00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.02.16
01:30:34 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp16-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth
02:12:24 --- quit: adu (BitchX-75p1 -- just do it.)
02:36:13 --- part: Talia` left #forth
03:07:57 --- quit: Fare (Ping timeout for Fare[ppp16-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net])
05:05:30 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp16-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth
06:50:13 --- join: demoncrat (darius@shell.accesscom.com) joined #forth
08:45:14 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth
08:45:27 <I440r> fare tell tcn i need him to email me his latest isforth sources
08:45:32 <I440r> ive been waiting grrr :P
08:45:45 <I440r> i gtg... work dont like me here
08:45:46 <I440r> :)
08:45:58 --- quit: I440r (argh ni irc for me!)
10:43:36 --- quit: demoncrat (Leaving)
13:53:09 --- join: JohanRussouw (JRussouw@cisap5-d-130.pop.co.za) joined #forth
13:53:32 <JohanRussouw> hi Fare
13:55:38 <Fare> hi
14:11:03 <JohanRussouw> how r u?
14:11:26 <JohanRussouw> sorry i took 9 min to answer
14:11:31 <JohanRussouw> Fare i am back
14:12:32 <Fare> hi
14:12:40 <Fare> just got my Lisp Machine today
14:12:49 <Fare> installing it
15:06:53 <JohanRussouw> what is that?
15:07:06 <JohanRussouw> Fare  a Lisp machine ?
15:07:43 <Fare> http://fare.tunes.org/LispM.html
15:07:54 <JohanRussouw> specs or website or anyhting , is it hardware or software , i deduced hardwarfe
15:08:12 <JohanRussouw> i am going there
15:08:22 <JohanRussouw> is that your site
15:09:12 <Fare> yup
15:15:54 <JohanRussouw> i have read that page at high speed (really mean low retention)
15:16:05 <JohanRussouw> i like the idea
15:16:13 <JohanRussouw> of a lisp machine
15:16:22 <JohanRussouw> but i do not have the money
15:17:24 <JohanRussouw> i would like to ask u questions or discuss my ideas fro contributing to word of computers but that will take time whcih most people do not have
15:17:27 <JohanRussouw> Fare
15:17:43 <JohanRussouw> btw i cannot spell
15:17:55 <JohanRussouw> i am gonna read the rest of your site
15:18:08 <JohanRussouw> and maybe if u do not answer follow some links
15:18:23 <JohanRussouw> which is always a good idea right
15:22:26 <Fare> sorry, I'm busy on lots of windows, only have little attention on this one
15:36:49 <JohanRussouw> no problem i just read your page again from the start , which links so i follow to get a usefull feel of what u have ,  i think i have this card u talked about etc , is it working whats the status , r u having problems , how i can i help , i think the best thing i can do to help u is to keep quiet and not bother u and go away peacefully , i have beeb a programmer for 20 years and my first real experience was on forth , and i still love it 
15:39:43 <JohanRussouw> i never had any real experince with lisp , although i wrote a caclculus teaching program in muLisp and muMath and it was very good but i never could get that software again so its all lost to me and so many things take up my time that i do not have time for playing with anthing new and out of the ordinary which requires first of all money of which i have very little and secondly time which is also in short supply so u take and care and god bles
15:40:49 <Fare> RPN was my discovery of a high-level FORTH
15:40:52 <Fare> I still love RPN
15:41:01 <Fare> a RPL
15:41:02 <JohanRussouw> and god bless u and if u do not believe in god , then i hope your computer system my be kind to you and give u all the pleasure and co operation
15:41:06 <Fare> I mean HP28 RPL
15:41:35 <JohanRussouw> yes and ty for answering my questions
15:41:49 <JohanRussouw> i had a hp48 also 
15:43:52 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-90-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth
15:44:02 <JohanRussouw> i  bought a texas ti59 3 weeks before the hp41 (error o meant hp41) was released , i was so upset cause i could not afford to buy the hp41 after spending all my money on the ti59 , i was in the army (compulsory defence force callup very low pay almost not existent
15:44:09 <adu> hi all
15:44:24 <JohanRussouw> hello adu , i am having a one side conversration with Fare
15:44:48 <adu> really?
15:44:52 <adu> he's not listening?
15:44:59 <adu> or he's not responding? or do you know?
15:45:21 <JohanRussouw> he is insatlling his LispM machine and have many windows open (He say -- i do not believe him at all
15:45:31 <adu> you wouldn't know how to retrieve a variable's value in forth would you?
15:45:49 <JohanRussouw> yes of course i know
15:45:52 <adu> "70 variable dude ... dude @" doesn't work
15:45:54 <JohanRussouw> with @
15:46:03 <JohanRussouw> why not
15:46:12 <JohanRussouw> what does it say
15:46:23 <JohanRussouw> it should work
15:46:28 <adu> because it putsit puts a xero on the stack
15:46:59 <JohanRussouw> o maybe the variable declaration does not store a value
15:47:24 <JohanRussouw> try 70 variable dude 70 dude ! dude @ ,
15:47:29 <JohanRussouw> @ . i mean
15:47:42 <adu> maybe i should just do "variable dude ... 70 dude !" then
15:47:56 <adu> ya
15:48:12 <JohanRussouw> because if i am  not mistaken my old forth variable did not take anyhting on the stack
15:48:19 <adu> YEY!
15:48:21 <JohanRussouw> check your documentation
15:48:21 <adu> it worked
15:48:36 <adu> thanx
15:48:42 <JohanRussouw> u r very silly i am laughing  my head off at u
15:48:47 <adu> hahaha
15:48:57 <JohanRussouw> now u have to stay and talk to me 4 10 min
15:49:13 <adu> you wanna know what i'm doing?
15:49:22 <adu> :)
15:49:23 <JohanRussouw> otherwise other things are also gonna stop working 
15:49:33 <adu> like what?
15:49:37 <JohanRussouw> of course silly i would why else would i be here
15:49:54 <adu> ok i'll tell you
15:49:55 <adu> i'm trying to implement the python VM in forth
15:50:08 <adu> which is actually not turning out that bad
15:50:15 <JohanRussouw> well maybe u will say 10 constant ten and when u type ten it will put 0 on the stack
15:50:18 <adu> my first word i'm working on is exec-pyc
15:50:26 <adu> it just executes a single pyc instruction
15:50:32 <adu> liie execute
15:50:36 <adu> like
15:50:46 <JohanRussouw> yes i c u are very very silly
15:51:03 <adu> because i would ever want to do something like that?
