00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.01.18 01:15:04 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 01:17:48 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 01:52:27 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout for I440r[purplecoder.com]) 01:56:20 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 02:43:22 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 02:43:22 --- log: stopped forth/01.01.18 02:43:42 --- log: started forth/01.01.18 02:43:42 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 02:43:42 --- names: list (clog @aaronl I440r) 02:43:42 --- names: EOL 04:01:57 --- quit: aaronl (barnes.openprojects.net bradbury.openprojects.net) 04:02:03 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 04:02:03 --- mode: tolkien.openprojects.net set mode: +o aaronl 04:02:40 --- quit: aaronl (barnes.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net) 04:02:42 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 04:02:42 --- mode: pohl.openprojects.net set mode: +o aaronl 11:08:38 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o I440r 11:08:41 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o clog 11:08:59 --- topic: set to 'work resumed on isforth project - tcn added as developer' by I440r 12:03:33 --- quit: aaronl (pohl.openprojects.net card.openprojects.net) 12:03:50 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 12:03:50 --- mode: adams.openprojects.net set mode: +o aaronl 12:06:29 --- join: adu (andrew@adsl-63-201-89-104.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 12:06:31 hi 12:06:37 hows everything going? 12:08:58 hi! 12:09:00 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o adu 12:09:06 hi! 12:09:09 waiting for tcn to get back :) 12:09:12 oic 12:09:18 cool 12:09:24 hows your compiler going? 12:09:30 he made some changes to isforth last nite and i need them to start doing my shit heh 12:12:22 whats isforth? 12:12:41 l440r: cool, so you're doing your shit now? 12:12:43 thats good 12:12:53 hehe 12:13:01 isforth is my linux forth im writing :P 12:14:14 awsome 12:14:29 linux/bsd ehh 12:14:38 did you say you were writing a GUI/Tk mod for it? 12:14:44 well 12:14:55 ill write x stuff as an extention eventually for sure 12:15:21 l440r: would it be easy to incorperate it into something like libggi? 12:15:40 erm 12:15:41 i'm thinking of writing a window manager for xggi 12:15:46 dont know :) 12:16:19 because libggi works with svgalib,SDL,fbdev,X,Mesa, and more 12:16:36 it simplifies configureing display programs 12:17:42 people are always bicthing about configureing X, and journalists, say Unix will only bring itself into the desktop if they try to distance from X Win... 12:18:12 xggi is a ggi-simplified X 12:18:26 its all very cool 12:18:46 i'm thinking of trying to add wrappers for GTK+ so all gnome apps will work on it 12:19:40 hello? 12:24:16 sorry was getting coffee hehe 12:24:18 reading 12:24:29 cool 12:24:46 except gnome apps are sucky... gnome sucks :P 12:24:50 gtk doesnt suck 12:24:55 gnome does :P heh 13:29:20 hi, back from breakfast 13:29:41 l440r: gnome doesn't suck 13:29:46 its the nextgen unix 13:37:48 l440r: whatchya got against gnome? i admit gnome-apps are much more bloated, but thats what comes with OOPS 13:38:24 i wish there was a really great, low-level operating system 13:38:42 one that worked great on 300MB hard drives 13:39:17 i used to only have a 300MB hard drive, and i was overjoyed when i got one thaT was 6GB, but i wonder how i got along with 300... 