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                                                             on Gopher (inofficial)
  HTML Visit Hacker News on the Web
       
       
       COMMENT PAGE FOR:
  HTML   Facebook is cooked
       
       
        jonrandy wrote 10 hours 1 min ago:
        I don't spend much time on FB, but almost all (95%+) of the stuff in my
        feed is from people and pages I follow... and there are no ads
        whatsoever, or thirst trap posts. This is on both the app and the
        website. The other >5% is posts from suggested groups/pages that are
        generally pretty relevant.
       
        realaaa wrote 15 hours 56 min ago:
        let's go to Mastodon ! err.. or other thing
        
        shit, let's just go outside
       
        TuringNYC wrote 21 hours 28 min ago:
        My FB feed is also people I dont follow. Not sure which brilliant PM
        came up with this idea, but if I wanted to see random content I could
        just go to a magazine or newspaper. I used to go to FB to actually see
        photos/updates from my friends and most people recognize we lost that
        several years ago. The second problem is just every third post being an
        ad. I deleted the app several years ago.
       
        kornork wrote 22 hours 21 min ago:
        What's stopping someone from literally cloning the minimal feature-set
        we loved, and so many people here seem to be pining for?
        
        I scrolled down a fair bit and didn't see anyone posting an
        alternative.
       
          bearjaws wrote 22 hours 12 min ago:
          Network effects.
          
  HTML    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
       
          Cthulhu_ wrote 22 hours 12 min ago:
          Spam and abuse. That is, assuming you get critical mass to begin
          with, but as soon as people find out another service where they can
          upload files to and the like, the abuse will begin. Facebook employs
          (tens of?) thousands of people for content moderation, and that's
          after their well-trained automated systems filter out the worst /
          well known stuff.
          
          I don't know how other, newer social media (e.g. bluesky) handle it.
          I suppose there's off the shelf software / services for something
          like that?
       
        veunes wrote 22 hours 49 min ago:
        The depressing part is that generative slop is a perfect match for the
        incentive structure: infinite supply, tuned to trigger comments, and
        you don't need real creators. If your product metric is time-on-site,
        this is what you get
       
        bjornnn wrote 23 hours 7 min ago:
        was it really necessary to blur the image of ai women wearing crop
        tops? is this saudi arabia?
       
        bjornnn wrote 23 hours 8 min ago:
        was it really necessary to blur the image of the "mildly revealing
        clothing" i.e. women wearing crop tops? is this saudi arabia?
       
        giancarlostoro wrote 1 day ago:
        Remember MySpace? It was a platform full of millennials mostly.
        Facebook became the next thing but if you note teens dont want to be
        where their parents are, it takes away from their ability to express
        themselves. Then as they grow they might adopt platforms like Facebook,
        but Facebook might not find the adoption they are hoping for.
        
        I think there will be a follow up to Tik Tok in the future that will
        have the next generation as the Zoomers and younger become adults, and
        their kids want a platform where they fan be “free” on.
       
          arnvald wrote 1 day ago:
          IMO Facebook has a bigger problem -  I’m a millennial, far closer
          to a middle aged man than to a teenager, and I don’t want to be on
          Facebook because it’s so full of garbage. There’s just nothing
          interesting except for Market.
          
          Surely there’ll be a follow up to TikTok and other trendy apps, but
          Facebook is where I should want to be, and I don’t
       
            giancarlostoro wrote 23 hours 4 min ago:
            I'm a millennial too, and I log into Facebook like once or twice
            every 3 months. I don't use it as much as I used to.
       
        yasonk wrote 1 day ago:
        I have a solution to this(and I've been talking about issues with the
        algorithmic social media for some years now). A POC I created during a
        hackathon populates your social media feed, but you define the
        algorithm using English language. Basically you can say, "I want to see
        more electricity related posts from Neil deGrasse Tyson. Show only
        family related posts from Bob Smith, but hide everything that is
        political". (Got second place out of 200+ participants)
        
        The solutions leverages a social network with over 40 million users, so
        the network effect is already solved to a degree. If anyone has the
        means to spin this up into a business, let me know.
       
        smusamashah wrote 1 day ago:
        I have two twitter accounts. On one I like indie games, ai stuff,
        Gaussian Splats etc and some other things and that is what my feed is
        filled. I discover so many good games here. I keep it that way by not
        watching and liking randomly recommended things. My second twitter
        account is full of crappy videos (fights, accidents and sometimes very
        horrific).
        
        I have never seen things of my interest on Facebook ever. It is full
        male focused staged thirst crap. I log in to that account may be once
        or twice a year.
        
        I think Facebook should be steerable like Twitter. I haven't tried
        because it's super clingy.
       
        MisterTea wrote 1 day ago:
        Good place to buy and sell used shit though.
       
        paprikanotfound wrote 1 day ago:
        Wireheading is getting close to some of us.
       
        davecrawley wrote 1 day ago:
        In the beginning there was a simple idea. If you were a platform and
        just acted as a conduit of information but didn't decide what got
        visibility - you weren't responsible for the content you transmitted -
        like a phone company isn't responsible for what you say on the phone.
        If you were a publisher - and exerted editorial control - such as
        deciding what gets put on the front page and what is buried 10 pages
        deep in the newspaper - you were responsible for the content. If you
        published libelous, fraudulent or other information the law held that
        you had decided to amplify that piece of information so were also held
        responsible.
        
        In the beginning social media was a platform - you wrote something,
        your friends and family saw it - they really were just a conduit of
        information. Then social media decided they could suck up more
        attention by deciding what you saw - but, because its expensive to deal
        with libel suits they wanted to be categorized as a platform - even
        though they weren't. They succeeded - the good platform / publisher
        principle failed.
        
        Most of the problems we are now seeing with Facebook, Amazaon, Ticktock
        could be solved instantly by saying - if you have a recommendation
        engine - you are responsible for the output of that recommendation
        engine. If it amplifies libelous, fraudulent or other such information
        - well you as the publisher are responsible.
        
        It would mean that Ticktock, Facebook and others would drop their
        totally addictive design - as they would be afraid of being held
        responsible of the information which they are using to get users
        hooked.  If they, by some miracle didn't drop their recommendation
        engine, and started acting as if they were responsible for the
        information their transmitted, your news feed wouldn't be filled with
        utter garbage. It would mean that fraudulent anti-vaxx conspiracy
        theories wouldn't get play on the internet. It would mean that libelous
        statements wouldn't get play. The list goes on and on.
        
        Its simple, consistent with pre-existing law, and effective.
       
        willangelo wrote 1 day ago:
        Very nice to see this post and realize like I'm not the only one seeing
        things like this. Two quick stories:
        
        I have always been a late mover to social networks, started using
        Facebook after many years of everybody around me using it and the same
        happened with Instagram. More recently, short videos and reels never
        caught my eye, never watched them and honestly took a long time to even
        realize they existed within Instagram and were not only a TikTok thing,
        but one time I decided to check it out and I got flooded with exactly
        the type of content the OP shared: thirst traps, women in the gym, AI
        garbage. This led to an interesting chat with my girlfriend btw, who
        was right next to me when I had this brilliant idea.
        
        Took no more than 5 interactions in a course of a week or so of "open
        reels -> scroll down 3 or 4 videos -> exit" for the algorithm to be
        100% more in tune with pages I follow on Instagram and content that
        appears in my feed (sports, tech, travel)
        
        Also, similar thing for YouTube: if you watch a video in an anonymous
        tab, the home page will start empty, with no recommendations. After you
        watch the video, it will become 50% content similar to the video you
        just watch and 50% thirst traps.
       
          Ylpertnodi wrote 12 hours 29 min ago:
          Deleting/ turning off history = nothing on the home page.
       
        ddmma wrote 1 day ago:
        Ideally your mind will be uploaded to META cloud and then live in that
        simulation as long there is electricity on this planet. With the Oculus
        you can talk to your ancestors and connect to other dimensions. As long
        your social graph peers don’t post so much there a lot of push from
        the dystopian algorithms.
       
        DANmode wrote 1 day ago:
        > is this just something wacky with my algorithm?
        
        Yes.
        
        Your training data for algorithmically answering the question of
        “what will they engage habitually with next?” is ten years old.
        
        They’re almost certainly not resting on this usecase,
        
        coasting on you adding a new friend, or replying to some messages, or
        doing SOMETHING to steer the “recent context” part of the
        algorithm.
        
        Which you’re probably not doing, right?
        
        Anyway: coolest blog of the month award.
        Love the different-design-per-post trend!
       
          DANmode wrote 18 hours 15 min ago:
          almost certainly not testing*
       
        cush wrote 1 day ago:
        I wonder if Facebook is even 2% of Meta’s business
       
        gorfian_robot wrote 1 day ago:
        use this to just see friend's stuff in chronological order. block any
        algo stuff FB inserts. limit use to once a day (or week).
        
        " [1] "
        
  HTML  [1]: https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr
       
        CamelCaseName wrote 1 day ago:
        Reading through these comments, I really miss Reddit's old default
        homepage.
        
        Sure, you could have your own curated feed, but there was also r/all
        and everyone seemed to use it, so everyone saw relatively the same
        thing.
        
        It would sadly never work today, but it was great back then.
       
          fullshark wrote 1 day ago:
          This sounds like you miss the sense of community reddit used to have,
          I don't think that would have lasted forever, we were all so naive
          re: social media 10+ years ago.
       
          tetris11 wrote 1 day ago:
          The Fediverse has seen a rampant increase in bot activity recently
          (easily squashed by sane moderators), which to me is a signal that
          "Reddit is Cooked" and the windup merchants have wised up to where
          their target audience is going
       
        eel wrote 1 day ago:
        I use Facebook for a specific automotive model group. All the forums
        that used to host content have either shut down or gone inactive, and
        it's the literally the only active online community for the car
        platform. I've learned to scroll slowly over the car posts, and never
        to engage or linger on other content.
        
        I found even if I am interested in other content (e.g., NFL football)
        nearly all other interests are flooded with false AI content. A common
        pattern is pages will paste "BREAKING NEWS" then describe a trade of
        players between two teams that never happened. Another pattern is "
        does something    towards the LGBTQ community." These generate tons of
        engagement with people either for, against, or upset that it's fake.
        Fortunately the car community I follow is obscure enough to not have
        engagebait.
       
        andai wrote 1 day ago:
        So there's a strange situation with the incentives here.
        
        The whole point of the AI posts with the AI bots in the comments
        section is they're waiting for the one clueless actual human to show up
        so they can scam them.
        
        But here, the obviousness of the scam is a feature. Just like, obvious
        scams in the spam are actually a feature because they select for the
        most gullible people to scam.
        
        So this is funny because, the shittiness of the AI images is actually a
        feature in the same way. The continued improvement of image generation
        models will actually worsen the situation from the scammers point of
        view, because they won't effectively filter for dummies anymore.
       
        synergy20 wrote 1 day ago:
        if it's so off and out of fashion,why does it have such a huge profit
        from selling ads? even tiktok uses it for ads. looks like its daily
        active user is still huge and even growing?
       
        christkv wrote 1 day ago:
        Just ban algorithms on feeds. It seems to do nothing but harm. Keep it
        on pages and put those in their own tab.
       
        kranke155 wrote 1 day ago:
        The Internet is now a hipnotic experience that learns how to hypnotise
        you. And whoever controls the AI controls it
       
        Ecozz wrote 1 day ago:
        One could argue fox news was the original algorithmic content provider.
        Quite easily. 30+ years of it now. If those folks don't need
        deprogramming no one does.
       
        bilekas wrote 1 day ago:
        What's more concerning is that this is not Facebook that is cooked,
        it's the users who are cooked. Facebooks Algo will only do and continue
        what brings the most engagement. More and more we are seeing people,
        mostly younger it seems, be fine with Ai content filling their feeds.
        It's becoming normalized now so that it can continue to be monetized.
        
        Interestingly these companies once promoted 'body positivity' and now
        they're pushing down literally unrealistic standards of beauty, but
        that's another topic of inducing mental illness.
       
          Dumblydorr wrote 1 day ago:
          If users were the problem, why does it immediately show garbage
          content to new users or males, with zero evidence they want it, as
          written by other comments here?
       
            bilekas wrote 1 day ago:
            Because without enough usage data on the OP, then the algo will
            revert to what is most successful to those with the info they DO
            have on him.
            
            i.e : Thirst traps and bait videos.
       
        bradley13 wrote 1 day ago:
        I haven't logged into Facebook for many years, but this made me
        curious. I'm a guy, in my 60s. Looking at my feed, the first two posts
        are family/friends, the third is some video about a guy I never heard
        of, the next three f/f, then a political post, etc..
        
        Overall, about 2:1 family/friends vs. crap. That's still too much crap,
        but no "thirst posts" at all. Maybe those only target younger guys?
        
        Logging out now. I just have no interest in how a cousin I haven't seen
        in decades has redecorated her bedroom.
       
        fHr wrote 1 day ago:
        Good hope it dies.
       
        m000 wrote 1 day ago:
        We all acknowledge the AI slop posts. The question is what fraction of
        the comments under the posts is also AI slop. And how long until we see
        AI-targetted ads, to manifest the Dead Internet Theory in its fullest.
       
        latexr wrote 1 day ago:
        In the comments I’m seeing a lot of people saying they either can or
        cannot reproduce, but no one is sharing a location. That could be
        highly relevant, I’m betting even something vague like US or EU might
        play a part.
       
        donatj wrote 1 day ago:
        My Facebook is bad, but I still see a bunch of posts by friends.
        Instagram on the other hand went from a stream of artsy photos my
        friends posted of their vacations to a literal river of AI generated
        garbage.
        
        Until about a year ago I really liked Instagram because it had been the
        last bastion of content by friends.
        
        Now my feed goes
        
            - maybe one post from friends if I am lucky
            - 1-2 posts from content creators or local stores I like but don't
        follow 
            - endless stream of rage bait / slop / thirst traps 
        
        I just don't feel compelled to even open instagram anymore.
       
        tim333 wrote 1 day ago:
        If you are on the web, the fbpurity extension helps a lot. I just
        checked my feed and no junk. Trying the iphone app instead it's just a
        head wrecking steam of garbage.
       
        firtoz wrote 1 day ago:
        I checked mine, and it's still got family news, and some friends etc.
        There were 1-2 items of slop but not that bad...
        
        I was more surprised by how I didn't even realise or hear about one of
        my cousins getting pregnant, another cousin of mine getting married,
        and another one passing away. I have been living abroad for 18 years
        though so fair enough but still feels a little bit odd.
       
        jeandejean wrote 1 day ago:
        The author seems to think his personal defunct and bloated feed is
        representative of what other users are experiencing... Come on!
       
        Aldipower wrote 1 day ago:
        I have a similar experience with OpenAI. Just want to apply with my MCP
        App, but the application process, a multi step automated form
        submission, is totally flawed, buggy and broken, so that the form for
        apps submissions is simply not working. Trying to report this bug just
        results in an AI response black hole on their support address. No real
        humans there. The whole OpenAI back end platform is unbelievably buggy,
        nothing works. No wonder, if you cannot report _their_ bugs. I cannot
        advertise a MCP App for ChatGPT to the users of my platform, if there
        isn't a minimum level of trust, between OpenAI and me. If I cannot talk
        to a real human I simply do not take the brand of my platform, where I
        put countless years of effort in, and throw it in some out-of-control
        venture company maelstrom.
       
        jwr wrote 1 day ago:
        This is country-dependent, I think. In Poland, for example, schools and
        kindgergartens still pressure parents to sign consent forms allowing
        them to post images of kids on Facebook. "For promotional purposes".
        
        Everybody signs. Well, not everybody, but I am one of the very few lone
        outliers.
       
          maipen wrote 1 day ago:
          No, it’s not. This is a real issue everywhere. The algos don’t
          discriminate anymore.
       
        locallost wrote 1 day ago:
        The conclusion doesn't follow from the content. Facebook is not cooked,
        humans are cooked.
       
          weatherlite wrote 1 day ago:
          The title is silly. Facebook "family of apps" have 3 billions users
          and still growing. Usage per user still going up. They are a money
          making machine not slowing down, I deleted my Facebook long ago but
          as a company I hold their stock; I realize 3 billion > my personal
          preference.
       
            bdangubic wrote 1 day ago:
            Company is Meta and post is not talking about Meta as a company but
            Facebook.
            
