00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.02.04 00:07:27 _start: 00:07:27 mov edx,7 00:07:27 mov ecx,msg 00:07:27 xor ebx,ebx 00:07:27 inc ebx 00:07:28 mov eax,4 00:07:30 int 0x80 00:07:32 xor ebx,ebx 00:07:34 xor eax,eax 00:07:36 inc eax 00:07:38 int 0x80 00:07:40 msg db 27,91,72,27,91,50,74 ;our dear string 00:07:42 This is clear(1) in 106 bytes WITH the ELF header 00:15:43 k what was that? 00:16:05 i am not 2 clever with linux systems calls 01:00:01 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 01:19:11 hi adu 01:24:40 hi 01:24:54 do i know you? 01:25:41 * aaronl is away: bed 01:25:51 i'm trying to make a simple hack to convert s/\r/\n/ 01:26:26 but awk doesn't accept escaped chars, and seems to ignore newlines anyway 01:29:13 --- join: gerryx (gerry@202.103.53.95) joined #forth 01:29:20 hello 01:29:27 what is forth? 01:30:22 anyone here? 01:30:26 y 01:30:27 aa 01:30:41 where are you from? 01:30:41 forth is usually an interpreted language 01:30:49 cali 01:30:57 like perl 01:31:04 even more so 01:31:13 even more? 01:31:14 its usually used for real-time situations 01:31:27 oic 01:31:28 usually its on a prompt 01:31:52 i remember, especilly using stack 01:31:57 but of course you can make blablabla.fth files with lots of stuff in it 01:32:02 ya 01:32:12 like 6 7 + . 01:32:16 would show 13 01:32:39 fast? 01:32:44 very 01:32:53 compare c? 01:33:07 a forth interpreter is smaller than any other interpreter 01:33:19 depends on the situation 01:33:36 in some cases it might be because of c's abstractions 01:33:37 oh? how much KB? 01:33:50 where can i get it? 01:33:59 one implementation of forth fit under 100k 01:34:08 there are TONS of versions 01:34:21 which is best? 01:34:29 your opinion 01:34:29 historically it was used for controling mission critical devices like telescopes 01:34:39 www.forth.org is a good place to start 01:34:44 now? 01:34:59 genernal programming? 01:35:02 i don't know 01:35:14 now its used as the basis of OpenFirmware 01:35:32 hardware? 01:35:39 the controler configurator for new cards and stuff like Intel arch's CMOS, its used in PPC and Alpha 01:36:24 have GUI? 01:36:34 it allows CPU-independant booting 01:36:39 no TUI 01:36:49 TUI? 01:37:03 if you presss (on my machine) cmd-opt-O-F at boot time, you get to OFW 01:37:09 text-user-interface 01:37:17 textual? 01:37:30 is it diffcult? 01:37:37 OFW=Open Firmware 01:37:40 forth? 01:37:45 or ofw? 01:37:46 yes? 01:37:50 forth? 01:37:52 not really 01:37:59 both 01:38:10 the best options i've found in learning it are the "words" and "see" words 01:38:23 you see, its simple in that EVERYTHING is separated by a space 01:38:23 what? 01:38:49 one space? 01:39:14 "words" shows all available words for an implementation, and "see " shows the definition of that word 01:39:20 any # of spaces 01:39:41 that means that 6 7 + . is parsed as 01:39:55 4 separate things to execute 01:40:09 "hello world" program? 01:40:19 it pushes the 6 and 7 onto the stack, and + adds them and "." displays whats on the stack 01:40:35 oh 01:40:49 : hello-world ." Hello World." ; 01:41:06 result? also on stack? 01:41:09 ":" begins a definition, and ";" ends a definition 01:41:23 hello-world is now a new WORD, not a program 01:41:37 in forth you add words to the dictionary, thats how you get functionality 01:41:49 dic? 01:42:02 another stacks? 01:42:12 the ." word parses whatever is after until a space is found, and displays immediately, no stack alteration 01:42:42 no dictionary is just a special part of mem where strings are stored for retrival of code 01:43:01 low level progamming? 01:43:15 like asmble lang 01:43:26 is't it? 01:43:31 some implementations allow the use of an assembler 01:43:46 thats usually code ;code 01:43:59 embed? 01:44:02 but it's not an assembler 01:44:32 you said it's script langauage 01:44:40 it can be used as an embeded language, but there is also one forth with OOP capability with access to GUI libraries, so its hard to stereotype it 01:44:53 no, i said it was an interpreted language 01:45:20 oh, my meanings interpreted = script 01:45:47 such as perl,python,ruby,rebol,etc 01:45:57 there are 2 kinds of definitions code and forth. code is in asm usually, (and built-in) and forth words are just added to the dictionary, and broken down to their smaller forth words. 