00:00:00 --- log: started forth/01.01.03 00:19:54 --- quit: I440r (clarke.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net) 00:19:54 --- quit: Fare (clarke.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net) 00:19:54 --- quit: Talia` (clarke.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net) 00:21:22 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 00:21:22 --- log: stopped forth/01.01.03 00:50:18 --- log: started forth/01.01.03 00:50:18 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 00:50:18 --- names: list (@clog) 00:50:18 --- names: EOL 00:53:45 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 00:53:45 --- log: stopped forth/01.01.03 00:59:02 --- log: started forth/01.01.03 00:59:02 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 00:59:02 --- names: list (@clog) 00:59:02 --- names: EOL 01:02:13 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 01:02:13 --- log: stopped forth/01.01.03 01:25:09 --- log: started forth/01.01.03 01:25:09 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 01:25:09 --- names: list (@clog) 01:25:09 --- names: EOL 01:26:19 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp51-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 01:26:19 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 01:26:19 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@agreen.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth 01:26:19 --- mode: tolkien.openprojects.net set mode: +tnloo 83 Fare I440r 01:26:19 --- mode: tolkien.openprojects.net set mode: -o clog 01:45:19 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 01:45:19 --- log: stopped forth/01.01.03 01:59:07 --- log: started forth/01.01.03 01:59:07 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 01:59:07 --- names: list (@clog) 01:59:07 --- names: EOL 02:00:09 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp51-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 02:00:09 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 02:00:09 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@agreen.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth 02:00:09 --- mode: tolkien.openprojects.net set mode: +tnloo 83 Fare I440r 02:00:09 --- mode: tolkien.openprojects.net set mode: -o clog 02:38:29 --- quit: Fare (Ping timeout for Fare[ppp51-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net]) 02:38:31 --- join: Fare (fare@ppp51-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net) joined #forth 03:07:25 --- quit: Fare (Ping timeout for Fare[ppp51-net1-idf2-bas1.isdnet.net]) 03:53:45 --- quit: Talia` (Ping timeout for Talia`[agreen.dialup.cloud9.net]) 05:18:23 --- join: Fare (fare@195.154.50.96) joined #forth 08:02:28 --- join: edrx (edrx@200.240.18.108) joined #forth 08:24:30 --- part: edrx left #forth 08:52:01 --- quit: clog (Ping timeout) 08:52:01 --- log: stopped forth/01.01.03 09:04:23 --- log: started forth/01.01.03 09:04:23 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 09:04:23 --- topic: 'do drop >in for ." Happy New Year" cr 0 +loop ( :)' 09:04:23 --- topic: set by TheBlueWizard on [Mon Jan 01 17:37:29 2001] 09:04:23 --- names: list (clog Fare @I440r) 09:04:23 --- names: EOL 10:41:23 --- join: ult (ult@1Cust240.tnt4.nashville.tn.da.uu.net) joined #forth 12:03:09 --- quit: ult (Ping timeout for ult[1Cust240.tnt4.nashville.tn.da.uu.net]) 13:51:41 --- join: Quozl (quozl@bay02-ppp0.gil.lisp.com.au) joined #forth 15:10:54 --- join: JazzISDN128k (akethri@207.150.88.26) joined #forth 15:10:57 Hola! 15:11:31 I speak only seven words of english. 