00:00:00 --- log: started forth/00.12.24 00:05:22 --- quit: NaN (clarke.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net) 00:05:22 --- quit: ree (clarke.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net) 00:05:22 --- quit: aaronl (clarke.openprojects.net tolkien.openprojects.net) 00:07:25 --- join: aaronl (aaronl@vitelus.com) joined #forth 00:07:25 --- join: ree (jwm@twisted.goodnet.com) joined #forth 00:07:25 --- mode: barnes.openprojects.net set mode: +o aaronl 00:07:29 --- join: NaN (emp@oles23.in-tch.com) joined #forth 00:27:04 --- join: mark4 (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 00:27:13 --- nick: mark4 -> I440r 00:28:03 hey i440r 00:28:07 hi dood 00:29:37 hehe 00:29:39 now I remember 00:29:43 purplecoder.com =) 00:30:16 heh yea 00:30:32 thats my domain :) 00:30:45 where u at ??? 00:30:50 its 3:25 here hhe 00:34:31 hehe 00:34:33 you remember 00:34:37 phoenix, arizona 00:37:02 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout for I440r[purplecoder.com]) 00:37:34 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 00:38:30 re 00:38:47 tnx 00:38:51 eth0 died on this box 00:38:55 ifconfig eth0 down 00:38:57 ifconfig eth0 up 00:38:58 fixes it 00:40:00 hehe 00:40:07 linux =) 00:40:10 hehe 00:40:13 * ree doesn't care for it 00:40:34 i htink its because im running 2.4 here 00:40:41 which isnt a finished product yet :) 00:40:47 what od u use ? 00:40:49 bsd ? 00:40:53 yep 00:40:55 freebsd 00:41:00 2.4 is crappy 00:41:06 seg faults everywhere 00:41:09 i got the iso here, donloaded it a month ago 00:41:14 burned the cd too... 00:41:21 didnt pluck up the courage yet tho ehh 00:41:36 my gateway server (purple) is 2.2.18 and is fine 00:41:54 2.2.x still seg faults during long extensive compiles for me 00:42:04 yea ? 00:42:06 yep 00:42:08 what processor do you have 00:42:14 amd k6-2 450 00:42:20 hrm 00:42:44 even snapshots of freebsd perform better than regular linux heh 00:42:44 purp is running on an amd k6-2/400 and has no problems with 2.2 00:43:11 I just find it has better response 00:43:18 and it seems a whole lot more stable 00:43:26 linux feels like the windows of unix 00:43:46 im just so used to debian linux now 00:43:54 and fbsd has differences n stuff 00:44:00 id hafta relearn shot 00:44:00 hehe 00:44:01 grrr 00:44:02 heh 00:44:09 debian was my first use of linux 00:44:10 at home 00:44:15 I had it installed for 2 weeks 00:44:20 then went to look for a better unix =) 00:44:21 i have a mirror here for both woody and potato 00:44:26 the i386 tree only tho 00:44:34 been using freebsd since 2.2.5 00:44:35 i stared with redhat 00:44:36 bleh 00:44:45 on tons of different machines 00:45:01 the only reason I've installed linux before was because of some app support 00:45:15 I'm probably going to install freebsd again on the other machine 00:46:32 linux couldn't even run X (dualhead) for longer than 2 days hehe 00:46:48 heeh i have my x loaded here permanantly hehe 00:46:57 i never have x problems 00:47:11 except when i upgrade and the debian upgrade overwrites my Xwrappers file 00:47:19 and user is no longare allowed to run x 00:47:20 grrr 00:47:21 heh 00:47:33 ohh 00:47:35 I run xdm 00:47:38 really nice 00:47:46 it allows for the Xdmcp protocol 00:47:48 argh 00:47:52 dpkg --purge xdm 00:48:00 i wont have anythign to do with it 00:48:03 why? 00:48:08 I replace my tty 00:48:13 because i dont want to HAVE to go into x 00:48:15 I only have one tty running on freebsd 00:48:21 you don't 00:48:21 i want control over weather i startx or not 00:48:25 you can escape to console 00:48:37 freebsd only has ONE tty ? 00:48:39 no 00:48:41 that woudl suck 00:48:48 I only have one running 00:48:52 oh 00:48:54 it can handle lots 00:48:54 ok hee 00:49:27 I have xdm -nodaemon running on one 00:49:32 and the other has getty 00:49:52 :) 00:50:06 Xdmcp is cool 00:50:12 if you run it on several networked hosts 00:50:18 you can login to the other machine from any other 00:50:46 erm i can do that with ssh :) 00:50:50 actually tho 00:50:55 ONLY the server runs sshd 00:51:01 no, I mean 00:51:04 the entire desktop environment 00:51:06 and no machines on the internal net has telnetd 00:51:11 vnc 00:51:26 not using vnc, just X 00:51:28 vnc is slow =) 00:51:29 if i boot this machine to windows i can run a vnc viewer there 00:51:46 export DISPLAY=some-other-machine:0.0 00:51:47 it's like windows nt network logins 00:51:49 startx ? 