r> but anything by terry pratchet can be filed in the trash
21:19:43 <TheBlueWizard> I've read the original dragonlance trilogy....haven't read the later stuff
21:20:19 <TheBlueWizard> but I'm a HUGE fan of Drizzt stuff :)
21:20:28 <I440r> :)
21:20:58 <I440r> another book i would recomment to ANYONE.....
21:21:02 <I440r> Enders Game
21:21:13 <I440r> by Orson Scot Card
21:21:14 <TheBlueWizard> never heard of that one
21:21:16 <I440r> otr is it sctoo
21:21:20 <I440r> scott even
21:21:31 <I440r> its more sifi thatn fantasy...
21:21:40 <I440r> but it has an awesome twist right at the end
21:21:44 <I440r> brilliant book
21:22:05 <I440r> no peeking...
21:22:12 <Irobot> _
21:22:14 <I440r> read it... dont cheat or it will spoil it all :)
21:22:15 <Irobot> :)
21:23:21 <TheBlueWizard> :)
21:23:39 <I440r> i also liked battlefield earth (the book not the shitty movie)
21:24:14 <TheBlueWizard> I also like Dark Sun role playing....played in that setting for one and a half year....my fave char is a Thri-Kreen :)))
21:24:25 <I440r> foundation + empire are also cool :)
21:25:05 <Irobot> my #forth topic was accepted, perhaps i should be unoped
21:25:13 <TheBlueWizard> ah...that Asimov classic is indeed cool
21:25:19 <Irobot> it's in my .ircrc
21:25:54 <I440r> if u liked asimov you will like orson scot card
21:26:16 <Irobot> i suppose but i'm a really picky reader.
21:26:23 <I440r> me 2
21:26:37 <I440r> nah
21:26:39 <I440r> thats ok :)
21:26:50 <Irobot> i think im lagged
21:27:00 <I440r> chanserv resets the topic all the time anyway :)
21:27:06 <Irobot> oh ok
21:27:11 <I440r> no
21:27:19 <I440r> i think the servers are all lagged
21:27:21 <I440r> very badly
21:27:31 <I440r> i just got my "welcome to #forth" hehe
21:27:37 <Irobot> i tried switching but it didn't happen
21:29:24 <Irobot> brb
21:29:44 <Irobot> brin is down
21:29:55 <I440r> reset it...
21:30:01 <I440r> ctrl-alt-delete
21:30:03 <Irobot>  not my jog to reset
21:30:09 <I440r> sometimes works for me :)
21:30:33 <I440r> oh i thunked u said ur brain was down hehe
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21:30:59 --- join: Irobot (b@usr161.wb.intergrafix.net) joined #forth
21:31:00 <TheBlueWizard> lol
21:31:37 --- quit: Irobot (Irobot)
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21:32:33 <Irobot> re
21:32:47 <TheBlueWizard> rello Irobot
21:32:59 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Irobot
21:33:00 <Irobot> ping please?
21:33:12 <I440r> --- Ping reply from Irobot : 1.35 second(s)
21:33:18 <Irobot> decent.
21:33:20 <Irobot> hey
21:33:27 <Irobot> ok
21:33:33 <Irobot> isforth?
21:33:38 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' by I440r
21:36:51 <Irobot> somebodies utime is waay off ithink.
21:36:59 <Irobot> mark, it's yours
21:37:15 <I440r> uptime ?
21:37:18 <TheBlueWizard> Irobot: your ping is 2 seconds
21:37:22 <Irobot> or maybe mine.
21:37:29 <Irobot> thanks, b.
21:37:35 <I440r> mark4@gateway~$ uptime
21:37:35 <I440r>  23:32:37 up 4 days,  9:51,  3 users,  load average: 0.04, 0.08, 0.06
21:37:40 <I440r> my server keeps fscking up
21:37:45 <I440r> the network connection dies
21:37:53 <I440r> and the server has to be rebooted to fix it
21:37:59 <I440r> ive no fscking idea whats causing this either
21:38:04 <Irobot> you haven't reset your TZ its EDT now
21:38:13 <I440r> im in indiana
21:38:14 <Irobot> +1h
21:38:18 <Irobot> oh ok
21:38:19 <I440r> we DONT reset our time 
21:38:37 <Irobot> yea the "weirdos" of the union
21:38:38 <Irobot> :)
21:38:41 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....
