00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.02.03
00:51:42 --- quit: aaronl (The name's X. Bitch X.)
02:10:41 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp118-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth
03:07:04 --- quit: Fare (Connection reset by pear)
05:11:19 --- join: JohanRussouw (jrus@196.30.125.56) joined #forth
05:11:38 <JohanRussouw> hello anyone home?
05:52:30 --- quit: JohanRussouw ([x]chat)
12:02:45 --- quit: ult (Ping timeout for ult[149.149.201.30])
12:47:53 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp9-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth
13:40:40 --- join: tcn (tcn@207.198.30.103) joined #forth
13:42:03 <Fare> how's retro/whatever?
13:49:49 --- quit: tcn (Ping timeout for tcn[207.198.30.103])
13:52:50 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth
14:00:59 --- join: ult (ultima@149.149.201.30) joined #forth
14:15:12 * aaronl is away: junk yard
14:48:23 --- quit: aaronl (barnes.openprojects.net adams.openprojects.net)
14:49:16 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth
15:37:20 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ppp-17.u1-h1.dca.fcc.net) joined #forth
15:37:20 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard
15:37:24 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
15:37:32 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +ooo aaronl Fare ult
15:50:40 --- join: tcn (tcn@207.198.30.88) joined #forth
15:50:48 <TheBlueWizard> hiya TheBlueWizard
15:50:54 <TheBlueWizard> hiya tcn 
15:50:59 <tcn> hehe
15:51:01 * TheBlueWizard oops hehe
15:51:13 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o tcn
15:51:37 <tcn> muchas gracias
15:51:43 * TheBlueWizard is just being narcassistic tonight :)
15:51:46 <TheBlueWizard> np
15:52:28 * TheBlueWizard 's friend may soon get a new job, which will be....M$-free! Yaaaah!
15:53:23 <tcn> hahah
15:53:30 <tcn> lucky bastard
15:53:39 <tcn> what is it?
15:54:47 <TheBlueWizard> yep...I don't know the name of the new company...but he told me that his current company was apparently trying to screw the other company, and that company decided to take revenge by stealing him from his current company :)
15:55:17 <tcn> heh
15:56:05 <TheBlueWizard> not a bad way to go....he's the top programmer and network expert at the current company, and if he leaves, boy...that company will be in a lot of trouble :)))
15:57:14 <tcn> yup, they give the geeks too much power.. same over here..
15:57:46 <TheBlueWizard> ha ha ha....geeks r00l!!!
15:58:58 <tcn> if I left they'd worry a little but the 1 guy running the LAN, man.. if he wanted to screw them...
15:59:36 <tcn> heh
15:59:46 <tcn> NT is bizzare
16:00:13 <TheBlueWizard> WinNT?
16:00:47 * TheBlueWizard chuckles re: one guy running the LAN...and if he leaves....oh boy....*boom!*
16:01:00 <tcn> these guys decided to establish some form of security, so only people actually working on a project would have access to the files..
16:01:31 <tcn> so all of a sudden I'm locked out of half the projects I provide support for
16:01:51 * TheBlueWizard shakes his head
16:02:06 <tcn> then I notice I'm only locked outta the top directory of each.. :)
16:02:14 <TheBlueWizard> idiotic mis-assignment of permissions
16:02:23 <tcn> just brilliant :)
16:02:39 * TheBlueWizard nods, then chuckles a bit
16:08:00 <tcn> umm.. what sort of crap does your job require you to work with?
16:08:14 <tcn> software that is
16:08:28 <TheBlueWizard> everything M$ :((((
16:08:41 * TheBlueWizard is trying to get a new job...preferably with Linux
16:09:05 <TheBlueWizard> I guess I am a pretty good proctologist at my work though ;)
16:09:05 <tcn> so you know about this Office 2k debacle..
16:09:19 <TheBlueWizard> what debacle?
16:10:10 <tcn> nobody wants to use it until everyone else does
16:10:51 <TheBlueWizard> we're migrating to Office 2000 at work....I have *no* choice (I work for Fed Gov't)
16:10:58 <tcn> heh
16:11:14 <tcn> well it's a small step in the right direction
16:11:43 <TheBlueWizard> and the mgmt does really drink M$ brand Koolaid(TM), mixed with the water from Lake Bill (will be TM'd?)
16:12:01 <tcn> yup
16:12:15 <TheBlueWizard> Do you know that there is a Lake Bill?
16:12:37 <tcn> is that the little reflecting pool in front of the M$ office?
16:13:07 <TheBlueWizard> I heard it is a man-made lake near M$ corporate buildings
16:13:53 <tcn> sounds about right
16:14:19 <tcn> so.. when are THEY gonna go under?