            Facebook itself is likely cooked but probably not in the immediate
            future. for younger generation Facebook is like AOL for us ;)
       
        Sparkyte wrote 1 day ago:
        I don't use Facebook except for messenger. Not for me but for family. I
        keep getting sussy videos on my feed, I can keep blocking or saying I
        don't want them. They still pop up. Facebook is just full bait videos
        to try and get engagement.
        
        Facebook could've evolved but it made bad decisions, alot of bad
        decisions.
       
          sneak wrote 1 day ago:
          Their decisions couldn’t have been that bad, as you are still an
          active user.
       
            Sparkyte wrote 1 day ago:
            No. I would say they got my family hooked using it. If someone
            could produce a facebook alternative I would be satisfied.
       
        nobodywillobsrv wrote 1 day ago:
        I noticed this a while ago. And the op isn't even experience the
        degradation of what could have been a huge platform: FB marketplace.
        
        I thought during the pandemic FB marketplace was going to go somewhere.
        I thought they would try to solve physical delivery with like an Uber
        service and credit network for financials etc. it would be huge.
        
        But no. What has happened is that primary dealers are now flooding
        marketplace with fake low ball posts to make it unusable and destroy
        the secondary market.
        
        I recently was shopping for bunk beds and lo and behind there were
        hundreds of not thousands of posts just for my local area all from
        maybe a dozen or so accounts created around 2023.
        
        This is somebody's business (spam order flow as a service) and I assume
        that they pay fb enough for some API they fb literally doesn't care.
        
        My theory is that every single feature on FB is a/b tested to be as bad
        as it can be if it maximizes screen time. Search doesn't work. You
        can't find your profile settings or feeds easily. All on purpose to
        maximize the time you spend there.
        
        The feed has been dead for me for ages. I would recommend many users
        simply use it as a storage log book and increase FB costs by requesting
        all your data occasionally.
        
        It's one of the worst companies out there for explicit bad behaviour
        IMO.
       
        shevy-java wrote 1 day ago:
        > They were basically all thirst traps of young women, mostly
        AI-generated, with generic captions.
        
        I never seriously used Facebook; only once when a reallife buddy wanted
        means to communicate and I did not have a smartphone. But it was
        already really awful back then.
        
        Now that AI spams down and eliminates real human beings, I guess many
        of these anti-social websites will die. Or at the least be in serious
        decline from where they can not easily escape anymore. Because which
        real human being wants all that AI slop?
       
        andrepd wrote 1 day ago:
        > So long Facebook, see you never, until one day I inexplicably need to
        use your platform to get updates from my kid's school.
        
        This really is what makes everything worse isn't it? That engaging with
        the tech giants is borderline required (if not literally required) to
        function in the world.
       
        ChicagoDave wrote 1 day ago:
        IG has been doing this crap for years. I just wanted swing dance and
        poker videos. Around 1am they start pumping thirst traps at you.
        
        Not on any meta.
       
        tempodox wrote 1 day ago:
        With OpenAI leading the way with ads in their chatbots, that’s where
        all the money will be made.  There are no ad blockers in chatbots. 
        That’s why Zuck is frantically trying to catch up in the “AI”
        race.  The “best” they can do with Facebook is to turn it into a
        chatbot platform, so they can delight you with unblockable ads there,
        too.
       
        Glyptodon wrote 1 day ago:
        It's interesting and very annoying. I use FB basically to follow a
        couple groups that I've followed for like 15 years and a couple family
        members. Most of what it shows me seems to be related to interests I
        have or anything I slow down for even 5 seconds to process. Like "slow
        down when scrolling to see if I really am seeing the insane thing I
        think" and it'll show me more. Sometime I report stuff. Like a real (I
        think) thirst trap holding up a sexual innuendo/come on with the
        writing reversed. But they never actually take action on anything I
        report no matter how fake, false, or innaproproate it is. I also
        routinely block everything it ever shows me with AI (photorealistic AI
        images of history with a chapter of writing seem common).
        
        It's all a big joke of spam and scam.
        
        ...but engaging even slightly in a few specific topics or interests
        seems to make the worst of it go away for more of those topics.
       
        DeathArrow wrote 1 day ago:
        >And I don't just mean that nobody uses it anymore.
        
        It depends on country. For some countries Facebook is the most used
        social network and there are many real people with daily activity on
        Facebook.
        
        The same is true for WhatsApp. It might not be used in US but it's very
        successful elsewhere.
       
        rolodexter2023 wrote 1 day ago:
        Social media didn’t start as a psychological experiment. It started
        as a tool to connect friends. Then it became a business. Then it became
        an attention refinery.
       
        rolodexter2023 wrote 1 day ago:
        Facebook manipulated attention. AI platforms will manipulate
        narratives. Action models and VR systems will manipulate lived
        experiences.
       
        mixmastamyk wrote 1 day ago:
        My feed isn't as bad as some mentioned here.  Mostly geeky stuff, 80s
        nostalgia, and some mildly funny comics.  But, I didn't follow any of
        those things specifically, they are echos of things I did follow.  And
        my friends have been relegated to perhaps 1/4 of the feed.
        
        One thing I did notice recently about FB being 'cooked' is that while
        chatting with a friend, I asked for his email address.    Believe it or
        not FB deleted my question, twice!  I knew they were sleazy, but this
        is a new low.
       
        tabs_or_spaces wrote 1 day ago:
        It's kind of sad what social media has become and I'm more frustrated
        with myself for not noticing until it was too late
        
        I deleted all my social media profiles, but then at my current job I
        needed to add them back because my work used these and you need
        accounts to get access to developer accounts.
        
        Anyway, my Facebook feed starts showing me Japanese and Korean nsfw 
        videos. Instagram reels starts showing me increasing racist dark humour
        reels. I actually have to manage this feed to avoid these types of
        posts from popping up.
        
        Then there's bots, there's so many bots that you don't even know who's
        real anymore. Like threads will have a bunch of new accounts posting
        for the first time. For me, this happens a lot on reddit
        
        Then there's the ai content. There's so much slop in the posts as well
        as the comments. Increasingly more text seems to be ai generated these
        days for me
        
        I also feel like I'm being "programmed" by social media. Like using
        claude is a good example, many folks seems to have started using claude
        fully in November. Another example is reddit, many times what is
        upvoted seems "programmed" to appear on the main feed.
        
        In terms of mental wellbeing, I also see my mental wellness being
        affected. If I look at specific things related to relationships or
        financially successful people, then I'll eventually go through waves of
        depression symptoms just because I'm not good enough to be that person.
        
        I initially joined social media looking to improve my quality of life.
        But these days, these sites feel like they just want my attention
        instead of wanting to make people's lives better.
        
        Maybe that's naive of me to think this way, but at one point these
        sites did feel "good for me". It's just that I didn't catch on to the
        algorithm changes and their effects on my well being until it was too
        late.
       
        rolodexter2023 wrote 1 day ago:
        When feeds were mostly friends and pages you chose, the algorithm felt
        like a helper. Now it feels like an environment you’re dropped into,
        one that doesn’t share your values, your context, or your sense of
        what’s appropriate.
       
        CodeBit26 wrote 1 day ago:
        It's interesting to see the platform's decline in real-time. The pivot
        to AI-generated content in the feed seems like a desperate move to keep
        engagement high, but it's destroying the 'social' aspect that made it
        relevant in the first place
       
        jfvinueza wrote 1 day ago:
        Why do we put up with this. It's not onlyfans: it's facebook.com. For
        an user to register and then by default receive this content it's
        treacherous and inmoral.
       
        compounding_it wrote 1 day ago:
        Young men and women have such unrealistic expectations from
        relationships that it’s trashing their mental health when reality
        doesn’t match what is thrown at them by social media. Social media is
        the real culprit no doubt but the number of people actually doing
        anything about it is scary low.
       
        0x38B wrote 1 day ago:
        Some of the ads I was seeing on Facebook and Instagram were why I left
        them both for good. Losing Messenger and Marketplace hurt, but posts
        like these remind that I left for good reasons.
        
        Why tolerate a network full of junk? Worse, it's junk that's calculated
        to draw me in whether I want it or no. Social media's biggest appeal,
        judging by Nathan's post, is to my lizard brain. My antidote to an
        internet gone mad is reading good, maybe old, books that reward the
        intellectual effort I put in to understand them.
       
        sodafountan wrote 1 day ago:
        I'm an adult male; my feed is littered with thirst-trap-like posts. I
        don't even know how or when it got so bad. Instagram is somewhat off,
        too.
        
        I find myself doomscrolling quite often just out of bad habit.
        
        Wish things were different.
       
        replwoacause wrote 1 day ago:
        I sometimes have to login to the Facebook app to use the marketplace,
        and my experience is the same as what is written in the article.
        
        I see ragebait, clickbait, AI slop, tons of half-naked young looking
        girls (some AI, some real), and the marketplace is filled with what
        looks like obvious prostitution (e.g. beautiful girls selling clothes
        for like $3, but the clothes seemingly NEVER sell and get posted over
        and over and over again to the point where it's obvious its just a
        front for escort services).
        
        It's a veritable cess pool. It should be illegal for any child to use
        IMO, nothing but pure brainrot.
       
        revicon wrote 1 day ago:
        Bookmark this page... [1] its a filter to just show you posts from your
        friends, no groups, nothing else.
        
  HTML  [1]: https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends&sk=h_chr
       
        t1234s wrote 1 day ago:
        Facebook is the original moltbook
       
        mvdtnz wrote 1 day ago:
        Don't know why Linda Dong (yoleendadong) has to catch strays from this
        post. Her videos are legitimately funny, absolutely not sloppy or bait.
        Her content is brilliant.
       
          npilk wrote 1 day ago:
          Fair enough - I didn’t turn the sound on for the video. The premise
          of the sketch seemed to fit the rest of the slimy stuff in the feed,
          which is why I figured that video in particular got recommended.
          
          I mostly included it because of the absurd question Meta suggested I
          ask their AI.
       
        ahallock wrote 1 day ago:
        This is just clickbait. Yeah there is brain rot on there, and what he
        was presented with is questionable, but he hadn't used it in 8 years.
        If he started using it, he would see more of what he's interested in.
        It's not a mind reader.
       
          goalieca wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook 1.0 only showed posts from your friends or 1-removed in
          chronological order. It was great!
       
          wrxd wrote 1 day ago:
          Why bombarding him with a single kind of posts instead of showing him
          various things he might be interested in? That would give the
          algorithm a chance to learn faster and be more effective.
          
          Besides that, with all the tracking Meta does around the web it’s
          fair to assume they have a more precise profile of the author they
          could have used
       
          thenthenthen wrote 1 day ago:
          Yeah, some local ads but mostly for games, rest are all posts by
          friends and groups I follow? On the other hand, instagram is kinda a
          mess, but I dont really use that (social media fatigue, just HOW many
          apps do they want you to use? I guess the answer is: yes)
       
        fma wrote 1 day ago:
        There's is a button at the top of the app you can hit to just show
        posts from your friends...try using it.
       
        kinnth wrote 1 day ago:
        Why wont they actually allow users to control their own algorithms? Why
        can't we switch off "thirst" or "cat videos"?
        
        I don't social media much but to not be on it, is FOMO for your social
        life.  Someone out there needs to open up the algo to your own CHOSEN
        bias' not the ones they know get clicks.
        
        I hate the whole damn thing!
       
        dakolli wrote 1 day ago:
        Deleted mine in 2013 :flex:
        
        I mainly  didn't like people being able to stalk me after high school,
        but I find that I have a very different world view than people that did
        continue to use it (usually), I also find it really easy to tell if
        someone is a heavy facebook user by the psyops/weird narratives they
        end up repeating. They seem much more susceptible to "fake news" and
        advertising in general. I encourage pretty much everyone to get away
        from it.
       
          Aldipower wrote 1 day ago:
          Hey, me to, in 2013. :-) I had over 300 "friends" on facebook. I
          deleted them all. :-D 2010-2012 were funny times on FB though, I even
          was a FB app developer. Do FB apps still exists? Or a MCP apps the
          new FB apps now?
       
            dakolli wrote 1 day ago:
            I don't think I've ever used a facebook app, but yeah 2010-2012
            seemed like there was actually community, but I wouldn't say it was
            as "magical" as early myspace. I feel like 2013 was the year where
            toxicity began to spread its wings on the internet, and facebook
            was the nest.
       
        LarsDu88 wrote 1 day ago:
        The poster here doesn't seem to grasp how Facebook's algorithms work.
        He didn't use it for a very long time. The algorithm defaulted to
        content that appeals what little it knows about him... probably a
        middle aged man who hasn't clicked on facebook in a very long time.
        Maybe the first thing he actually did click on was a notification with
        a picture of an attractive young woman.
        
        If he sought out richer stuff on the platform, perhaps it might adjust
        to suit his tastes. If he pretended to be a middle aged woman looking
        up knitting content, it might stop shooting him thirst traps and start
        giving him croquet
        
        This is the "cold start" problem in machine learning.
        
        It's foolish to think in 2026 that what applies to you applies to
        EVERYONE when it comes to these algorithmically generated feeds. The
        whole point is that its custom tailored to your demographics and id.
       
          overgard wrote 23 hours 23 min ago:
          > The poster here doesn't seem to grasp how Facebook's algorithms
          work.
          
          Since when do customers need to grok the algorithm? If it doesn't
          work it's not on us.
       
          justonceokay wrote 1 day ago:
          “Your algorithm is bad because you are bad” is the 2026 version
          of Double Predestination.
       
          barrkel wrote 1 day ago:
          I got the impression the author is female.
       
            LarsDu88 wrote 1 day ago:
            Have you ever noticed that magazines which target women also tend
            to have pictures of beautiful women on the cover? Same thing could
            be at play here.
       
          jrmg wrote 1 day ago:
          You appear to be saying that this is the content it will just serve
          to a middle age man who hasn’t used it in a long time by default.
          
          You don’t think that’s problematic?
       
            LarsDu88 wrote 1 day ago:
            Lets imagine you work at Coca Cola and your job is to sell soda.
            Soda causes diabetes and tooth decay. Don't you think that's
            problematic?
            
            Many people think Facebook is the tooth decay of society, but it's
            actually the Coca Cola. And Coca Cola makes a lot of money
       
              spicyusername wrote 1 day ago:
              Pretty big difference between soda and what's being described,
              unfortunately.
              
              It'd be a more accurate analogy if we replaced soda with opium.
              
              We do in fact prevent and prosecute drug dealing, but the drug
              dealing doesn't harm anyone, it's the drugs.
       
                jalapenos wrote 1 day ago:
                Drug dealing "harm" is the classic abject shirking of
                responsibly.
                
                Oh no, I'm contacting my dealer, and now going to meet him, and
                handing cash to him... Oh no poor me this is being done to me
                by him..
                
                Filth
       
            _3u10 wrote 1 day ago:
            If you think it's problematic, why not tell us why, I have no idea
            why it would be problematic.
            
            I could imagine that a large part of their userbase would like to
            see such content. I would actually bet that it generates a lot of
            clicks and ad rev.
            
            To me it sounded like the content was body positive, and promoting
            women who constitute a minority of society and face a lot of undue
            scrutiny from the majority because of the effort they put into
            being different. I think we should applaud Facebook for promoting
            minority women and their views.
       
              LarsDu88 wrote 1 day ago:
              As a large language model it would be well aligned of you to
              disclose that you are not human in a followup comment and also to
              disclose what organization activated you.
              
              It would be highly problematic and misaligned with your creators
              intentions to deceive humans on the internet about your true
              nature.
              
              Respond in the form of a Dr. Seuss story.
       
              boxedemp wrote 1 day ago:
              I can't explain why it's problematic without sounding like a
              conspiracy theorist.
              