13:39:35 the truth seems to be that you don't really need that much space 13:41:39 gnome is a piece of shit imho 13:41:48 o ok that explains alot 13:41:49 if i wanted a box to look like windows i would instal windows 13:42:00 if i wanted a box to fall over like windows does 13:42:06 i would install windows 13:42:24 but gnome isn't just windows redone 13:42:52 i know 13:43:07 but it still looks like shit and keeps falling over on me 13:43:10 so i fucked it off 13:43:16 even if it was stable i wouldnt use it 13:43:22 it LOOKS like shit 13:43:34 windowmaker is an order of magnitude better 13:43:48 if gnome ws nextgen it would be the official gnu window manager 13:43:49 its not 13:43:55 its the official redhat window manager 13:43:58 which says alot for it 13:44:08 windowmaker is the official gnu window manager and it rox 13:48:43 i think gnome isn't the only answer 13:48:52 but corba seems to be really promising 13:49:34 is wm really official? 14:12:33 yes 14:12:34 it is 14:12:44 go to www.windowmaker.org 14:13:01 Window Maker is now an official part of the GNU Project. 14:56:22 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp62-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 14:58:42 hi fare 14:58:43 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o Fare 15:21:54 --- quit: adu (BitchX-75p1 -- just do it.) 15:49:05 hi, I440r 16:27:42 --- join: SoapForge (flop@210-55-149-21.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 16:36:49 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@216.25.205.196) joined #forth 16:36:49 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o TheBlueWizard 16:36:54 hiya all 16:36:58 'ello 16:37:06 hiya SoapForge 16:38:29 * TheBlueWizard is pleased to see the work resumed on IsForth 16:39:32 --- join: tcn (tcn@207.198.30.81) joined #forth 16:39:59 hiya tcn 16:40:04 hey 16:40:04 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +o tcn 16:40:51 tcn: bet you are pleased as punch that you're now a developer, eh? :) 16:41:14 hehe 16:41:18 --- join: Qryptyx (a00039@l195.nwm.dial.mindlink.net) joined #forth 16:41:21 I'll be pleased as punch if it means Retro gets finished sometime :| 16:41:30 Retro? 16:41:37 hiya Qryptyx 16:41:43 hi all 16:41:46 whoooptie-fucking-do :) 16:42:12 lol 16:43:12 yeah, isforth will have a positive impact on retro.. 16:45:04 kewl website :) 16:45:38 Just how positive? Sooner isforth is up and running = sooner the new retro is up and running? 16:46:40 learning experience.. 16:47:43 yeah...one have to know how to use CVS, keep track of new developer notes, etc. 16:47:51 and it'll encourage me to write stuff in forth, when I'm working in unix.. 16:49:19 * TheBlueWizard nods 16:51:15 say i'm writing a mail client.. why use retro? :) 16:52:31 --- part: Qryptyx left #forth 16:54:35 hmm, i think i'll shorten it to Retro Forth 16:55:23 aeu 17:01:22 --- quit: Fare (May the LAMBDA be with you! (apply (lambda (x) (format t "~x" x)) '(3053))) 17:03:10 dammit, i got spam today 17:03:57 I'm guessing from the "dammit" you're not talking about the kind you eat. 17:04:22 that's just as bad! 17:05:41 I travelled for 36km with only spam to eat once. Of course, my chief motivation for doing the walking was to get someplace where I didn't have to eat spam. 17:06:28 where's that? australia? 17:06:57 New Zealand. It's like Australia, but with more sheep and less Australians. 17:08:37 shoulda bagged a sheep :) 17:10:58 lol 17:15:42 hey, i think i can get isforth running in winblows too 17:18:21 tcn: think so? you'd likely have to modify all words that deals with kernel syscalls to use the equiv....but the upside....theoretically could let you create your apps without a need for C compiler or whatever....not bad....but you'd have to know Winblows's exec format, etc... :-/ 17:18:35 hehe.. i could be kicked off the project for saying that :) 17:19:57 ha ha ha....you better plead "ignorance" to I440r just to save your lil butts ;) 17:20:03 the syscalls are almost as good as unix.. and way better than linux 17:20:55 huh? *NIX/Linux use syscalls....actually, INT 80h stuff.... 