00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.01.20 00:01:44 :) 00:04:20 dudde 00:04:39 i'm too much of an enthusiest 00:04:43 hehe 00:04:47 no such thing 00:04:53 o btw 00:04:58 i'm in MacOSX now 00:05:11 :) 00:05:13 i needed to use the sort utility 00:05:23 i think MacOSX has "as" 00:08:50 awsome! it does! 00:08:54 :) 00:08:59 i gtg zzz dood.. 00:09:01 its 3 am now 00:09:04 im up at 8 :P 00:09:04 hmm you wanted nasm didn't you 00:09:06 :( 00:09:09 k 00:09:11 night 00:09:30 hehe u could maybe compile nasm for it ? 00:09:35 neway nite dood :) 00:09:44 nite dude 00:09:44 oh 00:09:45 erm 00:09:53 you dont need to use nasm on YOUR machine! 00:09:59 ok 00:10:01 i just realised what u were getting at 00:10:12 but as and gas are evil 00:10:15 once i learn asm with 'as' then i'll look into nasm 00:10:21 see if you can find a REAL asembler 00:10:24 l440r: i'll keep that in mind 00:10:29 :) 00:10:35 ;( 00:10:41 ;) rather 00:10:42 your sources dont even need to be 100% identical to mine 00:10:49 ya 00:10:52 if there is a better way to do an operation on yrou processor i want you to sue it 00:10:54 use 00:11:00 thats why there are different versions 00:11:00 sue! 00:11:02 hahahahaha 00:11:06 each processor used to the max!!! 00:11:08 BUT 00:11:22 application code compiled should work identicaly on each version of isforht 00:11:22 hwh 00:11:25 just keep THAT in mind 00:11:26 newy 00:11:29 nite ppl :) 00:11:37 nite 00:11:57 yes 00:12:03 scratch that 00:19:14 --- part: adu left #forth 00:55:33 --- quit: aaronl (direct rendering...) 01:38:00 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-194.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 01:44:55 dudes 02:56:21 --- part: adu left #forth 06:07:28 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp83-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 09:13:44 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-88-194.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 09:13:48 yo 09:23:45 --- nick: adu -> adu-breakfast 09:27:23 argh wheres tcn :P 09:36:25 --- nick: adu-breakfast -> adu 09:37:08 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o adu 09:37:10 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Fare 09:37:41 hi 09:37:47 um 09:37:48 :) 09:38:01 do you know what the kernel calls are in asm? 09:38:12 like where to find a listing of them? 09:38:26 and std io... 09:39:02 hehe well the only real reference is the man pages 09:39:06 man 2 function 09:39:08 ok 09:39:11 like man 2 read 09:39:13 man 2 wrie 09:39:16 man 2 select 09:39:21 why the 2? 09:39:36 do u still have the url i gave u for nasm, theres info on syscalls in tehre i believe 09:39:38 well 09:39:41 ya 09:39:46 o cool 09:39:53 if you asy man read you get eh stdlib man page for read 09:40:05 if you say man 2 read you get the SYSCALL man page for read 09:40:11 do a web search for syscall 09:40:28 tehre are alot of good(ish) dox out there 09:41:14 ok 09:53:12 well i found a good one on linuxi386 09:53:16 thats good enough 09:53:36 it wasn't actually very specific, but i have what i need to know 09:53:59 whats the procedure for including stdio? 09:57:00 in isforth 09:57:13 ;dont #include stdio.h 09:57:15 eheh 10:02:21 how is io done then? 10:02:43 this has been my main trouble with asm 10:03:00 i found an 'asm coding standards' doc 10:03:01 with syscalls 10:03:03 ONLY 10:03:10 tahts a prime directive for isforth 10:03:21 no libraries to be used in the kernel at all 10:03:25 but how do you talk to a terminal with syscalls? 10:03:29 EVERYTHING is to be done in syscalls 10:03:34 write 10:03:35 read 10:03:37 etc 10:03:42 to terminal? 10:03:48 o /dev/tty? 10:03:49 the sources you have dont have key or ?key in them 10:03:54 yet 10:03:59 yet? 10:04:07 i have tcn's sources here but i want HIM to check them into cvs 10:04:11 after fixing some stuff :) 10:04:22 ok 10:04:29 how do you write to terminal? 