15:51:16 <JohanRussouw> i am onlu kidding
15:51:20 <adu> o ok
15:51:37 <JohanRussouw> only
15:51:40 <adu> its turning out pretty damn easy, but then again i haven't tested it yet
15:51:43 <adu> :{
15:51:50 <JohanRussouw> i do not know python at all
15:52:02 <JohanRussouw> i wanna learn it
15:52:10 <JohanRussouw> but do not have a book
15:52:20 <JohanRussouw> i lyke to learn from books
15:52:34 <adu> you don't really haveto it's VM is stack oriented, and has a few instructions for loading files and such, but nothing that can't be implemented in forth i beleive
15:52:46 <adu> books are nice
15:52:50 <JohanRussouw> and they are to expensive i cannot afford them and lyke i said i cannot type either
15:53:21 <JohanRussouw> yes they are warm and cuddly and make nice noises when u stroke them sure they are nice
15:53:30 <adu> i think python is what a language should be: SIMPLE
15:53:48 <adu> hahahahaha
15:53:53 <adu> how old are you?
15:54:16 <JohanRussouw> btw i apolize 2 u
15:54:40 <adu> huh?
15:54:46 <JohanRussouw> i am 5 10 + 15 - 39 + .
15:54:49 <adu> for what?
15:54:54 <JohanRussouw> i misread your statement
15:55:09 <JohanRussouw> i though u wanna do a forth in pyhton
15:55:13 <adu> what statement?
15:55:21 <adu> oic
15:55:36 <JohanRussouw> and u wanna do python in forth
15:55:42 <adu> ya i want to implement python VM in forth
15:55:48 <JohanRussouw> btw i wanna do all langauges in forth
15:56:31 <adu> you see before it executes python scripts it compiles them into an intermediate format .pyc sometimes it stores files too that way, and it uses the python VM's instructions to do that
15:57:09 <JohanRussouw> but i wanna write a program  that will analize the program code and source and defines me a like super langauge of the the cpu
15:57:28 <JohanRussouw> like whats going at transmeta and linus etc
15:57:42 <adu> 15 - 15 + 39?
15:57:54 <JohanRussouw> yes 39
15:58:04 <adu> ic
15:58:05 <JohanRussouw> just playing a forth game
15:58:18 <adu> ya
15:58:31 <JohanRussouw> i am like 39-15 years emotional and socially
15:58:49 <JohanRussouw> thats why i have so little money 
15:58:55 <adu> i'm trying to implement an easy to access language combo so that forth can generate its own code.
15:59:10 <JohanRussouw> and i lost 10 years to mental illness
15:59:17 <adu> and i don't want it to generate forth code, thats too dangerous
15:59:22 <adu> ouch
15:59:44 <JohanRussouw> explain 2 y dangerous
15:59:48 <JohanRussouw> 2 me
16:00:12 <JohanRussouw> adu age?
16:00:33 <adu> 18
16:00:50 <JohanRussouw> o i c that good 4 u and bad 4 me
16:01:01 <JohanRussouw> u have life ahead of u
16:01:01 <adu> because i want it to generate it it a way that it doesn't know anything about it in the beginning.
16:01:33 <adu> i'm trying to create primitive AI, and i think Lisp is a bunch of crap
16:01:36 <JohanRussouw> bad 4 me because we have programmers generation gap
16:01:54 <adu> o well, we might be able to talk about some things
16:02:28 <adu> i've covered an unbeleivable about of ground over the past year
16:02:44 <JohanRussouw> yes i am more flexable then u , because i am older , i will adapt 2 u and assist u to get to know u better etc etc
16:02:47 <adu> i got Linux Feb 2000, and that changed alot :)
16:03:10 <JohanRussouw> yes i have only one question for u 
16:03:14 <adu> what?
16:03:36 <JohanRussouw> how r u gonna support yourself fancially
16:03:45 <JohanRussouw> i cannot spell
16:03:45 <adu> i don't know that yet
16:03:57 <JohanRussouw> r u still at home
16:04:00 <adu> ya
16:04:05 <JohanRussouw> u must be if u 18
16:04:09 <adu> i'm in college now
16:04:19 <JohanRussouw> r u married or planning on getting married soon
16:04:20 <adu> when i'm out of college i'll decide
16:04:25 <adu> not at all
16:04:26 <JohanRussouw> what r u studying
16:04:43 <adu> i'm taking prereq courses at a community college
16:04:49 <adu> not really studying anything
16:04:56 <adu> all the courses i'm taking i already know
16:05:09 <adu> math/eng/cis/music
16:05:24 <adu> the music is an intermediate piano couse, and i've been playing piano for 10 years
16:05:51 <JohanRussouw> do u have girlfriend or planning u have one soon
16:05:55 <adu> CIS is a INTROductory computer science course and we're learning how to use QBasic
16:06:08 <adu> i STARTED programming QBasic when i was 8 years old
16:06:21 <JohanRussouw> yes r u planning on getting a degree 
16:06:23 <Fare> Johan: so you don't believe me?
16:06:28 <JohanRussouw> if so in what?
16:06:29 <Fare> adu: how is LISP "crap" ?
16:06:33 <adu> i have lots of girls, just not sure if any are my "Girlfriend"
16:06:37 <JohanRussouw> of course i believe u
16:06:52 <adu> honest
16:06:52 <JohanRussouw> Fare he is young  he does not know Lisp
16:07:09 <JohanRussouw> he had no-one to show him the power of it
16:07:30 <adu> lisp just seems to big
16:08:13 <adu> the parentheses don't really bother be
16:08:21 <JohanRussouw> yes u r right about that adu but its a very good designed language
16:08:33 <adu> yes i like its design
16:08:57 <adu> but i don't think its right for the intentions i have in mind
16:09:16 <JohanRussouw> so do not scorn the langauge or its users , just state what u do not like about it 
16:09:23 <adu> sorry
16:09:28 <adu> i had to think about it for awhile
16:09:50 <JohanRussouw> no is ok i am not offended i normally offend people
16:09:59 <adu> hehe
16:10:06 <JohanRussouw> k u wanna write a AI program right
16:10:11 <adu> you see i'm trying to create a very simple mimicing machine
16:10:13 <JohanRussouw> so did i since 1982
16:10:22 <adu> thats when i was born
16:10:31 <adu> not AI per se
16:10:45 <JohanRussouw> but i could not afford the hardware 
16:10:50 <adu> just something that will try to duplicate the results that it gets as imput
16:11:13 <JohanRussouw> and when i got univesarity to get the hardware
16:11:26 <JohanRussouw> i was to busy with like u said a lot of crap
16:11:31 <adu> ic
16:11:35 <Fare> JR: 1982?
