00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.03.10 00:23:07 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 01:43:03 --- quit: aaronl (brb new xchat) 01:43:10 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 01:43:59 --- quit: aaronl (The name's X. Bitch X.) 01:44:03 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 01:50:02 hey aaronl 01:50:45 hi again 01:50:58 i'm going to sleep soon 01:52:05 heh 01:52:11 I took a long bath + shower 01:52:56 cool 01:53:06 * aaronl is away: coding in my dreams 01:53:36 trying to get rid of this cold 01:53:38 heh, night 04:03:49 --- join: aaronl_ (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 04:04:22 --- quit: aaronl (Ping timeout for aaronl[vitelus.com]) 04:08:25 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 04:08:25 --- log: stopped forth/01.03.10 04:13:43 --- log: started forth/01.03.10 04:13:43 --- join: clog (nef@206.63.100.249) joined #forth 04:13:43 --- names: list (clog aaronl_ ree) 04:13:43 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 04:13:43 --- log: stopped forth/01.03.10 04:14:19 --- log: started forth/01.03.10 04:14:19 --- join: clog (nef@206.63.100.249) joined #forth 04:14:19 --- names: list (clog aaronl_ ree) 04:22:00 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 04:22:00 --- log: stopped forth/01.03.10 04:22:36 --- log: started forth/01.03.10 04:22:36 --- join: clog (nef@206.63.100.249) joined #forth 04:22:36 --- names: list (clog aaronl_ ree) 04:24:40 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +ntl 83 04:24:40 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' by ChanServ 04:31:54 --- quit: ree (Disconnecting) 06:26:15 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' by ChanServ 08:51:23 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 10:54:59 --- join: jrus (jrus@196.30.126.20) joined #forth 10:55:12 hello all 10:56:29 --- nick: jrus -> JohanRussouw 11:46:08 --- nick: JohanRussouw -> jj 11:47:22 --- quit: jj (using sirc version 2.211+4KSIRC/1.0) 12:10:44 --- join: johanrussouw (jrus@196.30.126.20) joined #forth 12:14:25 --- quit: johanrussouw (Bye All , my Webpage is http://junix.co.za , take care and God Bless) 12:15:18 --- join: johanrussouw (jrus@196.30.126.20) joined #forth 12:23:36 * aaronl_ is away: I'm busy 12:23:39 * aaronl_ is back (gone 00:00:03) 12:27:47 hi aaronl_ 12:30:22 I440r!!! 12:30:26 I440r: how's isforth? 12:41:38 hi :) 12:41:41 going slow 12:41:42 hi all 12:41:47 trying to work with tcn over email 12:42:08 hoping to see him in here some time today if i can :) 12:42:12 doubt it tho 12:42:43 hey 12:42:48 just commit some stuff :) 12:43:05 i wrote my first i386 routine last night, with ree's help 12:43:26 start: byte mov ax,[eax] 12:43:26 byte mov bx,[ebx] 12:43:26 cmp ax,0 12:43:26 je end 12:43:26 cmp ax,0 12:43:26 je end 12:43:28 cmp ax,bx 12:43:30 jne fail 12:43:32 inc eax 12:43:34 inc ebx 12:43:36 jmp start ; keep looping 12:43:38 end: pushd 1 12:43:40 ret 12:43:42 fail: pushd 0 12:43:44 ret 12:49:33 erm you cant move a BYTE from the address pointed to by eax into AX 12:49:43 you can move a byte pointed to by eax into al tho 12:50:26 instead of cmp ax,0 do a test ax 12:50:32 it does the same thing with the flags 12:50:33 test ax 12:50:38 jz ax_is_zero 12:50:49 :) 12:51:04 but for a first go thats ok :) 12:52:52 --- quit: johanrussouw (Ping timeout for johanrussouw[196.30.126.20]) 12:59:32 hmm 12:59:45 ax_is_zero ?!?! 13:00:05 and waht's the difference between ax and al? 13:00:50 oh 13:00:56 ax_is_zero would be a flag 13:03:13 ax = 16 bits 13:03:18 al and ah = 8 bits 13:03:23 al and ah together make ax 13:03:28 al = a low 13:03:30 ah = a high 13:09:49 ah 13:09:53 is there a bl too? 13:10:11 err, ax_is_zero would be a label 13:13:43 yes 13:13:45 and ch/cl 13:13:48 and dh/dl 13:13:58 but bp sp si and di are 16 bits only 13:14:04 the E means extended 13:14:08 Eax = 32 bits 13:14:31 Eax is high 16 bits with no name and low 16 bits = ax 13:17:41 --- join: johanrussouw (jrus@ndf-dial-196-30-124-2.mweb.co.za) joined #forth 13:30:41 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.26) joined #forth 13:34:00 hi edrx 13:35:03 hi johanrussouw! 