21:38:42 <I440r> :)
21:38:46 <I440r> no
21:38:48 <I440r> the smart ones
21:38:49 <Irobot> why not set UTC?
21:38:55 <TheBlueWizard> Indiana tz is definitely bonged
21:39:02 <I440r> :)
21:39:35 <Irobot> 5
21:40:03 <TheBlueWizard> 5 what?
21:40:08 <Irobot> oops
21:40:15 <Irobot> 5 oops
21:41:31 <Irobot> isforth?
21:41:35 <TheBlueWizard> hmm?
21:43:19 <Irobot> compile time macros- to compile forth words to ml, thereby eliminating inner loop completely
21:44:18 <Irobot> eliminating inner loop calls in word being defined
21:44:55 <Irobot> and then run that code through a peep hole optimizer
21:45:07 <Irobot> oe,
21:45:22 <I440r> i wont touch any sort of optimizer for any language at all
21:45:23 <Irobot> 1+ 1+ = inc tos inc tos
21:45:35 <I440r> A-B-O-M-I-N-A-T-I-O-N
21:45:37 <Irobot> even peeping?
21:45:44 <I440r> not a fucking thing
21:45:54 <Irobot> why?
21:46:27 <I440r> because compilers taht optimize code are evil
21:46:41 <I440r> the shit i give to the compiler is what is supposed to compuile
21:46:54 <I440r> there should be an exact 1:1 co-relation between source and object
21:47:28 <Irobot> welp, until that cpu is designed, we all deal with it.
21:47:47 <Irobot> on the x86 the complex opcodes are optimzed
21:47:47 <TheBlueWizard> :)
21:47:50 <I440r> i disagree
21:48:00 <I440r> i only do pcorcessor level optimizations for fun
21:48:09 <Irobot> hehehee
21:48:16 <I440r> optimizing at the instruction level is stupid
21:48:17 <Irobot> and profit?
21:48:23 <I440r> optimize your algorithms
21:48:25 <I440r> not your code
21:48:48 <Irobot> right but there is a place for finetuning
21:49:03 <I440r> not realy
21:49:09 <I440r> fine tuning obfuscates the code
21:49:43 <Irobot> if fcode is compiled to a list then tranlating to ml will run quicker
21:50:03 <I440r> would be impossible to debug and would NOT be forth
21:50:38 <Irobot> but iapx doesn't run forth, it runs code
21:50:44 <I440r> isforth will have no optimizer build into it at all
21:50:50 <Irobot> ok
21:50:52 <I440r> FORTH runs forth
21:51:36 <Irobot> tell me about the word structure
21:51:47 <I440r> what word structure ??
21:51:49 <I440r> in isforth ?
21:51:52 <I440r> what part of it....
21:51:53 <Irobot> yes
21:52:01 <Irobot> the format?
21:52:10 <I440r> as in
21:52:13 <Irobot> layout of the word parts
21:52:15 <I440r> dw previous word
21:52:20 <I440r> dw pointer to code
21:52:21 <Irobot> lfa nfa cfa pfa
21:52:24 <I440r>  db length of name field
21:52:26 <I440r> db name field
21:52:31 <I440r> notice the odd order there ?
21:52:42 <Irobot> yea
21:52:43 <I440r> the code field pointer is usually placed AFTER the name field
21:52:45 <I440r> also
21:52:48 <Irobot> lfa cfa nfa pfa
21:53:01 <I440r> the last byte of the name field is NOT "0x80 or"
21:53:07 <I440r> but the count byte is
21:53:27 <Irobot> any bitflags in count?