16:11:37 <Fare> wow
16:11:46 <JohanRussouw> yes i am 39
16:11:57 <Fare> although my first contact with a machine was around 1982, too (Apple ][)
16:12:05 <JohanRussouw> i was at varsity from 1981-1985
16:12:18 <adu> my first contact was when i was 6 i think
16:12:29 <adu> we got a 286
16:12:32 <JohanRussouw> my first contact was a pocket calculator
16:12:32 <adu> :)
16:12:55 <JohanRussouw> then it was ti59 programmable calculator
16:12:58 <Fare> my dad bought the HP41C, but I was too young to understand anything about it
16:13:01 <JohanRussouw> then a sharp basic
16:13:10 <Fare> my dad loved all these gadgets
16:13:18 <JohanRussouw> then big jump ibm370 mainframe
16:15:44 <JohanRussouw> did u people go priv chat or am in talking to myself
16:16:05 <adu> hmm
16:16:09 <adu>  not sure
16:19:50 --- join: Echap (t@ANeuilly-101-2-1-82.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth
16:20:04 --- part: Echap left #forth
16:20:19 <JohanRussouw> r u not sure wheter i am talking to myself
16:20:20 <Fare> 370? what did you program with
16:20:49 <JohanRussouw> r u sure u are here
16:21:22 <JohanRussouw> in pl/1 fortran pascal and later asm370
16:21:50 <JohanRussouw> started with the batch langauge
16:21:59 <JohanRussouw> then pl/i took a course
16:22:07 <JohanRussouw> then fortran took a course
16:22:29 <JohanRussouw> then pirated a pascal compiler onto it
16:23:04 <JohanRussouw> then write a dis-assembler for the ibm370 
16:23:54 <JohanRussouw> and successfully disas- re-assembled the flist program , which i like norton commander or mifnight commander or windows commander
16:24:30 <adu> interesting
16:25:17 <adu> i like bz2 much better
16:25:23 <adu> sorry, wong window
16:32:32 <JohanRussouw> what percisely is bz2 as far as i know bz2 is a compression standard and has nothing to do with file manager or the like or them etc
16:32:43 <JohanRussouw> o sorry i c the sorry
16:33:28 <JohanRussouw> Fare u still here looking in and looking out
16:34:09 <Fare> yes, but not very active
16:35:24 <JohanRussouw> i know that
16:38:46 <JohanRussouw> is okay when can we have a meaningfull conversation or tell me if that smalltalk whatever system i read about is any good or is it gonna give me bad taste in my mouth and totally made me forget the joyi had messing with smalltalk 286 on floppy before reality checked in and i had to start working on the robotic projects that was critical and doing my studies so that  i could get my degree etc
16:39:13 <JohanRussouw> so i am going back to your page to get the link to that smalltalk thingy
16:44:16 <adu> i like smalltalk
16:49:56 <JohanRussouw> me 2
16:55:29 <JohanRussouw> Fare i am downloading that squesk smalltalk 
16:56:39 <adu> i want to leave
16:56:49 <adu> squeak is awsome
16:56:56 <adu> it has its own desktop
16:57:00 <adu> very cool
16:57:32 <adu> hey
16:57:43 <adu> ok i have the exec in a series of these:
16:57:58 <adu> tell me if this looks ok, its within a case...endcase
16:58:00 <adu> 	dup py#sub   = of drop py-sub endof
16:58:00 <adu> \	dup py#subi  = of drop py-sub endof
16:58:00 <adu> 	dup py#swap  = of drop swap endof
16:58:00 <adu> \	dup py#xor   = of drop xor endof
16:58:00 <adu> \	dup py#xori  = of drop xor endof
16:59:03 <adu> ?
16:59:05 <adu> hello?
17:02:16 <JohanRussouw> yes i am here
17:02:37 <adu> "<adu> tell me if this looks ok"
17:03:01 <JohanRussouw> i have not used case statement in forth very long time ago anf this looks okay
17:03:08 <JohanRussouw> test it
17:03:10 <adu> alright
17:03:15 <adu> i'm afraid to
17:03:15 <JohanRussouw> that the beauty of forth
17:03:26 <adu> what is?
17:03:30 <adu> testing?
17:03:38 <JohanRussouw> u do not compile link edit
17:03:41 <adu> :)
17:03:47 <adu> yes
17:03:53 <adu> k
17:03:54 <JohanRussouw> yes u test and write at same time
17:04:03 <adu> i've never actually loaded from a file in forth
17:04:21 <adu> is it like load filename.fth?
17:04:24 <JohanRussouw> so its not that easy
17:04:47 <adu> how?
17:04:52 <JohanRussouw> depends on the distro / version etc
17:05:04 <JohanRussouw> what r u using
17:05:17 <JohanRussouw> r u on linux or windows
17:05:24 <JohanRussouw> etc
17:05:31 <JohanRussouw> which forth etc
17:05:53 <adu> theres an extention set called filefind/fth
17:06:00 <adu> pForth
17:06:07 <adu> on Macintosh
17:06:20 <JohanRussouw> i c
17:06:30 <JohanRussouw> i have never used pforth
17:06:38 <adu> file-position
17:06:38 <adu> file-size
17:06:38 <adu> file?				<filefind.fth>
17:06:38 <adu> fill
17:06:38 <adu> find
17:06:39 <adu> find&compile			<quit.fth>
17:06:39 <JohanRussouw> so i have no clue
17:06:41 <adu> find.body			<member.fth>
17:06:43 <adu> findnfa
17:06:45 <adu> findnfa.from			<filefind.fth>
17:06:49 <adu> any of these words looke like a loader?
17:06:55 <JohanRussouw> the most elemteray docs will tell how
17:07:01 <adu> ok
17:07:09 <adu> i could only find the README
17:07:14 <adu> i'll look some more i guess
17:07:22 <JohanRussouw> try load
17:07:28 <JohanRussouw> look for load
17:07:47 <adu> loadsys?