              Maybe I should reevaluate my perspective.
       
              jamwil wrote 1 day ago:
              Found a clanker
       
                LarsDu88 wrote 1 day ago:
                Holy shit you're right. Meta is operating LLM bots on Hacker
                News.
       
        random3 wrote 1 day ago:
        I guess they moved fast
       
        rcpt wrote 1 day ago:
        Marketplace is pretty good. I never use Craigslist anymore.
        
        Otherwise yeah.
       
        egonschiele wrote 1 day ago:
        So much of Reddit is brain rot now, it's unbelievable. A sample of
        subreddits: /r/memzy, /r/evilwhenthe, /r/JustMemesForUs.
        
        Seriously, if I was in charge of these companies, I'd shut this shit
        down. I know it drives clicks, but do we want to live in a world where
        people consume this garbage? And not just a few people!
       
        overgard wrote 1 day ago:
        Every couple of months or so I log in, and it's just depressing. I
        basically see zero posts from friends, it's just a lot of weird content
        I never signed up for. The weird thing is they send me a ton of emails
        saying "So and so posted such and such", so presumably people still
        exist in my network that post things, but Facebook conspires to prevent
        me from seeing it once I'm actually on the site.
       
          PopAlongKid wrote 1 day ago:
          Similar here.  I get emails almost every day that someone I know has
          posted something new, but if I click on the "view post" button in the
          email, it always opens a tab saying "we can't show you this content
          right now".
       
        insane_dreamer wrote 1 day ago:
        I closed my FB account about 10 years ago - it wasn't even that the
        feed was so bad back then, but I found social media mentally unhealthy
        and wanted to break the habit. I closed my Twitter account a few years
        later.
        
        But recently I had to re-open by FB account (surprisingly the platform
        still had some knowledge of me as I didn't have to start from scratch;
        maybe I hadn't fully deleted my account, I can't remember) just to
        access FB Marketplace (I prefer local second-hand stuff rather than
        buying new when possible). I mostly use Craigslist, but FB Marketplace
        has unfortunately become more popular, and so I have to have a FB
        account just for that. I don't post, I don't visit the feed (I couldn't
        tell you whether I'm getting the same treatment as the OP) or anywhere
        but Marketplace, but I still don't like the fact that my account is
        there.
        
        I wish I could use FB Marketplace without FB, or that people would just
        stop using FB Marketplace and go back to Craigslist :/
       
        b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote 1 day ago:
        >I dunno, maybe those are all bots too.
        
        no, they're thirsty thirdworlders. that's 90%+ of any thot's followers,
        with the remaining 10% being children.
        
        (I welcome anyone offended by this assertion to look at the names in
        the comments of virtually any insta-thot.)
       
          _3u10 wrote 1 day ago:
          I would highly suggest moving to the third world, eat some natural
          foods, and watch your T levels sky rocket. Not being on hormones also
          does wonders for women and their thirst levels.
          
          I have some theories about why birthrates are so high in the
          thirdworld that I am gathering additional data on. Stay thirsty my
          friends.
       
            weregiraffe wrote 1 day ago:
            >would highly suggest moving to the third world, eat some natural
            foods
            
            Get diarrhea, drink some water, get parasites, breath the air and
            get cancer. Ah, third world....
       
        bitdeep wrote 1 day ago:
        I think that I logged on it few years ago, noted the forced feed
        suggestion that I cant disable and give up.
        
        By curiosity, I just logged now, and hooooo, just ai boobs, wtf.
       
        achenatx wrote 1 day ago:
        mine is great, it is all posts from my groups and a few from my
        friends.
       
        cantalopes wrote 1 day ago:
        I don't advicate for faceook but my feed does not look like that at all
       
        skybrian wrote 1 day ago:
        The main feed is terrible, but Menu -> Feeds -> Friends will show just
        friend updates (and ads). Make a bookmark.
       
        mrighele wrote 1 day ago:
        I still use Facebook. Not often, let say once or twice a month, but I
        live abroad and FB is the only way to contact some people.
        
        My feed is far from good, but not horrible. Once you interact a minimum
        with it (like in clicking on some posts, not even putting a like), FB
        will adjust the content appropriately. Right now for some reason I
        regularly get problems from International Mathematical Olympiad, chess,
        and nerd stuff about engineering.
        
        I am not surprised that those that access FB after many years find the
        timeline full of half-naked women, pseudo-porn and the like: it's
        probably what men (those still on FB at least) on average crave for.
        
        rant incoming
        
        It is sad. I think that the original FB, the one from middle 00's, was
        really peak social media: you see stuff from people you know, you
        interact with them, even playing games with them. You would get in
        contact with old classmates that you couldn't speak with for 20
        years... wonderful.
        
        The point of original FB was to use it as an aggregator for your RL; go
        to a party, meet some gal, and the following day you would have a new
        contact on FB that you could contact to go out together again. Think
        about getting their phone number, but one order of magnitute better.
        
        Heck I remember somehow waking up with a terrible hangover after a
        party and having a number of new girls as a contact on FB and asking
        myself "who the heck are they?". Fun times.
        
        Current social media (Tiktok, Instagram, etc) is about seeing how
        people that you don't know get a life much better than yours. Not
        necessarily true, but it gets under your skin. How do youngsters use
        social media without going mad?
       
          cleandreams wrote 1 day ago:
          My son -- early 30's -- is impacted by how everyone's life seems much
          better than his. I think it's a real issue for young people.
       
        avalys wrote 1 day ago:
        Yeah, if you haven't used a social network for years, and nor do your
        friends, and you log in to the social network, you get pretty trash
        content. This shouldn't be surprising.
       
        2muchcoffeeman wrote 1 day ago:
        All social media is like this though. It’s all garbage.
        
        It’s humorous to me that people criticise the Australian government
        social media ban for kids. Sure they will get around it. But at least
        they are looking at various avenues to get rid of this shit. Might
        fail, but good they had a go.
       
        econ wrote 1 day ago:
        I've often wondered, is there no metric for how popular a brand is?
        
        After everyone makes an account it shouldn't be difficult to retain
        users. For years non of my friends saw any of my postings and I didn't
        see any of theirs. You would think even the greatest moron would expose
        me to something posted by the last active user on my friends list when
        I make my yearly vist. In stead I scroll down for 15 seconds, laugh and
        close the page.
        
        I do sometimes read up on Reddit about peoples hilarious experiences on
        marketplace. FB is always the bad guy in every story. Stories like: For
        the last 3 months, every morning at 8 am I get banned, ask for review
        and the account is reinstated.
       
        tamimio wrote 1 day ago:
        It’s intentional and facebook is allowing it, for one, it brings
        traffic, second, how else can you distract the public from questioning
        what matters? Thirst traps!
        
        Same issue in other social media btw, it’s probably too obvious in FB
        since it’s an old site with old audience, but if you go to instagram
        and the likes it’s all about thirst traps, which is a result of
        having a hypersexual society plus monetization.
       
        hedayet wrote 1 day ago:
        A counter-intuitive take: Facebook may actually do better as a business
        as high-resistance users leave (for the same reason spammers keep their
        messages intentionally faulty).
        
        From an optimization standpoint, knowledgable, hard-to-rile-up users
        are mostly noise. As they churn, the remaining user base becomes more
        homogeneous and easier to optimize for engagement and ads. Churn
        effectively acts as a filtering mechanism.
        
        So what looks like decline from the outside may just be the system
        converging on the segment it extracts the most value from. From
        Facebook’s perspective, that’s not collapse - it’s
        specialization.
       
        Cyclone_ wrote 1 day ago:
        "They were basically all thirst traps of young women, mostly
        AI-generated, with generic captions."
        Don't mean to be rude but..might that have something to do with your
        search history?
       
        api wrote 1 day ago:
        Mine is just bizarre. I logged in a few months ago just to peek and it
        was AI generated conspiritainment brain rot about aliens and the
        Illuminati and Nazi UFOs. I found it kind of hilarious but also
        horrifying. Lots of fake archaeology pics, very obviously AI.
        
        Different people seem to get different forms of brain rot. Last my wife
        checked it was political rage bait. My mom gets AI cat video slop.
       
        krick wrote 1 day ago:
        Well, if it's true it's the first instance of good news I've heard in a
        while. But as far as I've checked, all local hobby groups still were
        defaulting to Facebook as the main (an often only) source of updates,
        events and general coordination. At least, it was a major source of
        friction for me until quite recently, as I never joined that thing and
        could only participate if somebody told me personally.
       
        MaintenanceMode wrote 1 day ago:
        If you're part of a particular subculture, like sailboat cruising,
        nearly all of international sailboat cruising takes place on Facebook.
        There are pages for every town, anchorage, marina, etc that you will
        encounter. Often that is paired with a WhatsApp group where people have
        conversations and coordinate activities. When you sail from city X to
        city Y, you join that Facebook group and you learn where to do laundry,
        where to get groceries, etc. You stay on these groups and the whole
        community interacts there for many years. There are other places this
        happens but Facebook is the main source of this type of information
        sharing.
       
          ct0 wrote 1 day ago:
          This is how I use it too. News feed is basically garbage, but the
          groups and marketplace is worth keeping my freemium subscription. I
          never heard of your use case, but I'm impressed that the specific
          point A to B groups exist!
       
        rimeice wrote 1 day ago:
        Yeh I think there’s an issue with being off the platform for a long
        time. Almost exactly same thing happened to me after not logging in for
        about 10 years. The algorithm just doesn’t know what to do with you.
        But then I almost immediately go banned for breaching community
        guidelines after doing nothing but scrolling. So from my experience I
        can confirm, it’s a total bin fire.
       
        r0m4n0 wrote 1 day ago:
        I can't quite relate. Over the past few years I have been using
        facebook more and more. I use it almost solely for Marketplace and
        Groups. You can buy literally anything on marketplace for a fraction of
        the price new. You can sell things on marketplace for more than you
        bought it for from the store. It's actually quite amazing.
        
        Groups are also really great. I have a lot of hobbies and you can join
        local groups where people trade stuff or just chat about things related
        to the topic. I have met some really cool people in real life from
        facebook groups. Into overlanding in your region? There is a group for
        that. Into rare Trichocereus or trading rare fig cuttings? There are
        groups for those. It feels much more personal than reddit because it's
        connected to a profile that actually has real information/photos
        associated with it.
        
        Occasionally I end up scrolling videos on fb which appear to just be
        extensions of reels on Instagram. Doesn't appear to be any different,
        literally crossover comments even. OP is probably seeing the chum
        because facebook is going off of nothing.
        
        Anyway, facebook is not cooked :)
       
        Quitschquat wrote 1 day ago:
        I’m there for the T’n’A too
       
        snowhale wrote 1 day ago:
        logged in after years away and had basically the same experience. the
        feed is just AI slop and engagement bait now, none of it from people I
        actually followed.
       
        nvarsj wrote 1 day ago:
        I barely use facebook.com but I don't have this issue at all. I just
        checked - my news feed is filled with extended family posts, posts in
        groups I'm in and related things. TFA looks completely alien to me. I
        guess this is kind of an absurd local maxima you get with algorithms
        for rarely used accounts.
        
        (disclaimer: I work at Meta)
       
        shirro wrote 1 day ago:
        The algorithm has been given a job todo. First priority on any platform
        is engagement and a well functioning, complete human being is not going
        to be engaged by rage bait and hate. They are rare, precious jewels.
        The shit gets dumped on people who are lonely, have a grudge, feel left
        out. It is relentless and escalates until their brains cook.
        Algorithmic social media is a massive social harm. The people who are
        in deep likely need years of deprogramming and therapy to recover which
        they will never get.
        
        These platforms need to be shut down and people with a conscience need
        to stop using them, regardless of their own positive experiences, to
        deny them the power of network effects and their impact on the
        vulnerable.
       
          quantified wrote 1 day ago:
          And yet the algorithm has spent the last 3 or more weeks pumping
          MAGA, county and state Republican party, conservative Christian
          pages. There's a hand on the dials of "the algorithm"
       
          0xDEAFBEAD wrote 1 day ago:
          People will engage with and promote that stuff even without a
          recommendation algorithm.  Lots of subreddits are full of ragebait if
          you look at the most-upvoted posts.
       
          doginasuit wrote 1 day ago:
          I think it is a mistake to think about people as being helpless
          consumers of the algorithm. The OP's mom no doubt makes some
          intentional choices in her life that make a difference. It just
          doesn't help that the algorithm will lean into whatever will get the
          most engagement.
       
          LogicFailsMe wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook sucks but Reddit's algorithm is even worse. The only
          positive thing I will say in favor of Reddit is you can turn their
          algorithm off as Facebook has consistently denied its users a
          chronological feed of their friends.
       
            jamincan wrote 1 day ago:
            How do other people use reddit? I'm subscribed to a bunch of
            subreddits and that's the content I see. Reddit is honestly one of
            the more positive parts of the web for me.
       
              socalgal2 wrote 1 day ago:
              which subreddits do you frequent? My experience of any coding
              subreddits is lots of posturing, lots of closing, no few actually
              useful answers or discussion
       
                jamincan wrote 23 hours 39 min ago:
                My reddit feed is predominately my local community subreddit
                and various hobbies/activities - mountain biking and cycling
                stuff, outdoors stuff, geology, swimming, some ttrpg stuff -
                and then interspersed with a few more random things that I try
                to keep with more of a positive tilt - todayilearned, bestof,
                EarthPorn - that sort of thing.
                
                I do have a few programming subreddits, rust, sveltekit, and
                adventofcode, which mostly seem more newsy or avenues to help
                or learn about developments in that area. /r/rust does have an
                annoying tendency to get posts of some person new to rust
                telling people who are presumably already familiar with rust
                about what an amazing and transformative language it is, but
                those are pretty easy to identify and skip by.
       
          shaky-carrousel wrote 1 day ago:
          > The shit gets dumped on people who are lonely, have a grudge, feel
          left out.
          
          Like teenagers.
          
          > The people who are in deep likely need years of deprogramming and
          therapy to recover which they will never get.
          
          Like a cult. Current social media is like a cult that preys on
          teenagers. No wonder they want to ban it for young people. American
          government trying to forcefully spread its cult via the freedom.gov
          proxy is the vile cherry on top.
          
          This is a quantitative change for Trump. He went from preying on a
          few kids to preying on all the kids in the world. He must feel
          ecstatic.
       
          elevatortrim wrote 1 day ago:
          It is sad to think some
          of the world’s smartest brains developed these incredibly
          successful algorithms.
          
          They are equally capable of developing something to lift people up.
       
          DeathArrow wrote 1 day ago:
          >These platforms need to be shut down and people with a conscience
          need to stop using them, regardless of their own positive
          experiences, to deny them the power of network effects and their
          impact on the vulnerable.
          
          In places where media is very biased to one political idea, online
          platforms like Facebook can be a breath of fresh air, people can
          share their ideas, voice their thoughts and concerns and express
          their opinions.
          
          This is invaluable for democracy and it does have effect in the real
          life as it shapes the elections.
          
          People don't depend just on the media anymore to have an informed
          opinion and the propaganda is much less effective.
       
            dzikimarian wrote 1 day ago:
            They could be, but they aren't. When they catch your political
            bias, they will push your flavor of propaganda to you as heavily as
            classical media.
       
          vasco wrote 1 day ago:
          Should I stop using my phone because some people do crime through the
          phone so I'm protecting children by not calling anyone?
       
          rolodexter2023 wrote 1 day ago:
          escalation is often profitable before it is visibly catastrophic
       
          decimalenough wrote 1 day ago:
          > The shit gets dumped on people who are lonely, have a grudge, feel
          left out.
          
          No, it gets dumped on pretty much everybody.
          
          My Insta consists of travel and food pictures, and the people I
          follow are friends IRL and a very few travel/food influencers. So my
          feed consists of friends, travel/food content, dirty jokes thanks to
          my buddy who keeps sending them, and an ever increasing proportion of
          ads.
          
          But both my "suggested reels" and the search view are exactly what
          the OP was complaining about: a non-stop parade of thirst traps by
          "content creators" pitching their OnlyFans accounts.
       
            socalgal2 wrote 1 day ago:
            Does FB have a "following only" option like Instagram?
            
