00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.01.29 00:12:17 :PP 00:12:18 --- quit: adu (BitchX-75p1 -- just do it.) 01:36:08 --- quit: aaronl_ (The name's X. Bitch X.) 07:14:40 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp70-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 07:24:23 --- quit: Fare (Connection reset by pear) 13:01:41 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp70-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 13:22:03 --- join: Fare_ (fare@ABoulogne-102-1-4-208.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 13:22:06 --- quit: Fare (Connection reset by pear) 13:22:21 --- nick: Fare_ -> Fare 14:57:33 --- quit: Fare (Ping timeout for Fare[ABoulogne-102-1-4-208.abo.wanadoo.fr]) 16:10:37 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 19:41:46 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@206-136.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth 20:34:13 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-118.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 20:34:20 hi Talia 20:37:00 hi arronl 20:52:51 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.69) joined #forth 20:56:04 hi edrx 20:56:56 hi! How are you doing? 20:57:07 How do adu? :) (soory for the bad joke) 21:03:44 hi 21:03:48 how are you doing! 21:03:52 how are you doing! 21:03:58 wuzaaaaaaaaaah! 21:04:08 wussaaah! 21:04:33 o hehe 21:04:34 ic 21:04:37 adu fine 21:05:14 how udu? 21:05:28 adu = abbrv. 4 andydude 21:05:33 (btw) 21:05:43 :) 21:05:58 whassssah! 21:06:02 edrx = abbrv for EDuaRdo oX 21:06:11 i.e, Ochs 21:06:27 edward? 21:06:32 or is that spannish? 21:07:14 portuguese - I'm Brazilian. 21:08:13 what's your thing with Forth? Which OS/distro do you use, and what Forth (if any?) 21:20:22 gforth/linux & pforth/macos 21:20:35 i have a tripple boot system, the third is OSX 21:30:03 I used a lot of pforth, even wrote some extensions to it 21:30:20 gforth is somewhat mysterious to me, however... 21:31:03 I would like to see a nasmification of the bytecode to understand how it works 21:31:06 really??!? 21:31:08 cool 21:31:14 yep 21:31:29 well, we're working on isforth in here 21:31:41 how is it going? 21:31:46 so if you want isforth to be able to nasmify bc then help 21:31:49 good 21:32:00 our first goal is to get a compiler working 21:32:08 then to write isforth in itself 21:32:12 bc? 21:32:16 bytecode 21:32:22 ah, ok 21:32:24 you said it yurself 21:33:13 is there any running demo? One could code "Hello world, the cube of 5 is 125" in bc by hand without a compiler 21:34:31 I440r is still working on getting it to compile 21:34:37 I'm writing a variation of Forth that won't have a compiler anytime soon, I will produce bytecodes for it using Tcl and nasm for some time - it has some weirdnesses and I can't find a good syntax for it 21:34:58 can't find a good syntax? 21:35:00 hmm 21:35:13 which assembler is he using? Nasm? 21:35:34 gas 21:36:03 yes, no good syntax because each word can have many "heads" 21:36:06 but i'm not using isforth sources, i'm porting it to PowerPC, and nasm, hasn't been ported to ppc, but gas HAS, so.... 21:36:50 i might try and get nasm to compile 21:37:02 i might haveto write a backend for it tho..... 21:37:19 i know ppc VERY well 21:37:36 much reverse-engineering has been done.. >:) 21:38:57 hm, good... I don't know much assembly for i386s, I was fluent in the 8086 times 21:40:16 it would be nice to have dynamic loading for isforth to let it load libc functions. I can work on that when I have some spare time... I just learned how to compile crt*.o from the sources in glibc... 21:40:51 http://angg.twu.net/e/anatocc.e.html 21:41:38 edrx: i have a feeling that you shouldn't mention that to I440r 21:41:55 ture, I know him :) 21:41:59 s/ture/true/ 21:42:42 he's so obcessed with pure assembly that I'm very surprised that he actually got some collaborators 21:43:47 adu: do you understand ELF? 21:44:26 i've looked at it before 21:44:36 (but to be honest I would rather spend time porting some colorforth to *nix with curses) 21:44:42 i understand mac binformats more, because there aren't any disasm tools for them 21:45:18 adu: really? gdb/bfd aren't able to disasm them? 21:45:40 they are PEF for MacOS and Mach-O for MacOSX 21:45:48 oops, sorry, you're talking about non *nix 21:45:53 ya 21:46:00 Macintosh binformats 21:46:19 i'm really into Mac disasm 21:46:35 i'm trying to learn how OSX is built 21:47:04 Darwin os OSS, so i just got the sources, but the WindowManager (Quartz) is what i'm after 21:47:39 the 'Window Manager' proccess is always taking up lots of CPU time, and i've disasmed it, and its not that much code 21:47:50 how much? 21:47:53 it must use pdf libs or something 21:48:11 like 140 lines of asm 21:48:27 wow, really short 21:48:34 it references the dyld (dynamic linker) 21:48:47 so the dyld might hook it up with lots of libs 21:49:13 erdx: you know much about OSX? 21:49:50 adu: nothing, I only own an i386 box and I almost never touch other machines 21:50:14 and haven't touch a non-free OS seriously in years 21:50:27 s/touch/touched/ 21:52:27 your only box is a ppc or do you have two? 21:54:03 just a ppc 21:54:18 hm 21:54:26 but i can emulate x86 isforth if i wanted to, i just am too lazy to get