16:15:07 <TheBlueWizard> M$?  No idea....last I heard, M$ has about 9 billion in its war chest, so it will be awhile :(
16:15:49 <tcn> it could go fast when they have 100000 employees with their thumbs up their butts
16:16:14 <tcn> heh.. i heard one of my old friends just went to work there
16:16:39 <TheBlueWizard> but if M$ does go under, ... boy, boy, BOYYYYY!  Just imagine the chaos!  Linus being accused of ruining M$!  many corporates (which still use M$ stuff) would petition the Congress to save M$, etc....
16:17:15 <TheBlueWizard> last I heard, M$ has 40,000 employees...a good third of them are temps/contractors
16:17:45 <tcn> 40000 * 60000/yr..
16:17:57 <TheBlueWizard> so I wouldn't be surprised if M$ quickly lay off some hundreds just to save a buck or two (maniac laughter)
16:18:39 <TheBlueWizard> I bet each would be paid more than $60,000/yr....it is tough to recruit a competitive programmer....like me ;)
16:19:04 <tcn> true
16:19:33 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.85) joined #forth
16:20:15 <TheBlueWizard> it's a high pressure environment, so $60,000/yr wouldn't cut the cake...stock option is very sweet though (at current pace anyway)
16:20:21 <TheBlueWizard> hiya edrx
16:20:23 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o edrx
16:20:29 --- quit: edrx ([x]chat)
16:20:51 <tcn> hey, MY company blocks internal access to fuckedcompany.com.. but not fuckedco :)
16:21:14 <TheBlueWizard> huh?
16:21:16 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth
16:21:26 <TheBlueWizard> hiya adu
16:21:29 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o adu
16:22:19 <tcn> and I just thought "oh. it must be fuckedco, not fuckedcompany".. but i see it's both.. they really are blocking it
16:23:45 <tcn> hahah
16:23:47 <TheBlueWizard> if both name has the same IP address, then both are blocked....you see, the IP address, not the DNS name, is lockable....try using anonymizer.com to access this fuckedco site
16:23:57 <TheBlueWizard> maybe it works...maybe not
16:24:17 <tcn> I can see it from here just fine :)
16:24:40 <tcn> look, Gateway 2000 didn't make it past 2000
16:25:11 <adu> Yo
16:25:27 <tcn> hey
16:27:27 <TheBlueWizard> ha ha...I already know about Gateway (2000)....partly cuz of marketing...but there was another company named Gateway, hence the 2000 ....I suspect Gateway 2000 bought the name and then renamed itself....
16:28:01 * aaronl is away: quake
16:34:27 --- quit: tcn (Client Exiting)
16:34:29 --- join: tcn (tcn@207.198.30.89) joined #forth
16:36:05 * TheBlueWizard obligingly Borgify tcn
16:36:07 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o tcn
16:36:11 <TheBlueWizard> :)
16:38:06 <tcn> i need to find a new isp
16:40:56 <TheBlueWizard> your isp sux mondo time eh?
16:42:10 <tcn> a couple months ago they switched to a different number (bigger modem bank) and it's sucked since then
16:42:41 <TheBlueWizard> ah
16:43:33 <tcn> now i've been using tcn@tunes.org cause it's a hell of a lot easier to type for one thing.. so it's no skin off my back :)
16:44:04 <TheBlueWizard> heh
16:45:07 <TheBlueWizard> not, like, tcn@alll0zerzhaftatypethisst00pidfreakinlongispnamemwahahaha.com, eh?
16:47:31 <tcn> tcn@clarityconnect.com
16:47:31 <tcn> hehe.. i think I should have a .tom address
16:47:31 --- quit: tcn (Read error to tcn[207.198.30.89]: EOF from client)
16:50:04 --- join: tcn (tcn@207.198.30.25) joined #forth
16:50:28 <tcn> what was i saying?
16:51:04 <TheBlueWizard> you were saying that you think you need to have a .tom address....I gather your first name is Tom....
16:51:26 <tcn> oh yead
16:51:57 <TheBlueWizard> hmmm
16:53:12 <tcn> I don't really NEED an isp..
16:53:58 <tcn> i could go to the library.. :)
16:54:06 <TheBlueWizard> hehe
16:54:36 <TheBlueWizard> then surf to www.whitehouse.com...and the siren lights goes off! ;)
16:55:15 <tcn> eh?
16:55:37 --- quit: adu (Ping timeout for adu[adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net])
16:55:41 <TheBlueWizard> do you know this website?
16:56:49 <tcn> lemme see
16:57:22 * TheBlueWizard grinz
16:57:26 <tcn> hahaha
16:57:34 <TheBlueWizard> now you understand :)))
16:57:44 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o tcn
16:57:49 <tcn> i have images off but I get the point :)
16:58:02 <tcn> "black & beatiful!!"
16:58:25 <TheBlueWizard> yeah....easy to mix www.whitehouse.gov with that pr0n website
16:58:34 <tcn> hey is Paula Jones on there??
16:58:42 * TheBlueWizard inserts "up" somewhere....
16:59:01 <tcn> who goes to whitehouse.gov anyway?