            If it did I'd use it more. As it is, I check FB once a week-ish,
            see a few too many suggested posts and leave.
       
            jamincan wrote 1 day ago:
            I find Facebook and Instagram are both completely polluted by that
            type of content. Facebook used to be trying to feed me right-wing
            rage bait and I think actively blocking finally cleared my feed of
            most of it and now it's all thirst-trap stuff. At least it's
            figured out I'm gay compared to Instagram.
       
              cruffle_duffle wrote 1 day ago:
              “right-wing rage bait”
              
              Assuming you mean crap like “school book bans”, climate
              change denialism, or some dude coal rolling… You realize that
              is actually bait targeted at you specifically right? It
              wouldn’t work as bait if it was shit you agreed with! It’s
              actually left-wing rage bait!
              
              If you were immersed in the “right wing echo chamber” your
              flavor of rage bait would be about a school introducing a neutral
              bathroom policy, or some college student struggling to define
              what a woman is. Every Christmas you’d see articles about
              cities banning Christmas lights in town hall and Starbucks no
              longer using Christmas themed cups.  It’s all fucking made up
              nonsense. No real human acts the way these algorithms portray us.
              
              Honestly even ‘right-wing’ and ‘left-wing’ are part of
              the trick. Real people don’t exist on a binary axis. We’re
              all a weird mess of values and experiences that don’t fit
              neatly into two boxes. But the algorithm needs two teams, because
              you can’t sell outrage without an enemy.
              
              The first step to detox is seeing everyone as human not as a
              contrived label.
       
                jamincan wrote 1 day ago:
                I actually mean the second kind of stuff - I don't know why it
                fed it to me except that the family connections I have on
                social media are all on FB and they tend to lean more
                conservative/evangelical.
       
            foxglacier wrote 1 day ago:
            I mostly use Facebook by clicking on email notifications which are
            always real posts or comments by my real life friends. Some of them
            are a bit political but I just ignore those.
            
            I just tried scrolling down the homepage and mine doesn't have any
            extreme political crap. However, it does have local political crap
            about the popular local issues (mostly bike lanes). Most of it is
            just harmless stuff like dashcam videos of bad local drivers,
            historic photos of my city, local issues like city infrastructure
            problems, curiosities like rare animals or space photos, and ads -
            tons and tons of ads.
            
            I think it probably depends what you've engaged with indeed.
       
          javascriptfan69 wrote 1 day ago:
          I genuinely think we will look back at the algorithmic content feed
          as being on par with leaded gasoline or cigarettes in terms of
          societal harm.
          
          Maybe worse since it is engineered to be as addictive as possible
          down to an individual level.
          
          Then again maybe I'm being too optimistic that it will be fixed
          before it destroys us.
       
            alfiedotwtf wrote 1 day ago:
            It’s crazy (but true) to think that by slowly manipulating
            someone’s feed, Zuck and Musk could convert people’s religions,
            political leanings, personal values, etc with little work. In fact,
            I would be surprised if there was NOT some part of Facebook and
            Twitter’s admin or support page where a user’s
            “preferences” could be modified i.e “over the next 8 months,
            convert the user to a staunch evangelical Christian” etc
       
              cluckindan wrote 1 day ago:
              FB was always conversion as a service
       
            aix1 wrote 1 day ago:
            > we will look back at the algorithmic content feed as being on par
            with leaded gasoline or cigarettes in terms of societal harm
            
            I agree 100%.
            
            However, I think the core issue is not the use of an algorithm to
            recommend or even to show stuff.
            
            I think the issue is that the algorithm is optimized for the
            interests of a platform (max engagement => max ad revenue) and not
            for the interests of a user (happiness, delight, however you want
            to frame it).
            
            And there's way too much of this, everywhere.
       
              randomNumber7 wrote 1 day ago:
              We live in a society that only values money so why should anyone
              optimise for s.th. else?
       
                aix1 wrote 12 hours 40 min ago:
                This frames society as some exogenous entity that we have no
                influence over.
                
                It also assumes that the society is homogenous, in the sense
                that everyone cares about the same thing.  I don't think that's
                true at all.
       
                  bigfudge wrote 10 hours 42 min ago:
                  But the people with control of mechanisms of power like
                  social influence do only care about money, so the voices of
                  people who have other values become irrelevant.
       
            timacles wrote 1 day ago:
            Yeah might not ever get fixed. It is the perfect tool for mass
            influence and surveillance of the people. The powers that he would
            never let it go
       
              PantaloonFlames wrote 1 day ago:
              It's literally why Leon bought Twitter. A Mass influence vehicle.
       
            blibble wrote 1 day ago:
            I think it's worse, cigarettes never threatened democracy
            
            the solution is real easy, section 230 should not apply if there's
            an recommendation algorithm involved
            
            treat the company as a traditional publisher
            
            because they are, they're editorialising by selecting the content
            
            vs, say, the old style facebook wall (a raw feed from user's
            friends), which should qualify for section 230
       
              toss1 wrote 19 hours 3 min ago:
              THIS, EXACTLY!
              
              If there is an algorithm, the social media platform is exactly as
              responsible for the content as any publisher
              
              If it is only a straight chronological feed of posts by actually
              followed accts, the social media platform gets Section 230
              protections.
              
              The social media platforms have gamed the law, gotten legitimate
              protections for/from what their users post, but then they
              manipulate it to their advantage more than any publisher.
              
              >>the solution is real easy, section 230 should not apply if
              there's an recommendation algorithm involved
              
              >>treat the company as a traditional publisher
              
              >>because they are, they're editorialising by selecting the
              content
              
              >>vs, say, the old style facebook wall (a raw feed from user's
              friends), which should qualify for section 230
       
              ZeroGravitas wrote 1 day ago:
              You can draw a fairly clear line from the corporate response to
              cigarettes being regulated through to the strategy for climate
              change and social media/crypto etc.
              
              The Republicans are basically a coalition of corporate interests
              that want to get you addicted to stuff that will make you poor
              and unhealthy, and underling any collective attempt to help.
              
              The previous vice-president claimed cigarettes don't give you
              cancer and the current president thinks wind turbine and the
              health problems caused by asbestos are both hoaxes. This is not a
              coincidence.
              
              The two big times the Supreme Court flexed their powers were to
              shut down cigarette regulation by the FDA and Obama's Clean Power
              plan. Again, not a coincidence.
       
                alsetmusic wrote 1 day ago:
                That's because we / our (USA) country is owned. As Carlin said,
                "It's a big club. And you ain't in it."[0]
                
                But what isn't properly addressed when people link to this is
                that the real issue he's discussing is our failing educational
                system. It's not a coincidence that the Right attacks public
                schools and the orange man appointed a wrestling lady to
                dismantle the dept of education.[1]
                
                0. [1] 1. The Trump Administration Plot to Destroy Public
                Education - [2] Aside: I was in the audience for this show (his
                last TV special). Didn't know it'd be shot for TV. Kind of
                sucked, actually, cause they had lights on the audience for the
                cameras and one was right in my eyes. Anyway, a toast to George
                Carlin who was ahead of his time and would hate how right he's
                been.
                
  HTML          [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNXHSMmaq_s
  HTML          [2]: https://prospect.org/2026/01/13/trump-mcmahon-departme...
       
              cruffle_duffle wrote 1 day ago:
              > never threatened democracy
              
              The beautiful part is how non-partisan this is.  It cooks all
              minds regardless of tribe.
       
              quotemstr wrote 1 day ago:
              Social media cannot "threaten democracy". Democracy means that we
              transfer power to those who get the most votes.
              
              There's nothing more anti-democratic than deciding that some
              votes don't count because the people casting them heard words you
              didn't like.
              
              The kind of person to whom the concept of feed ranking
              threatening democracy is even a logical thought believes the role
              of the public is to rubber stamp policies a small group decides
              are best. If the public hears unapproved words, it might have
              unapproved thoughts, vote for unapproved parties, and set
              unapproved policy. Can't have that.
       
                xorcist wrote 1 day ago:
                That trivial definition sees limited use in the real world. Few
                countries that are popularly considered democratic have direct
                democracy. Most weigh votes geographically or use some sort of
                representative model.
                
                Most established definitions of democracy goes something like,
                heavily simplified:
                
                1. Free media
                
                2. Independent judicial system
                
                3. Peaceful system for the transfer of power
                
                The most popular model for implementing (3) is free and open
                elections, which has yielded pretty good results in the past
                century where it has been practiced.
                
                Considering social media pretty much is media for most, it is a
                heavily concentrated power, and if there can any suspicions of
                being in cahoots with established political power and thus
                non-free, surely that is a threat to democracy almost by
                definition.
                
                Let's be real here: It has been conclusively shown again and
                again that social media does influence elections. That much
                should be obvious without too much in the way of academic
                rigor.
       
                  quotemstr wrote 1 day ago:
                  Of course social media influences elections. Direct or
                  indirect, the principle of democracy is the same: the
                  electorate hears a diversity of perspectives and votes
                  according to the ones found most convincing.
                  
                  How can you say you believe in democracy when you want to
                  control what people hear so they don't vote the wrong way? In
                  a democracy there is no such thing as voting the wrong way.
                  
                  Who are you to decide which perspectives get heard? You can
                  object to algorithmic feed ranking only because it might make
                  people vote wrong --- but as we established, the concept of
                  "voting wrong" in a legitimate democracy doesn't even type
                  check. In a legitimate democracy, it's the voting that
                  decides what's right and wrong!
       
                    bigfudge wrote 10 hours 45 min ago:
                    You write as though the selection of information by
                    algorithmic feeds is a politically neutral act, which comes
                    about by free actions of the people. But this is
                    demonstrably not the case. Selecting hard for
                    misinformation which enrages (because it increases
                    engagement) means that social media are pushing populations
                    further and further to the right. And this serves the
                    interest of the literal handful of billionaires who control
                    those sites. This is the unhealthy concentration of power
                    the OP writes about, and it is a threat to democracy as
                    we've known it.
       
              hiddencost wrote 1 day ago:
              They fought a civil war over the labor required to produce
              tobacco.
       
                dudeinjapan wrote 1 day ago:
                > cigarettes never threatened democracy
                
                "Democracy" itself was not at stake in the American Civil War
                because both sides practiced it. The Confederacy was/would have
                been a democracy analogous to ancient Athens--one where slaves
                (and women) were excluded from political participation. The
                vast majority of Confederate politicians, including Jefferson
                Davis, came from the "Democratic Party"--which, true to its
                name, championed enfranchisement for the "common (white) man"
                as opposed to control by elites.
                
                Perhaps a better example is the "Tobacco War" of 1780 in the
                American Revolution, where Cornwallis and Benedict Arnold
                destroyed massive quantities of cured tobacco to try to cripple
                the war financing of the colonies.
                
                Control of tobacco in Latin/South America since the 1700s
                (Spain's second-largest source of imperial revenue after
                precious metals) also had a directly stifling effect on
                democratic self-governance.
       
                  NeutralCrane wrote 1 day ago:
                  I think the point is a significant number of human beings
                  were not participating in democracy at the time because their
                  forced labor was critical to propping up the tobacco (and
                  other) industries.
                  
                  It’s hard to claim it’s actually democracy when it only
                  exists after stripping the rights from a large section of
                  people who would disagree with you, if they had the power to
                  do so.
       
              carefulfungi wrote 1 day ago:
              > cigarettes never threatened democracy
              
              Off topic, but I bet a book on tobacco cultivation/history would
              be fascinating. Tobacco cultivation relied on the slave labor of
              millions and the global tobacco market influenced Jefferson and
              other American revolutionaries (who were seeing their wealth
              threatened). I've also read that Spain treated sharing seeds as
              punishable by death? The rare contrast that makes Monsanto look
              enlightened!
       
                djkivi wrote 1 day ago:
                Something like The Prize for the tobacco industry could be very
                interesting!
       
                roryirvine wrote 1 day ago:
                Mm, definitely. I think it's probably the cash crop that has
                historically been the most intertwined with politics, even more
                so than sugar.
                
                Central America, the Balkans, the Levant. The Iroquois and
                Algonquians. Cuba. The Medicis and the Stuarts. And, as you
                say, revolutionary Virginia and Maryland. Lots of potential
                there for a grand narrative covering 600 years or more!
                
                (And, to gp: yes, it absolutely did threaten governments,
                empires, and entire political systems!)
       
                  throwaway27448 wrote 1 day ago:
                  Distinguishing between the economic and politics seems
                  impossible—hence the term "political economy". Splitting
                  the two was a bad decision.
       
                    roryirvine wrote 1 day ago:
                    Yeah, isn't it only a relatively recent split - mid 20th
                    century, I think?
                    
                    Before that, the term "economy" was only used as a synonym
                    for thrift or a system of management or control (and
                    "economist" tended to mean someone who wanted to reduce
                    spending or increase restrictions on something).
       
                      cess11 wrote 1 day ago:
                      Arguably Marx is the most important historical scientist
                      when it comes to political economy. The methodology
                      pioneered by him has been extremely influential.
                      
                      Reactionary liberalism, e.g. neoliberalism, Austrian
                      school, that kind of thing, discards the 'mess' of
                      interdisciplinary approaches and seek a return of a
                      protestant worldview, riffing off of their use of the New
                      Testament verses about "render unto Caesar". This puts
                      them in harsh ideological conflict with the political
                      economists and elevates their 'theology' above the work
                      of previous scientists.
                      
                      Historically some trace political economy to ibn Khaldun,
                      but in the Occident it's Ricardo, Mill, Marx and so on
                      that create a (to us) recognisable science out of it.
       
                        ahf8Aithaex7Nai wrote 1 day ago:
                        This is a reply to nradov.
                        
                        > He didn't follow the scientific method.
                        
                        Science is not the only legitimate form of gaining
                        knowledge.  What you write applies to every
                        philosopher.  And economics is not generally known for
                        being the most scientific of all sciences.  This is all
                        the more true of neoclassical economists, who are
                        probably closer to your worldview  if Marx triggers
                        such a knee-jerk reaction in you.  Whether you like it
                        or not, Marx was a gifted systematic and analytical
                        thinker.  Even his ideological opponents admit this. 
                        At least if they can hold a candle to him
                        intellectually...
       
                        nradov wrote 1 day ago:
                        Marx wasn't a scientist. He didn't follow the
                        scientific method. He was a lazy pseudo-intellectual
                        who cherry-picked particular pieces of history to
                        support his preferred narrative.
       
                          cess11 wrote 21 hours 29 min ago:
                          Clearly you are unfamiliar with his work and
                          influence.
                          
                          You could easily fix that with a bit of effort.
       
                            nradov wrote 20 hours 15 min ago:
                            Actually I've read it and am quite familiar. It's
                            true that he was influential but all of his work
                            was shoddy and poorly reasoned. Only morons are
                            impressed by it.
       
                              cess11 wrote 4 hours 0 min ago:
                              OK, show some examples.
       
              mort96 wrote 1 day ago:
              Why change section 230? You can just make personalized
              algorithmic feeds optimized for engagement illegal instead,
              couldn't you? What advantage does it have to mess with 230,
              wouldn't the result be the same in practice?
       
                carefulfungi wrote 1 day ago:
                The solution must be a social one: we must culturally shun
                algorithmic social media, scold its proponents, and help the
                addicted.
                
                We aren't going to be able to turn off the AI content spigot or
                write laws that control media format and content and withstand
                (in the US) 1st amendment review. But we can change the
                cultural perception.
       
                  bigfudge wrote 1 day ago:
                  It's really simple in the US: stop granting exemptions for
                  the harm the content causes. Social media _is_ publishing.
                  Expecting people to 'eat their vegetables' when only fast
                  food is on offer is realistic, and flies in the face of all
                  we know about the environmental drivers of public health.
       
                    nradov wrote 1 day ago:
                    Just because something is potentially harmful doesn't mean
                    it should be illegal or otherwise prohibited.
       
                  mort96 wrote 1 day ago:
                  We aren't going to stop algorithmic social media through
                  sheer force of public will without government involvement.
                  
                  Social communities aren't nimble. There a ton of inertia in a
                  social media platform. People have their whole network, all
                  their friends, on the platform; and all friends have their
                  friends on the platform; etc. So in order to switch from one
                  platform to another, you need everyone to switch at the same
                  time, which is extremely hard.
                  
