00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.01.31
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00:40:57 * aaronl_ is away: night
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15:52:00 <adu> hi all
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16:13:32 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
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16:32:28 <TheBlueWizard> hiya edrx
16:33:50 <edrx> hi! What's up?
16:34:45 <TheBlueWizard> reading /. .... lurking on #debian, #forth, and #progeny :)
16:36:20 <edrx> :)
16:36:59 <edrx> I now have a decent version of my Forth-like language (based in Tcl and Nasm) working
16:37:21 <TheBlueWizard> ah....I vaguely remember you telling me your project heh
16:37:31 <TheBlueWizard> congrats :)
16:38:26 <edrx> :) next time there will be a nice tgz of it and then I'll ask you if you want to test it. It is rather trivial, though.
16:38:56 <TheBlueWizard> um...does tcl require GUI on Debian Linux?
16:39:48 <adu> hi there
16:40:11 <adu> i'm trying to compile emacs for OSX
16:40:19 <TheBlueWizard> hiya adu
16:41:11 <edrx> TheBlueWizard: no. Are you a console user? (I am)
16:41:22 <edrx> hi adu
16:41:34 <adu> hi tbw
16:41:39 <adu> hi edrx
16:43:01 <TheBlueWizard> edrx: yes...I don't have GUI (Gnome) on it....plan to install it when woody becomes stable
16:43:36 <TheBlueWizard> good....I suppose I'd just apt-get install tcl prior to trying out your pgm (I already have NASM)
16:43:57 <edrx> TheBlueWizard: which IRC client are you using? I only use X for IRC and netscape (and for xdvi)
16:45:13 <TheBlueWizard> ah...on Debian Linux I use BitchX (though I don't like the interface; thinking about hacking up some IRC client in Python...but too many other things call out for my attention, so... :)
16:47:52 <edrx> TheBlueWizard: what are you using now? (I forgot the command - was it a ctcp variant? - to check the IRC client of another user...)
16:48:37 <TheBlueWizard> ah...mIRC hehe
16:48:58 <edrx> :):
16:49:33 <TheBlueWizard> yeah...I also use the browser to view various stuff as well...Moz isn't quite there yet
16:49:51 <TheBlueWizard> and Debian is, um, something of a slowpoke :-]
16:50:25 <edrx> TheBlueWizard: in terms of adding packages, you mean?
16:51:25 <TheBlueWizard> that, and compared with other distro (it is kind of lagged....hopefully woody would make it much more up to date)
16:54:07 <edrx> at least it works... I haven't tested any distros beside Debian and RH lately, but the quality of RH made me be very happy with a good distro that lags behind
16:54:45 <TheBlueWizard> I agree...Debian definitely rox...I never have used RH tho.....tho I've heard some horror stories....
16:55:43 <edrx> brb
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17:04:46 <TheBlueWizard> rello
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17:52:20 <adu> rhei
17:52:24 <adu> back from email
17:52:29 <TheBlueWizard> heh
17:53:28 <TheBlueWizard> um....gotta go...bye all!
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18:00:34 <adu> by
18:00:35 <adu> e
18:07:18 <adu> hi all
18:07:21 <adu> hello
18:07:31 <adu> i'm having a blast talking to the wall
18:07:43 <adu> what exactly is ThisForth?
18:08:13 <adu> is it like an implementation of ANS Forth?
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19:15:30 <Talia`> =)
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19:23:33 <adu> hey all
19:23:57 <adu> anyone here a real big BrainFsck coder?
19:32:26 * adu is still looking for the right language
19:35:25 <Talia`> not I, said the cat
19:35:45 <Talia`> sorry :P
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19:52:40 * Talia` shoots Apple
20:02:05 <adu> whats wrong with apple?
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20:13:27 <Talia`> oh, for releasing a sub-standard operating system (e.g. Mac OS 9)
20:16:50 <adu> o ya
20:16:59 <adu> trust me i understand completly
20:17:20 <adu> hey version me i wonder what it says
20:18:22 <adu> i'm actually in OSX now, but i'm using a Client in Classic Box
20:27:59 <adu> what did it say?