16:59:33 <TheBlueWizard> no idea...I only visited it once, several years ago (that was when I heard that there is a pr0n website by that name...gotta see it for myself to believe that ;)
17:00:33 <TheBlueWizard> oh, I'm sure plenty visit www.whitehouse.gov...schoolkids for example (NOW you see the bait and switch technique...and what's what critics have been griping about :)))
17:01:26 --- quit: ult (Ping timeout for ult[149.149.201.30])
17:01:26 <tcn> goddamn radio announcers turn up the bass on their voice.. 
17:01:36 <tcn> pricks
17:02:23 <TheBlueWizard> pricks?
17:02:37 --- join: ult (ultima@149.149.201.30) joined #forth
17:03:58 <TheBlueWizard> hiya ult
17:04:07 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o ult
17:04:16 <tcn> hey ult
17:07:23 <tcn> hey! someone just tried to ftp in here..
17:07:41 <tcn> over a dialup..
17:11:58 <TheBlueWizard> tcn: are you a programmer?
17:12:04 <tcn> yeah
17:13:47 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...I am kinda toying with the idea of collaborating, real-time code pounding using IRC or the like....imagine:  I work on one function, and I simultaneously see you editing another routine....and make comments on what you or I are doing....
17:13:57 <TheBlueWizard> whaddaya think?  too confusing?
17:14:58 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth
17:15:14 <TheBlueWizard> rello adu
17:15:18 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o adu
17:16:44 <TheBlueWizard> tcn: I was thinking along the idea of coding as a form of talking.....I code in here...and you get the inspiration to hack something else on the same page or whatever...just a really wild idea :)
17:16:52 <adu> hi
17:17:30 <adu> get inspiration? same page as what?
17:18:05 <adu> : plan you want-to? if go ahead then ;
17:18:08 <tcn> yeah, too confusing
17:18:38 <tcn> it needs a different medium than IRC
17:18:50 <adu> like blackboard?
17:18:55 * TheBlueWizard nods
17:18:55 <tcn> yead
17:19:13 <adu> how do you do that? i hear its not that hard...
17:19:23 <tcn> file sharing..
17:19:24 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...only difference is that we are collobratively code pounding....
17:19:45 <adu> isn't there a protocol where you can all modify the same thing?
17:19:47 <TheBlueWizard> ack....s/collobra/collabora/
17:20:03 <tcn> let's write it :)
17:20:06 <adu> :)
17:20:07 <TheBlueWizard> AFAIK, no...at least not simultaneously
17:20:22 * TheBlueWizard laughs
17:20:33 <adu> i hear there are APPS that let you do that with images, and text, but not generally
17:20:45 <adu> what if there was something like that where it didn't matter what the data was?
17:21:09 <tcn> ever use the text editor on an old BBS?
17:21:14 <adu> i remember an app that did collaborative images
17:21:24 <adu> tcn: nope
17:21:32 <adu> i have BBEdit
17:21:33 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....ah yeah...I have seen networked whiteboarding and text (IRC, obviously)...but for code pounding....I suppose it is a bit too radical :)
17:21:40 <adu> but afaik thats a mac thing
17:21:54 <adu> not really.....
17:22:20 <tcn> one time a friend of mine dialed up and we wrote this story, using the bbs program's line editor
17:22:49 <adu> isn't bbs like a server?
17:22:49 * TheBlueWizard hmms....is there a (freebie/Free) whiteboarding app for Linux? good question! He writes down two or three thoughts....
17:23:07 <tcn> yeah
17:23:14 <TheBlueWizard> yeah, bbs is a server of sorts
17:23:33 <tcn> hey
17:23:46 <adu> you mean a line editor you found on bbs?
17:24:02 <tcn> we could use DCC
17:24:21 <adu> as the protocol?
17:24:30 <TheBlueWizard> DCC is for sending files, not for simultaneously coding...
17:24:32 <adu> or you mean WE personally right now?
17:24:52 <adu> it would haveto be like curses in nature
17:25:00 <adu> only update certain parts of the screen
17:25:06 <adu> and only send changes....
17:25:07 <TheBlueWizard> does emacs support IRC interface?
17:25:13 <tcn> i dunno
17:25:13 <adu> ooo good thought
17:25:25 <TheBlueWizard> if so maybe it would be easier to just hack up that one....
17:25:32 <adu> perl does
17:25:35 <tcn> do it in forth
17:25:38 <adu> and i know perl
17:25:48 <adu> hehe that would be wierd
17:26:13 <adu> i know fundamental forth, but i have no f**king clue how to do anything in it
17:26:20 <TheBlueWizard> ha ha ha...real weird, I'll grant that....at least it is something....
17:26:30 <adu> i can't get my linux inet working so i'm using macos
17:26:45 <adu> (that was to tcn)
17:26:52 <tcn> heh
17:27:07 <adu> but o DO HAVE linux, fyi
17:27:08 <tcn> you aren't really using mirc?