15:15:25 --- quit: JazzISDN128k (Read error to JazzISDN128k[207.150.88.26]: No route to host) 17:49:07 --- join: ult (ult@1Cust23.tnt3.nashville.tn.da.uu.net) joined #forth 18:51:50 --- quit: Fare (Connection reset by pear) 18:55:55 --- join: tcn (Tom@207.198.30.16) joined #forth 18:55:55 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o tcn 18:56:06 hey 19:14:12 --- quit: tcn (Ping timeout for tcn[207.198.30.16]) 19:15:54 --- join: tcn (Tom@207.198.30.56) joined #forth 19:15:54 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o tcn 19:16:43 --- join: erichun (erichun@c118422-a.sttln1.wa.home.com) joined #forth 19:16:58 god please tell me there's someone in here who can help.... 19:17:31 hello?! 19:17:33 it dends 19:17:36 depends 19:18:23 er vsn rj;[ 19:18:31 * Quozl realigns fingers 19:18:32 OK... here's the choppy-frantic version. Mac G4, Open Firmware, First time, Didn't know what I was doing... typed things to see what'd happen, nothing did... gave up, restarted the computer, doesn't work 19:18:35 we can help 19:19:09 It's not a FORTH problem though, probability of being able to help reduced. Is the computer too hot? 19:19:28 OpenFirmware is Forth, as I believe.... 19:19:35 Ah, right. 19:19:38 is "dir" a forth command 19:19:50 in my bootloader it is 19:19:54 It may be a FORTH command in their dialect. 19:20:13 does it look familiar at all? 19:20:27 "Dir can't open the DIR device" 19:20:33 no 19:20:42 so what else did you type? 19:20:42 * erichun sighs 19:21:00 ls, dev, device, devlist, devicelist 19:21:03 help 19:21:04 and what happens now when you turn on the computer? 19:21:08 help dir 19:21:19 you may need to find a cold start feature. 19:21:21 it gives me a message so fast I can't read it... 19:21:34 and it goes away into a blank screen... 19:22:18 i'd be asking other mac users, checking with the manufacturer, looking for web matches on a reset to factory defaults. 19:22:36 yeah 19:22:41 it says /PCI@F2000000/@d/mac-io@7/ata-4@1F000/Disk@0:5,\\;TBX 19:22:52 it looks like a controller problem... 19:23:00 hard disk... something or other... 19:23:15 I know, do you know of any Mac-help places? I'm not so good at IRC.... 19:23:43 this network is for open source projects ... unlikely there'd be too many places here, but perhaps a mac linux channel. 19:24:19 hmmm... what's a server that's not so open-source friendly? (I'm on a linux box, it brought me here...) 19:24:27 Do you need to cold start your mac to unfuck your open firmware? 19:25:15 (Did you fuck your box by playing with open firmware) 19:25:21 I have too much spam on my screen to scroll up and find it all 19:25:28 if so there is a keystroke that is Ctrl-Apple-P-R 19:25:33 Well, it might not be Ctrl and Apple 19:25:35 ult, I'm not sure what you mean... if you mean turn it off, and wait and turn it back on, it doesn't work... if you mean to go into OpenFirmware again and tell it "mac-boot" 19:25:37 But you hold 4 keys down while booting 19:25:52 ult, I've reset the PRAM... 19:25:56 didn't work... :/ 19:25:58 And that didn't do it? You're SOL then. 19:26:03 thanks. 19:26:28 odd error message 19:26:43 what's a mainstream non-linux specific IRC server? 19:26:47 that message means it can't access the hard drive partition it is trying to boot off o 19:26:51 ult, tell me about it... 19:26:52 irc.undernet.org 19:27:02 Can you trick your way into MacOS? 19:27:13 Or are you unable to boot period? 19:27:35 ult: it also said (the first time I weint into OF) "Bad Root directory CRC" 19:27:48 oh shit :) 19:27:58 I can't boot at all, all I can do is go into OF... it doesn't even do the big boom mac sound 19:28:16 * Quozl observes self inflicted hole in foot 19:28:22 My sympathy. 19:28:26 erichun: Oh shit. 19:28:28 ult 19:28:33 erichun: Then I know what it is. You fried your hard drive. 19:28:43 erichun: That means it's time to reinstall MacOS :) 19:28:48 hehe 19:29:04 please don't say that... It's not mine, and the error was there before I even did anything the first time I went into OF.... 19:29:09 ult, I can't! 19:29:21 ult, there's no way to boot the system! 