13:35:08 how is it going? 13:35:59 My lua-based forth is working, but no docs or tgz yet... 13:37:32 do you know some disassembler that converts a binary file, or some asm dump, to a "C-ified" asm, like mov_eax_ebx(); goto l_00000123; ? 13:39:19 --- quit: johanrussouw (Bye All , my Webpage is http://junix.co.za , take care and God Bless) 14:15:15 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp83-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 14:15:58 hi fare 14:16:00 :) 14:16:31 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o clog 14:16:40 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o edrx 14:16:44 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o Fare 14:16:48 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o aaronl_ 14:17:21 I440r! 14:22:36 :) 14:22:39 home for weekend 14:22:45 fare go get tcn :P 14:40:21 --- quit: edrx (Ping timeout for edrx[200.240.18.26]) 14:40:35 --- join: edrx (edrx@arpoador-ttyS6.inx.com.br) joined #forth 14:46:27 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o I440r 15:27:19 --- quit: edrx ([x]chat) 15:27:55 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.26) joined #forth 15:39:04 --- quit: edrx ([x]chat) 16:35:24 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 16:35:24 --- log: stopped forth/01.03.10 16:35:40 --- log: started forth/01.03.10 16:35:40 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 16:35:40 --- names: list (clog @aaronl_ @I440r @Fare) 16:46:41 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o clog 16:51:53 where are clog's logs? 17:29:05 erm i dunno 17:46:48 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@216.25.202.214) joined #forth 17:46:48 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard 17:46:52 hiya all 17:48:35 tbw! 17:48:40 im just about to go out and eat :) 17:48:42 bbl :) 17:48:46 hiya I440r! 17:48:53 aww...k 18:00:54 --- quit: Fare (Connection reset by pear) 18:34:50 --- join: adu (root@adsl-63-201-89-27.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:35:12 hiya adu 18:35:16 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o adu 18:35:22 i knbow i'm dumb 18:35:31 huh? 18:35:32 howz everyone going? 18:35:41 oh....I see :) 18:35:55 nonono, i'm root... wrong window. sorry 18:36:07 * TheBlueWizard silently terrorizes adu :) 18:37:28 i'm in a big dev group now, and my forth ambitions have been decreasing 18:37:45 i only implemented about 20% of the pythonVM instructionsin forth 18:37:54 and i met a girl yesterday 18:37:57 dev group working for a company, eh? 18:38:18 no, its still oss 18:38:25 irc.worldforge.org 18:38:38 its a huge gaming project 18:38:50 ah...kewl 18:38:56 s/irc/www/ 18:39:00 saw about that on /. 18:39:05 ya 18:39:22 quite ambitious....good luck toi your effort 18:39:23 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@206-136.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth 18:39:26 and we're having another date tomorrow 18:39:29 :) 18:39:35 hiya Talia` 18:39:37 hello all =) 18:39:46 cheers bluewiz, how are you? 18:39:51 sounds like you got a girl, adu :) 18:40:02 Talia`: good....and you? 18:40:09 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o Talia` 18:40:21 thanks 18:40:24 I am fine, thank you 18:40:26 and yourself? 18:40:30 hehe :) ya, i'm feeling all wierd inside too... i stared at the ceiling for an unhealthy amount of time this morning.... 18:40:38 hehe 18:41:29 I440r! wusu[? 