20:27:59 <Talia`> it says MacOS 9.0
20:28:05 <adu> hmm interesting
20:28:14 <Talia`> which makes sense
20:28:16 <Talia`> I suppose
20:28:16 <adu> it must take the client to say that then
20:28:27 * adu didn't put that right
20:28:30 <aaronl_> hahahah what is classic box?
20:28:42 <adu> aaronl_: thats what MacOS9 progs run in
20:28:54 <adu> and you don't haveto reboot
20:29:14 <aaronl_> hahahah, is it a virtual machine?
20:29:28 <adu> it basically maps active quickdraw regions that aren't the desktop to Window regions in OSX
20:29:28 <Talia`> it's basically a form of backwards compatibility that essentially opens a version of mac os prior to 10 (X), and allows you to run older programs
20:29:32 <aaronl_> so it eats up all your ram...
20:29:40 <aaronl_> i'm a brainfuck coder
20:29:45 <adu> aaronl_: ya, alot of it
20:29:53 <adu> aaronl_: relaly? :)
20:30:05 <aaronl_> yes
20:30:09 <Talia`> yeah....the classic versions of mac os were ram hogs as it was
20:30:17 <Talia`> combined with x, I am sure it is next to a disaster
20:30:22 <adu> aaronl_: ya you haveto have OS9 istalled on another drive
20:30:31 <aaronl_> Talia`: yep. 7.0 was ok, 7.5 was crazy
20:30:38 <aaronl_> Talia`: and 8* is unacceptable
20:30:40 <Talia`> yeah...7.5 went out of control
20:30:45 <adu> i've got 160mb of ram tho
20:30:46 <Talia`> hah...9 is forgettable
20:30:46 <Talia`> =)
20:30:49 <Talia`> not too shabby
20:31:01 <aaronl_> Memory: 255780k/262080k available (858k kernel code, 5912k reserved, 296k data, 184k init, 0k highmem)
20:31:13 <adu> i started hating it in 8.5
20:31:16 <Talia`> os 9 is quite crashy
20:31:18 <Talia`> it drives me nuts
20:31:23 <aaronl_> 858k is not bad for an OS much more powerful than macos 9 :)
20:31:25 <Talia`> my SE/30 still runs 7.1
20:31:27 <adu> cuz 8.0 was lots of improvements imho
20:31:28 <aaronl_> mmm
20:31:32 <Talia`> even though it has 80M and plentiful disk space
20:31:34 <aaronl_> i used to run 7.1 on my SE/30
20:31:54 <aaronl_> i have a quadra right here running 7.5
20:31:58 <aaronl_> but i'm pissed at it
20:32:01 <aaronl_> it's an LC040
20:32:02 <Talia`> 8.0 and 8.1 were cool actually
20:32:03 <aaronl_> wont run any unix
20:32:04 <adu> i used to run everything fine on a 66MHz w/ 8mb ram with 200mb HD
20:32:12 <Talia`> aaron: I believe it
20:32:15 <adu> but then things got huge
20:32:15 <Talia`> not even A/UX?
20:32:22 <aaronl_> Talia`: Not even A/UX. I checked.
20:32:23 <Talia`> adu: a Performa?>
20:32:29 <Talia`> aaron: jeez!
20:32:33 <adu> its like the computer industry it getting an erection
20:32:35 <aaronl_> Talia`: Perhaps it would run MachTen, but that's under macos
20:32:43 <Talia`> yeah...doesn't help much =)
20:32:47 <aaronl_> heh
20:33:02 <Talia`> hell, you could Minix on a mac plus
20:33:09 <aaronl_> really?
20:33:09 <aaronl_> cool
20:33:13 <Talia`> but also requires mac os
20:33:14 <adu> i never got MacMinix working
20:33:29 <Talia`> really?
20:33:43 <Talia`> no real problems here, at least from what I could tell
20:33:46 <aaronl_> i've checked netbsd, linux, and a/ux, they all refuse to work with the broken fpu
20:33:50 <aaronl_> Talia`: you ran minix?
