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11:36:22 --- mode: ChanServ set mode: +o MrReach
11:37:03 <MrReach> hello?
11:59:20 <I440r> im here :)
12:07:47 <MrReach> how are you?
12:08:14 <MrReach> do you think COM methods should be specified all in one word or spread out?
12:08:31 <I440r> oh
12:08:36 <I440r> im all for factoring stuff out
12:09:02 <MrReach> heh, I'm for whatever format is the most lucid   @:^>
12:09:21 <I440r> :)
12:09:25 <MrReach> you gonna be around in 2 hours or so?
12:09:43 <MrReach> I've gotta take my wife to a dental appt
12:10:02 <I440r> ouch :)
12:10:07 <I440r> prolly be here...
12:10:12 <MrReach> then I'd like to type up examples of three variations and e-mail them to you for your opinion
12:10:17 <I440r> email me if u cant raise me, i9ll be in the other room wiuth laptop
12:10:27 <I440r> will see the email
12:10:27 <MrReach> and, if you've got time, I'd like you to eval TeamWave
12:11:13 <I440r> teamwave ?
12:11:34 <MrReach> it's a groupware app, something like netmeeting
12:11:46 <I440r> ok
12:11:49 <MrReach> but quite a bit more versatile, and completely extensible
12:12:18 <MrReach> will see you soon
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12:31:46 <I440r> tgunr: are u a bot or a person ?
12:31:47 <I440r> heh
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12:38:00 <tgunr> im a person (i think)
12:39:18 <I440r> cool
12:39:19 <I440r> hehe
12:39:28 <I440r> do i know u via another nick ?
12:40:19 <tgunr> perhaps, have not been on irc for ages
12:40:34 <I440r> ok hehe
12:40:40 <I440r> u code forth i take it ?
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12:50:14 <Fare> gakuk
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15:08:57 <MrReach> you around, I4?
15:47:50 <MrReach> i440r : you here?
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17:28:15 <MrReach>     mark4_ : you alive?
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18:03:09 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
18:03:24 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +oo aaronl_ clog
18:03:40 --- mode: TheBlueWizard set mode: +ooo Fare mark4_ MrReach
18:19:14 <TheBlueWizard> are you awake?
19:22:31 <MrReach> no, StarTrek Voyager
19:22:36 <MrReach>     @:^>
19:23:13 <TheBlueWizard> ah :)
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19:35:07 <mark4_> mrreach are u there ?
19:35:11 <mark4_> i fell assleep man
19:35:20 <mark4_> hi kyle :)
19:35:20 --- nick: mark4_ -> I440r
19:35:22 <aaronl_> hello I440r
19:35:23 <Kyle> hi
19:35:37 <I440r> kyle is a forth coder ?
19:35:41 <Kyle> no
19:36:01 <Kyle> just interested in what fourth coders talk about
19:36:49 <I440r> ok :)
19:36:56 <I440r> sometimes we even talk about forth hehe
19:37:32 <Kyle> I440r: were you at #tunes?
19:38:06 <I440r> ive been in there a couple of times
19:39:07 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r :)
19:39:11 <I440r> tbw!!!
19:39:27 <I440r> gbrb, gotta get a coffee :)
19:39:39 <TheBlueWizard> k
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19:43:11 <TheBlueWizard> heh
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20:01:22 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go
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20:13:52 <mark4> fscking power outage grrrr
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22:04:33 <I440r> fhey mrreach u there ?
22:04:36 <I440r> i fell assleep :P
22:04:42 * aaronl_ is away: Sorry, no testing tonight, until I do my geometry :(
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22:07:23 <adu> hi there
22:09:26 <I440r> hi
22:09:29 <I440r> adu codes forth ?
22:12:41 <adu> kinda
22:13:01 * MrReach has returned, so all rejoice!
22:13:03 <I440r> cool :)
22:13:07 <adu> i have apple G3 beige, and i've pressed cmd-opt-O-F a few times......
22:13:13 <I440r> mrreach sorry man i fell assleep earlier...