00:51:51 not like that 00:53:13 it's embedded within xdm 00:53:16 hehe 00:53:22 i STILL dont like xdm 00:53:23 hosts running xdm, communicate using a broadcast 00:53:24 its like saying 00:53:31 im in charge and YOU are starting x 00:53:34 like it or not 00:53:37 you can choose which machine to login to 00:53:41 i hate that heh 00:53:50 I just use it on another tty 00:53:58 it lets you have multiple X sessions without exiting from X 00:54:18 it sucks to have to exit from X, then login as another person, then start X again 00:54:57 well having a local net that allows logins on every machine from any machine is a security issue for me 00:55:01 i hvae shells running on my box 00:55:06 on the server 00:55:19 you explicitly configure it hehe 00:55:23 and i dont want any user able to access any machine on the local net in any way 00:55:36 every security measure has an exploit hehe 00:55:40 if someone finds it:) 00:55:48 I'm the only user of my machines 00:56:02 well, in access list security systems 00:56:06 not in capabilities 00:56:18 which software should be designed around =) 00:56:27 :) 00:57:02 security under unix is like a paper bridge under a semi truck 00:57:37 ssh and other "secure" clients are supposedly easy to sniff 00:57:38 hehe 00:57:40 me too 00:57:47 i have a very secure ipchains rule here 00:57:55 allow any packet to or from anywhere 00:58:01 any time i try change that i get 00:58:06 deny any packet to or from anywhere 00:58:07 hehe 01:00:37 heh 01:00:47 ipfilter is nice =) 01:00:59 wonder why ipchains doesn't use a file based setup 01:01:47 but I guess it doesn't matter really 01:02:07 unix isn't the best possibility of any type of system 01:02:07 :) 01:05:54 so i440r, what are you working on lately? 01:08:00 not much hehe 01:08:03 8051 simulator 01:08:19 and im gona pick up on isforth realy soon now i think 01:08:24 after xmas 01:08:45 cool 01:08:49 glad to hear 01:09:17 tcn has sort of solved the problem i was stukk on :P 01:09:39 i asked where u were located ? 01:09:50 i thinku told me b4 but i ferget :P 01:14:27 haha 01:14:30 phoenix, arizona 01:15:05 oh yea 01:15:08 i remember :) 01:15:13 what u doin up :P hehe 01:15:25 i was in bed but i woke up 01:18:40 well 01:18:45 I'm up at nights usually 01:19:00 helps me think clearer 01:24:34 --- join: edrx (edrx@copacabana-ttyS10.inx.com.br) joined #forth 01:27:32 :) 01:29:56 now I just need to really focus 01:29:58 and get work done 01:39:17 * aaronl is coding 01:40:15 call the exorcist, someone took over aaron's body 02:02:06 --- part: edrx left #forth 02:10:47 bbiab =) 02:24:01 * aaronl is away: Sleep :-( 03:58:11 --- quit: ree (changing servers) 03:58:55 --- join: ree (jwm@twisted.goodnet.com) joined #forth 03:59:09 --- quit: NaN (Ping timeout for NaN[oles23.in-tch.com]) 04:15:43 --- quit: I440r (herbert.openprojects.net hogan.openprojects.net) 04:16:39 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 05:00:10 * aaronl is away: sleep all day 06:56:43 --- nick: ree -> eer 06:56:52 --- nick: eer -> eeree 06:56:59 heh 06:57:53 --- quit: eeree (Read error to eeree[twisted.goodnet.com]: EOF from client) 07:15:45 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout for I440r[purplecoder.com]) 08:30:06 --- join: Qryptyx (a00039@l082.nwm.dial.mindlink.net) joined #forth 08:31:01 --- part: Qryptyx left #forth 10:07:53 --- join: ree (jwm@twisted.goodnet.com) joined #forth 10:22:14 --- join: I440r (mark4@purplecoder.com) joined #forth 10:22:46 re i440r =) 10:23:23 hi dood :)P 10:24:26 hehe, redid my site 10:24:44 all text 10:24:44 and is based around the dist system now 10:25:09 site ? 10:25:24 www.dist.org 10:25:27 www.dist.net 10:25:37 won't work right now 10:26:04 they'll be launched officially once the dist system is operational hehe 10:31:31 looking 10:34:59 later it will interface with the system 10:35:03 which is all assembly 10:35:16 right now I'm just hosting it on apache 10:35:34 cool 10:35:45 what is the dist system exactly ? 10:36:18 "help" didnt work hehe 10:36:23 does it use java script ? 