19:29:24 erichun: You did something that caused Open Firmware to become unable to read the hard drive 19:29:25 uhh.. go on vacation :) 19:29:30 erichun: Sure there is. Put the CD in the drive and turn it on 19:29:38 hold down C or whatever it is 19:29:40 ult, it won't 19:29:50 Um, you should be able to 19:29:50 it's more than that, as I cacn see... 19:29:58 there's not even a booming mac sound! 19:30:05 So? 19:30:15 the booming mac sound is not done by the Mac anymore, it's done by the OS 19:30:25 no shit?! 19:30:29 I believe so 19:30:37 ult: that's just wrong 19:30:59 it sounds like some data on your drive was overwritten 19:30:59 so maybe things are looking better... I thought it was a hardware problem... 19:31:13 tcn: maybe a boot sector or something? 19:31:34 the root directory, for one thing 19:31:40 * ult nods at tcn 19:31:44 erichun: yep 19:31:58 erichun: Well, it was trying to open the root directory, but the root dir had a CRC check fail 19:32:02 tcn: I don't even know what the root directory is on a mac... it's MacOS, not Linux... 19:32:08 erichun: Now...CRC checks are done entirely in softwarae 19:32:17 erichun: The root directory is kinda the system directory in MacOS 19:32:19 but not quiet 19:32:48 I see... 19:33:21 big and boomy :) 19:33:21 so, if I try to boot off a CD, maybe I can still access files off the hard disk? (please say it's possible) 19:34:00 is this mac in the room with you? 19:34:09 no, it's at work! 19:34:10 eric: ni 19:34:14 heheheh 19:34:22 eric: Um, who owns the Mac you broke? 19:34:26 ult, ni as in the nights who say ni? 19:34:30 eric: ni as in no 19:34:41 eric: I think you will be lucky if MacOS is smart enough to recover the FS when you boot it. 19:35:04 ult........... my boss..... (he's kinda a friend, it's not like I'm working for a huge corporation, I won't lose my job, but I may lose a friendship.........) 19:35:55 it would be easier at a big company.. 19:36:19 tcn: Yeah, I'd be fired, and I'd have a bad record... ;p 19:36:41 erichun: Oops. What exactly were you doing? 19:37:15 ult: I've always been interested in OF... just the idea of seeing a command prompt on a mac.... seemed interesting! 19:37:18 hey! 19:37:23 wait a minute! 19:37:41 the whole reason I went into OF! 19:38:16 oh ok. 19:38:25 we hooked up a USB Floppy drive to the computer when it was on because we needed to transfer a file from a PC to print... 19:38:26 So you went in on your bosses computer late at night and booted it? 19:38:36 no wait... listen! 19:38:42 * ult listens 19:38:54 and something happened, I don't remember what exactly... it froze... 19:38:58 I think.... 19:39:23 he said something like... "This happens every once in a while" 19:40:05 we had left the disk in the floppy drive (it doesn't have an auto-eject mechanism like a normal mac drive) 19:40:17 and it didn't boot! 19:40:50 and we thought the problem was that the floppy disk was in the drive, and usually when a mac can't boot off a floppy it tries to eject it, but it couldn't, you know? 19:41:26 so we ejected the disk, and I realized now was my chance to try OF, so when we rebooted, I tried it out... 19:41:34 and when we restarted it didn't work! 19:41:37 but wait! 19:41:45 it wasn't working BEFORE I went in OF! 19:41:53 heh 19:41:58 What kind of floppy drive is it? 19:42:04 is it one of those 120mb ones? 19:42:09 and does the Mac have a SCSI hard drive 19:42:13 ult, some sorta non-120M one.... 19:43:08 ult: I don't know why it was even invented, it was probably the same price as a LS-120, and all it was was a 1.44MB one, without even an autoeject mechanizm! 