17:08:06 <JohanRussouw> no
17:08:12 <JohanRussouw> something like load
17:08:29 <JohanRussouw> can u do a vlist or words or some such
17:08:46 <JohanRussouw> that tells u which words is in vocab
17:15:45 <adu> 'include' thats it
17:16:21 <adu> i'll put some sample values on the stack and then play around with it
17:18:32 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@216.25.205.176) joined #forth
17:18:33 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard
17:18:39 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
17:19:04 <JohanRussouw> hi TheBlueWizard how r u
17:19:26 <TheBlueWizard> pretty good...you?
17:19:39 <JohanRussouw> also good
17:19:46 <JohanRussouw> whats up with u
17:19:59 <JohanRussouw> Fare got his lispM amchine
17:20:04 <JohanRussouw> machine
17:20:12 <JohanRussouw> he is like ignore me
17:20:24 <TheBlueWizard> at the moment, relaxin', chattin', reading emails, reading /. postings :)
17:20:51 <JohanRussouw> adu is writing a python interpreter also ignoring me now
17:20:54 * Fare has got one CRT to share between the lispm and the linux box
17:21:23 <TheBlueWizard> sounds n34t
17:21:47 <adu> wierd
17:21:48 <JohanRussouw> tell me who was the one with the dope (weed whatever) the other night when i was here
17:21:51 <adu> it does nothing
17:21:57 <adu> isn't it supposed to do SOMETHING?
17:22:21 <JohanRussouw> like what adu
17:22:48 <adu> i'm not ignoring tou
17:22:58 <adu> i think my case is setup wrong
17:23:04 * Fare switches back to the LispM
17:23:07 <JohanRussouw> does pforth have a debugger
17:23:11 --- nick: Fare -> FareAwayLispM
17:23:18 <JohanRussouw> yes it is most properly
17:23:36 <JohanRussouw> i do not have pforth on my machine
17:23:51 <adu> : exec-pyc ( [arg] op -- [arg] )
17:23:51 <adu> case
17:23:51 <adu> 	dup py#and   = of drop and endof
17:23:51 <adu> 	dup py#andi  = of drop and endof
17:23:51 <adu> ...
17:23:52 <adu> endcase ;
17:24:00 <adu> and the constants work fine
17:24:13 <adu> py#and puts 0x40 on the stack
17:24:28 <JohanRussouw> u know silly u have design error
17:24:40 <adu> no errors
17:24:45 <adu> it just didn't do anything
17:25:00 <adu> johan what design errors?
17:25:02 <JohanRussouw> u now what a logical error is
17:25:08 <adu> no
17:25:13 <JohanRussouw> a design flaw
17:25:24 <adu> how could it be better?
17:25:49 <JohanRussouw> give the whole code again
17:25:58 <JohanRussouw> or i will scroll up
17:26:45 <adu> i'm trying to make it do this ( arg arg op -- ret )
17:27:02 <adu> for most of the binary operators
17:27:12 <JohanRussouw> ok one thing do u realise whats on top of the stack when u do the operation
17:27:29 <JohanRussouw> what u should do is this
17:27:30 <adu> yes, the python operator
17:27:57 <JohanRussouw> look at it step by step
17:28:18 <adu> tbw: am i doing the cases right?
17:28:25 <JohanRussouw> 11 12 <dup-op>   dup
17:29:05 <JohanRussouw> u have to take the operator of the stack after the 
17:29:05 <adu> 7 14 py#and exec-pyc
17:29:09 <JohanRussouw> check
17:29:13 <adu> should make 6
17:29:31 <JohanRussouw> do this
17:29:34 <adu> i did
17:29:55 <adu> dup py#and   = of drop and endof thats what the "drop" is for
17:30:13 <adu> dup py#and   = of DROP and endof
17:30:25 <adu> maybe
17:30:30 <adu> maybe i'm stupid
17:30:34 <adu> no no no
17:30:37 <JohanRussouw> ok take the dup away
17:30:40 <adu> that wouldn't work
17:30:51 <JohanRussouw> and also the drop
17:30:54 <adu> but won't that leave no value for the other comparisons?
17:31:04 <JohanRussouw> as case handle that auto
17:31:11 <adu> really?
17:31:13 <adu> o
17:31:25 <JohanRussouw> and case does not work on a boolean
17:31:36 <JohanRussouw> it works of a single value
17:31:39 <adu> only =?
17:31:53 <JohanRussouw> so your code should look like this perhaps
17:31:54 <adu> so do i haveto have a value at the top before case?
17:32:13 <adu> i haven't been able to find much documentation on case..endcase
17:32:29 <adu> case
17:32:29 <adu> 	py#and   = of and endof
17:32:29 <adu> ...
17:32:29 <adu> endcase
17:32:32 <adu> maybe?
17:32:32 <TheBlueWizard> try search on "Eaker case" in Google
17:32:38 <adu> ok
17:32:43 <JohanRussouw> : eee case dup_x of dup endof and_f of and enof
17:33:20 <JohanRussouw> u see case take care of the stack for u
17:33:36 <TheBlueWizard> I think I have some Eaker case code floating somewhere in my vast universe :)
17:33:44 <JohanRussouw> u should read the docs for the case statement in pforth
17:34:08 <adu> ooooo nice
17:34:54 <adu> : CASE ?COMP CSP @ !CSP 4 ; IMMEDIATE
17:34:54 <adu> : OF 4 ?PAIRS COMPILE OVER COMPILE = COMPILE OBRANCH HERE 0 ,   COMPILE DROP  5 ; IMMEDIATE
17:34:54 <adu> : ENDOF 5 ?PAIRS COMPILE BRANCH HERE 0 , SWAP 2 [COMPILE] ENDIF 4 ; IMMEDIATE
17:34:54 <adu> : ENDCASE 4 ?PAIRS COMPILE DROP BEGIN SP@ CSP @ = 0= WHILE 2 [COMPILE ENDIF REPEAT CSP ! ; IMMEDIATE
17:35:18 <TheBlueWizard> that does look like Eaker code alright!
17:35:48 <adu> its hard to read
17:35:53 <adu> i like lowercase forth
17:36:10 <TheBlueWizard> heh
17:36:39 <adu> good thing my text editor has a nifty change-case feature
17:37:45 <TheBlueWizard> um...so you're trying to understand how the case....end-case syntax should be?
17:38:01 <adu> ya
17:38:09 <adu> whould i put a variable before case?
17:38:14 <adu> or does it work on the stack?
17:39:05 <TheBlueWizard> ah...ok....I'm recalling...(mental gears a-whirring...)