17:27:14 <TheBlueWizard> maybe we would subset certain text to delimit the collaborating stuff...e.g.
17:27:14 <adu> huh?
17:27:20 <tcn> tbw?
17:27:23 <adu> isn't that a windows client?
17:27:58 <adu> it could use irc, thats right
17:28:10 <adu> coip
17:28:14 <TheBlueWizard> *3 move-up insert-mode abcdef ESC move-left....
17:28:17 <tcn> anyway.. we could send files by DCC
17:28:17 <adu> collaboration over irc protocol
17:28:28 <adu> hehe
17:28:59 <adu> maybe it could be a suite that utilizes all of irc stuff
17:29:09 <TheBlueWizard> I don't know enough about emacs...but we could trap out the * prefix....of course those without that little script would see a stream of gibberish stuff
17:29:12 <adu> it would send the initial file by dcc, then alter it by irc
17:29:18 <tcn> or just make up another protocol
17:29:22 <TheBlueWizard> yep
17:29:28 <TheBlueWizard> whatever...
17:29:34 <adu> truw
17:29:42 <adu> i know
17:30:13 <adu> why don't we make it client-server oriented, so we are actually looking at a file on TCN's machine for examply
17:30:15 <TheBlueWizard> so do you think it is way kewl?   of course one will have to implement some security such as not being allowed to pull a file from someone else's computer, etc.
17:30:18 <adu> example
17:30:48 <adu> yes, the colld has to be running and some auth would be required
17:30:50 <adu> hmm
17:30:56 <tcn> just put it on a web/ftp server?
17:30:59 <adu> clbrtnd
17:31:08 <adu> collaborad
17:31:13 <adu> clbd
17:31:15 <adu> hmmm
17:31:15 <TheBlueWizard> I would rather make it more of a peer to peer thing...like the one we are staring here makes us forgot what server we are connected to :)
17:31:35 <adu> ok
17:31:38 <tcn> how about wiki?
17:31:38 <adu> that might work
17:31:42 <adu> omg
17:31:46 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...good question: who get to have the final copy?
17:31:50 <adu> this is big
17:31:58 <tcn> dada
17:31:58 <TheBlueWizard> wiki? not familiar with it....
17:32:00 <tcn> haha
17:32:22 <adu> tbw: you could make a special signal for shutting down the whiteboard
17:33:19 <TheBlueWizard> the whiteboard concept would be much like the channel; it would go away when the last nick exits
17:33:27 <tcn> http://www.tunes.org/cgi-bin/TunesWiki
17:33:37 <TheBlueWizard> only that you can go all over the place in a controlled manner
17:33:42 <adu> http://www.duke.edu/~jbl2/jaws/presentation/tsld001.htm
17:34:44 <adu> hm, this is cli/serv model
17:35:14 * TheBlueWizard nods
17:35:39 <TheBlueWizard> at least it seems to be an attractive idea for start....
17:35:40 <adu> ooo its free tho
17:35:57 <adu> and it says you can modify it and use it as an example
17:36:01 <adu> oooooooooo
17:36:03 <adu> niiice
17:36:33 <tcn> it's better to do this stuff locally in the same room
17:36:44 <TheBlueWizard> can rip Wiki to suit this need? hmmm....
17:37:26 <TheBlueWizard> yeah....and with IRC-like protocol we can op someone, whatever...the possibilities seem pretty rich...
17:37:54 <tcn> seems like there's actually less group-hacking than there was 20 years ago..
17:38:17 <adu> i'm talking about JAWS
17:38:21 <adu> whatas wiki?
17:38:35 <adu> tcn: lets change that
17:38:47 <TheBlueWizard> the main idea is to reduce the need for the rigid assignment of code changings to someone...like checking in/out whatever...and it would be done in a more bazaar style
17:39:22 <adu> i like that, kinda like real-time cvs
17:39:22 <TheBlueWizard> group-hacking...that's a great phrase I am looking for :)
17:40:39 <adu> tbw: what if it was a peer-to-peer model with the actually file in 1 location?
17:40:50 <TheBlueWizard> then there will be real incentive to go to irc.openprojects.org just to hack and talk at time time....and lurk in other channels and watch others hacking the code away...should be a blast
17:42:03 <TheBlueWizard> asu: yeah, we may need to centralize the location of the file....maybe have the channel check the code back into CVS upon last (opped) nick's exit
17:42:20 <TheBlueWizard> ack...s/asu/adu/
17:42:20 <adu> what if it used bbs?
17:42:23 <tcn> hehe.. how about we all just move to the same town?
17:42:23 <adu> hehe
17:42:32 * TheBlueWizard laughs
17:42:33 <adu> ya
17:42:46 <adu> in who's dreams......
17:42:48 <TheBlueWizard> I'm trying to come up with something new, tcn :)
17:42:51 <tcn> this town sucks
17:43:05 <adu> if we do this we won't havto move?