20:33:52 <Talia`> but then again, after I got it running I didn't toy with it much
20:34:08 <adu> i'm really into hacking OSX
20:34:11 <Talia`> aaron: broken, or just plain missing?
20:34:28 <adu> right now i'm rev-engineering Quartz
20:34:36 <aaronl_> Talia`: It's the 68LC040. It has some severe FPU bugs that make it non-functional IIRC
20:34:37 <Talia`> adu: neat! to be honest, I am still in the process of learning programming for the mac
20:34:45 <aaronl_> I want to learn 68k assembly
20:34:46 <adu> i've gotten a general guideline of how the libraries are linked
20:34:50 <aaronl_> But I can't find a suitable platform
20:34:53 <Talia`> aaron: why can't you replace it with a full fledged 68040?
20:35:05 <aaronl_> Talia`: Becuase it's soldered to the logic board
20:35:20 <Talia`> why not desolder it? make it into a "project"? =)
20:35:20 <aaronl_> Talia`: Maybe I could find a NuBus card somewhere...
20:35:25 <aaronl_> hehe
20:35:26 <adu> 68k asm isn't that cool. its similar to x86 in some ways
20:35:42 <aaronl_> adu: got any reccomendations?
20:35:58 <Talia`> well, I have to relearn 68K as well
20:36:00 <adu> i have a little trouble with programming tho... I do TONS of reading but not much writing
20:36:05 <adu> aaronl_: for what?
20:36:06 <Talia`> I have a mess of machines that use it
20:36:10 <Talia`> that I would love to tinker with
20:36:11 <aaronl_> adu: learning assembly
20:36:12 <adu> aaronl_: i like ppc
20:36:29 <Talia`> ppc seems quite nice
20:36:31 <aaronl_> adu: Hmm. There are a few G3's/7200's around here
20:36:33 <adu> aaronl_: mips i hear is the best non-intel thing... among sparc and alpha
20:36:35 <aaronl_> but it's a RISC assembly
20:36:38 <aaronl_> which scares  me
20:36:41 <Talia`> haha =)
20:36:54 <Talia`> I always wanted a MIPS machine of some worth
20:37:04 <aaronl_> ooh
20:37:07 <Talia`> probably don't have time to learn that and everything else I wanted to do, however
20:37:08 <aaronl_> my friend has an indy
20:37:18 <adu> risc = get into on how helping instructions are implemented in xor/and/not
20:37:24 <adu> info
20:37:44 <aaronl_> it was $5k in its day, now it's a pretty worthless 133mhz piece of junk with 8bit video
20:37:53 <aaronl_> still packs quite a punch with 3d though
20:38:10 <adu> cool
20:38:11 <Talia`> I'd imagine
20:38:19 <Talia`> as for pieces of junk...I run a lot of those here
20:38:21 <Talia`> so, no problem
20:38:33 <aaronl_> I wouldn't mind getting an indy like that :)
20:38:34 <Talia`> except my most people's standards, my stuff really IS junk =)
20:38:44 <Talia`> my = by
20:38:45 <aaronl_> they have very impressive assembly-optimized X servers
20:38:52 <adu> aaronl_: i admit i did minor 68k asm thinks when i had an LC][, mostly recovering from crashes MacOS would get me into :/
20:39:00 <adu> things
20:39:08 <Talia`> neat
20:39:12 <aaronl_> Talia`: what do you have?
20:39:23 <adu> Talia`: do you know much about mips?
20:39:52 <Talia`> aaron: my sawtooth 350 (my "good machine"), Macintosh SE/30 w/80M RAM and four external hard drives, Macintosh Plus, and a Kaypro 2X
20:39:59 <Talia`> and a mess of old synthesizers
20:40:02 <aaronl_> me = a quadra, old pentiums missing parts, a broken slot 1 motherboard and case, several semi-functional scsi disks, and whatever spare parts you would expect
20:40:18 <Talia`> adu: no, I am afraid I don't know anything =)
20:40:39 <aaronl_> just looking at my floor tells you a lot...