18:41:31 * TheBlueWizard gives adu a bottle of reality pills....just in case he needs it ;) 18:42:41 h3y 1 ju5+ r3m3mb3r3d my 3133+ 5(r1p+ 18:43:03 hehe 18:43:37 igtg to dinner now 18:43:40 bye 18:43:47 it was nice talking to you again 18:43:55 i'll try to drop by more often 18:43:58 --- quit: adu (IRCStep) 18:43:59 take care, adu =) 18:44:54 hello 18:45:08 cheers aaron, how are you? 18:45:35 been writing a mailing list program 18:45:39 (in c, don't tell I440r!) 18:46:12 hiya aaronl_...and lol re: not telling I440r that you're using C :) 18:47:02 neat aaron 18:51:01 heh 18:51:08 so what's up with you? 18:51:47 me? 18:51:54 not much. I am just going through the hardware and sysex documentation of this synthesizer I have made a project out of 18:52:00 bluewiz, too =) 18:53:14 heh....I am now working on interactive disassembler project....started out in Python with ncurses....may switch to C or C++ with ncurses...need to resolve a few technical issues though 18:54:55 that's neat! 18:56:06 thx :) 18:56:11 i386 disassembler? 18:58:59 the goal is to be able to disassemble anything, using plug-in CPU disassemblers 18:59:26 though for now I'm aiming for 6502 disassembly since it is pretty simple 19:00:18 haha 19:00:24 =) 19:00:42 (I am not going to support that MASM crap!) 19:00:58 what's it called? i saw a 6402 disassembler on freshmeat recently 19:01:56 6402? never heard of that CPU 19:02:03 typo =) 19:02:21 bah 19:02:25 6502 19:02:43 i've heard it's sluggish 19:02:54 as in it takes 45 minutes to assemble a simple program 19:04:30 oh, 6502 is pretty decent considering the limitations....it usually runs at 1 MHz, but the max clock cycle is 7 19:05:26 consider also the 6502 was by far the cheapest thing around when most people were considering a good solid processor to use 19:05:31 how does it compare to the z80? 19:05:50 the 68000, despite how great it was, was a bit more expensive than it should have been on a mass production model 19:06:03 for synthesizer work, it's probably better than the Z80, if I recall 19:06:05 :D 19:07:30 * TheBlueWizard doesn't know much about synthesizer, but he thinks 6502 and z80 are about equal....each has its strengths and weaknesses 19:12:58 well, I can tell you that I don't have much hardware design experience =) 19:13:15 but, it seems to me that the 6502 is better for real-time control or performance applications 19:15:08 studying the designs of a lot of hardware and also looking at the various documentation regarding the 6502's read and write cycle timing 19:15:12 this seems to confirm this 19:15:24 but, then again...I am sure a Z80 veteran could prove me wrong here =) 19:18:18 my Emulator II uses five Z80's in its design 19:18:26 I thought that was funny...but rather col 19:18:32 sounds reasonable since (a) 6502 typically runs at lower MHz speed than z80, and (b) all 6502 instructions takes from 2 to 7 cycles to complete. Both 6502 and z80 are predictable in their timing however (by that I mean you can depends on 6502 or z80 instruction to execute in definite cycles....even if the cycles vary due to branch taken or not) ... which makes it possible to tweak via coding the timings...since 6502 has tighter range of cycle times 19:19:15 yeah...(a) was always a problem with the 6502... 19:19:34 that's why I think Apple's idea of using a 10MHz version to handle the serial ports in the IIfx was a cool idea =) 19:21:30 that'd be cool....Western Digital is making, IIRC, 25MHz 65816s, which does emulate 6502 (or 65C02?) 19:21:47 neat 19:22:03 why are making those processors 19:22:10 any specific application or market in mind? 19:23:27 apple2 upgrades? ;-) 19:24:29 no idea what the market is, but I'm pretty sure it is embedded market (which is *huge*...bigger than PC/server/and-the-like market) 19:25:04 yeah, i recently heard about similar supercharged z80's 19:25:28 the compatability with previous generations is important when this embedded stuff is typically low-level 19:25:38 neat 19:25:50 use my Kaypro as a "development" computer 19:25:51 haha 19:25:52 =) 19:33:45 the /. reported that Zilog made a souped up z80 like chip, and claims it is geared for Internet....hmm :) 19:34:03 my Kaypro computer