19:43:16 heh 19:43:16 lame 19:43:25 no kiddint 19:43:42 oooooh USB floppy :) 19:43:58 try booting it without the floppy drive plugged in? 19:45:39 hmm... check out this: 19:45:41 http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=open%20firmware 19:46:51 maybe this 'mac-boot' command will do the trick 19:51:05 zat is weird 19:54:40 it might be trying to boot off something other than the hd 19:55:25 /PCI@F2000000/@d/mac-io@7/ata-4@1F000/Disk@0:5,\\;TBX 19:55:50 tcn yes that's why I asked if that is a SCSI mac 19:56:09 because that looks like it is booting off an ATA device, and CD-Roms and detachable floppy drives often use ATA interfaces 19:57:09 and we're still waiting ... 19:57:40 I'm here... sorry, I was talking to him about the problem... 19:57:57 Your boss? 19:58:03 Is he firing you? 19:58:05 he agreed that it looks like it wasn't brought-on by the OF thing... but he doesn't know as much as I do about computers... 19:58:08 yeah 19:58:09 no 19:58:12 err 19:58:19 yeah my boss, no he's not firing me 19:58:42 let me look at the stuff you said while I was gone... 19:59:15 ult: Yes, I tried booting with ALL non-essential hardware unplugged 19:59:45 maybe the hard drive is physically fried 20:00:07 tcn: kinda looks like that's possible... lemme look at the website you mentioned... 20:00:56 on a PC at least, the disk controller gives CRC errors when the disk is damaged 20:01:54 each disk sector has a CRC 20:02:10 maybe I'll come back to that website... thanks... lemme catch up 20:02:36 however, your mac might have an additional layer of CRC on the root dir, filesystem, etc. 20:03:10 ult: it's not a SCSI mac, no SCSI in it... as far as I understand. 20:03:18 * erichun is still catching up 20:03:38 but i'm think that message meant "disk controller CRC error while attempting to read the root directory" 20:03:42 doubt it 20:04:01 unless the hard drive is going bad 20:04:10 but if its a G4 it's probably too new for that 20:04:22 ult: you doubt what? 20:06:22 it's a G4... the thing that made it crash originally was that I was trying to use Netscape to read a text file from the floppy disk, and when it tried to dial-up, it froze bad... ctrl-cmd-pwr didn't work.... 20:06:27 hold on big news 20:08:23 ok... I'm off the phone now. 20:09:07 he said that he tried turning it on with the CD in it, and noticed that I forgot to unplug the FireWire connection to the scanner and (possibly?) the USB hub... 20:09:12 hehe what is it.. "i dunno what I did but it worked!!" 20:09:18 he unplugged it and now it works 20:09:57 heh.. damn thing 20:10:29 but... that still doesn't answer why it crashed in the first place (he said Netscape crashes it like that sometimes when another program is running) and why it gave us an ATA/PCI problem! 20:10:31 sounds like it just scans all the connected devices for something that looks bootable 20:10:57 as for netscape, see http://jwz.org/gruntle/nscpdorm.html 20:12:15 basically, it's flaky 20:13:51 thanks guys... 20:14:55 yeah, no problem 20:15:20 glad to hear you got your nuts outta that vice grip :) 20:15:25 hehe, told you it was a Forth problem :) 20:15:56 tcn: that was scary... weirdest thing was that it had nothing to do with the fact that I went into OF 20:16:59 is that the only mac you guys have there? 20:19:06 well... we're not exactly an IS department or anything... he's an artist, and I'm his solder/crimping man... I do a lot of grunt-work in terms of the electronic aspects of the stuff we do.... he does most of the circuitry. He uses the Macs for his MIDI stuff... yes, more than one... three he uses regularly... the G4, an iBook and a PowerBook 20:20:49 heh.. is that Talia? 