22:13:22 <MrReach> not to worry
22:13:45 <adu> i havent gotten my machine to do much in OpenFirmware
22:14:00 <adu> i can barely get out of it
22:14:02 <adu> hehe
22:14:02 <I440r> was watching the tv, waiting to see if us supreme court made a decision
22:14:09 <I440r> hehe
22:14:13 <MrReach> erm ... I don't think it's _possible_ to do too aweful much in OF
22:14:29 <MrReach> OF was the BIOS init system, right?
22:14:41 <I440r> its the boot loader i believe
22:14:44 <I440r> not sure whats possible
22:14:44 <adu> MrReach: yup
22:14:56 <adu> but its more i think
22:14:58 <MrReach> yeah, it's like the disk interface with no OS to speak of
22:15:16 <adu> i think its the boot loader/bios
22:15:20 <MrReach> sure, it could be massively extended to make an OS, but that's a LOT of work
22:15:43 <adu> but it uses forth as its language
22:15:54 <adu> thats how i learned about it
22:15:54 <MrReach> not to say it's not a good idea, just that noone has felt up to doing it
22:15:57 <MrReach> yes, it does
22:16:11 <MrReach> and I suspect somebody at Apple was thinking of writing a Forth OS
22:16:22 <MrReach> but never actually got to it
22:16:30 <I440r> that would have been neat
22:16:37 <adu> cuz i installed ydl on my mac in feb, and they said to type something in the OpenFirmware place like boot HD:8,\\\yaboot.tbxi
22:16:40 <MrReach> but _did_ do the boot loader as proof-of-concept
22:16:57 <adu> but i never got that to work so i wanted to learn more about the lang, THEN i learned it was called forth.....
22:17:13 <MrReach> heh, the secret weapon of many companies
22:17:22 <MrReach> (many of them military contractors)
22:17:26 <I440r> yes
22:17:39 <adu> but ydl has a control panel that did the same thing, so i have to wait longer to get into linux
22:17:40 <adu> o well
22:17:42 <MrReach> all the avionics equipment I used to work on had Forth kernels
22:19:26 <adu> avionics whats that?
22:19:36 <adu> you know what i noticed?
22:19:44 <MrReach> is that a joke?
22:19:51 <adu> forth and lisp are kinda opposite
22:19:59 <adu> o know its either sound or airplanes
22:20:10 <MrReach> avionics: equipment used in airplanes and at airports for flight control
22:20:22 <adu> my second guess was right then
22:20:23 <adu> hehe
22:20:31 <MrReach> adu: they REALLY are, in several ways
22:20:36 <MrReach> I've noticed the same thing
22:20:50 <adu> like in lisp 5 6 + is actually (+ 5 6)
22:21:18 <MrReach> yes, but not JUST the pre/post fix issue
22:21:23 <adu> like what?
22:21:32 <MrReach> Forth prides itself in small, no fat
22:21:38 <adu> oooooo
22:21:43 <adu> hehe
22:21:45 <adu> tru
22:21:46 <MrReach> Lisp prides itself in large, lots of tools
22:22:00 <adu> yup
22:22:04 <MrReach> in forth, a def is set in stone, new defs don't alter it
22:22:06 <adu> i want to learn more lisp tho
22:22:22 <MrReach> in lisp, redefining a symbol changes its behavior everywhere
22:22:30 <adu> hmm
22:22:39 <adu> i'm still learning about symbols
22:22:48 <MrReach> do you know TCL?
22:22:58 <adu> i got about half way thru the LISP hyperspec intoduction
22:23:02 <adu> a little
22:23:17 <adu> i know its really easy for passing functions
22:23:29 <adu> i found the eval
22:23:36 <MrReach> then you probably know that redefining a procedure with proc replaces the old definition
22:23:42 <adu> to be a really cool feature of TCL
22:23:54 <adu> o, nope, didn't know that
22:24:02 <adu> i learn overviews of languages
22:24:05 <MrReach> that is a lisp-like behavior
22:24:39 <MrReach> redefining a word in forth does NOT change the properties words compiled with the old definitions
22:24:42 <adu> so is it impossible to change a macro in forth?