17:43:22 <adu> tbw: i really think a very general protocol is what is needed
17:43:22 <tcn> i wouldn't mind moving
17:43:24 * TheBlueWizard grins
17:43:37 <adu> s/?//
17:43:49 <adu> sorry
17:43:59 <adu> lets make a protocol
17:44:00 <TheBlueWizard> you could move to Tahiti and collaborate with someone in Bahamas ;)   of course there is some security considerations....
17:44:13 <adu> hahahahaha
17:44:47 <adu> what other protocols are peer to peer?
17:44:56 <adu> telnet?
17:44:57 <TheBlueWizard> or move to, what is that little oil rig platform near Great Britain?
17:45:00 <tcn> what about SMTP?
17:45:09 <adu> Mail?
17:45:15 <tcn> heh
17:45:20 <adu> is that fast enought?
17:45:20 <TheBlueWizard> SMTP may be too slow for real time communication
17:45:40 <adu> but thats an example of a peer2peer model isn't it?
17:45:51 <adu> or are there smtp servers....
17:45:59 <adu> geez EVERYTHING's a server.....
17:46:02 <tcn> i can't chat over irc and program at the same time anyway
17:46:18 <adu> brb
17:46:19 <TheBlueWizard> SMTP is almost P2P, yeah...but it requires some mail server along the way
17:46:31 <tcn> i'd just hack on something and then send it over to you
17:46:42 <tcn> "here check this out"
17:46:43 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...that's partly why P2P is so hard to code up
17:47:11 <TheBlueWizard> it isn't same....oh well....
17:47:50 <adu> is it possible to make it similar to freenet?
17:47:56 <adu> thats cli/srv too....
17:48:12 --- part: Fare left #forth
17:48:18 * TheBlueWizard doesn't know enough about Freenet
17:48:31 <TheBlueWizard> heh...we drove Fare batty :)
17:48:58 <adu> freenet/mojonation are attempts to replicate napster and replace the web with decentralized storage management
17:49:15 <adu> mojonation = $
17:49:17 <TheBlueWizard> ah...gotcha
17:49:19 <adu> freenet = free
17:49:48 <adu> the key tho is Decentralized
17:50:04 <adu> its not stored at one place
17:50:13 * TheBlueWizard nods
17:50:24 <tcn>  and never goes away?
17:50:26 <adu> and everything in the system has a "key" and thats how you get to it, not its physical location on some server
17:50:29 <TheBlueWizard> of course there has to be some mirroring mechanism....
17:50:40 <adu> almost never
17:50:55 <TheBlueWizard> almost never what?
17:50:58 <adu> there are freenet servers and there are freenet clients
17:51:30 <adu> there is no way of deleting them, but theres a particular mechanism in freenet that deletes things that don't get accessed
17:51:51 * TheBlueWizard rereads, and realizes that files almost never go away
17:51:54 <adu> so if its accessed alot, then yes, never
17:52:01 <tcn> freenet's supposed to make censorship/control difficult
17:52:25 <adu> the freenet server allocates a certain amount of your HD to belong to the freenet network
17:52:30 <adu> tcn: exactly
17:52:33 <TheBlueWizard> we need to screw China etc. with Freenet and the like ;)
17:52:43 <tcn> haha
17:52:48 <adu> i think its at freenet.sourceforge.net
17:52:56 <adu> it used to be the most active proj
17:53:18 <adu> this is funny
17:53:42 <adu> mecause i just had a near nervous breakdown over not having anything to do, and thats why i have to coding experience......
17:54:16 <adu> i need coding experience to know how to code, and in order to code i need experience, its a hard egg to lay
17:54:33 <adu> maybe i need to become a chicken, or do i need to be an egg first....
17:54:39 <adu> :P
17:54:57 <adu> tbw: you realy want to do this?
17:55:03 <adu> :)
17:55:59 <TheBlueWizard> dunno....it'd be a lot of work and a lot of thinking....and I don't have much time...but the idea is so appealing....I just toss it there to see what you make of this
17:56:25 <TheBlueWizard> adu would certainly benefit from seeing a pro coding stuff in real time
17:56:38 <TheBlueWizard> and to have fun hehe
17:56:55 <adu> lets do a really quick hack then
17:57:22 <adu> what shell util can make changes to a file, is it only cvs?
17:57:34 <TheBlueWizard> of course I will have to figure out how IRC works and then figure out how to hack it :)
17:57:47 <adu> is it possible to just directly appent the CVS changes file?
17:57:53 * TheBlueWizard hrms....
17:57:56 <adu> or is that not how it works...
17:58:08 <TheBlueWizard> I admit I have no experience with CVS.....so....