20:21:07 his name? no... Trimpin 20:21:52 erichun: I bet it was trying to boot off the scanner :D 20:21:56 haha 20:21:59 LOL 20:22:02 you know it! 20:22:10 Hmm...wonder what would happen if you put a CD in the scanner and tried to boot off the scanner :D 20:22:17 god... wouldn't that be hilarious 20:22:17 Put a WIndows CD in the scanner 20:22:23 put your ass on the scanner 20:22:49 Become so good with Macs that you've modified your ass so that you can boot off your butt-print 20:23:01 ick 20:23:04 ;p 20:23:23 if your lucky you can do a nice displah hack 20:23:40 hmmm.... I'm thinking it's time I look for a good extensive hard-disk checker, just to make sure... 20:23:44 "Hey bob, get your ass over here, we need to reboot the mac" 20:24:15 god... is this a common trait among IRC'ers? I see it everywhere 20:24:21 What? 20:24:37 --- join: Talia` (goshawk@agreen.dialup.cloud9.net) joined #forth 20:24:37 Absurdity, vulgarity, or the random topic changes? 20:24:42 =) 20:24:45 ello talia 20:24:51 people going all goofy like that, and being capable of thinking of things quickly in response... 20:24:55 talia... 20:24:59 erichun: Yes. 20:25:06 hmmmmm.... where have I heard that name? 20:25:06 erichun: IRC people tend to be very creative :D 20:25:08 hello ult and eric 20:25:14 how are you? 20:25:15 heh.. is that Talia? 20:25:21 * ult is playing xevil 20:25:25 (which is not written in forth, but) 20:25:27 :D 20:25:42 tcn: what's special about talia that Trimpin reminds you of him? 20:25:48 erich: you sure Talia's not your boss? he gets his mac working and 5 minutes later he's on here 20:26:07 hahahha 20:26:08 talia also does midi stuff with macs 20:26:24 hah =) 20:26:27 hello talia... you from Germany many years ago? 20:26:35 no, I am afraid not 20:26:50 tcn: talia's not my boss ;p 20:26:53 :D 20:27:00 would be pretty cool if I was, but nope 20:27:08 does talia do stuff with electronics too? 20:27:23 heh...as little as I can get away with =) 20:27:30 I am not very good at them 20:27:47 tcn: talia's DEFINATELY not my boss ;p 20:27:58 there ends the similarity :) 20:28:00 what kind of work did you used to do for your boss? 20:28:06 if you mind my asking 20:28:11 used to? 20:28:11 how are you, tcn? 20:28:35 tcn: well, he said Germany many years ago...I was making the presumption that he longer worked for him 20:28:36 sorry 20:28:36 wait a minute... if my boss showed up in here and knew it was me here, he'd try hard not to appear to be my boss, cause he makes himself out to be non-internet friendly... 20:28:37 oh i'm better 20:28:56 hahaha 20:29:00 hah 20:29:03 conspiracy theories =) 20:29:03 talia: no... he's from germany... I work for him now ;p 20:29:12 erich: oh ok...stupid me =) 20:29:48 heh.. i'm gonna be rich in 2 weeks ;) 20:29:51 He's an artist... I'm the "artist assistant" I even got a free admission to Bumbershoot with a badge that had that printed on it! 20:30:21 neat, that sounds actually fun...is it? 20:30:33 sure :) 20:30:35 I am afraid I don't know what bumbershoot is =) 20:30:38 http://fina.lly.org 20:30:50 you can see some of the stuff we done... Trimpin 20:31:30 sure 20:31:53 Bumbershoot=big event over memorial day weekend (or is it labor day?) and there's all sortsa music and art exibits and stuff.. 20:32:03 we got this huge job that has to be done in 2 weeks, and the customers are anal retentive, and the software we have to use is sloowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww & bloated 20:32:14 Corel draw/paint 20:32:18 tcn: windows? 20:32:21 oh 20:32:45 I have 128M RAM and it's still constantly swapping 20:32:55 tcn: is there such thing as a non-bloated software anymore? 20:33:07 erich: neat...I figured thats what it was...but I didn't know if it was centered on some kind of theme, or if it was even heard of in the US 20:33:19 tcn: I have 128 and I'm not swapping... I'm using Linux, though.... 