from 1984 is geared for the internet 19:34:27 give me a 1200 baud modem and a unix shell account, and I can do more on the internet than most people can on old pentium 19:34:34 on = on an 19:35:08 not that it tells anything about me, but it shows that internet capability *should* be all encompassing 19:35:31 and that it is the software that is holding us back as far as speed...and monopolies that hold back progress in faster connections 19:35:52 the souped up version has extra instructions that lets you implement TCP/IP stack more easily, and stuff (I never have written TCP/IP stack, so I can't evaluate the merits per se) 19:36:29 that does sound cool, though 19:36:54 although, I personally would be more interested in a design that handles networking code independent of the processor 19:37:09 you can search /. for that article, and then click through to www.zilog.com 19:37:12 so the main processor only has to chew on the application and maybe OS code if they didn't brand this off to another processor 19:37:19 let me find it 19:37:20 there is a white paper on it there 19:37:32 http://slashdot.org/articles/99/09/20/1626218.shtml 19:37:41 http://www.zilog.com/ez80/ 19:37:55 ez80 sounds right, yeah 19:40:39 why did they used to make computers with $.99 CPU's like the z80? or have the chips just devalued extrmemly while remaining profitable? 19:41:30 the latter I believe 19:41:33 I hope 19:41:34 =) 19:41:44 they used Z80's in Neo Geo's 19:41:56 which at the time was not a cheap console game system 19:42:12 I think gameboy uses one too 19:42:16 it does 19:42:21 add onto the long list of computers that use it 19:42:22 and it can be emulated on a PalmPilot :)_ 19:42:45 I'd like to know more about how the five Z80's were used in the Emulator II (which was a $8000 in 1984-1986) 19:42:49 haha 19:42:50 cool 19:43:04 DAMN 19:43:30 guess they didn't have practical DSP's back then? 19:44:18 erratum: I had said "Western Digital"...it should be "Western Design Center" (http://www.westerndesigncenter.com)...I located it from http://www.6502.org :) 19:44:48 yeah...I figure it was between the five Z80's, the 512K (or later the 1M) of RAM, and the DD 5.25 floppy drives in it that nailed the cost 19:45:01 theblue: cool, thanks 19:45:06 aaron: I guess nt 19:45:06 np :) 19:45:36 the shame about the Emulator II, like most nice proprietary designs, is that even to this day just about everything on the machine is locked away in some file cabinet 19:46:01 this synthesizer I am making a project has just about everything available on it...even the internal 68000 source code and the hardware schematics 19:46:26 kind of strange since the company that released this machine also is very very proprietary...so I think the designer sold his soul on this one 19:46:27 :P 19:47:03 it'd be cool to have an integrated CPU and RAM memory chip (on a single die), so it would be possible to build a tiny C-64 like computers :))) 19:47:39 yeah...maybe make them modular so you could piece them together like a bunch of legos =) 19:48:00 like Transputers? that'd be kewl 19:48:01 that sort of reminds me of the Forth chips Charles Moore likes to throw together 19:48:05 just not nearly as small =) 19:49:28 damn 19:49:40 a leading debian developer just quit VA 19:49:51 and another will only be able to work in his spare time 19:50:38 Is VA Linux in big trouble now, eh? 19:50:55 yes 19:55:12 shoot. 