17:40:03 --- quit: FareAwayLispM (Connection reset by pear)
17:40:18 * adu 's ears start vibrating
17:40:30 <adu> whir-whir-whir
17:40:43 <JohanRussouw> do this like i told u
17:40:49 <adu> ok i'l try
17:41:19 <JohanRussouw> : eeee case token of axtion endof
17:41:26 <JohanRussouw> etc etc
17:41:29 <JohanRussouw> endcase
17:42:03 <JohanRussouw> because any decent case should take care of stack for u
17:42:06 <adu> YEY!
17:42:09 <adu> it worked
17:42:17 <adu> dude that was cool
17:42:23 <JohanRussouw> so i not so stupid
17:42:42 <JohanRussouw> i have only done this like 10 years ago
17:42:47 <adu> 9 14 7
17:42:48 <adu>    ok
17:42:48 <adu> Stack<10> 9 14 7 
17:42:48 <adu> py#and exec-pyc
17:42:48 <adu>    ok
17:42:48 <adu> Stack<10> 9 6 
17:43:10 <adu> :)
17:43:36 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth
17:43:42 <adu> hey aaronl
17:43:55 <JohanRussouw> hi aaronl
17:44:03 <adu> JohanRussouw: thanx
17:44:27 <JohanRussouw> u remember asking me to write a high level find
17:44:38 <JohanRussouw> well i did long ago
17:44:56 <JohanRussouw> and i left the book at work when i saw u again
17:45:22 <JohanRussouw> so when u deem 2 talk 2 lowly mortals like us i might tell u
17:45:30 <JohanRussouw> lol jk
17:45:46 <adu> aaronl: you wouldn't beleive how happy i am
17:45:56 <adu> this is the first time i've gotten forth to work for me
17:46:03 <aaronl> kewl
17:46:04 <adu> :)
17:46:27 <JohanRussouw> k i will type it in here 
17:47:00 <JohanRussouw> then u could mess around with it , maybe later i might test it as i wrote it at wrok where there no forth
17:47:13 * JohanRussouw looking for book
17:48:08 <JohanRussouw> is like this
17:49:49 <JohanRussouw> : ?match 0 swap dup c@ tib c@ = if tib c@ 0 do dup i + c@ tib i + c@ = 0= if swap 1+ swap then loop drop ;
17:51:26 <JohanRussouw> : -find lastword begin @ dup nfa-cfa ?match until nfa-cfa dup C@ + ;
17:51:37 <JohanRussouw> somehting like that will work
17:51:50 <JohanRussouw> one day i might test it
17:53:23 <TheBlueWizard> ok...syntax of CASE ... END-CASE:      ( n ) CASE ( any expr to compare with ) OF ( do something ) ENDOF   (any expr to compare with ) OF .... ENDOF ( etc. ) ENDCASE
17:53:30 <TheBlueWizard> example:
17:53:45 <JohanRussouw> TheBlueWizard i told him that already
17:53:49 <JohanRussouw> he got it working
17:54:24 <TheBlueWizard> KEY CASE 65 OF ." It is an A!" CR ENDOF 66 OF ." It's a B!" ENDOF ....ENDCASE
17:55:13 <JohanRussouw> nite all its 3:51am here and i am going to bed
17:55:24 <TheBlueWizard> bye JohanRussouw
17:55:57 <adu> but if theres a value already on the stack then you you need 'n case'
17:56:31 <adu> so does 'key' wait for a keypress?
17:57:01 <TheBlueWizard> yes
17:57:24 <JohanRussouw> ?key tell u if a key is pressed
17:57:29 <TheBlueWizard> it reads a keystroke (the implementation is slightly implementation dependent)
17:57:51 <adu> ya, in forth you haveto press enter
17:57:55 <adu> pforth that is
17:58:49 <adu> "implementation is slightly implementation dependent"
17:58:52 <adu> thats interesting
17:59:07 <TheBlueWizard> ?key seems to be a nonstandard word....?terminal lets you checks to see if a key is pressed without waiting
17:59:18 <adu> i wonder how many words can only be defined by themselves?
17:59:33 <TheBlueWizard> adu: oops...hehe...my brain is kinda half-dead tonite
17:59:39 <adu> hehe
17:59:41 <adu> thats ok
18:00:10 <adu> i'm not sure if i want to write an entire python interpreter, but i want to start out with the VM
18:00:37 <TheBlueWizard> implementing a Forth emulator in Python should be real easy....
18:00:48 <adu> but does ?key wait until a key is pressed?
18:00:54 <TheBlueWizard> use Python dictionary for word lookup
18:00:57 --- quit: JohanRussouw ()
18:01:07 <adu> tbw: really? why? because its python? (hehe)
18:01:22 <adu> o dict ya
18:02:30 <adu> i'm wondering how to implement the 'variant' type
18:02:43 <TheBlueWizard> variant? what for?
18:02:55 <adu> because thats what the pythonVM uses
18:03:07 <adu> its only been refered that way in VBScript tho
18:03:13 <adu> but python uses a similar type
18:03:21 <adu> it just has a genaric Number type
18:03:30 <adu> then a genaric List type
18:03:44 <TheBlueWizard> oh...by the way, you have to watch out for Forthish assumption that there is a memory arranged as array of cells...you may have to rearchitect the Forth language a bit to fit into Python "architecture" :)
18:04:11 <adu> maybe
18:04:21 <adu> i haven't come upon that assumption yet tho
18:04:30 <TheBlueWizard> oh, by variant you mean typelessness?
18:04:36 <adu> yup
18:04:51 <adu> VBScript uses variant to mean everything tho
18:04:56 * TheBlueWizard nods re: not hitting the assumption...but watch out for , and such
18:05:03 <adu> Number/Array/String/Reference
18:05:28 <adu> the funny thing is i've never programed in vbscript
18:05:48 <TheBlueWizard> I have....only at my boss's gunpoint :(
18:05:52 <adu> ouch
18:06:37 <adu> i'm not doing to bad tho
18:06:53 <adu> i got some binary operator instructions to work
18:06:56 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...my boss insists on using vbscript....he forbade Python and other non-M$ stuff
18:07:14 <adu> the hard part will be the coersions and slicings i think
18:07:49 <adu> and i think i need to learn about python more
18:07:57 <adu> i don't know what a map is
18:08:28 <adu> tbw: i'm sorry, thats too bad
18:08:42 <TheBlueWizard> and you may need to enforce some typings on the operands...like + expects two numbers, not a number and a string
18:09:08 <adu> does UNARY_POSITIVE actually do anything?