17:58:24 <adu> i'll do some reasearching into irc/cvs
17:58:26 <TheBlueWizard> though I do have lots of experience with programming
17:58:37 <adu> i'm good at reasearching, just not applying
17:58:43 <TheBlueWizard> take your time....no rush here
17:58:58 <adu> but i love research
17:58:59 <tcn> well... i'm gonna change careers :)
17:59:06 <adu> cya
17:59:08 * TheBlueWizard hmms....
17:59:18 <TheBlueWizard> change career?
17:59:27 <adu> me?
17:59:34 <adu> what are you?
17:59:38 <adu> a programmer?
17:59:39 <tcn> i wonder if I even want to continue this as a hobby..
17:59:56 <adu> o are you doubting yourself?
18:00:15 * TheBlueWizard is confused....
18:00:19 <tcn> i'm just sick of it
18:00:29 <adu> o careeeeers
18:00:39 <adu> damn i thought that said clients
18:00:49 <adu> i must have reeeeeeeeeeeeely bad eyesight
18:01:16 <TheBlueWizard> heh
18:01:25 <tcn> that's because you sit at the 'puter too much :)
18:01:31 <tcn> like me :))
18:01:48 <TheBlueWizard> tcn: oh I now see...you loathe Win stuff...me too here....but have to find a new job first :(
18:02:45 <tcn> i don't know if i could enjoy programming under ANY platform, as a job
18:03:40 <TheBlueWizard> that depends...if you have a burning vision and a passion, programming can be a blast...otherwise it is hell
18:05:03 <tcn> not as far as business computing is concerned
18:05:17 <TheBlueWizard> heh
18:05:33 <TheBlueWizard> well, I need to go...eat then go to bed.....
18:05:36 <TheBlueWizard> bye!
18:05:39 <tcn> see fa
18:05:44 <tcn> yyy
18:05:48 <tcn> :)
18:05:53 <TheBlueWizard> :)
18:05:56 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth
18:05:57 <adu> yup
18:06:04 <adu> damn
18:06:10 <adu> i didn't know he was leaving
18:06:12 <tcn> you too? 
18:06:45 <tcn> heh.. fiddling has taken over my life :)
18:06:47 <adu> i think programming under any cercumstances would be fun, if i could do it...
18:07:56 <tcn> it's gotten so all I need is a fiddle, to hell with the puter :)
18:08:14 <adu> you serious?
18:09:19 <tcn> yeah, I just don't care about hacking like I used to
18:09:43 <adu> well, do what you're heart tells you.
18:10:02 <tcn> i don't know yet..
18:10:26 <adu> but i can't tell you what to do thats for sure, sometimes you haveto listen to your wallet
18:10:54 <tcn> but I know I could drop off the face of the earth and my code would still be on the web..
18:11:39 <tcn> if anyone wants it
18:11:57 <tcn> if i want it, down the road..
18:16:23 <adu> hmm
18:16:28 <adu> you sound depressed
18:17:03 <tcn> dadad
18:17:05 <tcn> haha
18:17:29 <adu> hm
18:17:35 <tcn> well
18:18:04 <adu> ru?
18:18:09 <tcn> once I'm not working as a programmer I may have more energy for it
18:19:31 <tcn> i got a mind to just drop it for awhile
18:19:58 <adu> dats cool
18:20:04 <adu> its good to take breaks
18:20:06 <tcn> too many little projects :)
18:20:10 <adu> ya
18:20:48 <adu> what kind of little project?
18:20:56 <adu> i wish i could find a little project
18:21:06 <adu> i can't even get my internet working in linux
18:21:44 <tcn> that's cause you didn't start 10-20 years ago when things were simple
18:23:30 <adu> hmm
18:23:33 <adu> ya
18:23:41 <adu> tooo many ways of doing things nowadays
18:24:12 <adu> cable/adsl/dialup/dish etc
18:24:38 <adu> would the world be wierd if everyone used onle 1 kind?
18:24:39 <tcn> there was no internet when I started, just arpa
18:24:46 <adu> arpa?
18:26:06 <tcn> it was just the .edu's and .mil's then.
18:26:20 <adu> oic
18:26:28 <tcn> so i didn't concern myself with it
18:26:51 <tcn> well.. i did a little 'hacking' in the early 90's
18:27:17 <adu> i've never really 'hacked'
18:27:19 <tcn> internet, telenet..
18:27:39 <adu> i just play with stuff and see what it does....
18:27:46 <tcn> heh.. i bet you've neven heard of a wardialer
18:27:55 <adu> i've learned alot about linux that way
18:28:06 <adu> nope
18:28:19 <adu> but i've heard of satan, and nmap
18:28:22 <tcn> we used to dial up all the numbers say, from 777-0000 to 777-9999
18:28:34 <adu> hahaha
18:28:34 <tcn> looking for modems
18:28:39 <adu> wow
18:28:51 <tcn> all night every night
18:28:53 <adu> must have been alot of pissed people
18:28:58 <tcn> hahahahahhahaha
18:29:05 <tcn> you bet
18:29:20 <adu> hello? hello? hmm honey? who'd you give out number out too?