19:55:21 the first spam mail I received in five months on all three email accounts 19:55:21 :P 19:55:33 heh 19:55:41 they found me :P 19:55:54 well...at least on my three year old account 19:56:18 which I don't use anymore because it's unreliable as hell, but I keep since I registered a lot of products and sent a lot of correspondence with it 19:56:26 :P 19:57:21 one of the two I use for mailing lists only, since even with mail filters, waiting for 250 messages to download to see if I have any *important* mail is ridiculous 19:57:23 :P 19:57:32 call me stupid =) 19:58:27 heh 19:59:08 hah 19:59:20 I got another subscriber to my list on yahoogroups 19:59:27 that makes for a total of five, including myself 19:59:36 that's four more than I expected 20:00:08 what ml? 20:00:53 Kurzweil150 =) 20:01:18 speech synthesizer, eh? 20:01:24 it's specifically in regard to a synthesizer that has little to no existing support...and what does exist, is often incorrect 20:01:46 actually it is a 68000-based Fourier music synthesizer 20:02:15 uses an Apple II editor to voice the instrument 20:02:36 rather unique, but unfortunately a little unwieldy and also designed for audience that wouldn't come for another ten years 20:02:39 so, it was doomed =) 20:02:48 ah....thanks to proprietary nature, meaning having to hack it, reverse-engineer it, or just pour a noxious acid on the machine to see if a bone emerge :) 20:03:59 well, the cool thing about this instrument is that designer(s) released nearly all available documents for this machine 20:04:19 awesome 20:04:34 as well as a lot of other nifty extras to make internal software development possible on any machine with a suitable 68000 assembler and linker 20:04:38 and maybe a parallel port =) 20:04:39 oh...that's nice! 20:04:49 yeah, I thought so 20:05:12 it has a lot of really great ideas and the documentation to back it up...and no one took advantage of it 20:05:21 so I am toying with it now to see what I can do with it 20:05:52 the 680x0 disassembler will be planned for my disassembler project in the future....since I have a good bunch of Amiga proggies :))) 20:06:08 yay! 20:06:12 if I am lucky, and able to purchase more of these units from the designer, as well as fix my current unit...I am looking into doing a complete rewrite of the original voicing editor for the Macintosh or Unix (the original was done for the Apple II) 20:06:20 that would be cool 20:06:47 the very strange thing about the Kurzweil 150, is that it has 240 separate oscillators to handle each sine or noise partial in the sound 20:06:52 * TheBlueWizard nods 20:07:04 since they are bonafide oscillators, and not "software"...it's a little strange 20:07:11 whoah 20:07:35 aaronl_: are you yaying re: my plan for 680x0 disassembly engine (it'd be, like 6 months down the road...) 20:07:47 yes 20:07:51 one of the other projects I'd like to look into, is perhaps getting the documentation detailing the schematics of the parallel "testing" socket to tie directly into the machine and the processor 20:08:05 * TheBlueWizard hmms....isn't aware aaronl_ is so interested.... 20:08:06 and maybe using something like SwiftX to rewrite parts of the operating system 20:08:19 i am, 20:08:36 theblue: what platforms are you writing your disassembler for? 20:09:07 (Debian) Linux platform... 20:09:28 tha would be slick 20:09:50 since it will use ncurses (since I didn't install X Windows...I will wait until woody goes stable, then install it :) 20:09:59 lol 20:10:33 tbw! 20:10:36 ur still here :) 20:10:36 slick? why? I pick it since it has free compiler, make utility, etc etc etc etc etc etc, you get the idea.... 20:10:38 hi ppl :) 20:10:39 for the k150, I'd like to write the preliminary code to be as portable as possible on as many machines as possible...I figured since just about every machine had a normal RS-232 compatibleport....writing the k150 editor to use a simple homebrew parallel port MIDI interface you could buy from normal parts would be a sound idea 20:10:46 hiya I440r! 20:11:04 just got back from phood :) 20:11:08 I440r: I'm getting sleepy....hehe 20:11:10 blue: no, it's just neat 20:11:12 rack of ribbz!!!! 20:11:21 tbw me too hehe 20:11:25 it just seems to be a platform that would be great to have a disassembler around for 20:11:32 i drove 29784653745937468523784652934 miles yesterday and got in at 3 am :P 20:11:40 ill be going back tomorrow hehe 20:11:40 and not too many in abundance for it 20:11:52 has tcn been arround ? 