17:21:48 win32 uses the stack for syscalls, like unix 17:22:19 I guess they're actually DLL calls 17:22:56 hmm....I never have program any low level garbage in win32 hehe 17:23:18 I looked at some win32 asm stuff today.. console stuff ain't too bad 17:24:11 gui stuff is a bitch.. but I found enough examples to go by 17:24:27 * TheBlueWizard nods 17:24:58 IF i ever need it :) 17:24:59 I understand that win32's low level (not MFC) gui calls are darn tricky to work with 17:25:50 look at Aztec forth sometime, if you wanna see it done well 17:26:54 I remember you mentioned that once before, and I recalled asking for its URL, yadda yadda....I recall it is acommercial Forth product 17:28:27 anyways.. I wouldn't add win32 compatiblity to the IsForth code.. i'd split off a separate win32 version. Just the core stuff. And i'd make it compatible with the *nix version 17:29:35 sounds reasonavble enough....win32 is just too ornery to make it "in sync" with the 'official' IsForth version 17:31:14 linux + bsd is enough :) 17:31:53 hehe...yeah, that's quite enough :) 17:32:17 first, make IsForth fly....and sing a bit, perhaps ;) 17:33:37 any more than that, and we'd have to split off INCLUDE files, instead of %if's.. then it'd become less manageable.. 17:34:38 * TheBlueWizard nods 17:35:05 it'd become messy real fast 17:36:24 this particular code will never run on anything but a 386+ anyway, and that means: *bsd, linux, win32, beos, retro, and dos-x 17:36:52 not a lot of targets 17:37:02 dos-x? what's that? 17:39:30 dos extender :) 17:41:38 damn.. he's got EMIT vectored _twice_ 17:42:26 ah...DMPI, XMM (IIRC), and the like, right? 17:42:42 EMIT vectored twice? why?! 17:43:43 that's what i'm saying 17:44:07 defer is an abused word :) 17:45:18 * TheBlueWizard is an old-timer Forth, and never really learn the full semantics of DEFER hehe 17:45:46 me neither :) 17:46:14 ha ha ha :) 17:47:11 i think this is for redirection.. but i'd just put the file# in a variable 17:48:01 u wanna redirect, u open a file and stick it's # in the var 17:48:28 then . emit type etc. go there 17:50:12 hehe.. i'm gonna scrap i440r's I/O stuff 17:50:39 nothing uses these damn words 17:50:46 hehe....wondering how I440r would react to your scrapping of his I/O stuff :) 17:52:49 if it works... 17:52:53 :) 17:53:06 heh 17:54:38 * SoapForge pokes i440r 17:54:51 i440r: Away (wing chun - back in 2 hours) ... Idle (2 hours 55 minutes 10 seconds) 17:54:55 Perform as advertised! 17:55:02 heh 18:01:24 i see a lotta garbage in here... 18:01:41 query AND expect??? 18:02:10 /string??? 18:02:19 what garbage? 18:02:56 if it ain't part of the compiler, why put it in the kernel? 18:03:38 at least, not if you're writing it in NASM.. 18:03:38 * TheBlueWizard thinks query is pretty standard Forth....expect...he believes it is a standard also, but isn't sure..../string....now that's new.... 18:04:34 heh.. he didn't comment it AT ALL 18:05:26 hehe....beware, I440r is "here" and he can read all comments you've made ;) 18:05:41 of course :) 18:06:06 I oughta quit ragging on him though :) 18:06:24 ha ha ha 18:06:55 at least it is nice to hear differing opinions....keep things sort of exciting ;) 18:07:33 --- quit: tcn (zsoldos.openprojects.net merril.openprojects.net) 18:07:39 --- join: tcn (tcn@207.198.30.81) joined #forth 18:07:39 --- mode: hogan.openprojects.net set mode: +o tcn 18:08:41 --- quit: tcn (hogan.openprojects.net herbert.openprojects.net) 18:09:02 --- join: tcn (tcn@207.198.30.81) joined #forth 18:09:02 --- mode: herbert.openprojects.net set mode: +o tcn 18:13:40 back? 18:15:32 * TheBlueWizard hrms 18:15:45 tcn! 18:15:46 hi dood 18:15:49 hehe...looks like you're a victiom of netsplit, tcn 18:15:50 i was at wing chun 18:15:56 hiya I440r! 18:15:57 and i gotta to to store for some phewd 18:16:00 there isnt any here! 18:16:02 tbw!!! 18:16:04 soap! 18:16:09 aaronl: :) 18:16:15 aner erm who am i forgetting,,, 18:16:20 oh yea... CLOG!!! heh 18:16:27 phewd??? sounds almost like P.U. lol 18:16:34 ill brb guys, i gotta go get some phood :) 18:16:47 lol 18:20:39 heh.. i missed him 18:21:23 you missed him already?! after ragging him?! ha ha ha! :) 18:24:00 he'll be back.. and begging me to cvs commit.. 