10:36:25 it should now =) 10:36:36 no, just simple form 10:36:40 I don't even use tables 10:36:51 hehe its case sensative 10:36:59 you gotta type "H" elp 10:37:29 yeah, right now 10:37:38 I just made a simple php script 10:37:42 four lines hehe 10:37:46 hehe 10:37:50 ive got a book on php 10:37:57 sems geared towards database writers tho 10:38:03 and i hate data base shit hehe 10:38:09 ah 10:38:11 I love db 10:38:16 but not the traditional way 10:38:22 like query languages and crap 10:39:33 the dist system itself is meant to be a infinitely expandable system of communication 10:39:50 much like a self modifying virus 10:40:13 I can take simple concepts, apply them recursively, and get a much larger complex system out of them 10:40:34 so it will all be based around people creating projects using a set of basic principles 10:40:50 that the central dist system can assimilate into its own structures 10:41:02 the web sites will be an extension of that ability 10:41:23 people can create accounts and use a natural language interface to build their unique own systems 10:41:27 er, own unique 10:41:50 I use a address map based system 10:42:04 the just implements the system using physical addresses and calls (asm) 10:42:09 the/that 10:42:09 hehe 10:42:29 all math operations, logical algorithms, and etc are implemented in address calls 10:45:48 php itself is good for a server side scripting language 10:45:55 if you already know C 10:45:57 and shell script 10:46:05 it's more than easy to catch on 10:53:38 yea i know 10:53:39 hehe 10:53:41 i do know c 10:53:47 bash is way too cryptic 10:54:47 --- quit: aaronl (Read error to aaronl[vitelus.com]: Connection reset by peer) 10:56:15 brb gotta go do something 10:57:58 cryptic? hehe 10:58:26 not really much learning curve 10:58:30 just need a good example 10:58:37 and there are plenty of those 11:02:26 hehe 11:02:27 back 11:02:35 re =) 11:02:44 do you like that design idea? 11:06:45 dunno. it has possabilities :) 11:06:52 dunno how much it would catch on tho.... 11:07:36 oh 11:07:37 how about the website look? 11:07:42 and usability 11:07:47 recursion is an abomination btw :) 11:07:47 not having to use any links 11:08:08 ive yet to see a single instance of a recursive algorithm that couldnt be done better with an ittterative one 11:08:47 actually, when you get to your site its practically empty 11:08:54 no cluse about anything on the main page 11:08:57 the final recurison is done out of necessity 11:08:59 its like this 11:09:03 +s 11:09:18 yeah, you type Help 11:09:18 you fone foobar inc and get their answering machine thinge 11:09:20 they say 11:09:23 when you go to google.com, you know you're going to search 11:09:23 blah blah blah blah blah 11:09:26 press 1 for this 11:09:33 blah blah blah blah blah 11:09:36 press 2 for this 11:09:37 blah blah blah blah blah 11:09:40 etc etc etc 11:09:55 there is one text box 11:10:01 you literally have to listen to the whole fscking message before you can make a decision 11:10:08 one line of text 11:10:17 a single tab and type help 11:10:20 that is it 11:10:35 it would be better if you had links tho i think 11:10:42 hehe 11:10:47 all options on display from the start 11:10:50 no need to type help 11:11:03 just point and click 11:11:09 ppl dont like to use the keyboard hehe 11:11:14 they are lazee :P 11:11:14 you'll have to understand the system to use it 11:11:24 yes 11:11:25 the text box introduces the most efficient manner in using the system 11:11:29 and thats what is wrong with it... 11:11:33 MOST ppl wont bother to learn 11:11:33 you don't even have to use the mouse 11:11:59 well, word is enough when it comes to advertisement 11:12:29 I'm not aiming at the aoler who stops by and doesn't see anywhere to click and gets pissed off =) 11:12:50 I can design fancy pages 11:13:01 but I've decided to target a certain crowd 11:13:03 hehehe4 11:13:19 and ignore anything that makes it less efficient to deliver 11:13:23 :) 11:13:36 look at yahoo 11:13:39 number one site 11:13:42 it's confusing as hell 11:13:53 but it has that one text box 11:13:55 i know one thats MUCH worse 11:14:03 that's its saving grace 11:14:05 a PRIME example of exactly how NOT to do a web site 11:14:18 hehe, I'm not making a web site though =) 11:14:24 the icq web page hehe 11:14:28 taht one totally sucks hehe 11:14:34 i NEVER go there for any reason 11:14:36 hah, there are some really bad ones 11:14:41 I don't like sourceforge's for example 11:14:46 massive freaking