20:11:53 hey i4, how are you? 20:12:00 im doing fine :) 20:12:03 need coffee tho :) 20:12:05 excellent =) 20:12:17 haha...I have successfully moved back to my old schedule 20:12:22 wb I440r 20:12:48 before, I was waking up at 9pm and waking up in the middle of the morning 20:13:12 then get tired, and take a cat nap for a few hours between 9am to 11:30pm or so 20:13:17 it really sucked 20:13:32 wow 20:14:07 Talia`: yeah....I looked at Frestmeat.net, and noticed only two major-ish projects and decided they aren't quite what I'm looking for....Sourceforge has a number of disassemblers around, but they look rather lame, at least from the description....I just want an *interactive* disassembler, so I decide: why not just start itching that Raymond's spot? :) 20:14:29 TheBlueWizard: Go ahead! I want a good disassembler too! 20:14:36 the other thing i want is a good hex editor 20:14:44 theblue: I think you're right 20:14:45 go for it 20:15:09 Unix has the potential to be an ultimate developer's environment, like it was originally intended (before they got this silly "security" idea in their head) 20:15:16 aaronl_: I believe there are good hex editors already...like biew 20:15:21 but, unfortunately, it hasn't fulfilled its potential despite thirty years in operastion =) 20:15:23 biew is .. weird 20:17:16 Talia`: well, security is quite important, believe me....the problem with commercial *NIX is that they segmentize their products for marketing purpose....that is *dumb*....Linux doesn't care about the "market"....that's what makes it rawx! :) 20:17:42 * TheBlueWizard never have used biew 20:17:56 well, no...I mean they got this idea awhile back that unix was good for "security" 20:18:06 hmmm coffee 20:18:09 hmmmm JD!!! 20:18:10 (I think the login screen made most secretaries scream, so they figured it was good for that...) 20:18:43 so, it basically deviated from the original idea that it was a shared development "community" 20:19:00 Talia`: ah...I get it....yeah...especially when you consider that M$ products are notoriously insecure....*NIX vendors need a selling point... 20:19:25 well, even before Unix 20:19:36 back when Bell Labs was still a name for itself 20:20:01 what's wrong with security? 20:20:14 back then computers were big 20:20:17 so they were shared 20:20:18 yeah...coding as a communitarian entity....I grok that :) 20:20:19 nothing...but it detracted from the premise that Unix was to be an ultimate computing environment 20:20:22 and you want security on shared machines 20:20:27 ah 20:20:31 for developers 20:20:40 not for maintaining security =) 20:21:15 to be honest, I am surprised it hasn't moved more towards keeping things secure then it has 20:21:18 but, still 20:21:46 if you ask me...the idea of a "development" computer is beginning to apply for even for the common everyday PC or other consumer computer 20:21:55 but it'd be *nice* to have both security and development tools in one place...I myself am building up security toolkit, mostly for self-education and for career moves :) 20:22:02 the interface really does get in the way when you finally decide to do something useful, in my opinion 20:22:33 bluewiz: agreed, but considering the potential of Unix for being a great development environment, it lacks an awful lot in conventional utilities 20:22:44 but, maybe that's just a difference in philosophy 20:23:12 since, I nod more towards the CP/M idea of the OS catering to the programmer as well as the user 20:23:22 which, is a little far-fetched in a more complex system I suppose 20:23:42 true, at least in some area....however the *NIX philosophy is that we don't need monolithic apps, just a bunch of little tools.... 