21:53:33 <I440r> yes
21:53:39 <I440r> immediate and 0x80
21:53:52 <I440r> not sure if im going to have any special flags for compile only
21:53:59 <I440r> i think immediate words should be compi,le only
21:54:00 <Irobot> what about voc?
21:54:14 <Irobot> ok
21:54:15 <I440r> yes it uses vocabularies
21:54:24 <Irobot> vocbit?
21:54:26 <I440r> no
21:54:31 <I440r> no voc bit
21:54:39 <I440r> whats that for ?
21:54:40 <Irobot> how are vocs distinguished?
21:54:51 <Irobot> from non-voc words?
21:54:58 <I440r> hehe
21:55:05 <I440r> the CODE says it all :)
21:55:11 <I440r> the does> part
21:55:15 <Irobot> ok
21:55:20 <I440r> you say something like
21:55:22 <I440r> assembler
21:55:28 <I440r> or
21:55:32 <I440r> forth
21:55:48 <I440r> im not hashing yet tho
21:56:05 <I440r> i want to see how much  of a change in compile time a hash would achieve
21:56:16 <Irobot> ok
21:57:18 <Irobot> what else
21:57:26 <I440r> u realy need to look at the sources but get MY sources from ftp.purplecoder.com....
21:57:29 <I440r> well
21:57:42 <I440r> i had the idea originally of having transient vocabularies
21:57:55 <I440r> each vocabulary would be in its own segment
21:57:58 <I440r> so for instance
21:58:04 <Irobot> doing now
21:58:11 <I440r> all creating and compiling words could be in an compiler vocab
21:58:13 <Irobot> yea
21:58:20 <Irobot> pygmy
21:58:23 <I440r> which need not be part of the end product
21:58:26 <I440r> pygmy suciks
21:58:31 <I440r> its a pieceofshit :P
21:58:46 <I440r> its NOT forth
21:58:50 <I440r> hehe
21:59:13 <Irobot> should i get isforth/* or pub/isf* ?
21:59:16 <I440r> i realy dont like subroutine 
21:59:22 <I440r> they are the same
21:59:26 <I440r> isforth.tgz in /pub 
21:59:40 <I440r>  /pub/isforth is the extracted tgz
21:59:42 <Irobot> i was referring to pugmy's separation of immediate/compile words
21:59:45 <Irobot> k
21:59:56 <I440r> it uses an immediate vocabulary
22:01:20 <I440r> i beleve..
22:02:23 <TheBlueWizard> IIRC pygmy doesn't use IMMEDIATE flag; rather, while in compile mode it makes compiling vocabulary accessible
22:02:40 <Irobot> i don't remember either
22:02:55 <TheBlueWizard> it has been quite a while since I dabbled in Pygmy
22:06:45 <I440r> ive also got a couple of OTHER innovations not folded into those sources yet...
22:06:56 <Irobot> ie
22:06:56 <I440r> my word "word" calls query
22:07:00 <I440r> for instance
22:07:19 <Irobot> why?
22:07:30 <I440r> it simplified things elsewhere hehe
22:07:36 <I440r> but i cant remember why i decided to do it that way..
22:07:43 <Irobot> hehee
22:07:44 <I440r> but i realy made things alot easier
22:07:59 <I440r> and it seemed like the right way to do it to me
22:08:08 <Irobot> k
22:08:49 <TheBlueWizard> :)
22:10:53 <Irobot> it's time for me to sleep
22:11:06 <I440r> yea me 2
22:11:07 <I440r> hehe
22:11:09 <I440r> nite man
22:11:11 <Irobot> i'll study the source code
22:11:16 <I440r> :)
22:11:16 <Irobot> good night
22:11:20 <Irobot> to you both
22:11:23 --- quit: Irobot (Leaving)
22:12:10 <TheBlueWizard> me three
22:12:35 <I440r> hehe
22:15:32 <TheBlueWizard> got to go to bed...bye all
22:15:46 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/01.04.07