bochs to work 21:55:18 me too, but I would to have a running bochs 21:57:20 s/to/like to/ 21:58:49 hmm 21:58:51 you have ppc? 21:59:28 o you only have x86, sorry 21:59:30 didn't read 21:59:39 non-free OS, like win? 22:00:14 yeah, I never used windows 22:00:51 I stopped using DOS (switched to Linux) when W$ 3.1 was starting to be popular :) 22:01:18 o you HAVEN'T touch a non-free OS 22:01:27 too many negatives in that sentance, sorry 22:01:33 i thought you were on a windows machine 22:01:54 erdx: so you've been using linux awhile now :) 22:02:02 yap 22:02:42 and I think it doesn't keep up with its promises. In particular, it is too difficult to hack 22:03:40 not really 22:03:47 some people who are too proud to be "the elite" took the control. Linus is very arrogant behind that smile. Alan cox is just crazy. 22:03:48 i think its much easier to hack than win/mac 22:04:13 sure, but almost impossible to hack if you compare with a Forth box 22:04:39 you've toched a forth box? 22:04:53 like PDP? 22:05:01 and I'm quite sure that the kernel of Linux is much more obscure than the ones of BSDs 22:05:14 I didn't even know that PDP was forthish... 22:05:18 ya, the more i read about bsd the more i like 22:05:33 i wanna switch to freebsd or openbsd if possible 22:06:12 the Hurd is much more interesting, but it still have many important things missing 22:07:07 ooo ya 22:07:10 i know 22:07:15 i want hurd so bad 22:07:41 edrx: missing? like ports to diff cpus? 22:07:48 unfortunately I will still take a while before we have Hurd for the ppc 22:08:07 adu: yes, and more control of the text console and keyboard 22:08:19 hmm 22:08:52 the main reason why I am not using it much is not being able to set the keytable I want (but maybe that's because of lack of knowledge) and not being able to switch the text mode to 80x50 22:08:54 i hear its kinda similar to QNX, it uses mach as the uKernel and lots of servers around it 22:09:28 yes, but I dind't knew qnx was like that. qnx is very small, hurd not so 22:10:09 o 22:10:27 qnx has a tiny microkernel, and has everything else in user space 22:10:55 things that are usually built-in or mods in the linux kernel, are user-space daemons in qnx 22:11:01 if there is such a thing 22:11:50 speaking of PDPs... have you tried some PDP emulator? 22:12:53 nope 22:14:26 I'm now much more interested in emulators that run in text mode, because I learned to automate sequences of keystorkes in progs that use stdin/stdout using Expect 22:14:36 want an example? 22:17:56 sure 22:18:19 it is heavy stuff, but at least it is very commented: http://angg.twu.net/e/emacs.e.html#emacs21-gdb_1 22:18:26 o emacs 22:18:27 ? 22:18:36 o? 22:18:39 i'm new to emacs, but i really am trying to get into it 22:18:50 very difficult 22:19:09 I think I can give you some very good hints... 22:19:14 i get confused saving files and switching buffers, but other than that i'm fine 22:19:22 i know its C-x b 22:19:32 but i still can't tell which one i'm in 22:19:37 and sometimes it doesn't work 22:19:57 so i keep pressing C-g to check if i accedentally did some command 22:20:27 then it switches to the scratch and everything else dissapears, and then i think i loose it 22:20:32 its all very confusing 22:21:35 I wrote almost acccidentally an emacs package that will save the world 22:22:01 almost accidentaly? 22:22:16 o did you write that ee hack? 22:23:02 which one? I need a more precise qestion to be able to answer :) 22:23:15 there are many ee hacks? 22:23:31 the hyperlinking in emacs 22:23:31 I wrote eev thinking that everybody was doing like that 22:23:54 i think you told me about it once 22:24:03 have i talked with you before in #emacs? 22:24:31 it's the same thing, only the source of eev.el got a bit cleaner :) 22:24:41 yes, I think we have talked 22:24:51 don't remember what 22:24:56 your nick seems familiar 22:25:08 anyway 22:25:18 adu 22:25:29 oops, i just wanted to see how easy typing my nick was 22:25:42 edrx is kinda hard 22:27:45 it's easy if you type with two fingers like me :) 22:27:58 i suppose if you use two hands 22:28:04 I like it being strange 22:28:10 hehe 22:28:18 its nice and short tho 22:28:29 edrxfbycrgts would be bad 22:29:04 edrxfbycrgts: so wuzup? 22:33:32 fbycrgts? 22:37:25 jk 22:37:46 is it tru that you can't redefine words or forth? 22:41:14 : foo 1 . ; : bar foo ; : foo 2 . ; foo -> 2 22:41:20 bar -> 1 22:42:17 you can, and all new calls will use the new def, but the old one will still be there, and the words that point to their old address will continue to use the old def 22:42:28 interesting 22:42:42 --- part: aaronl left #forth 22:42:59 cool 22:49:59 uh oh 22:50:04 ? 22:50:07 lilo 22:50:21 light monitoring... i guess thats ok 22:50:28 hey, have you take a look at http://angg.twu.net/README.html ? 22:50:36 s/take/taken/ 22:55:28 adu: bye 23:00:15 --- part: edrx left #forth 23:04:05 sorry i just mised you 23:16:49 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp70-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 23:24:33 --- topic: set to 'http://isforth.sourceforge.net -- http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/isforth/?cvsroot=isforth' by ChanServ 23:29:58 --- nick: Fare -> FareAway 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/01.01.29