10:04:43 isn't read/write to disk? 10:04:45 by opening it 10:04:51 how? 10:04:55 read/write is to ANYTHING 10:04:56 to a socket 10:05:00 to a file 10:05:02 to a terminal 10:05:07 ok 10:05:13 everything in unix is a file basically 10:05:18 is it in /dev/tty or something? 10:05:24 possibly 10:05:30 tho that mite not be the only way 10:05:38 ok 10:07:41 awsome it worked 10:07:48 hehe 10:07:53 cat ~/test.txt > /dev/tty 10:07:59 heheh 10:08:04 yea i know that works :P 10:08:10 just seeing what i have to work with 10:08:36 how long have you been using unix? 10:09:46 using it for 3 years about 10:09:52 but not coding for it... 10:10:00 only just started to learn to code in linux 10:10:57 cool 10:11:11 i've been using linux for about a year now 10:11:15 :) 10:11:25 a convert from mac, that was a big change 10:11:29 what window manager do you use ? 10:11:40 usually sawfish 10:11:44 :) 10:11:47 ive never used it 10:11:50 its kinda new isnt it ? 10:11:50 but before i loaded linuxppc i used icewm 10:11:52 i use windowmaker 10:11:59 ya its kinda new 10:12:05 i never liked windowmaker much 10:12:11 i love it 10:12:21 it was too NeXT 10:12:29 its simple, not slow, not fat and is easilly configurable 10:12:31 i never liked next 10:12:37 or cde 10:12:38 or kde 10:12:43 i didn't like the titlebar 10:12:48 or gnome (puke) 10:12:51 i dont like KDE either 10:12:57 gnome isn't bad 10:13:12 guh 10:13:16 gnome is shit hehehe 10:13:20 i'm thinking of basing a windowing system on gnome 10:13:22 it looks too much like windows :P 10:13:27 and it falls over just as often :P 10:13:31 looks are deceiving 10:13:41 i dont like the concept 10:13:45 i never liked the task bar 10:13:58 of object-oriented desktop & development tools? 10:14:00 just ONE menu with alot of sub menus... 10:14:02 that sux 10:14:13 <--- click here to start (bleh) 10:14:17 hahaha 10:14:20 never liked it hehe 10:14:29 ya 10:14:33 and i dont like icons all over the desktop 10:14:41 even in windows i dont have scattered icons 10:14:42 ii don't use icons 10:14:55 i have 0 icons on the desktop 10:15:03 i like the way windowmaker uses the icons for both alunching and for display 10:15:05 thats neat 10:15:09 dockable icons are cool.. 10:15:15 doesn't WM have tons of icons all over? 10:15:17 i dock different apps on different desktops 10:15:21 no 10:15:29 down the side or accross the top.. 10:15:32 it has a dock 10:15:37 u dock things on the left 10:15:48 and a clip which is like the dock except 10:15:48 interesting 10:15:58 i've used WM before 10:15:58 the icons are on the dock for every desktop 10:16:02 i know what the clip is 10:16:07 i just never liked it 10:16:08 onm the clip each desktop has its own icons 10:16:21 the clip is moveable 10:16:25 i know 10:16:34 and you can dock to ANYEHERE next to it 10:16:40 above, left, right eetc 10:16:42 ya 10:16:49 or anywhere next to anything already docked to it 10:16:51 i know its just kinda wierd 10:17:06 takes getting used to but its a realy neat feature once you do 10:17:16 i wrote a dock app hehe 10:17:21 cool 10:17:30 i found that it was really hard to customize 10:17:38 and none of the icons worked in it 10:17:51 and the windows looked ugly, so i switched 10:17:57 :) 10:18:04 each to their own 10:20:23 hmm 10:21:20 --- topic: set to 'work resumed on isforth project - tcn added as developer (bongo wake up :)idea@!!heh' by I440r 10:21:27 --- topic: set to '' by I440r 10:21:29 yea 10:21:43 damned xchat keeps putting my cursor in the TOPIC when i want to talk in here 10:21:51 stupid thing 10:23:45 hey 10:23:56 why don't you want to write it in c? 10:24:15 it could be written in C without any includes... 10:24:49 because c is horrid 10:25:13 i will not have ANYTHING to do with ANY forth written in such a crippled/crippling language 10:25:20 forht is written in FORTH and asm 10:25:21 not c 10:27:00 ok 10:27:12 i HATE c 10:27:15 with a passion 10:27:22 me2, but thats no reason not to use it 10:27:25 well 10:27:27 maybe it is 10:27:29 i would never (*&%(675 up forth by writing it in that language 10:27:50 hehehe 10:27:59 lets write it in lisp 10:28:00 hahahah 10:28:48 basic ???? 