20:33:30 there is sort of an information blockade about many of the cool things that happen in Europe 20:33:31 talia: it's in Seattle... 20:33:44 WA state 20:33:48 jeez 20:33:53 now I feel really stupid 20:33:55 =) 20:33:56 hehehe... sorry, I'm not that cool... 20:34:13 noone knows about it, it's OK... most people in WA don't even know it exists. 20:34:22 :D 20:34:37 gotta go unload the grocieries... be back later 20:34:41 heh.. I have windows 2K at work and it doesn't thrash much 20:34:58 except with coraldraw 20:34:58 these projects at your site look really slick, erich 20:35:01 sure thing =) 20:35:09 see ya erich 20:35:47 corel draw isn't too shabby under the mac, at least version eight isn't 20:35:55 heh 20:36:01 not if you don't mind using K-Mart of graphics packages! 20:36:11 yup =) 20:36:29 well, I mean it doesn't thrash much 20:36:44 performance isn't too bad...but as you said..it has a few uhm....shortcomings =) 20:37:11 I am trying to locate some older versions of StrataVision to play with 20:37:29 I figured that would be fun, if not entirely productive =) 20:37:58 shortcomings...? you mean like spontaneous death, or random garbage in your drawing? 20:38:07 hah 20:38:21 plus having a really shitty interface 20:38:34 to be honest, I really didn't use all too much...just a bit on a friend's machine 20:38:42 I wouldn't honestly use it if I didn't have to =) 20:38:54 hehe 20:39:15 every graphics program I use is worse than the next.. Intergraph, Autocad, Corel... 20:42:34 haha 20:42:44 ever try DesignCAD? 20:43:10 I have an ancient version from about 1991...so I am curious if it progressed at all =) 20:43:41 those guys had the nerve to say it would run on a Macintosh Plus... 20:44:02 it doesn't even run that fast on my SE/30 which is well over five times faster than the Plus 20:44:14 but the newer versions of the program are for Windows 20:46:47 ummm 20:47:15 i think i've seen it.. but I can't remember a damn thing about it 20:47:20 maybe i'm thinking of Cadkey 20:47:37 yeah, ok...I was just wondering =) 20:48:06 my se/30 has an fpu in it at least...I haven't gotten around to running it on the plus yet 20:48:13 but I know it's going to be like watching grass grow 20:48:33 I blew up the plus a week ago doing some "minor maintenance", so I have to wait for some parts to come in 20:49:54 heeh 20:49:57 the cable that is secures the power supply and the display hardware to the mother board fell loose and blew up half of the components on the board, somehow 20:50:08 you could smell the smoke in the next room 20:50:47 a real doofus maneuver 20:51:13 i've heard of guys setting a running hard drive down on something metal, and it touches the circuit traces.. no more hd :) 20:51:38 cute 20:51:49 I haven't nailed a hard drive yet 20:51:54 but I have toasted a fair share of motherboards 20:52:05 heheh, once I repaired an HD 20:52:15 mostly because I assemble the machine from the ground up, and do an impeccable job...and leave the processor out and power up the machine 20:52:24 hahaha 20:52:32 motherboards are "supposed" to have safeguards against running the machine without a processor 20:52:37 but, I have yet to see one that does =) 20:52:59 my old 30 meg seagate.. burned out a trace on back, so I taped some tin foil over it. 20:53:03 how did you repair the hard drive? 20:53:06 oh, neat 20:53:18 how did you burn out the trace? 20:53:21 dunno 20:54:16 that's cool 20:54:17 but sometimes the tape got loose and the machine locked up.. so i'd just rub it a little and it comes back to life :) 20:54:25 do you still use the drive for anything? 