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20:40:47 <Talia`> oh yeah, I have that AMD K6/2 300 I tried to put together several times and got burned several times with bad parts, mistakes, etc.
20:41:04 <aaronl_> 13" apple hi-res color monitor, Heath tone generator
20:41:09 <Talia`> neat
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20:41:21 <aaronl_> spare video cards
20:41:30 <Talia`> I still use the SE/30 and the Plus as much as I do my sawtooth
20:41:33 <aaronl_> oh, i also have about 10 ethercards :)
20:41:37 <Talia`> and the Kaypro is my travel terminal, now...
20:41:37 <aaronl_> really? for music?
20:41:41 <Talia`> yes
20:41:59 <aaronl_> wow, those don't even have 44khz
20:42:08 <Talia`> true, but they don't need it
20:42:30 <Talia`> my sawtooth handles all audio editing (except for sound design on the Emulator II) and MIDI traffic routing
20:42:32 <aaronl_> i guess
20:43:06 <aaronl_> i desprately need a MIDI keyboard
20:43:07 <Talia`> and the SE/30 and the Plus are for various odds and ends...such as synthesizer editors, music programming languages (e.g. HMSL), MIDI diagnostics, etc.
20:43:13 <aaronl_> my little brother broke the last one
20:43:18 <Talia`> ouch, what kind?
20:43:37 <aaronl_> a cheap crapo "Miracle piano-learning software" thing
20:43:49 <aaronl_> was pretty useless, didnt have the standard midi instruments
20:43:58 <Talia`> so, the SE/30 and the Plus are basically components in the entire setup...as opposed to isolated computers
20:44:12 <adu> i'm gonna go
20:44:16 <Talia`> oh yeah, the SE/30 with its abundance of hard disks and ethernet is my file server, so I can share files between computers easily without floppies =)
20:44:18 <adu> just getting a bit sleepy
20:44:23 <Talia`> not a problem, adu
20:44:23 <adu> bye bye
20:44:25 <Talia`> please take care
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20:44:45 <aaronl_> Talia`: I have a nice 350mhz file server with 115GB on IDE disks, 3 ethercards...
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20:46:22 <goshawk`> sorry about that
20:46:24 <goshawk`> missed the last thing you had said
20:46:52 <goshawk`> I have a Kurzweil Midiboard and an Emulator II+
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20:47:05 <goshawk`> the latter being a bit crude as a controller keyboard
20:47:14 <goshawk`> it is an ancient sampler, though...so that is kind of expected =)
20:48:00 <goshawk`> I was surprised to see some of those Casio home keyboards to have pretty solid MIDI capabilities
20:48:21 <aaronl_> <aaronl_> Talia`: I have a nice 350mhz file server with 115GB on IDE disks, 3 ethercards...
20:48:23 <goshawk`> they wouldn't be that bad, particularly if you used direct software synthesis stuff anyway
20:48:30 <goshawk`> wow
20:48:36 <goshawk`> makes my file server look well...like junk =)
20:48:51 <aaronl_> hmm
20:48:54 <goshawk`> it serves only a handful of machines...all my own...so it doesn't need speed or a lot of space
20:49:04 <goshawk`> just four external hard drives....3.8G =)
20:49:19 <aaronl_> i have Finale, but i also need a keyboard and a brain
20:49:20 <goshawk`> two internal drives on the SE/30, but those are just for the system and the applications (no data)
20:49:27 <goshawk`> haha
20:49:35 <goshawk`> ditto on the latter
20:49:43 <aaronl_> hda: 25450992 sectors (13031 MB) w/512KiB Cache, CHS=25249/16/63, UDMA(33)
20:49:43 <aaronl_> hdc: 160086528 sectors (81964 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=158816/16/63, UDMA(33)
20:49:43 <aaronl_> hdd: 40020624 sectors (20491 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=39703/16/63, UDMA(33)
20:49:53 <aaronl_> drives are so cheap now
20:49:55 <goshawk`> I have a really old version of MOTU Professional Composer
20:49:59 <aaronl_> hdc was $260
20:50:03 <goshawk`> cute
20:50:43 <goshawk`> my sawtooth, which isn't running with SCSI yet (I hope to change that), has a 10G and a 45G IDE disk
20:50:58 <goshawk`> the 45G was 180 a few months ago
20:51:06 <goshawk`> wasn't great....but not too bad
20:51:51 <aaronl_> 9GB 10kRPM Ultra2 SCSI here
20:53:56 <goshawk`> neat =)
20:54:13 <goshawk`> yeah, I will get around to a ultra-wide setup one of these days when I have some cash to burn
20:54:21 <goshawk`> I need my MOTU audio and MIDI interfaces first
20:54:23 <goshawk`> which are mad expensive
20:54:28 <goshawk`> but really are fantastic
20:54:43 <goshawk`> I figure I ought to get the SCSI card now
20:54:50 <goshawk`> and then buy the drives later when the prices dwindle a bit
20:55:12 <goshawk`> that way, there will be no problem with getting an interface to work with my machine
20:55:16 <goshawk`> interface = card
20:55:38 <goshawk`> then I can kind of take my time
20:55:38 <goshawk`> not sure if this is sound judgement
20:55:42 <goshawk`> what would you do?