10:28:51 :) 10:28:59 ya maybe 10:29:03 I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10:29:08 B A S H ! ! ! 10:30:45 why not? 10:30:47 hahaha 10:31:18 :) 10:31:26 i was gona write a forth interpreter in bash 10:31:30 why not JavaScript! 10:31:43 i was going to write AI in perl 10:32:08 and i was thinking of writing a test eliza program in awk 10:32:17 man that was tough 10:34:05 DAMN 10:34:27 i'm suprized how many exports there are in a simple helloworld C program... 10:38:46 abrb 10:39:53 arb? 10:39:54 brb? 10:39:56 hmm 10:49:44 sorry had fone :) 10:50:35 sdats ok 10:52:56 i'm still trying to do a hello world program in asm 10:53:01 its not working 10:55:46 :) 10:55:51 i gtg take a shower :) 10:55:54 i stink :P 10:57:10 ok 11:05:06 i'm reading the isforth hompage 11:13:22 its in need of alot of work 11:13:34 but i want ever kernel word FULLY described there 11:14:29 i'm starting to get the idea 11:14:46 i think i'll try making on version for linux 11:14:49 and one for OSX 11:15:01 but we haveto work on the interface 11:15:13 you said that forth code should run unmodified 11:15:33 thats means that you can't add processor-specific features 11:15:41 erm yes you can 11:15:46 in the kernel i want you to 11:15:53 but no proc-spec words right? 11:15:59 thers no saying you have to have ONLY those definitions i have 11:16:13 well actually 11:16:15 thats not rite 11:16:17 scratch that hehe 11:16:26 because code written for you wont work here hehe 11:16:30 but use the processor 11:16:30 why don't we do kinda a ASN forth like thing 11:16:37 isforth CORE words 11:16:41 erm because i dont like asn 11:16:42 yes 11:16:43 and processor EXT words 11:16:51 thats waht i want to do now 11:16:56 cool 11:17:02 lets document it 11:17:12 do you know if theres a system were people can edit docs online? 11:17:20 CVS only for TEXT? 11:18:07 ANS not asn 11:18:08 ? 11:18:16 hmmm 11:18:17 dunno 11:18:27 like how can we like co operatively document it? 11:18:41 usenet? 11:18:43 hmm 11:19:26 i wish i had a cube then i could try out the AltiVec instructions 11:20:28 which ANS ext were you thinking of including? 11:22:56 i dont like ans at all 11:23:06 i hate what they are doing to forth 11:23:15 all their word names ar e fucked up big time 11:23:25 do you think like forth's creator? 11:23:43 what kind of forth do YOU want? 11:23:55 :) 11:24:06 i like chuck hehe 11:24:08 hang on 11:24:09 brb 11:48:15 back 11:48:20 where IS tcn!!! 11:48:55 huh? 11:50:05 so i read the site 11:50:07 very good 11:50:42 hehe needs work :P 11:50:47 its ok 11:50:48 for now 11:55:43 hmm 11:55:52 nasm isn't working in osx 11:56:15 i guess osx isn't posix-complient 11:56:17 hehehe 11:57:29 ? 11:57:33 oh 11:57:34 heeh 11:58:06 MacOSX comes with 'cc' 11:58:46 and 'as' 11:59:31 is macros that one with the #def x 1 #def y x #def x 2 ? 12:00:30 hello 12:00:46 ? 12:00:57 dunno 12:01:08 nasm 12:01:15 nasm has that bug 12:01:24 except the extended (unofficial) version 12:01:37 hmm 12:17:09 hey 12:17:15 you might want to check out 12:17:17 http://home.snafu.de/phpr/lhpf8.html 12:17:24 lib4th 12:19:48 i have lib4th 12:19:57 i even email the author :) 12:20:08 but isforth WONT be using ANYONE elses LIBS :P 12:20:54 im prejudiced against em all 12:21:24 im not going to prevent the USERS from linking their APPLICATION code to any libs 12:21:37 the kernel wont use any tho 12:22:13 hehe 12:22:15 this is cool 12:22:20 i just found the perfect site 12:22:21 http://www.lightsoft.co.uk/Fantasm/Beginners/begin1.html 12:23:12 looking :) 12:23:27 bookmarked taht one :) 12:23:48 yup 13:07:27 --- join: bogus (bogus@213.45.135.253) joined #forth 13:07:37 hello 13:08:05 --- part: bogus left #forth 13:19:06 --- join: bogus (bogus@213.45.135.253) joined #forth 13:19:26 --- part: bogus left #forth 13:44:28 --- join: junkie_ (spark@p24-max2.christchurch.netaccess.net.nz) joined #forth 13:50:46 --- nick: junkie_ -> junkie 13:54:38 boom 14:08:23 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout for I440r[purplecoder.com]) 14:56:14 --- quit: junkie (bbl) 15:10:53 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 15:13:38 hi 15:15:26 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ppp-250.u1-h2.dca.fcc.net) joined #forth 15:15:27 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard 15:15:30 hiya all 15:15:37 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o aaronl 15:16:04 hi 15:16:18 hiya adu 15:16:19 this is the channel: #forth 15:16:31 I know .... 