18:29:32 <tcn> once I dialed a -1911 number
18:29:44 <tcn> "911 may I help you?"
18:29:46 <adu> oops, what happened?
18:30:02 <adu> isn't that supposed to be at the beginning?
18:30:10 <adu> hmm
18:30:15 <tcn> and it hung up before I could grab the phone and say "oops wrong #!!!!"
18:30:47 <adu> did the police come?
18:31:20 <tcn> no, it was only the target university's 911.. not the 'real' 911
18:32:05 <tcn> i wasn't so sure though, so I put away all my incriminating stuff and went to bed :)
18:32:27 <adu> hehe
18:32:48 <tcn> "dammit we're trying to sleep here, no we didn't call 911"
18:33:07 <adu> ya
18:33:20 --- join: Soapforge (flop@210-55-83-105.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth
18:34:02 <tcn> ahh man, i know it's "against the hacker ethic" but it was fun!
18:34:23 <adu> i understand
18:34:37 <tcn> but i'm kinda old for that now..
18:35:25 <tcn> and you can't do it from your own home anymore, too easy to trace now.
18:36:56 <tcn> you'd have to use a laptop.. tap into a line and hide in the bushes or something..
18:37:15 <adu> hehe
18:37:43 <adu> and its not numbers anymore, now its lans and cable networks
18:37:55 <tcn> heh.. some people are doing it.. lesse in I can find something on the web..
18:39:13 <tcn> oh there's definitely a place for modems still.. and I bet a lotta places are leaving the doors wide open
18:39:38 <tcn> M$ to blame for that
18:44:25 <tcn> hhaah
18:44:50 * aaronl is away: dinner
18:45:09 <tcn> advisory: "all 4 sites still using token ring should apply this patch"
18:45:16 <tcn> hahah
18:48:39 <tcn> later, adu..
18:48:46 --- quit: tcn (Client Exiting)
18:52:28 --- part: adu left #forth
19:58:47 --- quit: Soapforge (Reality calls :( .)
20:13:34 --- quit: aaronl (Read error to aaronl[vitelus.com]: EOF from client)
20:13:38 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth
20:31:20 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.60) joined #forth
20:42:08 * aaronl is away: movie
21:17:32 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth
21:23:00 <adu> hello edrx
21:23:06 <adu> hi aaronl
21:23:13 <adu> yo ult
21:23:18 <adu> wuzup clog?
21:28:49 --- quit: ult (Leaving)
21:28:57 --- join: ult (ult@149.149.201.30) joined #forth
21:42:46 <edrx> adu: hi adu. Still there?
22:00:50 <adu> yup
22:00:52 <adu> now i amn
22:00:54 <adu> am
22:01:10 <edrx> hi then :)
22:01:21 <adu> hi
22:02:13 <edrx> I have finished a prototype of my Forth-like langauge based on Tcl and Nasm, wanna try it? It's non-interactive now, so trying it will be very wuick :)
22:04:22 <adu> woooah
22:04:24 <adu> cool 
22:04:30 <adu> asure
22:05:57 <edrx> just a minute, I'll prepare a tgz
22:12:11 <edrx> warning: it will do everything in a temp dir, /tmp/crim1a IIRC
22:13:16 <adu> o ok
22:17:08 <adu> it won't compile
22:17:28 <edrx> oops, what's the message?
22:18:26 <edrx> I'm using you to check if the thing runs in other machines, and I haven't been too careful to check if all needed files are there...
22:18:40 <adu> usage: rm [-dfiPRrW] file ...
22:18:41 <adu> make: *** [crim1a-demos] Error 1
22:19:23 <edrx> oops, you're in bsd?
22:19:26 <adu> yup
22:19:33 <adu> bsd....
22:19:35 <adu> o well
22:19:41 <edrx> hm, you need to change come lines in the makefile
22:19:53 <adu> s/come/some/?
22:19:59 <edrx> the are some "rm"s just in the beginning that use GNU options
22:20:03 <adu> o ok
22:20:05 <edrx> yes, s/come/some/
22:22:31 <adu> i don't have tclsh
22:22:43 <adu> doesn't that just blow it?
22:22:45 <adu> hmm
22:22:50 <edrx> tclsh8.2, then?
22:24:02 <adu> no
22:25:06 <edrx> better forget it, then... it needs tcl to build the C file and the nasm file that are then linked together
22:25:11 <edrx> :(
22:26:19 <adu> ya
22:26:27 <adu> i also don't have nasm
22:26:38 <edrx> :)
22:26:45 <adu> i could switch to linux and see if it'd work, but then i have no inet in linux
22:27:00 <edrx> I have no inet in my BSD partition
22:27:05 <adu> hehe
22:27:13 <adu> dual-boot?
22:27:16 <edrx> and my alt keys don't work in console
22:27:19 <adu> or tripple?