20:24:41 right 20:24:43 CP/M as well 20:24:44 e.g. no momolithic email system....just pieces such as exim, procmail, etc.... 20:25:02 whichis basically a slim-lined Unix, now that I think of it 20:25:46 well 20:25:57 for real "microcomputers" 20:26:00 in a way, yeah...unfortunately we do have a number of big apps like xemacs, bash, ... :) 20:26:03 somethign like linux in single user mode makes an OK development machine in your sense 20:26:05 when they were claled microcomputers =) 20:26:19 but i'm not sure how security hurts other than in philosophy 20:26:23 that's the price to pay for power and flexibility :/ 20:26:27 no, don't get me wrong 20:26:30 security isn't an issue 20:26:49 I am just saying it distracted people from the potential of unix to do things other than handle servers and keep things "safe" 20:27:10 ah 20:27:18 that became more of a hallmark of the system, than the fact that it would make an outstanding development platform for sharing source and other things between many people 20:27:18 well, i use it on my workstation *shrug* 20:27:25 right 20:27:36 well, it's only recently that security mindset began to change with the general public 20:27:38 is all I am saying =) 20:30:22 one of the things I really get a kick out of, is you have some innovation or other neat idea or principle...but due to it being far-sighted doesn't catch on 20:30:51 twenty to fifty years later, people all rediscover it again...except it becomes catchy and trendy...and they act like they invented it 20:30:54 it's kind of cute 20:31:12 you can see that kind of thing literally littering the computer and electronic/computer music industries 20:31:25 hahah 20:32:11 speaking of music, when you make some please don't be selfish 20:32:18 the riaa stuff is so awful 20:32:20 yeah....very true....but what irks me is that the those so-called inventors are already patenting/copyrighting/whatever these stuff 20:32:36 blue: right! exactly 20:32:40 aaron: riass? 20:33:19 is that the new "indian" rooted stuff they are trying to force down the throats of people with sensible tastes? (no offense to anyone here who likes it) 20:33:32 * TheBlueWizard builds a human-sized blender, patents it (claiming it is tough to build it this big), and shove RIAA and MPAA people into the blender...one by one :) 20:33:41 haha 20:33:54 when you *finally* run out of those people 20:34:01 thenyou can move onto trying various household objects 20:34:11 and school administrators! 20:34:15 a great way to fill an afternoon with entertaining fun 20:34:18 haha 20:34:54 oh, I have plenty more people to puree, like M$ ppl, Apple, Sun, ..... the list can go on forever! (sadistic grin) 20:34:55 "No! I don't think that's appropriate!"..."You...you're next!"..."Don't make me call your parents!"... 20:35:12 haha 20:35:17 an axe to grind with everyone, eh? 20:35:27 * Talia` highfives BlueWiz 20:35:44 oh yes, pretty much half the world, I guess :)))) 20:36:11 --- nick: TheBlueWizard -> TheBlenderWizard 20:36:18 :) 20:36:48 just half? =) 20:37:01 I'm guessing ok? 20:37:09 :) 20:37:13 :D 20:39:27 actually I do have elaborate fantasies about how to, um, "fix" some of the more odious people, like Steve Ballmer....sorry if my imagination gets too graphic for yor liking ;) 20:39:52 s/yor/your/ 20:41:32 haha 20:41:47 well, the thing is, I don't honestly know if I am actually any better than the people I bitch left and right about 20:42:01 so, I can't get too carried away without getting the nagging feeling that I am one of "them" 20:42:08 hah...speaking of, that was a funny movie 20:42:11 I will have to see that 20:42:35 despite that it eludes me that in a rather educated decade such as the 50's, when the movie was created...why it called "them", and not the grammatically correct "they" 20:42:40 =) 20:42:50 why it called = why it was called 20:43:00 it also eludes me why I randomly leave out words in my sentences 20:43:42 'cuz "it's them", not "it's they"...the latter is technically correct...but would you say the latter? now you see! :)))) 20:45:41 --- nick: TheBlenderWizard -> TheBlueWizard 20:45:59 yeah 20:46:00 I know 20:46:05