20:54:32 hahaha 20:54:48 haven't seen that old 286 piece of shit since 93 or 94 20:54:52 haha = 20:55:27 and my '91 486 finally died last year 20:55:57 yeah, mine dad december of '98 20:56:01 dad = died 20:56:06 wow my 386 still runs 20:56:15 you're lucky 20:56:18 yeah, I replaced mine with an even older 386 :) 20:56:21 my ps/2 went a month or two before the 486 20:56:38 the ps/2 was one of those tower models, that was made to be run over with a car 20:56:48 it's a northgate.. really nice :) 20:56:52 cool 20:57:09 I have an XT downstairs with a dead hard drive that I will dry to fix someday 20:57:18 it's otherwise in good shape 20:57:23 hehe 20:57:27 although I don't entirely trust the floppy drive 20:57:31 my first 486 blew up six weeks ago 'cause of dust in the power supply, the 12v line went ballistic, the cpu fan zoomed off into hyperspace, the leds on the front panel tried to exceed the speed of light, an analog chip in the hdd blew off a 16th inch chunk, and a tantalum filtering capacitor on the motherboard launched a two foot spark. 20:57:33 360K's weren't really know to be reliable 20:57:39 i helped someoone fire up an IBM PC a couple years ago 20:57:52 qouzl: cute :P 20:58:13 2 foot spark.. sure :) 20:58:13 my 486's keyboard controller chips went...no keyboard input...no computer as far as I am concerned 20:58:38 my Plus had a nice smark about the size of a dime 20:58:42 mine got corroded because of the NiCd battery 20:58:42 smark = spark 20:58:44 the dust in the australian outback is conductive ... and i had turned the machine on for the first time for a while just after some rain gave us 98% humidity. 20:58:59 Quozl: Uht oh. 20:59:21 Quozl: Conductive dust...I bet that makes thunder storms amusing. 20:59:25 haha 20:59:27 cool 20:59:29 that would awesome 20:59:59 it means i should clean my power supply circuit boards sometimes. 21:00:26 everything in AU has to hide in non-conductive booth everytime a storm occurs =) 21:00:33 everything = everyone 21:00:40 a lot of the 15+ year old boards I saw had UV EPROMS with the windows exposed.. junk :) 21:01:00 tcn: yeah :D 21:01:39 all kidding aside, I was under the impression Ohio had some of the nastier thunder storms in the world 21:01:40 and we found a video board that was TWO FULL-LENGTH boards.. 21:01:56 and all the other states in "tornado alley" 21:02:04 a square foot of video circuitry :) 21:02:08 tcn: haha, a real relic! 21:02:17 what kind of machine was that for? 21:02:26 ibm pc.. i think it was an early VGA 21:02:30 jeez 21:02:42 the cga in my xt is about the size of a normal videoboard by today's standards 21:03:22 my friend has an old mainframe hard drive in his basement 21:03:27 hahaha 21:03:32 I think it was 20M in size...and weighed about fifty pounds =) 21:03:49 rack mount :) 21:04:04 I told him it was small for a mainframe hard drive =) 21:04:07 yeah =) 21:04:17 Talia: I saw a Fujitsu Eagle once...650MB hard drive as big as me... 21:04:21 it looks like a small fridge 21:04:24 haha 21:04:27 that's awesome 21:04:37 a "locker" =) 21:04:45 seriously =P 21:04:53 like a pdp-11 =) 21:05:02 I think that was what it was attached to... 21:05:08 hah, that's sweet 21:05:16 I always wanted one of those...either that or an old vax 21:05:34 hehe don't you need 3-phase power? 21:05:38 yup 21:05:47 at least for the vax I think you do 21:05:53 not sure about the 11 21:06:03 depends on the model of VAX 21:06:09 isn't the vax a souped-up pdp? 21:06:22 yeah...you're right....the vax comes in as many varieties as women's cosmetics 21:06:25 :P 21:06:25 DEC did make VAX workstations that did not do well in the market 21:06:28 forgot about that 21:06:35 And those could run on standard power 21:06:43 oh yeah, and there was the LSI-11 portable 21:06:56 yeah...I am thinking os some of the real behemoth's they made in the early 80's 21:07:15 os = of 21:07:39 some of those had an unbelievable amount of RAM, even by today's standards 21:07:47 yeah, they are amazing 21:07:59