01:46:22 my meaning of interpreted = NOT compiled 01:46:48 it must be very diffcult to program for GUI 01:47:02 ya, i never understood how to program that one 01:47:13 i program for PyGTK 01:47:24 its cool 01:47:25 oh, not forth? 01:47:50 i mean forth isn't relaly made for a GUI altho some have given it the ability to. 01:48:19 gerryx: i'm planning on making my own version of forth, but i still haveto do alot of learning 01:48:33 oh,great 01:48:37 what? 01:48:47 i know alot, just not everything 01:48:51 make your forth 01:49:00 i want to know everything before i make my forth 01:49:09 certainly 01:49:12 hehe 01:49:22 you interested in using forth? 01:49:33 oh, i will try it 01:49:57 gforth is good for learning, theres also eforth, but its in asm i havn't used it... 01:50:19 also i'm trying to help port isforth to PPC, so look out for that soon too 01:50:21 :) 01:50:31 gforth? oh, linux stuff 01:50:38 what do you use? 01:50:40 gnu stuff 01:50:49 c c++ 01:50:51 java 01:50:52 dats cool 01:51:01 ew java.... yuk 01:51:04 sometimes ,rebol 01:51:17 i hear rebol and ruby are very awsome 01:51:24 oh? 01:51:42 rebol is a new script lang especial for net 01:51:54 and more people program in ruby in japan than in perl/python/tcl combined 01:52:05 i know it 01:52:21 i meet a japanese at #freebsd 01:52:21 the japanese version of O'rilies RUBY Reference came out in japanese before it did in english 01:52:48 oh,made by japanese? 01:52:52 i don't think there is even an English version of it 01:53:07 i don't think so, it has english syntax...... 01:53:22 another new scripts 01:53:27 guess ppl here just don't understand it 01:53:50 you know what i like about forth? 01:53:58 i just hear it :-) 01:54:06 it gives you a simple view of your computer 01:54:18 oh? you like it? 01:55:24 i would rather use python 01:55:43 if you've ever read any of Chuck's papers (the creator of forth) he'll eventually mention about the unneccesary abstractions placed on computers today, and how its so much easier if you use a forth application. he was never quite happy with forth, tho, he's still trying to refine his ideas. 01:55:49 i like python too 01:56:15 but python is a more complex abstraction. forth is a very simple abstraction 01:56:36 chuck's philosophy was to have as little abstraction as possible between you and your computer 01:56:37 python for genernel usage 01:56:44 o ya 01:57:16 forth, i think it for hardware 01:57:29 instead asmbling 01:57:45 most people think that. 01:57:47 i have to go now 01:57:50 wait 01:57:56 your can do cgi in forth 01:58:03 look at forth.org 01:58:04 cgi? 01:58:07 ya 01:58:15 look at forth.org 01:58:18 using forth? 01:58:22 yes 01:58:35 thanks, i will try it 01:58:38 k 01:58:49 someone calling me 01:58:55 bye 01:58:59 wish a good day to you 01:59:01 bye 01:59:04 --- part: gerryx left #forth 02:21:52 bye 02:22:01 later dudes 02:22:07 --- part: adu left #forth 03:31:09 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp79-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 10:21:41 --- quit: Fare (Leaving) 11:14:09 --- quit: ult ([x]chat) 12:01:18 --- join: babble (eper@pc-62-31-82-68-ll.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #forth 12:34:16 --- quit: JohanRussouw (varley.openprojects.net barnes.openprojects.net) 12:34:16 --- quit: aaronl (varley.openprojects.net barnes.openprojects.net) 12:34:17 --- quit: babble (varley.openprojects.net barnes.openprojects.net) 12:35:39 --- join: JohanRussouw (jrus@ndf-dial-196-30-124-95.mweb.co.za) joined #forth 12:39:47 --- join: babble (eper@pc-62-31-82-68-ll.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #forth 12:40:36 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 12:43:12 --- quit: babble (sterling.openprojects.net hogan.openprojects.net) 12:43:12 --- quit: aaronl (sterling.openprojects.net hogan.openprojects.net) 12:43:16 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 12:43:17 --- join: babble (eper@pc-62-31-82-68-ll.