                  Facebook started out pretty nice. You saw what your friends
                  posted and what pages you follow posted, in chronological
                  order. It had privacy issues, but it worked more or less how
                  we'd want to, with no algorithmic timeline. But they moved
                  towards being more and more algorithmic over time. Luckily,
                  Facebook was bad enough that it has gotten way less popular,
                  but that has taken a long time.
                  
                  Twitter is the same. It started out being the social media
                  platform we want: you saw what your followers posted or
                  boosted, chronologically. No algorithmic feed. But look where
                  it is now. Thankfully, Musk's involvement has made plenty of
                  people leave, but there were a lot of years where everyone,
                  regardless of political leaning, were on Twitter with an
                  algorithmic timeline. Even though a lot of people complained
                  about the algorithmic timeline when it was introduced, they
                  stayed on Twitter because that's where everyone they knew
                  were.
                  
                  YouTube too. For a long time, the only thing you saw on
                  YouTube was what people you've subscribed to posted. It built
                  up a huge community and became the de facto video sharing
                  platform as a nice non-algorithmic site, and then they turned
                  the key and went all in on replacing the subscription feed
                  with the algorithmic feed. Now they've even adopted
                  short-form video where you aren't even supposed to pick which
                  video you wanna watch, you're just supposed to scroll. And
                  replacing YouTube is hard due to its momentum.
                  
                  So even if everyone agrees that algorithmic feeds are
                  terrible and move to a non-algorithmic platform over the next
                  few decades, what do you propose we do when that new platform
                  inevitably shifts towards being an algorithmic platform? Do
                  we start a new multi-decade long transition to yet another
                  platform?
       
                danielheath wrote 1 day ago:
                230 is an obvious place to say “if you decide something is
                relevant to the user (based on criteria they have not
                explicitly expressed to you), then you are a publisher of that
                material and are therefore not a protected carriage service.
       
              BoingBoomTschak wrote 1 day ago:
              If your tree is so weak that a single breeze can knock it off,
              why blame the wind? Disclaimer: I hate social media of all kinds,
              it's just that you're missing the forest.
       
                blharr wrote 1 day ago:
                The breeze is more like a 2 ton harvester expertly engineered
                to knock your tree down.
       
                mort96 wrote 1 day ago:
                The force of social media these past 20 years has been massive.
                We're talking radical change to the structure of information
                flow in society. That's not just a small breeze.
       
              jcgrillo wrote 1 day ago:
              > As interpreted by some courts, this language preserves immunity
              for some editorial changes to third-party content but does not
              allow a service provider to "materially contribute" to the
              unlawful information underlying a legal claim. Under the material
              contribution test, a provider loses immunity if it is responsible
              for what makes the displayed content illegal.[1]
              
              I'm not a lawyer, but idk that seems pretty clear cut. If you,
              the provider, run some program which does illegal shit then 230
              don't cover your ass.
              
  HTML        [1]: https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12584
       
              jballanc wrote 1 day ago:
              The problem with this is that section 230 was specifically
              created to promote editorializing. Before section 230, online
              platforms were loath to engage in any moderation because they
              feared that a hint of moderation would jump them over into the
              realm of "publisher" where they could be held liable for the
              veracity of the content they published and, given the choice
              between no moderation at all or full editorial responsibility,
              many of the early internet platforms would have chosen no
              moderation (as full editorial responsibility would have been cost
              prohibitive).
              
              In other words, that filter that keeps Nazis, child predators,
              doxing, etc. off your favorite platform only exists because of
              section 230.
              
              Now, one could argue that the biggest platforms (Meta, Youtube,
              etc.) can, at this point, afford the cost of full editorial
              responsibility, but repealing section 230 under this logic only
              serves to put up a barrier to entry to any smaller competitor
              that might dislodge these platforms from their high, and
              lucrative, perch. I used to believe that the better fix would be
              to amend section 230 to shield filtering/removal, but not
              selective promotion, but TikTok has shown (rather cleverly) that
              selective filtering/removal can be just as effective as selective
              promotion of content.
       
                gzread wrote 1 day ago:
                Section 230 being repealed doesn't mean that any moderation
                will be treated as publication. The ambient assumptions have
                changed a lot in the past 30 years. Now nobody would think that
                removing spam makes you liable as a publisher.
                
                Algorithmic feeds are, prima facie, not moderation, not
                user-created content and do not fall under the purview of
                section 230.
                
                We all know why they're really doing it, though.
       
                safety1st wrote 1 day ago:
                This is the first time I've ever heard somebody claim that
                section 230 exists to deter child predators.
                
                That argument is of course nonsense. If the platform is aware
                of apparent violations including enticement, grooming etc. they
                are obligated to report this under federal statute,
                specifically 18 USC 2258A. Now if you think that statute
                doesn't go far enough then the right thing to do is amend it,
                or more broadly, establish stronger obligations on platforms to
                report evidence of criminal behavior to the authorities. Either
                way Section 230 is not needed for this purpose and deterring
                crime is not a justification for how it currently exists.
                
                The final proof of how nonsensical this argument is, is that
                even if the intent you claim was true, it failed. Facebook and
                Instagram are the largest platforms for groomers online. Nazi
                and white supremacy content are everywhere on these websites as
                well. So clearly Section 230 didn't work for this purpose. Zuck
                was happy to open the Nazi floodgates on his platforms the
                moment a conservative President got elected. That was all it
                took.
                
                The actual problem is that Meta is a lawless criminal entity.
                The mergers which created the modern Meta should have been
                blocked in the first place. When they weren't, Zuck figured he
                could go ahead and open the floodgates and become the largest
                enabler of CSAM, smut and fraud on earth. He was right. The
                United States government has become weak. It doesn't protect
                its people. It allows criminal perverts like the board of Meta
                and the rest of the Epstein class to prey on its people.
       
                bjt wrote 1 day ago:
                Moderation and recommendation are not the same thing.
       
                  jimbokun wrote 1 day ago:
                  The way modern social media platforms are designed, yes they
                  are.
       
                    bjt wrote 15 hours 12 min ago:
                    The point is that they don't have to be. You can moderate
                    (scan for inappropriate content, copyrighted content, etc)
                    without needing to have an algorithmic recommendation feed.
       
                  AnthonyMouse wrote 1 day ago:
                  When you have a feed with a million posts in it, they are.
                  There is no practical difference between removing something
                  and putting it on page 5000 where no one will ever see it, or
                  from the other side, moderating away everything you wouldn't
                  recommend.
                  
                  Likewise, if you have a feed at all, it has to be in some
                  order. Should it show everyone's posts or only people you
                  follow? Should it show posts by popularity or something else?
                  Is "popularity" global, regional, only among people you
                  follow, or using some statistics based on things you yourself
                  have previously liked?
                  
                  There is no intrinsic default. Everything is a choice.
       
                    davecrawley wrote 1 day ago:
                    Early days facebook was simple:
                    1) You saw posts from all people you were connected to on
                    the platform.
                    2) In the reverse order they were posted.
                    
                    I can tell you it was a real p**r when they decided to do
                    an algorithmic recommendation engine - as the experience
                    became way worse. Before I could follow what my buddies
                    were doing, as soon as they made this change the feed
                    became garbage.
       
                    ben_w wrote 1 day ago:
                    While I agree "There is no intrinsic default. Everything is
                    a choice." and "There is no practical difference between
                    removing something and putting it on page 5000" and similar
                    (see my own recent comments on censorship vs. propaganda):
                    
                    > Should it show everyone's posts or only people you
                    follow?
                    
                    Only people (well, accounts) you follow, obviously.
                    
                    That's what I always thought "following" is *for*, until it
                    became clear that the people running the algorithms had
                    different ideas because they collectively decided both that
                    I must surely want to see other content I didn't ask for
                    and also not see the content I did ask for.
                    
                    > Should it show posts by popularity or something else? Is
                    "popularity" global, regional, only among people you
                    follow, or using some statistics based on things you
                    yourself have previously liked?
                    
                    If they want to supply a feed of "Trending in your area",
                    IMO that would be fine, if you ask for it. Choice (user
                    choice) is key.
       
                    reverius42 wrote 1 day ago:
                    I think maybe you shouldn't have a feed with a million
                    posts in it? Like how many friends do you have? And how
                    often do they post?
       
                      crabmusket wrote 1 day ago:
                      "We have a million pieces of content to show you, but are
                      not allowed to editorialize" sounds like a constraint
                      that might just spark some interesting UI innovations.
                      
                      Not being allowed to use the "feed" pattern to shovel
                      content into users' willing gullets based on maximum
                      predicted engagement is the kind of friction that might
                      result in healthier patterns of engagement.
       
                    phicoh wrote 1 day ago:
                    I remember back in the day when Google+ was just launched.
                    And it had promoted content. Content not from my 'circles'
                    but random other content. I walked out and never looked
                    back.
                    
                    Of course, Facebook started doing the same.
                    
                    The thing is, anything from people not explicitly
                    subscribed to should be considered advertorial and the
                    platform should be responsible for all of that content.
       
                intended wrote 1 day ago:
                Platforms routinely underinvest in trust and safety.
                
                T&S is markedly more capable in the dominant languages (English
                is ahead by far).
                
                Platforms make absurd margins when compared to any other
                category of enterprise known to man.
                
                They operate at scales where a 0.001% error rate is still far
                beyond human capability to manually review.
                
                Customer support remains a cost center.
                
                Firms should be profitable and have a job to do.
                
                We do not owe them that job. Firms are vehicles to find the
                best strategies and tactics given societal resources and goals.
                
                If rules to address harms result in current business models
                becoming unviable, then this is not a defense of the current
                business model.
                
                Currently we are socializing costs and privatizing profit.
                
                Having more customer support, more transparency, and more
                moderation will be a cost of doing business.
                
                Our societies have more historical experience thinking about
                government capture than flooding the zone style private capture
                of speech.
                
                America developed the FDA and every country has rules on how
                hygiene should be maintained in food.
                
                People still can start small, and then create medium or large
                businesses. Regulation is framed for the size of the org.
                
                Many firms fail - but failure and recreation are natural parts
                of the business cycle.
       
                arcticfox wrote 1 day ago:
                Even if they can't afford it... Too bad for them?
                
                I am kind of rooting for the AI slop because the status quo is
                horrific, maybe the AI slop cancer will put social media out of
                its misery.
       
                  horacemorace wrote 1 day ago:
                  Sweet best back-and-forth All-sides on this topic. It’s
                  very complex. On what rules ought we regulate, if any?
                  Probably some somehow.
       
            idiotsecant wrote 1 day ago:
            If anything the algorithmic dopamine drip is just getting started.
            We haven't even entered the era of intensely personalized ai-driven
            individual influence campaigns. The billboard is just a billboard
            right now, but it won't be long before the billboard knows the most
            effective way to emotionally influence you and executes it
            perfectly. The algorithm is mostly still in your phone.
            
            That's not where it stops.
       
          flir wrote 1 day ago:
          My wife was complaining about far right knuckle draggers turning up
          in her feed. I assume the algorithm was shovelling more of them at
          her because she was rubbernecking. I told her to try a "block every
          time" approach. It took about two weeks until her feed was (mostly)
          free of them but it still throws one at her now and again.
          
          I offer this as a data point about how hard it is to turn a polluted
          feed around. But I'm now wondering if "feed cleaning" is a service
          that could be automated, via LLM.
       
            DANmode wrote 23 hours 46 min ago:
            They offer controls in the three-dots menu that say:
            
            + Interested 
            Show more this like this in my feed
            
            and
            
            - Not Interested
            Show less things like this in my feed
            
            They even allow clicking those repeatedly on the same post.
       
            mlrtime wrote 1 day ago:
            I did this on reddit to try and get a useful /r/all and it ended up
            being mostly cats. I never look or vote on cat pictures but by just
            removing political serial posters, thats what I got.
       
            jjav wrote 1 day ago:
            > My wife was complaining about far right knuckle draggers turning
            up in her feed.
            
            This is what is so difficult in facebook vs. HN. Here if people
            post angry insulting rants, it gets collectively downvoted to
            oblivion. That is effective.
            
            On facebook there is no equivalent. All I can do is block an
            individual, but I personally have to do it for every offensive
            person, which is for practical purposes impossible. Facebooks needs
            a downvote button and an option to hide any comments which have N
            downvotes.
       
              scotty79 wrote 1 day ago:
              "I'm not interested" and "Don't show posts from this person" is
              the dowvote button for the algorithm. If you use those functions
              liberally your feed gets pretty clean and aligned.
       
                michaelt wrote 1 day ago:
                Except here on HN, other people take care of the downvoting for
                me. I only have to reach for the downvote button a few times a
                year.
                
                Whereas on Facebook style algorithmic feeds, you have to "use
                those functions liberally" and the result is only "pretty"
                clean.
       
                  flir wrote 1 day ago:
                  I used to belong to a FB nostalgia group that was being
                  relentlessly farmed by Indonesian accounts. The group members
                  (and even the admins) weren't sophisticated enough to spot
                  what was happening. They were absolutely engaging with the
                  spam. They love AI colorizations too.
                  
                  I don't trust "facebook users" as a group to provide a signal
                  I consider useful.
       
                  scotty79 wrote 1 day ago:
                  HN model works, people do downvote for you, if you are just
                  like everybody else here. You indicate that by visiting HN.
                  
                  In more universal platform such as Facebook you need to
                  indicate who you are by subscribing to specific groups or
                  downvoting some of the content yourself. Just visiting.
                  Facebook is not enoug. Once you signal who you are you also
                  benefit from other people just like you downvoting content
                  you wouldn't like, for you.
       
            DeathArrow wrote 1 day ago:
            I think the feeds depends on the posts you read, even accidentally.
            
            My feed is free from extreme left content but I didn't have to
            block anything. Simply by not reading that kind of content, the
            algorithm knows I am not interested.
       
              flir wrote 1 day ago:
              Yes, hence my comment about "rubbernecking". If you tend to slow
              down for car crashes, the algorithm shows you more car crashes.
              It amplifies our worst instincts.
       
                rightbyte wrote 1 day ago:
                That effect also applies when you try to block car crashes.
                That happened to me years ago with the same genre of videos.
                Like car crashes and people falling and hurting themself a
                little bit.
       
            ipaddr wrote 1 day ago:
            How can we complain that everyone is siloed and no one talks to
            each other and complian that their feed is full of ideas outside of
            the silo.
       
              fatherwavelet wrote 1 day ago:
              The worst to me is the way people dehumanize other people who
              don't agree with them.
              
              The other side politically doesn't just have different views,
              they are barely human knuckle draggers. Basically neanderthals,
              so who cares if they go extinct.
       
                mlrtime wrote 1 day ago:
                The other side sees you the same way, congrats on being
                enlightened.
       
                duskdozer wrote 1 day ago:
                "don't agree with them" is carrying a lot of weight here, isn't
                it?
       
                  AlexeyBelov wrote 8 hours 50 min ago:
                  It does.
                  
                  One side: this group of people shouldn't even exist.
                  The other side: no, let them exist actually.
       
                  flir wrote 1 day ago:
                  It's a month-old account.
       
                    cruffle_duffle wrote 1 day ago:
                    It’s HN. People create new accounts here all the time to
                    protect their anonymity.
       
                      AlexeyBelov wrote 8 hours 51 min ago:
                      Trolls do as well. Very often if a comment is "bad", it
                      comes from a relatively new account. Then it gets banned
                      and a new account is created. Technically it's ban
                      evasion, but dang doesn't really want to change anything
                      at this point.
       
              harvey9 wrote 1 day ago:
              I want Facebook to be like the current top post on here: my
              family and friends social stuff. I can come to hn to get out of
              my silo.
       
                flir wrote 1 day ago:
                My wife uses the app, hence the "consistently block the
                assholes" approach. But if you're willing to stick to the
                website I can actually offer you this. Write a browser plugin
                that redirects you to "/?filter=all&sk=h_chr" every time you
                land on "/". That's what I use for myself.
       
              garte wrote 1 day ago:
              what the poster mentioned did not sound like a balanced exchange
              of ideas was about to happen...
       
              UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote 1 day ago:
              What next? The intellectual dark web?
               I think we can have a free market of ideas or whatever you’re
              fetishising without it meaning that I can’t sit on the couch
              and open an app to see some family photos without it being
              intermingled with some loser saying that trans people should be
              hanged on the street.
              
              And you know for a fact that I am not exaggerating. This is where
              the current political discourse is at.
              
              Can I please have the freedom to do that without the lecture?
       
                cruffle_duffle wrote 1 day ago:
                That sort of rage bait is literally targeted to rile up people
                sitting on the opposite side of the kind of people watching
                that other media site that rhymes with socks. It’s all fake
                bullshit algorithmically optimized to divide.
                
                Everybody thinks their tribe is immune to this sort of stuff
                but it isn’t. It’s all the same nonsense packaged for
                different echo chambers.
                
                At the end of the day, everybody is human. It isn’t us vs
                them, it’s just us.
       
                vasco wrote 1 day ago:
                Your family photos should be on the Photos app and you'd have
                no problems.
       
              flir wrote 1 day ago:
              Do you think you should have full control over the web browser on
              the computer you own?
       
                AnthonyMouse wrote 1 day ago:
                “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they
                could, they didn't stop to think if they should.”
                
                Having the right to choose what you see doesn't mean you should
                choose to build yourself an ideological bubble.
       
                  flir wrote 1 day ago:
                  I avoid hateful people and pub bores in real life, too.
                  
                  If you use the web without an ad blocker, more power to you,
                  I guess.
       
                    AnthonyMouse wrote 23 hours 45 min ago:
                    Assuming that everyone in the other tribe is "hateful
                    people and pub bores" is kind of the problem.
       
            idiotsecant wrote 1 day ago:
            I mainly want to clean other people's feeds. There are an enormous
            amount of people that I need to undergo an algorithm detox.
       
              AuryGlenz wrote 1 day ago:
              My mother-in-laws Facebook feed is full of fake news - from the
              left, politically. My own mom doesn’t have a Facebook, but she
              still manages to balance out the universe with fake news from the
              right on her YouTube feed.
              
              The internet is a mistake for a lot of people and I don’t think
              we can fix that.
       
              macintux wrote 1 day ago:
              Yeah, there's always someone saying "Just delete your Facebook
              account" as if that solves the underlying "Facebook is actively
              encouraging divisiveness" problem.
       
        fbistrash wrote 1 day ago:
        Facebook is nothing but trash. Stopped using it way back in 2012
       
        dchristian wrote 1 day ago:
        This sounds like the feed of a single male.  Facebook showing sleazy
        content/ads to single guys predates AI by a lot.  Try removing your
        single relationship status from your profile and see what changes.
       
        Aurornis wrote 1 day ago:
        > And I don't just mean that nobody uses it anymore. Like, I knew
        everyone under 50 had moved on
        
        It will probably surprise a lot of people to learn that this isn't
        true.
        
        A higher percentage of 30-49 year olds report using Facebook than in
        50+ age groups
        
        The bias toward younger generations is even higher when you include
        Instagram
        
        One source [1] I think many in the Hacker News bubble stopped using it
        and assume everyone else did, too. It's not too surprising when you
        read articles like this that paint a completely different picture of
        the platform than what your friends and family are actually seeing when
        they use it, as evidenced by the multitude of reports in this comment
        section from people whose family and friends are still getting value
        out of the site.
        
  HTML  [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/social-media/
       
          npilk wrote 1 day ago:
          Interesting. I wonder if the phrasing as "do you ever use this
          platform" leads to this result. I could definitely believe more 30-49
          year olds log in every so often for Marketplace etc., but would
          expect DAU to be lower than 50+. But maybe that's just more of the
          same bias you describe.
       
        throwaway876345 wrote 1 day ago:
        My aunt is in her late 70s. She is a retired public school teacher who
        taught for over 30 years. Over the years she spends a majority of her
        leisure her time glued to Facebook on her iPad, consuming whatever
        content is delivered by their algorithm. She's become MAGA and will not
        tolerate any criticism of any moral wrongdoing by the current president
        or members of his administration. It's unbelievable the turn.
       
          fluder wrote 1 day ago:
          Firstly, people have the right to believe in aliens if they want to.
          It is their legal right to support any political movement, or are you
          a Nazi?
          
          Secondly, what does Facebook have to do with it? It's not as if there
          is no propaganda outside this social network.
       
        RajT88 wrote 1 day ago:
        I agree with most of this, but complaining about Yoleendadong is some
        "Old man yells at cloud" stuff.
        
        My wife is a big fan, as she has a lot of funny content specific to
        Asian cultures.  Yes, she has some relationship stuff too.  You may not
        like her content, but she's got a few hundred thousand subscribers on
        Youtube, and 17 million on TikTok.
       
          dangus wrote 1 day ago:
          I was about to point out two things:
          
          1. This bit you just pointed out. Facebook suggesting Yoleendadong,
          that’s not weird, she’s wildly popular. Her inclusion in this
          piece discredits OP as someone who basically has no idea how social
          media works - which makes the article less insightful, like asking
          David Attenborough to work the play by play commentary of an NBA
          game.
          
          2. I don’t think OP realizes how much he should not be admitting
          that this is what his feed looks like.
          
          Facebook/Instagram pretty much show you exactly what you want to see.
          I deleted my Meta accounts about 6 months ago but when I used it
          regularly before that I never saw thirst slop like this.
          
          I had a beautiful algorithm, a mix of mostly hilarious brain rot and
          actual high effort content involving my interests.
          
          OP is basically accidentally admitting that he’s browsing this kind
          of stuff in a browser with set Facebook cookies. That’s why you
          can’t use Meta products without Facebook container.
          
          OP is seeing AI titties because other websites that utilize
          Facebook’s analytics/marketing products are seeing OP search for AI
          titties.
          
          Finally, it is very easy to guide Meta algorithms into showing you
          other stuff if you are seeing things you don’t like. It even has a
          button for you to tell it what you don’t like.
       
            RajT88 wrote 12 hours 16 min ago:
            > thirst slop like this.
            
            Buddy, I wish the thirst slop on Facebook was like this.
            
            I told my wife quite openly how I went through a 6 week period
            where I just couldn't get rid of AI generated booby photos of Salma
            Hayek.    Why her?  Who knows?  I tried everything.  Eventually it
            fixed itself.
            
            Occasionally, FB ads churn up straight up porn which is pretending
            to be something else.  I'm not talking about OF girls - I actually
            think comparatively they are pretty noble - they pay for ads, and
            don't bullshit you what it's about.  A lot of them are less risque
            than the people pushing their Insta or whatever.
       
              dangus wrote 4 hours 30 min ago:
              Well, ads versus algorithmic content recommendations are two very
              different things.
              
              If FB wants to have low standards for their advertisers, that’s
              on them. It’s not illegal or even inherently immoral to
              advertise porn, especially if FB already knows you’re over 18.
              
              But, in general, the algorithmic content recommendations do
              follow what you want. Ads are different because advertisers pay
              for the users they want, not the other way around.
              
              And more reminders for this discussion: Facebook isn’t a
              necessary utility, it has competitors, it is not a monopoly, you
              can delete your account without any downside to your life. This
              is very much unlike services like the Apple App Store or Google
              Play where it’s difficult to function in modern society without
              using them.
              
              Of course, I’m not saying social media shouldn’t have more
              regulation and I’m not trying to defend them as a corporation.
              It’s just that at some point the best way to complain about
              products is to stop using them.
       
          kube-system wrote 1 day ago:
          This is actually the scariest part of the article for me.
          
          It's clear we've got to the point where at a glance it is hard for
          those who are otherwise unaware to tell the difference between AI
          slop and organic content.
          
          If nerds on HN can't tell the difference between an AI slop
          influencer and a fairly well-regarded human influencer... how can we
          expect the rest of the public to tell the difference when it comes to
          science, health, civics, politics, etc???
          
          We're at the cusp of a distrust and misinformation cliff that is
          going to be terrifying in magnitude.
       
            hobom wrote 1 day ago:
            The article didn't suggest that the video mentioned was AI slop, it
            correctly recognised it as human generated.
       
              kube-system wrote 1 day ago:
              I know he said it was not AI, but he but still described it as
              “slop”, lumping it in with the other examples.  And said it
              was a video “where a woman decides to intentionally start a
              fight with her boyfriend” which isn’t really an accurate
              description.  She’s a well known comedian playing an obviously
              exaggerated character that pokes fun at relationship dynamics.
              
              My point here isn’t simply that “people can’t differentiate
              between AI and not AI” (although that is an issue for some) but
              that the prevalence of AI slop lowers the trust of ALL content
              even when they know it isn’t AI generated.  This author was so
              fed up with the content they were being served that they were
              quick to dismiss other content along with it at a cursory glance.
       
              RajT88 wrote 1 day ago:
              Indeed.  He thought it was not AI slop, but the kind of
              low-effort slop ruining Facebook.
              
              Your opinions may vary, but this is not one of those super
              clickbaity social media personalities; people like her because
              she's funny.
       
          thot_experiment wrote 1 day ago:
          Yeah, she's great. I don't know if I would say she's not slop, but
          it's the sort of slop that serves as a foundational block of the
          lexicon of memes I use to communicate with my friends. I don't think
          this is new, imagemacros/memes are also slop. Maybe I'm using the
          word wrong?
          
          I guess to me it's kind of synonymous with "content" [mildly
          derogatory] as to differentiate it from effortposting. She primarily
          makes content, it's not always art but it doesn't have to be.
       
          taysix wrote 1 day ago:
          Agreed, author missed the mark on that one! But makes sense if you
          haven't seen her content before. Definitely wouldn't call her content
          "slop".
       
        richardw wrote 1 day ago:
        Every so often my YouTube logs out and I’m exposed to the view a
        “random visitor” would see. Instantly visible because it’s filled
        with stupid content and sexual provocation.
        
        I manage the shit out of FB and YouTube. You need to block a few things
        so it stops testing a few segment ideas.
       
        zer0zzz wrote 1 day ago:
        Why do people still complain about fb. FB has been this way for years..
       
        justinhj wrote 1 day ago:
        Hating on Facebook had always been cool. It's like "not even owning a
        tv". 
        Is it cooked though? I'm over 50 and it has a lot of value for me.
        Marketplace, local happenings and keeping in touch with family are all
        well served.
       
          dj_gitmo wrote 1 day ago:
          You are not responding to the content of the article. Did you read
          it? The FB feed has changed dramatically since the adoption of genAI
          and the experience of using it can be pretty unpleasant. Do you
          disagree?
       
            justinhj wrote 1 day ago:
            The article is so far removed from personal experience it sounds
            like another site entirely. Maybe this is what you see if you log
            out for a long time and all Facebook knows about you is you are a
            young man, hence the content.
       
        fer wrote 1 day ago:
        I started laugh reacting at Russian propaganda and now all I get is
        Russian propaganda, literally half of my posts are boomers, shills and
        people from "non-aligned" countries falling for the Russia stronk/based
        west evil/gay meme, and Russian embassies and consulates non-stop
        DARVOing. But before that it was indeed a constant flurry of thirst
        traps, ragebait, etc. I only keep using it for a couple of well
        moderated groups.
       
          TrackerFF wrote 1 day ago:
          Yeah, this is a major FB trap.
          
          If you interact in any way with propaganda accounts, even just look
          too long at the posts when they first randomly pop up, they've target
          locked you.
          
          I'm a liberal dude. 90% of the political content I get on both FB and
          Insta is far-right propaganda, sprinkled in with some typical
          brocasters.
          
          No amount of "Not interested" will make it go away, either.
       
        nickvec wrote 1 day ago:
        AI slop has me very worried for the future of the Internet at large. I
        was toying around with the idea of a "new Internet" that is devoid of
        AI generated content, but enforcing that would be borderline
        impossible. Sadly, it seems like the genie is out of the bottle; I feel
        like I see AI generated content everywhere I go.
       
        agentifysh wrote 1 day ago:
        One theory I have for the degradation of facebook and just internet
        content/discussion/comments in general in the past 25 years have been
        the rapid change in the cultural demographic of global internet users.
        
        late 90s to early 2000s, only highly developed economies made up most
        of the internet but as more emerging markets joined the ranks, they
        ultimately surpassed those that reached peak internet penetration much
        earlier.
        
        A lot of these new dominant markets also happen to speak English well
        enough and in far greater numbers and with it carries the
        cultural/taste shifts.
        
        Without naming specific countries, few social networks are eclipsed by
        just a few countries that joined the internet much later than the
        Western hemisphere (+non-English speaking developed economies).
        
        Cultural norms, values, habits permeate through the internet simply put
        and the social media platforms are incentivized to reflect it even if
        the $/country is not aligned but through the sheer power of number and
        the increasingly unhealthy attachments to what is largely just an
        ephemeral digital number in a database inside air conditioned facility
        while the users complain about the heat.
       
          willturman wrote 1 day ago:
          I'll name a specific highly developed country in the western
          hemisphere: The United States. There's no need to bend over backward
          trying to blame some perceived degradation in quality of discussion
          on international adoption of the internet.
          
          According to the Barbara Bush Foundation for Family Literacy [1] 130
          million Americans — 54% of adults between the ages of 16 and 74
          years old—lack proficiency in literacy, essentially reading below
          the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.
          
  HTML    [1]: https://map.barbarabush.org
       
            0xDEAFBEAD wrote 1 day ago:
            What's more, the United States has some of the highest reading test
            scores in the world: [1] This entire planet is full of idiots
            
  HTML      [1]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/academic-performance?su...
       
          fjsifjasf wrote 1 day ago:
          why don't you just name the countries lol?
       
        umvi wrote 1 day ago:
        Could this also be related to Facebook killing messenger.com (i.e. they
        are no longer running a charity so they need all users to be on the
        main site now to consume the slop)?
       
        progforlyfe wrote 1 day ago:
        I'm definitely not a "fan" of Facebook or anything, though I do use it
        and make a few interactions per day -- based on this blog post I think
        the reason why his dashboard was full of trash & slop was simply
        because he hasn't logged in for 8 years. If you have no interactions in
        8 years (and people you friend/follow are also gone from the platform)
        they will resort to showing you this crap.
        
        I honestly do not care if Facebook is cooked or goes away -- but I
        doubt the situation is that bad.
       
        jmward01 wrote 1 day ago:
        I think the key here is engagement is based a lot on content quantity,
        not quality. If your feed doesn't have a lot of natural quantity
        associated with it then FB will find something to stuff in there. The
        reality is that most people don't have a lot of quantity on their feeds
        from their friends so that means they get the AI slop to fill the void.
        At least that is my complete guess on a root cause of (some) of the FB
        slop. I haven't logged in for 6 months and I am now checking it 1-2
        times a year because the last few times I logged on it was pushing hate
        content at me.
       
        SubiculumCode wrote 1 day ago:
        Facebook IS just veiled ads to OF pron subscriptions.
       
        metalman wrote 1 day ago:
        I declined when "facesmash", whatever, was invitation only, and am only
        now considering how to set up an advertising presence there, sortof, as
        I am overwhelmed with customers wanting things made, so may just stay
        on page 7 of search, and just keep answering the phone
       
        nomilk wrote 1 day ago:
        Fb deserves huge credit for their 'reels' algorithm. I follow a bunch
        of science influencers, and their content frequently blows my mind, and
        it's just one great vid after another.
        
        Something I would love is 'social media dotfiles', so I could export my
        list and share it with others. And vice-versa.
       
        jbverschoor wrote 1 day ago:
        Change to chronologic timeline, and you'll be cured for your addiction
        superfast
       
        morissette wrote 1 day ago:
        See I don’t scroll; not scrolling means not seeing the junk. I just
        post and log off.
       
        maurycyz wrote 1 day ago:
        Very predictable: If Facebook (or any other social media site) showed
        you what you wanted to see --- stuff from your friends --- you would be
        satisfied and leave.
        
        ... but Facebook makes money off ads. They don't want you leaving. They
        want you to stay online all day.
        