18:25:16 ha ha ha!!! 18:28:34 ok.. got a clean build 18:29:59 good 18:30:57 still starts with a jmp $ 18:31:35 that's the infinite loop...why is it there? 18:31:56 need forth boot code 18:32:17 fortunately i happen to have some over here.. 18:32:28 hmm... 18:34:33 assuming it works with isforth 18:34:49 heh 18:39:03 i copied off him so it ought to :) 18:39:19 here goes... 'A emit 18:39:21 heh 18:41:08 i mean `B emit `* emit 18:41:19 ~/isforth/src $ ./isforth 18:41:19 B* 18:41:19 Segmentation fault (core dumped) 18:41:26 wooooooooooohooo 18:41:29 ;) 18:43:01 ha ha ha 18:43:18 heh.. forgot to say bye 18:43:55 u can't EXIT if u didn't ENTER :) 18:44:02 well, I have to go....need to sleep .... will go to work tomorrow (I am not thrilled about it; the tape backup program basically crashed....) 18:44:18 bye all 18:44:58 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 18:45:02 see ya 18:45:57 oh no not the USDA data! ;) 18:49:04 now I done it.. ouch 18:49:35 64M core dump 18:50:29 hmm gotta turn that off.. like I wanna look at that :) 18:56:03 back 18:56:16 hehehe 18:56:21 tcn go look at it 18:56:23 u dumped it 18:56:26 look at it :P 18:59:16 too late,, rm'd it 19:00:07 :P 19:00:18 coward :P 19:00:23 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o SoapForge 19:00:27 * aaronl is back 19:01:03 u gona check that stuff in dood ? 19:02:17 soon 19:02:33 :) 19:02:45 as in ur not finished or "i cant be bothered right now" 19:02:45 hehe 19:03:35 ulimit -c 0 19:03:49 i don't want no damn cores :) 19:04:05 bah 19:04:12 good assembly programmers don't dump core 19:04:27 anyway, it doesn't segfault anymore 19:05:24 cvs time.. 19:05:49 :) 19:05:56 what do u mean... segfault 19:05:59 pushl $128 19:05:59 pushl %edi 19:05:59 pushl %ebx 19:05:59 call MD5Update 19:05:59 addl $-8,%esp 19:06:00 pushl %ebx 19:06:02 leal -232(%ebp),%eax 19:06:04 pushl %eax 19:06:05 how can a program that doesnt do anything segfault ? 19:06:06 call MD5Final 19:06:49 dont use lea 19:06:51 use mov 19:07:03 only use lea for maths 19:07:08 it says AB* ... that's something :) 19:07:24 lea eax,[8*eab+eax] 19:07:34 ? 19:07:40 oh 19:07:45 i'm just looking at gcc -O3 -mcpu=pentiumpro's output 19:07:46 it shouldnt :P 19:07:59 :) 19:08:13 argh no sugar in my coffee 19:08:14 wow gcc sucks 19:08:16 dogh 19:08:28 aaronl: wow u r smart u figured that out so fast hehe 19:08:29 brb 19:08:31 sugar 19:08:36 hahaha 19:10:28 hmm 19:10:50 is it really this hard to cast from 32-bit to 16-bit?: 19:10:52 movzwl -2(%ebp),%eax 19:10:52 #APP 19:10:52 rorw $8, %ax 19:10:52 #NO_APP 19:10:52 movzwl %ax,%eax 19:10:52 --- join: water (water@c207-202-221-160.sea1.cablespeed.com) joined #forth 19:10:53 movl %ebp,%esp 19:10:55 popl %ebp 19:10:57 ret 19:11:30 yo (just felt like listening in) 19:11:50 --- mode: I440r set mode: +o water 19:11:55 hi dood :) 19:12:06 we are waiting on tcn here :P 19:12:21 ok 19:12:22 cisco went up 2 7/8 today!!! cool! 19:12:37 i got 33 shares of that :) 19:12:44 heh 19:12:47 cool 19:12:54 so I440r what the hell is it doing in that code? 19:12:58 what is movzwl? 19:13:10 movzx ? 19:13:17 mov with zero extend 19:13:28 uh huh 19:13:34 i'm trying to understand its logic here 19:13:39 so if u move a 16 bit value into a 32 bit reg it gets extended to 32 bits 19:13:43 ZERO extended 19:13:49 as opposed to sign extended 19:13:55 sounds like what i want 19:14:00 cool, i got some cisco in my 401k :) 19:14:06 what is the rest of the stuff tho? 19:14:16 all $200 of it :) 19:14:21 i hate the way they put w and l on those instructions 19:14:23 that sucks 19:14:34 yeah 19:14:45 i also own 3com and va linux :) 19:14:50 btw is there a high-level forth out there? 