page 11:14:47 follow a link to the thing you want 11:14:53 they recently cleaned it up a little, but still 11:15:02 find 6 pages of shit that you dont want anything from 11:15:09 plus one link that looks about right 11:15:11 follow it 11:15:16 and find the same situation 11:15:18 haha 11:15:26 follow the closest match link again and get back to wher you started 11:15:30 argh!!!!!!!!!!!! 11:15:33 sort of like porn sites with ads to others 11:15:40 endless loops of blind links all over the place 11:15:44 hehehe 11:16:07 I swear, they break physic laws 11:16:16 :) 11:16:47 yeah, what I want to do is interface these sites with the system 11:16:54 and allow people to use their accounts 11:17:34 but also manipulate and check out the system 11:17:57 so it won't be possible to generate millions of links 11:18:11 instead it's a lot easier and cleaner to make a natural language interface 11:19:05 if someone wants to contribute a project that can generate entire web pages with links given random data sets 11:19:11 that'd be great 11:19:23 but I think we should all move towards natural language interfaces 11:20:21 the web is one of the worst organized systems out there 11:20:47 nothing relates to the information being stored, it all is centered around the protocols used to communicate that information 11:21:04 asha yes 11:21:06 it is 11:21:08 like a blind dog leading a blind man down the street 11:21:11 but chaos RULES 11:21:18 let me give you an example 11:21:21 trafic lights 11:21:37 lets try orgamizing the trafic lights in YOUR town 11:21:44 we are going to make the cycle time 1 second 11:21:49 green for 1 second 11:21:51 red for 1 second 11:21:58 jsut enought time to let ONE car through 11:22:01 if you are quick 11:22:01 chaos is limited 11:22:08 obviously not a good plan 11:22:08 so 11:22:11 lets change it 11:22:11 our minds don't work in that way 11:22:11 2 hours 11:23:01 that would bring the whole system to a standstill 11:23:01 you get green for 2 hours but somehwere ahead of you is a red light 11:23:01 your stream is guaranteed to get clogged 11:23:01 NOBOSY would move for hours on end 11:23:04 they are still organized 11:23:12 in a higher hierarchy 11:23:17 i have a theory that if they totally randomized the trafic lights it would go alot smoother 11:23:28 red for 20 to 30 seconds 11:23:34 they are developed as to allow every street and every car to go in at a more efficient pace 11:23:34 green for20 to 30 seconds 11:23:40 every time youget a change of state 11:23:54 the problem with chaos is that it only describes a small amount of behavior 11:23:54 red/green you run rnd() 11:23:59 to see how long you stay there 11:24:26 chaos is how nature organizes EVERYTHING 11:24:26 no, it isn't 11:24:30 it most definatly is 11:24:31 everything is organized 11:24:36 everything has a chain of events 11:24:46 down to the sub atomic level 11:24:47 yes 11:24:53 but they are NOT always predictable 11:25:09 we don't know that yet 11:25:11 the chain cannot be expressed in ANY mathematical form 11:25:12 that's quantum theory 11:25:28 it would probably require a complete understanding of the whole 11:25:33 which is a catch 22 11:25:39 and way too complecated for anyone to ever understand 11:25:41 though I believe there is a reason for everything 11:25:48 yes, but just because we don't understand it 11:25:49 there is 11:25:52 doesn't mean it is organized 11:26:40 isn't 11:27:15 yes but my point is that WE have no hope of ever understanding that level of organization 11:27:16 so 11:27:18 like i said 11:27:23 chaos isn't a system, you can't do anything with it 11:27:25 well 11:27:31 RANDOMIZE the trafic lights and trafic would run much smoother 11:27:31 that's like saying the world is round 11:27:34 er flat 11:27:41 and we'll never know what is on the other side 11:27:48 heh 11:27:52 heh 11:27:54 ok i440r =) 11:27:54 it is 11:27:58 and we wont :P 11:28:08 I'm sure cities have spent billions on figuring out the traffic systems 11:28:11 clog op us :P 11:28:12 and which methods run smoothly 11:28:23 and they have it fucked up 11:28:23 totally 11:28:33 I think traffic is chaotic itself 11:28:34 we have 5 minute cycle times here 11:28:38 it is 11:28:42 and therefore less efficient 11:28:44 so stop trying to organize it 11:28:47 let it do its own thing 11:28:50