22:24:47 <adu> k
22:25:09 <MrReach> no, a macro is a construct to circumvent that behavior in Forth
22:25:27 <MrReach> ok, take these three defs:
22:25:44 <MrReach> : foo cr ." I'm foo!" ;
22:25:58 <MrReach> : bar foo ;
22:26:05 <MrReach> : foo cr ." I'm another foo!" ;
22:26:23 <adu> ya
22:26:30 <MrReach> now, what is printed if I enter "bar<CR>"  ?
22:26:40 <adu> " I'm foo!"
22:26:45 <MrReach> yep
22:26:57 <MrReach> in Lisp it would have printed "I'm another foo!"
22:26:59 <adu> but does it not make any error msgs?
22:27:30 <MrReach> some systems issue an advisory warning "foo redefined"
22:28:14 <MrReach> if you want to screw with somebody's head, redefine : (colon) or .( and save the system
22:28:16 <adu> ic
22:28:22 <adu> hehehe
22:29:05 <adu> kforth is very small tho
22:29:09 <adu> s/k//
22:29:27 <I440r> hehehe
22:29:31 <I440r> mrreach you are evil :P
22:29:31 <MrReach> yes, generally. Do you think that's good or bad?
22:29:50 <adu> 440: what did he do?
22:29:53 <MrReach> I meant yes about forth being small
22:30:07 <I440r> he said redefine : hehe
22:30:10 <I440r> and save system :P:
22:30:10 <MrReach> adu: I vandalized a forth installation by redefining colon
22:30:12 <adu> o yes that is evil
22:30:17 <adu> good
22:30:24 <adu> that is small
22:30:28 <adu> not that your evil
22:30:43 <MrReach> one of the things I like about LISP is that it's virtually crash proof
22:31:04 <adu> unless you redefine (
22:31:08 <adu> but you cant
22:31:25 <MrReach> but its slow and bloated, and that seems to be one of the major tradeoffs in most languages
22:31:46 <MrReach> in forth you CAN redefine (
22:32:06 <MrReach> in LISP you can, too, I think, but it's much harder
22:32:40 <MrReach> LISP has "parsing tables" in which syntactical characters are listed
22:33:02 <adu> interesting
22:33:41 <MrReach> I440: you ready to eval that software?
22:34:23 <I440r> no, need to put it on my laptop
22:34:52 <MrReach> do you want the unix version or windoze version?
22:35:58 <MrReach> (they are nearly identical ... one of the wonders of TCL)
22:36:36 <I440r> i could do so in a min or two...
22:37:02 <MrReach> have you played with Teamwave Workplace before? I remember bongo and I trying to get you to try it, but don't know if you did.
22:37:18 <MrReach> do you want the unix version or windoze version?
22:37:19 <I440r> not me
22:37:24 <I440r> hrm where is bongo :P
22:37:30 <I440r> hafta msg that guy :P~
22:37:37 <MrReach> Geneva, I believe
22:37:51 <MrReach> hasn't been online in a couple of weeks
22:37:53 <I440r> i know
22:37:58 <adu> bongo?
22:38:08 <MrReach> a Forther that sometimes comes here
22:38:11 <I440r> another forth coder :)
22:38:15 <I440r> cool guy
22:38:24 <MrReach> does commercial embedded control stuff in Europe
22:38:48 <MrReach> cash machines, telephones, that sort of thing
22:39:44 <MrReach> i440r: do you want the Linux/XWin version or the Windows version?
22:40:01 <I440r> erm well im on my linux box rite now...
22:40:02 <I440r> try that one
22:40:24 <MrReach> http://www.teamwave.com/pub/current/workplace-4.3.1-linux.tar.gz
22:40:31 <MrReach> ok, odd installation ...
22:40:41 <MrReach> it unpacks into one or two files ...
22:40:49 <MrReach> in whatever dir you unpack in
22:41:14 <MrReach> just run the execuatable from an xterm and you're in business
22:41:27 <I440r> ok
22:41:31 <I440r> dcc it ?>
22:41:44 <MrReach> I'll create a room "Forth" on the demo server and meet you there
22:41:55 <MrReach> we tried that before ...