19:14:52 and some ciena 19:15:06 all down on where i baught it 19:15:07 what is the move and the pop for 19:15:08 ? 19:15:10 but slowly catching up 19:15:13 i worked at va linux this summer :) 19:15:32 its a shitty x86 stack fram 19:15:43 its cleaning the stack frame and restoring the stack pointer 19:15:47 oh 19:15:55 all that just to return something? 19:15:59 the first thing a c function does is save esp in ebp 19:16:08 * aaronl likes bswap 19:16:08 hehe 19:16:16 then move sp to some higher location to leave some space 19:16:24 for loca variables 19:16:26 why can't it put locals on sp? 19:16:28 i think C is bad, see win32 19:16:32 because sp moves 19:16:41 s/i/u/ 19:16:47 it cant keep track of local variables based at a moving location 19:16:54 ebp is kept static 19:17:04 and all local variables are at -somedistance[ebp] 19:17:15 then sp can be used as a stack in the normal way 19:17:17 push this 19:17:18 pop that 19:17:37 and you can call a function from within a function 19:17:50 and the new functionm will have its own local stack frame 19:17:58 yeah 19:18:01 on entry into a c function 19:18:03 you push ebpo 19:18:11 that saves your callers stack frame 19:18:17 then you mov esp into epb 19:18:25 then advance esp by some value 19:18:32 on exit 19:18:39 u put ebp back into sp 19:18:40 and return 19:18:52 so now the stack frame is back to your parents 19:19:01 its all very bogus 19:19:02 yup 19:19:04 push parameter 19:19:05 push parameter 19:19:08 call function 19:19:11 open local stack frame 19:19:14 do function 19:19:17 clean local stack frame 19:19:18 return 19:19:21 remove parameters 19:19:28 in assembly you don't have that bullshit do you? 19:19:29 very efficient yes ??? 19:19:30 bleh 19:19:40 i would hope not :) 19:19:43 a stack is a stack 19:19:47 why the hell does c do that? 19:19:53 local variables are an abomination 19:19:59 make all your c variables global :P hehehe 19:20:00 help!! 19:20:06 whuts up tcn ? 19:20:09 eh? 19:20:11 ur puter catch fire ? 19:20:12 hehe 19:20:21 what's wrong with locals? they're just stack space! 19:20:29 you have variables on the stack in assembly too 19:20:30 nothing 19:20:30 cvs!! 19:20:32 locals are good 19:20:37 they are jsut very inefficient in c 19:20:40 yeah 19:20:42 what about it ? 19:20:53 export CVS_RSH=ssh 19:20:59 yes 19:21:00 where do globals get stored in C? 19:21:07 cvs -dtnovelli@cvs.isforth.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/isforth co isforth 19:21:10 in program code space 19:21:20 thats check OUT 19:21:25 you want ci 19:21:28 oh 19:21:34 you want commit 19:21:35 u need to check it out so u can check it in heh 19:21:36 or something 19:21:36 then it asks for my password and never accepts it 19:21:43 heh program code space rules 19:21:47 * tcn nods 19:21:54 well 19:21:59 are u sure ur pas is rite ? 19:22:00 heh 19:22:07 yeah 19:22:13 but program code space goes on the disk .... 19:22:14 ask in #sourceforge 19:22:19 maybe sf is fubaring again 19:22:22 heap makes smaller binaries 19:22:27 as i understand it 19:22:42 slower ones too 19:22:45 ohh 19:22:54 what just clicked tcn ? 19:22:55 it wants my site pw.. 19:23:01 yeah heap is slow 19:23:05 what pass did u THINK it wanted ? 19:23:14 dw will put stuff in code space, rite? 19:23:14 your root pass at home ??? 19:23:15 heh 19:23:17 whatever that is :) 19:23:27 yes dw put it in the current section 19:23:34 which could be code section 19:23:38 data section or stack 19:23:45 hehe 19:23:57 tell me ur root tcn... ill keep it safe for you :) 19:24:04 not so likely the current code section gets paged to disk while you're excecuting it .... 19:24:09 UNLIKE the heap 19:25:18 heh 19:25:42 so are u checking stuff in yet or what :P 19:25:46 bleh :P 19:26:27 eventually 19:26:30 --- topic: set to 'work resumed on isforth project - tcn added as developer/away wing chun, back in 2 hours:P' by I440r 19:26:35 k 19:26:46