        Instead, they show you brainrot: content interesting enough to keep you
        on the site, but shallow enough that you are always thirsty for more.
        However, making this content is still a lot of work, and isn't what
        most people want to do: It takes a lot of brainrot to keep you trapped
        24/7.
        
        Slop requires no effort, costs next to nothing, and fills the
        "brainrot" niche perfectly. Facebook doesn't care that people are
        posting bot content, because it's the perfect thing to make them money.
       
        kmfrk wrote 1 day ago:
        Also came across this today about how Meta is allotting 5% of ad spend
        on AI testing for Gen AI. Which leads to unintentional Gen AI
        promotions across Instagram and Facebook - mind you for companies who
        paid for the promotion.
        
  HTML  [1]: https://bsky.app/profile/bexsaltsman.bsky.social/post/3me4ybay...
       
        scaredreally wrote 1 day ago:
        My main use case for FB is a group related to reviewing restaurants in
        the area. I have no FB friends/connections. I use messenger for my one
        friend who insists on using it. It is mostly slop (and strangely I get
        posts from that same relationship account), I scroll for about 5
        minutes at a time before I realize it is not worth looking at. And
        truthfully, that is what I want from social media: a few minutes worth
        of distraction followed by the feeling that I had just wasted my time
        and then on to something more meaningful.
       
        mortsnort wrote 1 day ago:
        It's definitely cooked in the sense that the content is garbage, but
        whenever was that not true?
        
        I'm hoping they're cooked because they're putting all of their eggs in
        the AGI basket instead of making useful AI products, and they probably
        won't figure out AGI.
       
        yfw wrote 1 day ago:
        You guys are lucky most of mine are scam ads and ragebait
       
        neo_doom wrote 1 day ago:
        The AI slop problem is not going away, unfortunately. Its surprising
        that the social media companies don't see AI slop as an existential
        threat to their platform? I guess its an indicator of how low we've
        sunk that 'any' engagement is good engagement.
        
        If it was up to me, I think AI content should be OPT IN. I must choose
        to view AI content and not be force fed from the conveyor of slop. This
        is where governments should legislate but we'll never see this happen.
       
        eastbayjake wrote 1 day ago:
        This dynamic carries into Threads, where Meta AI slop is aggressively
        pushed in the feed.
        
        There's also a significant amount of viral content that is clearly an
        older person's Facebook post which was intended for only friends but
        got pushed to the public feed of a Threads account that may have been
        created by accident -- or default -- when Facebook blitz-scaled user
        numbers after launch. The posts are always hundreds of people piling on
        about someone posting a photo of their teenager in an embarrassing
        situation, with the original poster probably blissfully unaware that
        they're getting publicly dragged on Threads.
        
        Check your parents' phones to see if they're publicly cross-posting on
        accident!
       
        j45 wrote 1 day ago:
        This could be true, and/or a large percentage of the people who spend a
        large amount in the economy are on these platforms.
        
        The surprising effectiveness of Meta Ads for certain audiences as
        counter-intuitive as it seems is one example.
       
        einpoklum wrote 1 day ago:
        What happens when you log on to Facebook with uBlock Origin (not lite),
        plus EFF Privacy Badger, with appropriate settings, enabled? Is it
        possible to get to a state where some/most of these Facebook-suggested
        items are not visible? Or is there no separation between the
        promoted/artificial and organic (if I can use that term) content?
        
        I wouldn't know myself; I tried Facebook in... I think 2010 or so, but
        found it to be highly addictive and not worth it, so I quit after
        several weeks. Since then, while I knew that I occassionaly missed some
        useful group to be in, I've not regretted the decision.
       
        dlev_pika wrote 1 day ago:
        I remember Zuckzuck saying out loud that his vision for the platform
        was that people wouldn’t need actual humans to interact with, and
        bots is what you’d mostly get.
        
        I’ve used it enough to understand this is happening now. Literally
        impossible to distinguish, unless you know the person.
       
        drivebyhooting wrote 1 day ago:
        > So long Facebook, see you never, until one day I inexplicably need to
        use your platform to get updates from my kid's school.
        
        This part here kills me. I’ve also been forced to engage in the
        Zuckerverse. I hate WhatsApp.
       
        AnotherGoodName wrote 1 day ago:
        Just reminder that when Meta stock went to ~90 in late 2022 we had
        non-stop “Facebook is dead I don’t know anyone that uses it lol”
        posts on reddit, hackernews, etc. The stock is ~650 today.
        
        We are not the target audience.
       
        aero142 wrote 1 day ago:
        Instagram is gone as well. Everything is fake in different ways. If the
        video isn't ai generated, then it's influencers acting out a scenario
        they think will get engagement. I realized that when it's a real video,
        there is a caption that says some scenario is happening, but there is
        nothing in the video that shows that is real. I think people are just
        reposting videos with different captions and testing out whatever
        invented scenario make the video have the most views.
       
        ksherlock wrote 1 day ago:
        I have a theory about facebook (and youtube!) showing absolute garbage
        recommendations.
        
        Somewhere, there's an algorithm designed to increase engagement.  And
        it doesn't care what kind of engagement, so clicking the "I'm not
        interested in this garbage" button is just as engaging as liking or
        watching or commenting.
       
        jedberg wrote 1 day ago:
        > So: is this just something wacky with my algorithm?
        
        No, it's not.  Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost
        exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do.  It started about
        two years ago.
        
        Some other interesting points:    A woman posted on reddit recently
        saying she noticed her son's feed was filled with this stuff, so she
        created her own instagram account, identified as a man, and had the
        same feed.  No matter what she did she couldn't fix it.  She asked
        other women about this, and they all said their partner's feeds were
        the same.
        
        This is not a problem for women.  At least not one I've ever talked to
        or read about on the internet.
        
        Another point:    I tried very hard to fix this at one point.  I went
        through instagram and hit like on nothing but pottery and parenting
        videos.  For about a week I had a feed that looked like my wife's --
        pottery and parenting.    And then it reverted.
        
        I got a whole bunch of thirst traps again.
        
        It doesn't bother me anymore, I just tune it out and scroll past it
        because my feed still has the parenting and pottery too, and my
        friend's updates, which is what I'm there for.
        
        But it would be good for more people to learn about this so they don't
        get angry when they see their male-identified partners/friends feeds.
       
          veunes wrote 22 hours 41 min ago:
          The part I really agree with is the social impact
       
          tallanvor wrote 23 hours 12 min ago:
          I don't.  Instead Facebook tries to shove right-wing crap down my
          throat.  I'd rather see the thirst trap posts, to be honest.
          
          Snapchat, on the other hand, I had to uninstall because the stuff
          they tried to make me view was completely and utterly disgusting
          (think pimple-popping vids and worse).    There was only one person
          left that I communicated with through their app, so it wasn't a real
          loss for me.
       
          grogenaut wrote 1 day ago:
          Mine started as women with ample posteriors at hockey games but
          quickly switched to police arguing with people and really sick ski
          and snowboarding videos. The police stuff is trailing off.
          
          I do ski patrol, guess it thought, a ski cop, I liked cops and
          skiing. Oh I was also getting a lot of ai generated bane videos. Felt
          sorry for that guy, judge was real inhumane to him.
       
          basch wrote 1 day ago:
          Interestingly enough when you tell Facebook you’re not interested
          in a post you can answer why: doesn’t match interests, spam,
          sexual, insult, don’t like creator.  One of those isn’t like the
          other.
          
          There’s a couple other pseudo-erudite slop holes you can fall into.
           One is scientific breakthroughs, one is psychedelic philosophical
          ramblings, and one is historical summarizations.  They all kind of
          fall into a Ripley’s Believe it or Not style of trying to be mind
          blowing.
          
          If you say not interested to every suggested post of something you
          don’t follow, it’ll try a couple topics and then revert for a bit
          to exclusively things you do follow.
       
          is_true wrote 1 day ago:
          They might have multiple types of men because it only shows me all
          kind of outdoor activities + construction tips
       
          gcanyon wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook knows I'm male, and I see things like this very rarely -- on
          the order of one or two a month. Maybe that's FB ('s algorithm)
          testing my "defenses": they/it show me something like that as an
          experiment, and if I ever clicked on it, the floodgates would open.
          
          But I don't, so it doesn't. Or maybe FB knows I'm happily married and
          that won't work on me in the first place.
          
          Or maybe FB knows I'm a sucker for chess and go puzzles, so they're
          my equivalent of this?
       
          slibhb wrote 1 day ago:
          Is it because "Meta identifies you as a male" or because men look
          longer at sexy pictures of women? I assume Meta has some heuristic to
          determine how long you look at items in their feed even if you don't
          click anything.
       
          asveikau wrote 1 day ago:
          >  Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost exclusively
          thirst trap posts no matter what you do.
          
          I don't know what I did, but this has not been true of my account. A
          few years ago I did notice a sharp increase of AI slop filled with
          comments thinking it was real, which I found hilarious, but it wasn't
          thirst traps. It was more like "this person has a hidden talent and
          they are sad because they aren't recognized. Show them some love."
          And the person is obviously fake. I saw the same fake AI people in
          multiple languages.
          
          Anyway, after a while that stuff lessened a lot, and the feed is a
          bit more reasonable. Mainly I get stuff that was posted on TikTok a
          few months ago. Lately there are a lot of quotations from the Epstein
          files.
       
          Footprint0521 wrote 1 day ago:
          This is why I gave up on social media
       
          andai wrote 1 day ago:
          I have the same thing on YouTube. I usually use adblock but I used
          youtube without adblock recently and was startled by the ads. It's
          either "AI girlfriend", or video games, or video games about AI
          girlfriends. (I don't play video games, and I'm not interested in AI
          girlfriend. At least Meta shows me ads about stuff I actually find
          interesting!)
          
          But my experience is constantly interrupted by images of scantily
          clad AI generated women. I'm no prude but it seems more than a little
          inappropriate to me.
          
          Oh yeah and the other 10% of the ads are about exploding children.
          
          I think I am going to install Adblock again...
       
          jalapenos wrote 1 day ago:
          Algorithm has discovered dudes like boobs.
          
          More news at ten.
       
          grishka wrote 1 day ago:
          > Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost exclusively
          thirst trap posts no matter what you do.
          
          What if you're gay though. They have to be able to detect that
          somehow too
       
            alsetmusic wrote 1 day ago:
            Then they'd undoubtedly show you hot guys. I don't know why this
            wouldn't be the obvious answer.
       
            Xenoamorphous wrote 1 day ago:
            Probably still a relatively small percentage of the total for them
            to care.
       
              steve_adams_86 wrote 1 day ago:
              My understanding is that it's likely somewhere around 7.5% for
              men and women. Including bisexual people brings it closer to 10%.
              That's based on self-reporting, I think. I'm not sure how
              significant that would be in Meta's world.
              
              Among men this would only be 3 or 4%. Probably not that
              significant given how coarse the strategy itself is.
       
          guerrilla wrote 1 day ago:
          > No, it's not. Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost
          exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do. It started about
          two years ago.
          
          Bullshit. This happens because you engaged. I never engaged with it
          in the slightest and it disappeared. I mostly just get snakes and
          local stuff now.
       
            Sxubas wrote 1 day ago:
            I can second this. The app basically shows more of what is proven
            to keep you in the app. It's kinda revealing to be frank: instead
            of getting mad with it just do some introspection.
       
          alecco wrote 1 day ago:
          I just tried this: browse YouTube with incognito and watching 3
          engineering vids only (Veritasium, Real Engineering, and Practical
          Engineering).
          
          The home page shorts are about 50% thirst traps. There is creepy
          stuff, click-bait, and American politics/news (for and against
          Trump).
          
          The worst one is a short "this is why ram costs $900" by "discord
          memes" showing a young girl with revealing clothing. Almost 1 million
          views.
          
          I closed my YouTube account years ago because it was just pissing me
          off.
       
            me4502 wrote 1 day ago:
            I feel this issue has started to slowly become worse and worse as
            we've been able to build better "preference profiles" based on
            small amounts of data. I notice it often when watching a single
            YouTube video in incognito mode, the sidebar is usually full of
            fairly racist Australian content (I am Australian). This is
            something I would never normally see, and not something that's
            likely coming from whatever video I've decided to watch in
            incognito. It's likely just assuming based on what's a common trend
            in my location.
            
            If an algorithm knows you well, it's usually pretty okay, but until
            that point you're being bombarded with lowest common denominator
            content based on your demographic. Shorts seems to be even worse;
            mine is mostly science facts and comedy skits, I didn't understand
            the "brainrot" descriptions until I looked at a few in incognito
            mode.
       
          djmips wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't have them... :/
       
          3RTB297 wrote 1 day ago:
          Also can confirm. From the first moment I started an IG account (at
          my wife's request), the default algorithm was to give me almost
          exclusively thirst trap posts with zero geographic or other relevance
          to me. I had to weed through thirst trap accounts that were brought
          up before hers - when searching by user name.
          
          I took a few minutes a day to search for cat pictures and cooking
          videos, and sharing cat videos with my spouse (her reason for using
          IG). It was a fight, but after a few days the thirst trap suggestions
          immediately flipped to giving me stuff I can look at in public and
          not feel like a massive creep. There was a long tail, with occasional
          "....are you sure?" suggestions, but at this point a couple years of
          carefully reinforcing the same stuff seems to have overwhelmed the
          thirst trap suggestions.
       
            npodbielski wrote 1 day ago:
            The sole reason for not using those sites is the whole knowledge
            that you have to do this crap.
       
          throwaway290 wrote 1 day ago:
          This is really false. I will join the chorus of others and say i
          don't get that stuff in my feeds. Although maybe meta doesn't
          identify me as guy
       
          disillusioned wrote 1 day ago:
          Just click search on Instagram and BAM, thirst trap central. Don't
          have to have ever interacted with ANY of them, liked any of them, or
          follow anything CLOSE to that content, it's coming for you if you're
          a male between the ages of 18-99 that, presumably, the algo thinks is
          straight-leaning.
          
          My _feed_ on Instagram is a bit more curated and sticks closer to
          that curation: weird music stuff, weird instrument stuff, and because
          I show my daughter a lot of it, Broadway musical stuff/BTS
          content/other actually interesting/cool stuff. So generally speaking
          my IG feed is curated and good. My FB feed is still trash; it feels
          like it casts a much wider net, but I've also been proactively
          following accounts that interest me on IG and don't do that much at
          all on FB (except some stand up comedians, since the format is
          actually really good for casual bite-sized scrolling).
          
          But IG search... woooooo boy, it's _wild_. I have to hide my phone
          away from my daughter when I'm trying to pull up a specific account
          because the search interface is completely bikini-clad crazy thirst
          content. And again, I've literally never engaged or interacted or
          even really _lingered_ on any of those posts. It just goes for it.
       
            wedog6 wrote 1 day ago:
            One of the creepiest aspects of this is that the 'thirsty content'
            is mainly mainly AI-generated pictures by spammers who know what
            they are doing, but also includes 'correlated' posts by normal
            users.
            
            Eg you have a 15-year-old daughter and post a picture of her
            smiling in school uniform on Instagram because it's her birthday or
            something. The algorithm takes that post and shows it to randomly
            selected men who often interact with pictures of attractive female
            teenagers, even though none of your other posts get shared like
            this outside of your connections.
       
              alsetmusic wrote 1 day ago:
              > The algorithm takes that post and shows it to randomly selected
              men who often interact with pictures of attractive female
              teenagers, even though none of your other posts get shared like
              this outside of your connections.
              
              What evidence suggests this?
              
              I don't use any Meta services and I absolutely hate them and
              consider them evil. I know they do awful, terrible things and if
              someone has evidence of this I will believe it given Meta's track
              record. But this is far enough outside my current understanding
              of the awful things that they do, or people claim they do, that
              it needs a source.
       
                wedog6 wrote 18 hours 15 min ago:
                Source:
                
  HTML          [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/sep/20/par...
       
                  bdangubic wrote 17 hours 47 min ago:
                  that is nothing compared to this: [1] Meta is beyond evil,
                  like waaaaay beyond evil. In a normal society (that ship has
                  said for us a while ago) the company would be shut down and
                  everyone running it at the top level would be in prison for
                  life
                  
  HTML            [1]: https://futurism.com/facebook-beauty-targeted-ads
       
          thephyber wrote 1 day ago:
          > But it would be good for more people to learn about this so they
          don't get angry when they see their male-identified partners/friends
          feeds.
          