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #forth 14:15:10 --- quit: babble () 14:57:12 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 14:59:48 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp79-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 15:32:14 yo dudes 15:32:26 --- join: ult (ult@149.149.201.30) joined #forth 15:33:59 --- quit: JohanRussouw (Ping timeout for JohanRussouw[ndf-dial-196-30-124-95.mweb.co.za]) 15:34:15 --- join: JohanRussouw (jrus@ndf-dial-196-30-124-95.mweb.co.za) joined #forth 15:46:21 --- quit: adu (Ping timeout for adu[adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net]) 16:39:59 --- quit: Fare (Leaving) 18:01:01 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:06:47 * aaronl is away: dinner 18:34:39 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ppp-40.u1-h1.dca.fcc.net) joined #forth 18:34:39 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard 18:34:44 hiya all 18:53:44 i gtg to dinner 18:53:55 k 19:07:53 gotta go...bye! 19:07:56 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o adu 19:07:58 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 19:19:27 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.111) joined #forth 19:24:59 hey edrx 19:25:48 hi 19:26:04 any news? 19:26:44 I'm just coming from a friend's house 19:27:07 I installed my things there to show them 19:27:25 ic 19:27:29 mainly the demo that shows emacs+screen+shell+gcc+gdb in action 19:27:30 nothing that new 19:27:47 i'm really grtting into ofw, just got done learning a few things 19:27:51 their installation is so bad I felt like sreaming 19:27:55 i really wish i could get ofw to boot linux 19:28:00 hehe 19:28:03 ofw? 19:28:18 OpenFirmware 19:28:29 its like CMOS only on Alpha and PowerPC 19:28:38 is it something like a free BIOS? 19:28:45 no, not a bios 19:29:03 it makes a device tree before the OS comes up 19:29:16 maybe a BIOS/CMOS mixture.... 19:29:44 do most of the PC hardware also work on the powerpc? 19:30:05 if its PCI, or USB, maybe 19:30:13 NO ISA at all 19:30:52 i have a USB adapter card that said "Made for Windows 98" on the box (PCI) and it works fine with my mac 19:31:00 :) 19:31:16 i hook up my USB mouse to it, but theres only one problem 19:32:03 still? Or solved? 19:32:05 it doesn't work in the beginning, because i also have a ADB mouse hooked up to it, so i have to unplug-then-plug-in again to make it recognise the USB-mouse as a mouse..... 19:32:17 no it works, but i have doing querky procedures 19:32:34 ugh 19:32:38 s/have/hate/ 19:32:57 --- join: junk (spark@p65-max2.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 19:33:02 --- part: junk left #forth 19:33:09 ugh? 19:34:21 "ugh" because it doesn't seem very convenient to have to unplug the mouse and then plug it again to have it working 19:34:32 :| 19:36:32 I'll disconnect, I have lots to study and my mind is spinning like crazy since I knew that a friend of mine started to take female hormones 19:36:41 bye 19:36:45 --- part: edrx left #forth 20:41:23 --- part: JohanRussouw left #forth 20:54:50 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@206-136.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth 21:33:44 hi there 22:20:42 --- quit: adu (Ping timeout for adu[adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net]) 23:29:57 --- join: ree (jwm@twisted.goodnet.com) joined #forth 23:30:34 hey all 23:51:27 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 23:51:43 ree? 23:51:51 hey adu 23:51:55 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' by ChanServ 23:52:02 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: -o clog 23:52:16 cool 23:52:27 i din't know you were into forth 23:52:31 hehe 23:52:33 somewhat 23:52:38 talia is a friend of mine 23:52:41 ic 23:52:56 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' by ChanServ 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/01.02.04