18:09:16 * TheBlueWizard shrugs...he works in a mgmt-loves-M$ workshop
18:09:45 <adu> i haven't been able to find this out
18:10:13 <adu> the only examples it gave were >>>x=-6 \ >>>x \ -6
18:10:29 <adu> and >>>x=+6 \ >>>x \ 6
18:10:34 <adu> and thats like DUH!
18:10:47 <adu> but is it at all like abs()?
18:11:08 <adu> or does it just do nothing? if it does then why make it an opcode?
18:11:57 <TheBlueWizard> you can optimize away the unary_positive....I guess it is there for decompilability....
18:12:07 <TheBlueWizard> and for formality
18:12:25 <adu> maybe
18:13:16 <TheBlueWizard> oh wait!   not useless after all!  there is a __unary_PLUS__ thing (don't remember how it is spelled here), but that would get called for an object
18:13:27 <TheBlueWizard> e.g.
18:13:32 <TheBlueWizard> class silly:
18:13:58 <TheBlueWizard>   def __unary_plus__(self):  # don't remember how it is called
18:14:00 <adu> or maybe thats they're noop
18:14:04 <TheBlueWizard>     blah blah
18:14:17 <TheBlueWizard> then x=silly()
18:14:41 <TheBlueWizard> +x would be compiled to x __unary_plus__ code sequence
18:14:46 <TheBlueWizard> and there yoa go!
18:14:50 <TheBlueWizard> ya even
18:15:45 <TheBlueWizard> does that make sense now
18:15:47 <TheBlueWizard> ?
18:15:50 <adu> no
18:16:09 <adu> i don't undeerstand how x=silly() has +x in it
18:16:17 <TheBlueWizard> do you know about those __xxx__ stuff, like __add__, for example?
18:16:30 <adu> no
18:16:41 <adu> i know the opcodes thats all
18:17:05 <adu> i've programed a bit in python trying to make a card game, but didn't get very far
18:17:17 <TheBlueWizard> hmm!   you better learn a bit about classes, OOP stuff, and those __xxx__....they're cool in Python!
18:17:24 <adu> i never got comfortable with Tkiner
18:17:36 <adu> i know __main__
18:17:37 <TheBlueWizard> only a bit?  I see....you got a LOT to learn then hehe
18:17:55 <TheBlueWizard> heh
18:18:06 <adu> where can i find them then?
18:18:14 <adu> are they in the docs online?
18:19:06 <TheBlueWizard> these are documented, yes....though Python 1.5.x docs aren't quite good on the __xxx__ stuff....but Python 2.0 doc is good!
18:19:26 <TheBlueWizard> you can also browse the docs online at http://www.python.org
18:19:44 <adu> ya, thats what i usually do
18:19:50 <TheBlueWizard> heh
18:19:51 <adu> is it in Lang Ref or Lib Ref?
18:20:04 <TheBlueWizard> lemme check
18:23:24 * TheBlueWizard is on slow modem...be patient
18:30:08 <TheBlueWizard> ok....it is in the index section in Lang Ref ... http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/genindex.html   at the very top it shows all sorts of __xxx__ calls/methods.  By the way, unary minus is mapped to __neg__ and unary plus is mapped to __pos__
18:31:23 <adu> grr
18:31:32 <TheBlueWizard> hmm?
18:31:50 <adu> n/m
18:32:05 <adu> i'm being lactured
18:32:22 <TheBlueWizard> lactured?  you mean lectured?  by me?
18:40:19 <adu> no by my mom
18:40:21 <adu> she's gone now
18:40:23 <adu> phew
18:40:33 <adu> i got pulled over by a cop awhile ago
18:40:43 <adu> and my car insurance company is screwing me
18:41:17 <TheBlueWizard> yikes!!!!   now I can understand why you're being l;ectured....if I were your mom I would LECTURE you :>
18:41:17 <adu> that pretty cool that you can redefine methods for numeric types
18:41:29 <adu> hahaha
18:41:52 <TheBlueWizard> provides the variables are objects, yes, you can redefine add etc
18:41:58 <adu> and i'm still reading about python... hehe
18:42:04 <TheBlueWizard> example:
18:42:10 <TheBlueWizard> class Matrix:
18:42:25 <adu> so if you decided to make a new numeric type say.. SpelledType
18:42:28 <TheBlueWizard>   def __init__(self, dim):
18:42:37 <adu> then you could define operations on them with those 
18:42:59 <adu> so >>>SpelledType "two" * "three"
18:43:05 <adu> would make "six"
18:43:06 <TheBlueWizard>     self._data = dim*[dim*[0]]
18:43:06 <adu> :)
18:43:23 <TheBlueWizard>   def __add__(self,another_matrix):
18:43:43 <adu> woa
18:43:51 <adu> i have no idea what that does but it looks cool
18:44:09 <TheBlueWizard>     # cvhecks to make sure self and another_matrix dims are same
18:44:45 <TheBlueWizard>     new_matrix = Matrix(self._dim)  # _dim should be created in __init__ hehe
18:44:50 <adu> you mean like a mathmatical matrix?
18:45:03 <TheBlueWizard>     # some loop summing up the entries...a nice exercise
18:45:05 <adu> isn't that just implementable with a 2-dimantionall array?
18:45:41 <TheBlueWizard> then I can have two matrices x and y and I can just type x+y...a matrix addition!  it actually calls __add__
18:45:50 <TheBlueWizard> yes, yes, yes
18:46:02 <adu> oic
18:46:03 <adu> n/m
18:46:15 <adu> i'm going for a walk
18:46:20 <adu> i'm getting pissed
18:46:33 <adu> i think caffe baci is still open
18:46:38 <adu> :)
18:46:41 <adu> i love coffee
18:47:15 * TheBlueWizard bans coffee
18:47:32 <adu> hmm
18:47:47 <adu> i'll talk wid you later about python some more
18:47:56 <adu> i'm glad you know so much about it
18:48:40 <TheBlueWizard> I've been coding in Python for about 2 and half years now
18:49:25 <adu> cool
18:49:46 <adu> so you understand how cool pythonVM in forth is?
18:51:29 <TheBlueWizard> yeah.....and did you know about JPython?
18:51:37 <adu> yup
18:51:50 <TheBlueWizard> it's also cool!
18:52:00 <TheBlueWizard> even cooler than Java IMHO
18:52:04 <adu> i'm thinking of looking at it's sounces to see if theres an easy way to implement python
18:52:08 <adu> hahaha
18:52:20 <adu> now it's called Jython
18:52:22 <TheBlueWizard> ha ha ha
18:52:37 <adu> it is
18:53:20 <TheBlueWizard> Jython?  Never heard of *that* one....