22:42:07 <MrReach> the dcc doesn't work through our firewalls
22:42:14 <MrReach> (or my router, whichever)
22:42:17 <I440r> aha
22:42:18 <I440r> ok
22:42:24 <I440r> email it then heh
22:42:36 <MrReach> erf! ok, just a sec
22:45:17 <MrReach> heh, 1.6 MB takes a bit even on DSL
22:45:31 <MrReach> of course, hotmail has never been a screamer anyway
22:45:47 <MrReach> it behaves much like other M$ software
22:45:53 <MrReach> a tad doggy
22:46:39 <MrReach> it won't let me send to you, I4, just asec, I'll zmodem it to my account
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22:48:53 <johnw> you here, aaron?
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22:49:11 <I440r> zmod ?
22:49:13 <I440r> oh
22:49:14 <I440r> wait
22:49:19 <I440r> u have it in ur account on purp ?
22:50:05 <MrReach> it will be there in a sec
22:50:27 <I440r> i k
22:51:53 <MrReach> transfering now w/ ftp
22:52:09 <MrReach> windows ftp sucks donkey penis
22:52:14 <I440r> hehehe
22:52:20 <I440r> thatl teach u to use doze :P
22:52:30 <MrReach> heh, it's there at least
22:52:38 <I440r> i can see it coming in on my wmnd :)
22:53:01 <MrReach> says it's done, 28.83 kbytes/s
22:53:06 <I440r> yup
22:53:15 <I440r> wmnd graph shows its complete :)
22:53:25 <MrReach> ok, see you on the demo server in #Forth
22:53:31 <MrReach> if you have ???s, ask here
22:53:41 <MrReach> account "guest" no password
22:54:03 <I440r> ok hang on let me get it
22:54:20 <I440r> did u ftp it to your account or incoming
22:54:48 <MrReach> I ftp's to whatever "mrreach" username put me in
22:54:57 <MrReach> it said it was /home/m/mrreach
22:55:57 <MrReach> ok, I will see you arrive
22:56:06 <aaronl_> why do you use doze
22:56:10 <aaronl_> instead of dos?
22:56:13 <I440r>  /home/users/m/mrreach actually heh
22:56:37 <MrReach> "doze" is a bastardization/abbreviation of "Windows"
22:56:49 <MrReach> Windows
22:56:50 <aaronl_> i know
22:56:53 <aaronl_> why use windows?
22:56:54 <MrReach> Windoze
22:56:55 <aaronl_> use dos
22:57:27 <MrReach> I do too much windowing stuff to use dos, web surfing, graphics editing, (hell, IRCing)
22:57:34 <aaronl_> yuck
22:57:37 <aaronl_> use unix :p
22:57:42 <I440r> gimme a min ...
22:57:57 <MrReach> I have a unix machine here beside me, but it's turned off right now, will come up later this month for routing purposes
22:58:11 <MrReach> Windows is a better interface, so far
22:58:33 <MrReach> text is clearer, mosre software, easier to install, etc
22:58:42 <aaronl_> hmm
22:58:45 <aaronl_> no forth irc clients?
22:58:46 <MrReach> Linux is catching up, but it's not there yet
22:58:55 <MrReach> heh, nope
22:59:09 <I440r> i cant fukcking find where i extracted it to grrr
22:59:10 <I440r> wait
22:59:10 <MrReach> very few forths even have host OS access or sockets
22:59:17 <MrReach> HAHAHAHA!
23:00:53 <I440r> ok erm
23:00:56 <I440r> i got it loaded
23:00:58 <I440r> how do i join a channel ?
23:02:18 --- quit: MrReach (Ping timeout for MrReach[209.181.43.190])
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23:02:49 <MrReach> heh, that rather sucked
23:02:56 <MrReach> good moment to get canced
23:06:37 <adu> arron
23:06:46 <adu> why did you version me
23:06:48 <adu> ?
23:08:25 <adu> i'm offended
23:08:29 <adu> o well
23:08:46 * MrReach fingers adu, "Offended now?"
23:08:58 <adu> huh?
23:09:01 <adu> o
23:09:04 <adu> haha
23:09:07 <adu> funny
23:18:43 <adu> well, i'm off
23:18:49 <adu> nice talkin to ya
23:18:51 <MrReach> ok, fare well
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23:50:25 <adu> hello again
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/00.12.11