15:16:39 yey 15:16:44 ...... 15:18:29 so anything new? 15:18:51 not from me....just evaluating various software today :) 15:19:53 ic 15:20:07 i'm trying to start on an asm project 15:20:21 i'm trying to get it to write to the terminal 15:20:59 learning asm programming? 15:21:32 ya 15:21:34 its tuf 15:21:53 there aren't much docs on ppc unix syscalls 15:22:00 it isn't too bad....I like to write asm codes :) 15:22:02 x86 has plenty of documentation 15:22:14 asm codes? 15:22:25 like F648B3A1 15:22:31 yeah....and I used to code 6502, 680x0, z80, and few others :) 15:22:44 or mov ebx,[eax] 15:22:59 z80? i want a z80 15:23:12 68k ain't bad either 15:23:53 someone once planned getting 1,000 z80's on one motherboard and building a really cheap super computer 15:23:54 asm code is short for assembly code....machine code is just all number....I wouldn't deal with that, unless the assembler doesn't support certain code, then I'd hand assemble that into few numbers...useful for exotic testings 15:24:19 hehehe 15:24:20 ya 15:24:23 1000 z80s? that's rather, um, crazy :) 15:24:36 i deal alot with machine code 15:24:49 i'm disassembling MacOSX 15:25:18 you're disassembling PowerPC codes, eh? 15:25:39 ya 15:25:44 its not that hard 15:26:37 kewl 15:26:49 because VLIW theres this small section (6-bits) that have the real instruction... 15:26:57 * TheBlueWizard never have worked with PowerPC stuff, though he has the doc on PowerPC stuff 15:27:00 and everything else is kinda like a parameter 15:27:09 * TheBlueWizard nods 15:27:12 ppc instructions are all 32-bits long 15:27:29 PowerPC does look rather similar to Alpha in many ways hehe 15:27:39 instead of intel/ 68k where you never know how long it is until you get to the instruction 15:27:45 * TheBlueWizard never have worked with Alpha stuff either 15:27:45 i think it is 15:27:54 i want a mips 15:28:08 i hear mips is a little better than sparc/alpha 15:28:37 you will have to decode the prefix bytes then opcode, then r/mmod, if any, in order to determine the total length.... 15:28:46 ya 15:28:53 i don't like intel bytecodes 15:29:00 * TheBlueWizard doesn't knows much about MIPS 15:29:07 * adu doesn't either 15:30:03 Intel codes has its pluses and minuses...pluses: compact, widely used...minuses: register-starved, atrocious addressing (it got better in 386s and up), .... 15:31:23 ya 15:31:37 hey goto ff, i want to show you my code... 15:31:51 ff? 15:32:10 #ff? 15:33:24 * TheBlueWizard is now in #ff 16:23:15 got to eat....bbl! 16:23:19 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 17:23:15 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@216.25.203.155) joined #forth 17:23:15 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard 17:23:23 hiya all 17:30:12 --- quit: Fare (Ping timeout for Fare[ppp83-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net]) 17:30:14 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp83-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 17:30:25 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o Fare 17:35:01 hey 17:35:14 hiya adu 17:36:07 --- quit: Fare (changing servers) 17:36:09 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp83-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 17:36:23 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o Fare 17:48:59 heya 17:49:09 i'm still hacking away on it 17:49:22 hacking on MacOS? 17:51:05 no OSX's bsd-like sys calls 17:51:22 ah 17:58:37 i can't figure out how to get a filehandle 17:59:22