18:53:27 <adu> ts the same thing
18:53:31 <adu> they just renamed it
18:53:41 <adu> i think
18:53:55 <adu> i'm really going for a walk now
18:54:15 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...I wasn't aware it got renamed....
18:54:23 <adu> and igt get some HW done for the mid term or something
19:14:25 --- quit: adu (i meant it, i'm really going this time)
19:50:30 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp16-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth
20:35:50 <TheBlueWizard> gotta sleep....bye all
20:35:57 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth
20:46:05 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-90-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth
21:57:45 --- join: edrx_ (edrx@200.222.134.204) joined #forth
21:58:04 <edrx_> adu: ni!
22:02:53 <adu> ni
22:02:54 <adu> hehe
22:07:59 <adu> hey i'm making use of that
22:08:10 <adu> i'm building a pythonVM in forth
22:08:14 <adu> :)
22:08:25 <adu> its for a very specific pourpose
22:08:38 <adu> o ok
22:08:55 <adu> o ok -- delete that....wrong window
22:34:36 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@206-136.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth
22:36:04 <Talia`> =)
22:36:55 <aaronl> Hello
22:37:19 <Talia`> hello aaron, how are you?
22:37:28 <aaronl> great
22:37:35 <aaronl> i'm on vacation :)
22:37:40 <Talia`> I am glad to hear it =)
22:37:45 <Talia`> hah, cool....where?
22:37:58 <aaronl> at home :)
22:38:02 <aaronl> vacation from school for 9 days
22:38:29 <aaronl> been reading about Taoism, it reminded me of you...
22:38:31 <Talia`> oh, cool
22:38:38 <Talia`> :D
22:38:50 <Talia`> seriously?
22:38:53 <Talia`> why? =)
22:40:34 <aaronl> it talks a lot about the uselessnes of teaching, and experiencing life and stuff
22:40:46 <aaronl> pretty interesting actually
22:43:40 <Talia`> cool
22:43:49 <Talia`> I am not sure if I embody any of the best traits of Taoism
22:44:04 <Talia`> but I'll take it as a compliment =)
22:44:17 <aaronl> a taoist would say that you don't have to ;-)
22:44:28 <Talia`> that's true =)
22:44:41 <Talia`> have you been studying the classic literature or other sources?
22:45:12 <aaronl> i just started tonight reading both the classic book and a modern introduction
22:45:41 <Talia`> that's wicked
22:45:50 <Talia`> on your own whims?
22:46:03 <aaronl> yeah. now that i have time off
22:46:19 <aaronl> i'll need to get to some coding
22:47:28 <Talia`> cool
22:47:35 <Talia`> back to your projects?
22:47:46 <aaronl> maybe a hike too if i can get off my ass =)
22:48:04 <aaronl> yeah, whatever projects i can find right now
22:48:11 <aaronl> i don't have many long-term interests
22:48:15 <Talia`> cool, any night hiking?
22:48:38 <aaronl> probably not
22:48:42 <aaronl> that would be fun though
22:48:54 <Talia`> yeah, it really is
22:49:13 <Talia`> are you located in a place with an abundance of snow during the winter?
22:49:35 <aaronl> no, i'm in silicon valley
22:49:41 <Talia`> too bad :P
22:49:44 <aaronl> the mountains are a 4 hour drive, which is pretty resonable
22:50:12 <Talia`> if you ever get the chance....wait until 5-10 days around the full moon, and if you can get a lot of snow on the ground the better
22:50:15 <Talia`> it's damn surreal =)
22:50:18 <aaronl> hehe
22:50:48 <aaronl> i'd need appropriate music to go with that :)
22:51:07 <Talia`> hah =)
22:53:17 <Talia`> I am investigating the possibility of setting up a machine with polyForth
22:53:32 <Talia`> the machine isn't expensive, but polyForth is
22:53:47 <aaronl> commercial?
22:53:51 <Talia`> but, if I can find the time with all my other objectives to work a lot with it, it would be extremely powerful
22:53:52 <Talia`> yes
22:54:11 <aaronl> what do you plan to do with it?
22:54:40 <Talia`> what I would like to do is construct a direct serial or parallel MIDI interface for the machine
22:55:33 <Talia`> and then proceed to port portions of HMSL over, and actually use polyForth to respond to MIDI actions taken by the controller keyboards and respond by acting as a second or third pair of hand in controlling envelopes for destinations
22:55:57 <Talia`> it would be also useful if I ever get any of my ideas of HRTF's into some workable software form
22:56:23 <aaronl> amazing
22:56:46 <aaronl> i would never think that forth would be good for sound editing
22:56:53 <Talia`> yeah
22:57:01 <aaronl> what would spring to mind for me would be scheme or something...
22:57:15 <aaronl> i guess forth would be good if you'd find it usefull
22:57:24 <Talia`> but more than anything, I believe Forth's power in a real-time control context for the synthesist is amazing
22:57:35 <aaronl> ...it doesnt remove creative control when used like that?
22:57:48 <Talia`> no, it shouldn't
22:58:26 <Talia`> because what I'd like it do is be able to preprogram the Forth system to respond in some fashion (either by a lookup table or an algorithm) and adjust the settings over time
22:58:38 <aaronl> ok
22:58:42 <aaronl> that's all way over my head :)
22:58:56 <Talia`> for example, using HRTF's it would be very easy to give the impression that the sound is panning a circle around the listener's head
22:59:21 <aaronl> nice!
22:59:25 <Talia`> playing very softly might send say, low velocity values via MIDI to the Forth system which takes those values and can make a small circle
22:59:36 <aaronl> do you render stuff to 5.1 channel crazy format?
22:59:36 <Talia`> by playing increasingly louder
22:59:43 <aaronl> does midi even support surround?