22:27:21 <adu> :)
22:27:25 <edrx> Linux/FreeBSD/Hurd
22:27:27 <edrx> and you?
22:27:30 <adu> Hurd?
22:27:32 <adu> ia64?
22:27:35 <edrx> yep
22:27:40 <adu> WOW
22:27:42 <edrx> no no, i386
22:27:55 <adu> MacOS/MacOSXbeta/Linux
22:28:00 <edrx> Hurd is just for i386s right now
22:28:11 <adu> o i thought it was for ia64
22:28:26 <adu> i want to try hurd
22:28:32 <adu> but i can't
22:28:39 <adu> maybe i could help port it to ppc
22:28:42 <adu> :)
22:28:43 <edrx> yeah...
22:28:51 <adu> that'd be a good project
22:28:58 <edrx> I don't think it would be easy to port...
22:29:09 <adu> undoubtedly...
22:29:12 <adu> for sure
22:29:37 <edrx> and it's very difficult to port something you haven't ever run.
22:29:45 <edrx> Like colorforth for me :)
22:31:45 <adu> hmm
22:31:58 <adu> i'm thinking of getting a really crappy intel machine
22:32:08 <edrx> but I've got one working on dosemu...
22:32:22 <adu> colorforth?
22:32:27 <edrx> yes
22:32:54 <adu> isn't actually a whole different syntax because the color spaces replace the : and create?
22:33:14 <edrx> yes
22:33:44 <edrx> and the structure is all made to make this as efficient as possible
22:33:45 <adu> i was thinking once of making a whole new kind of forth that was a mixture of lisp too, and had ( words to mean something else
22:35:23 <adu> i lost my hotmail account
22:35:29 <adu> THOSE FUCKERS!
22:35:40 * adu is very sad and pissed
22:36:03 <edrx> adu: I'm now writing a Forth that will call C and Lua (and maybe also Tcl) very easily
22:36:29 <adu> lua? isn't that a language library?
22:37:51 <edrx> it is an extension laanguage, "Tcl done right" as someone said
22:38:25 <adu> o ic
22:38:51 <edrx> it is in the ports collection of freebsd
22:39:26 <adu> cool
22:39:31 <adu> i'm feeling very bad
22:39:36 <edrx> why?
22:39:44 <adu> i called my girlfriend and she hung up
22:39:57 <adu> i'm going to wait until tomorrow to call back
22:40:17 <adu> she sounded like she was waking up
22:40:29 * adu is just sad now, not pissed anymore
22:40:40 <edrx> I have split with mine for the 10000000th time
22:49:32 <edrx> bye, I'm gonna do some studying+programming+sleeping.
22:49:42 <edrx> Take care.
22:49:42 --- part: edrx left #forth
22:52:00 --- quit: adu (BitchX-75p1 -- just do it.)
23:19:42 --- join: JohanRussouw (jrus@ndf-dial-196-30-124-95.mweb.co.za) joined #forth
23:19:59 <JohanRussouw> ult
23:20:07 <JohanRussouw> aaronl
23:20:32 <aaronl> clog
23:21:31 <JohanRussouw> hi aaronl
23:21:39 <JohanRussouw> how r u?
23:21:46 <aaronl> fine
23:22:12 <JohanRussouw> the recent i called your is that some irc client beeps when i gets the persons name
23:23:05 <JohanRussouw> what r u doing?
23:23:43 <ult> i am decent
23:23:45 <JohanRussouw> why does time not work 4 u
23:24:01 <JohanRussouw> hi ult
23:24:57 <JohanRussouw> ult sup?
23:25:23 --- quit: ult ([x]chat)
23:26:12 <JohanRussouw> aaronl i am john4jesus but my offend people so i change it to my name
23:26:25 --- join: ult (ult@149.149.201.30) joined #forth
23:26:33 <aaronl> hehehe you offend people
23:26:40 <JohanRussouw> but my nick offended
23:26:54 <JohanRussouw> yes i do
23:27:18 <aaronl> how?
23:27:48 <JohanRussouw> sorry about that version
23:28:00 <JohanRussouw> i wanna to run it on ult
23:28:14 <JohanRussouw> by asking them 2 many questions
23:29:29 <JohanRussouw> aaronl can u do a dcc chat?
23:29:56 <ult> run what on ult?
23:30:22 <JohanRussouw> a version
23:30:35 <JohanRussouw> like /ctcp version ult
23:30:51 <ult> oh
23:31:00 <ult> i am trying out xchat
23:32:21 <JohanRussouw> then why does your client not answer a version request
23:32:35 <JohanRussouw> i have kvirc on my drake 7.2
23:32:43 <JohanRussouw> and also xchat
23:32:51 <JohanRussouw> i have used both
23:35:35 <JohanRussouw> r u busy ult
23:35:42 <ult> yes
23:36:06 <JohanRussouw> k c u later take care
23:36:44 * ult is away: Stuff...
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/01.02.03