20:55:58 <aaronl_> um
20:56:43 <aaronl_> i don't think it really matters much :)
20:56:52 <aaronl_> later is probably better in the long run
20:57:50 <goshawk`> I just am not sure if I could find a SCSI interface card say a year or two from now for my ailing mac os 9.X system
20:58:08 <goshawk`> the drives aren't an issue
20:58:09 <aaronl_> oh
20:58:25 <aaronl_> sorry, can't help much with that issue
20:58:43 <goshawk`> I don't want to upgrade to Mac OS X, at least not at this time, so getting the "critical" stuff out of the way to keep my niche secure is kind of important
20:59:02 <goshawk`> so, I figured getting the card would get that end out of the way
20:59:24 <goshawk`> I will be back shortly
20:59:28 <goshawk`> have a few things I have to do
20:59:30 <goshawk`> my apologies :P
21:00:09 <aaronl_> bye
21:01:38 <goshawk`> =)
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21:16:27 <ree> hey forthers =)
21:17:30 --- join: rev (revaaron@campusparkmn.com) joined #forth
21:17:38 <ree> heh
21:17:40 <ree> rev and ree
21:17:52 <rev> hola
21:17:52 <ree> kinda confusing
21:18:07 <ree> cute, "revaaron"
21:18:32 <rev> heh.  ordained minister of the universal life churc of modesto, CA since I was 16. :)
21:19:05 <ree> hehe
21:19:13 <ree> quite the difference from me =)
21:19:34 <aaronl_> reev
21:19:37 <rev> how is that?
21:20:10 <ree> just not part of any religious background
21:20:57 <rev> heh.  i'm officially agnostic, or as i call it the only scientific religion.
21:20:58 <ree> rather, not background, but faith 
21:21:19 <ree> yeah, agnostic *neutralism* =)
21:21:32 <ree> same here in a way
21:21:56 <rev> i'm kind of "don't careism"
21:21:59 <ree> I believe anything is possible
21:21:59 <ree> I just believe I haven't seen that anything yet =)
21:22:16 <ree> ahh, it makes for a rather interesting study
21:22:24 <rev> not that i'm atheist and piosly believe that i don't "need" religion as some people think, but it juts doesn't concern me at this point of my life.
21:22:26 <rev> totally.  
21:22:34 <ree> so it doesn't really fall under a don't careism for me
21:22:38 <ree> but I don't follow it 
21:22:45 <rev> i think there's a chance there is something, but have no way of telling at this point.
21:23:16 <ree> yeah
21:23:23 <ree> well, I'll be back in a short bit
21:23:27 <ree> talk to you later hopefully =)
21:24:21 <rev> i'll be around somewhere. later.
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22:43:27 * aaronl_ is away: depressed
22:46:14 <ree> heh
22:47:33 <ree> aren't we all
23:30:04 <aaronl_> no
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