22:59:53 <Talia`> the Forth system could respond making ever larger circles around the listener's head
23:00:05 <Talia`> well, no...this is something that would also have to calculated on the fly
23:00:13 <Talia`> and done directly to the audio hardware
23:00:24 <aaronl> so it would be an illusion
23:00:24 <Talia`> but the Forth system would do most of the calculation and input
23:01:14 <Talia`> well....all MIDI is as you know is merely a protocol for allowing machines of different manufacturers to communicate and act accordingly in a master-slave system (even when patchbay's and isolators are used)
23:01:34 <aaronl> yeah
23:01:37 <Talia`> so, basically the HRTF calculation would be modifications to the spectra and being piped out of the audio hardware
23:02:08 * aaronl thinks that good ideas and music are more important than auditory effects, but maybe that's just him
23:02:16 <Talia`> regardless of whether the Forth system actually did the calculations or not, is not as important as the fact as that the Forth system could certainly direct the audio hardware where to place the sound over time in real-time
23:02:22 <Talia`> well, I agree
23:02:48 <Talia`> but, I think however one can push the envelope (no pun intended) of music synthesis and provide a more immersive effect is definitely called for
23:03:02 <Talia`> because I think a lot of what synthesis is, is painting with sound
23:03:32 <Talia`> and when one can do away with painting on a single dot or a single long line (mono and stereo respectively), and paint anywhere in space
23:03:41 <Talia`> it becomes much more real
23:04:05 <Talia`> these are effects that one begins to think less about listening to music then actually standing in it
23:04:08 <Talia`> like a concert hall
23:04:14 <aaronl> i guess
23:04:20 <Talia`> except do-able from almost any modest hi-fi setup
23:04:23 <aaronl> but if there's little substance, it doesn't matter
23:04:36 <Talia`> that's true!
23:04:52 <Talia`> all these ideas I have kind of ride on the fact that the music is good and worth doing this to
23:05:04 <Talia`> which is certainly a big 'if' =)
23:05:45 <Talia`> because, I think of synthesizers as not just a way of fabricating sound but the tip of an iceburg of new dimensions of freedom in the development of timbres, tuning, etc.
23:05:55 <Talia`> why not add auditory localization to that list?
23:06:05 <aaronl> yeah, sure
23:06:12 <aaronl> sound processing is awesome
23:06:18 <Talia`> since we are here and going to great pains to create, why not go all the way and control ever factor worth controlling
23:07:37 <Talia`> yeah, and to be honest I think it is about ten years behind video in its practice
23:07:52 <Talia`> the fact is that the capability is there, and has been for a long time
23:08:12 <Talia`> and no one seems to investigate and take a litte time and a little of their profit margin to push the art
23:08:50 <Talia`> the way most professionals work with synthesizers, most of them buy pre-programmed sounds or buy modules full of them
23:08:54 * aaronl nudges his fader dial
23:09:01 <Talia`> and then squeeze what little they started with out of those
23:09:08 <Talia`> paying no attention to the more interesting things out there
23:09:17 <Talia`> since it is more an act of commercialism than anything else
23:10:10 <Talia`> so, oh well
23:10:17 <Talia`> I'll shut up now
23:10:23 <Talia`> since I get carried away
23:10:29 <aaronl> yeah, get hacking :)
23:10:47 <aaronl> a sort of PostScript for sound would be interesting
23:10:51 <aaronl> if that's not what MOD is
23:11:32 <Talia`> so, in short...I think a dedicated machine for polyForth would allow me the control of these systems in real-time with proper thought beforehand and without multitracking the hell out of it
23:11:34 <Talia`> yeah, it's a good idea
23:11:41 <Talia`> but unfortunately, fidelity is the first thing to go
23:11:46 <aaronl> yaeh
23:12:04 <Talia`> although, I have to admit MOD's sound pretty damn, considering that many of the samples are at 8 KHz (!!)
23:12:10 <Talia`> damn = damn good
23:12:34 <aaronl> riht
23:12:37 <aaronl> right
23:12:53 <aaronl> they sound digital
23:13:03 <aaronl> but amazingly good for the sample quality anyway
23:13:20 <aaronl> for some reason mixing 8khz samples sounds much better than sampling at 8khz
23:13:40 <Talia`> what do you mean?
23:14:16 <aaronl> record a bunch of 8khz samples, mix them to form a song; it sometimes sounds good
23:14:32 <aaronl> sample the whole song as one recording at 8khz; it sounds like crap
23:14:33 <Talia`> oh, yes, sorry
23:14:50 <Talia`> what is the sample quality of the overall mix of 8KHz samples?
23:15:20 <Talia`> well, for example....I have a sampler called the Emulator II+
23:15:43 <Talia`> it's basically a slightly improved version of the Emulator II in that adds an additional 512K memory and an extra 5.25" floppy drive
23:15:49 <Talia`> other than that, it is identical
23:16:04 <Talia`> it samples at about 22KHz, and 12-bit (which is ultimately converted to 8-bit)
23:16:21 <Talia`> they use an analogue filter, strangely enough
23:16:25 <aaronl> hehe
23:16:59 <Talia`> and it gives it a quality that actually gives the overall system a warm grainy quality
23:17:23 <Talia`> pretty cool for a machine that was produced 1984-1986 =)
23:19:19 <Talia`> I think the real key to lo-fi sampling is just knowing what you can and can't do with that
23:19:45 <Talia`> I mean, as it is if any note steps above 4 KHz in pitch, you begin to alias
23:20:11 <Talia`> and even with a proper lo-pass filter, you lost way too much
23:20:15 <Talia`> so, you have to put up with the aliasing
23:20:48 <Talia`> the nyquist frequency can be a mixed blessing, but most of the time is quite bad if you aren't paying attention
23:23:27 <Talia`> one of my favourite synthesizers, called the Kawai K5000, aliases all of the time when you start treading above C4
23:23:43 <Talia`> but, it is quite easy to compensate and make the aliasing part of the character of the sound
23:24:09 <Talia`> it's the only synthesizer possibly cool enough to make the sounds of aliasing actually desireable at times
23:29:17 <aaronl> oh sorry, haven't been paying attention
23:29:31 <Talia`> not a problem =)
23:29:47 <aaronl> kawai... my dad has a kawai baby-grand
23:29:54 <Talia`> how does he like it?
23:30:23 <aaronl> it's great
23:32:55 --- quit: Talia` (Ping timeout for Talia`[206-136.dialup.cloud9.net])
23:34:19 * aaronl is away: quake
23:35:11 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@206-136.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth
23:35:17 <Talia`> sorry about that
23:35:19 <Talia`> froze up
23:35:31 <Talia`> missed anything you said after I asked the question
23:40:31 <Talia`> I don't know anything about Kawai's other products
23:40:41 <Talia`> but I enjoy some of their synthesizers every so often
23:41:06 <Talia`> they are often quirky with a very harshly bright sound
23:41:12 <Talia`> but if you find the right one, they can be a real blast
23:59:18 --- quit: edrx_ ([x]chat)
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/01.02.16