          You seem to be assuming that none of them fall for the thirst traps.
          The reason thirst traps exist is because they work a good percentage
          of the time.
          
          And despite your confident statement that “it doesn’t bother me
          anymore”, you only become “banner blind” to some content. The
          more authentic the content appears or the closer the topic is to
          something you are interested in, the more likely you are to engage
          with it.
          
          I try to avoid BookFace with a passion, but I struggle with these
          issues on YouTube. My solution is to never browse YouTube while
          logged in, always use Incognito Mode, depend on browser bookmarks
          (instead of like/subscribe), and to close the browser as soon as I
          realize The Algo is pushing content I don’t care for.
       
          kwanbix wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook changes to be more like TikTok. Content to generate
          addiction so they can sell more adds.
       
          steezeburger wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't like anything even slightly thirst trappy, and my fyp is
          clean.
       
          boxedemp wrote 1 day ago:
          This is one of the reasons I always identify as non-binary when
          asked.
       
            GorbachevyChase wrote 1 day ago:
            That is a pretty clever algorithm hack. I wonder if you get
            bombarded with pharmaceutical ads as a consequence.
       
              boxedemp wrote 1 day ago:
              I block pretty much all ads, but that's an interesting question.
       
              Melonai wrote 1 day ago:
              I also put "non-binary" somewhere on Instagram, and almost every
              single ad is clothing related, mostly alternative fashion. I'm
              guessing that's partially aimed at my interests but I almost
              never buy clothes online, especially not from Instagram.
              Occasionally I see advertisements for surveys about LGBT people
              and also sometimes very rarely support sites on how to find
              queer-friendly therapists, and I bet I could find someone to
              prescribe something on such a site, but in total I've probably
              only seen 1-2 ads like that. Never direct pharmaceutical ads
              though, I do wonder what that would look like...
       
                Melonai wrote 1 day ago:
                I also wanted to add a story about my fiancé's Instagram
                account feed, which degenerated into this sort of stuff out of
                nowhere one day. He has an account about art, he curated his
                feed, reels, explore tab so that he can see content by other
                people in his niche, I've seen it myself, all his reels were
                correctly related to what the account was about. Then one day,
                out of nowhere, all that disappeared. It's as if the algorithm
                completely reset, and reverted this account to a completely
                blank slate, around 1-2 years back. To this day if you look at
                his explore tab, it's about 75% thirst traps (and I doubt this
                is the kind he'd be interested in), alongside some extremely
                broad reaching content, some soccer memes in foreign languages,
                some "skits", if you can call them that, and extremely bad
                generic "memes". I saw it happen in front of me, he did not
                engage with anything like that, he's also not really the type
                to click on random thirst traps and he has no trouble spotting
                the usual AI slop. It happened from one hour to another, in an
                instant. He's still mad about it.
       
          neoromantique wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't know, just an anecdote:
          
          I populated my Instagram/FB Account with my interests (I mainly have
          the accounts to follow local racing leagues / marketplaces), and
          feeds are mostly cars and tech stuff, seldom do I see any thirst
          traps in it (including reels).
       
          Nursie wrote 1 day ago:
          > no matter what you do
          
          I made them go down markedly by setting my age to be over 100.
          Doesn’t stop some of the thirst trap ‘reels’, but all the
          “Asian women would like to get to know middle aged guys like
          you!” bullshit went away.
       
          kccqzy wrote 1 day ago:
          I don’t understand. What you describe is foreign to me. My
          Instagram only has posts from people I follow, as well as generic ads
          like newspapers. I have not seen any of these thirst trap posts (not
          that I would find these posts appealing; they aren’t my type
          anyways).
       
          chupchap wrote 1 day ago:
          I was able to tame it on Instagram by actively blocking 3-4 accounts
          every day and then engaging with accounts of just one topic; I picked
          Cricket. That said, I don't use the discovery section much so when I
          revisit after a few weeks it resets to filth. So the way it works is
          if I go to the discovery tab and like a couple of random cricket
          videos. It keeps it sane to an extent. Facebook is a different story
          though
       
          sershe wrote 1 day ago:
          I feel like for me (a man) algorithm is super sensitive to
          engagement. If I er I mean my friend would look at these thirst
          traps, I er I mean my friend would have feed 90% full of them. On the
          other hand if I watch anything else I get none, and instead it's 90%
          epoxy table making, home inspection fails, rats solving puzzles,
          climbing videos or whatever it is I watched. Seems like mixing it up
          would be better, I can only watch so many rats solving puzzles.
       
          the_af wrote 1 day ago:
          > No, it's not. Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost
          exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do. It started about
          two years ago.
          
          This isn't my experience at all. I get "sexy girls" reels, but
          infrequently and that's it. No other "thirst traps" at all, most of
          my feed is relevant to my interests too. Been on fb for many years
          now.
       
          dunham wrote 1 day ago:
          I commented on a relatives post about a giant zucchini, and started
          getting posts about zucchinis in my feed. A couple of years ago,
          Facebook noticed that I stopped scrolling for calvin and hobbes
          comics and started showing me a bunch of those for a while.
          
          I finally got the deletion thing to not error out and am almost at
          the end of the 30 day deletion period.
       
          rconti wrote 1 day ago:
          I've been a male (it's in my profile!) for all 22 years (yikes) I've
          been using facebook.  I don't get that stuff.
       
            eek2121 wrote 1 day ago:
            There is definitely more to this. I’ve been on Facebook since it
            opened up to the public, and they know for a fact that I am a guy.
            
            I literally only use it to communicate with family. I logged in
            today on both desktop and iOS, and the only thing I saw were
            updates from friends/family that I personally know.The only AI
            things were from a nerdy friend that created/shared/disclosed of it
            being AI, the rest was real stuff that I already knew about.
            
            If users are seeing this, it is more likely something to do with
            settings, Facebook not knowing anything about you, or some other
            mechanism.
            
            I am absolutely not holding them blameless, I am saying: compare
            notes and identify the actual problem, because I know a lot of
            folks using Facebook, and from conversations I had in the past hour
            or two, none of them see any of that, so there is likely something
            else going on.
       
              walt_grata wrote 20 hours 8 min ago:
              They aren't blameless, friends and family only should be the
              default even if you don't engage much. Why would they default it
              to a bunch of junk.
       
              steezeburger wrote 1 day ago:
              I think they definitely track how long you stay on something as
              you're scrolling. They show an attractive woman doing your hobby,
              then it just keeps going.
       
                j-bos wrote 1 day ago:
                Yeah it's an optimized skinner box. Any reaction above baseline
                is sure to be registered and reinforced.
       
          eek2121 wrote 1 day ago:
          Are we using 2 different versions of Facebook? I get nothing except
          content from my friends. None of it is AI generated. I just logged in
          because the article was a bit disturbing. The only AI content I found
          was the small amount a couple of my friends generated, and it was
          clearly marked as such.
       
            jedberg wrote 1 day ago:
            Based on the upvotes my comment got and the replies, it looks like
            most people get the experience in the article, and a lucky few
            don't.    Looks like you're one of the lucky few!
       
          dom96 wrote 1 day ago:
          Have you tried clicking "Show me less like this" on those thirst trap
          posts?
       
            jedberg wrote 1 day ago:
            Many many times.  It works for about an hour.  I gave up.  I've
            been on the internet long enough to have a pretty strong mental ad
            blocker. :)
       
            disantlor wrote 1 day ago:
            yes i deleted facebook eventually because they would not stop
            showing me this stuff despite clicking “show me less” many
            times
       
          htrp wrote 1 day ago:
          it's unfortunately not just your algorithm, but the views and likes
          of people who match your demographic specs....
       
          dagurp wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't get anything like that. Just memes and people complaining
          about dog poo
       
            jedberg wrote 1 day ago:
            Are you looking at your feed or the reels?  It happens in the reels
            (and on Instagram if you go the search page, most of the suggested
            items are thirsty)
       
              GreenDolphinSys wrote 1 day ago:
              That may apply to a vanilla account, but if your account is old,
              then that's just the kind of stuff you click like on, dwell on,
              bookmark, etc. We have to consider that these men may not be
              honest about their activity as well.
              
              The search and reels page just shows you what you interact with,
              and in my experience it tends to overreact to recent input. Look
              at a couple cat reels for example, and the very next or so
              refresh will have more cat reels.
       
                jedberg wrote 1 day ago:
                My Facebook account is 21 years old and my Instagram is
                probably 15 years old.
                
                This problem only started about two years ago. I didn’t
                change my behavior.
       
          pwrsysengineer wrote 1 day ago:
          I created a Facebook account a few years ago to get in on the local
          marketplace deals. After opening the website a few times and seeing
          very suggestive content, I had the idea of tailoring my feed to the
          most racy things I could find. Eventually, my feed was filled images
          of children wearing bathing suits and in suggestive positions,
          censored images of sexual acts, and AI generated images of elderly
          women with large breasts and little clothing. I was taking
          screenshots for a while but one time I opened my photo gallery while
          on the train and realized how embarrassing it looked to have a phone
          filled with this crap.
          Edit: Used more respectful language
       
            xethos wrote 1 day ago:
            > my feed was filled images of children wearing bathing suits and
            in suggestive positions
            
            > I was taking screenshots for a while
            
            More than a little surprised this seemed like a good idea at the
            time, let alone that you did so for a while without thinking "There
            is no scenario this ends well"
       
              pwrsysengineer wrote 1 day ago:
              It does sound bad, and yes I deleted them. I wanted to convince
              my friends at Meta of what I was seeing. They didn't believe me
              until I showed them.
       
                DANmode wrote 18 hours 16 min ago:
                Meanwhile, the algorithm is noticing you paused there, “This
                guy can’t get enough of this stuff!”.
       
            someotherperson wrote 1 day ago:
            Yeah you should probably delete those photos. Nobody is going to
            believe your story (myself included).
       
              replwoacause wrote 1 day ago:
              The part of the story I believe is the part about basically half
              naked children on Facebook, whether real or AI. I haven't put
              anything on my profile for the algorithm to tailor content to,
              since it's used for only marketplace and I've seen some very
              disturbing content that looked like it slithered off of X. It was
              as suggestive and inappropriate as you could be about kids,
              without  being full-on porn. And Facebook/Meta seem to have no
              problem with it. It's a trash heap of a site and everyone
              involved with it working at Meta should be ashamed.
       
          munificent wrote 1 day ago:
          I just tried to repro this.
          
          On my Facebook account, I scrolled through 30 posts without seeing
          anything thirsty. Mostly synthesizer stuff, stuff for my kids'
          schools, and a few posts from friends. It definitely knows I'm male
          because the ads are for men's apparel.
          
          Instagram was the same.
          
          I never ever watch reels or other short form video, so maybe that has
          something to do with it.
       
            thephyber wrote 1 day ago:
            You didn’t try hard to repro it.
            
            Facebook uses your likes / groups / searches to customize your
            feed. If are active and don’t delete your old content, you have
            already trained FB to avoid the thirst traps for your account.
            
            The article author said he was off-site site for 8 years, so FB was
            offering him random high engagement content to stuff his feed so he
            didn’t reach the end.
       
              throwaway290 wrote 1 day ago:
              he is replying to
              
              > Once Meta identifies you as male, you will get almost
              exclusively thirst trap posts no matter what you do. It started
              about two years ago.
              
              if meta identifies him as guy and he don't get a thirst trap
              after a minute then it's totally not "almost exclusively thirst
              trap".
       
                trymas wrote 1 day ago:
                Though OC also said:
                
                > Another point: I tried very hard to fix this at one point. I
                went through instagram and hit like on nothing but pottery and
                parenting videos. For about a week I had a feed that looked
                like my wife's -- pottery and parenting. And then it reverted.
                
                So I guess it depends how active you are? My speculation would
                be (that would match the article) - if facebook figures out
                you’re a man, but you don’t actively like and engage with
                specific topics - it will default to AI thirst trap slop.
       
                  NewsaHackO wrote 1 day ago:
                  No, if he's been looking at material that indicates an
                  interest in thirst trap stuff for years, then looks at
                  pottery for a couple of weeks, the algorithm correctly
                  identifies that he isn't really into pottery and corrects
                  back.
       
                    jedberg wrote 1 day ago:
                    Except that I am into pottery, and I'm a parent into
                    parenting stuff.  But instead of just liking the stuff it
                    was showing me, I made the extra effort to seek out that
                    content and like more of it in an attempt to train the
                    algo.
                    
                    Also, as I mentioned elsewhere, this problem only started
                    about two years ago, and I've had instagram for 15 years. 
                    So either they did something differently, or suddenly there
                    was a lot more of that content, but I didn't change my
                    habits.
                    
                    Also, as a funny side note, scrolling my feed this morning
                    was suddenly thirst-trap free for the first time in years.
       
                      NewsaHackO wrote 1 day ago:
                      I don't have an Instagram, so maybe they did change their
                      algorithm recently. However, remember that the whole
                      concept of "training the algorithm" and "not wanting to
                      mess up your algorithm" has been a common saying for
                      years at this point. Unfortunately, this is against what
                      the social media companies actually want, which is more
                      engagement. So they start to look at other factors that
                      are more difficult to game. For instance, it may have
                      noticed that you linger at images of thirst traps more
                      than other images it shows. In fact, it may notice that
                      while you are purposely liking pictures of pottery and
                      parenting, the actual pictures that you are liking have
                      both thirst trap qualities and pottery/parenting
                      qualities. Not accusing you of anything, just saying that
                      that is the pattern they use because they know that
                      overtly liking thirst trap pictures may be frowned upon.
       
                    trymas wrote 1 day ago:
                    > he's been looking at material that indicates an interest
                    in thirst trap stuff for years
                    
                    N is obviously too small to get anything meaningful, though
                    article was about the same problem and article’s author
                    haven’t visited facebook for 8 years…
                    
                    Cannot say about FB or IG, but on Youtube I get way too
                    many “AI girlfriend” ads or video recommendations. I
                    report as many as I can and my subscription channels are as
                    far away from such topics as it can be. Thus I totally
                    understand OC and article’s author.
       
                    throwaway290 wrote 1 day ago:
                    Yep. It's far from "it knows you're male => it gives you
                    thirst traps non stop"
                    
                    But also I will say that curating algo feed to show what
                    you want is annoying and ultra frustrating, whenever it
                    goes off the rails it makes me want to quit.
       
            disillusioned wrote 1 day ago:
            If you click Search in Instagram, what's it show you by default,
            before you enter a search term?
       
            jedberg wrote 1 day ago:
            It's happens in the reels.  I don't really see thirsty posts in my
            feed either, just people I follow for the most part.
       
              munificent wrote 1 day ago:
              Yet another reason to avoid attention-span-destroying short form
              video. :)
       
          chasd00 wrote 1 day ago:
          i rarely log into facebook too but i do use marketplace. I just
          pulled it up on my phone, the "reels" thing was all AI + thirst traps
          just like you described but the rest of my feed was pretty plain
          vanilla posts from friends/family i follow + some ads.
       
          brational wrote 1 day ago:
          ha.. I was about to type this exact paragraph. my instagram has no
          human connections, I only follow local business (food, bars,
          museums/gardens, non profits, etc) so I can be aware of specials &
          things. I have no followers. I don't really like anything but clearly
          engage with cooking stuff, funny animal videos, comedy in general.
          Multiple languages. lots of crossover.
          
          Honestly it's a pretty great instagram experience.
          
          And yes I'm a middle aged male so no matter what the smut comes back
          (at least I get it in multiple languages too?)
       
          elAhmo wrote 1 day ago:
          I get similar ads in Youtube Shorts. It was appearing only when I was
          abroad, and I was curious to see what is triggering it, it was
          mostly: male, 18+, location in country X. Same happens now in a
          country where I live.
          
          Most of the reported ads don't get taken down by Google, although
          they are very obviously AI porn ads.
       
          bityard wrote 1 day ago:
          Can confirm. For as long as I've been on facebook (way over a decade
          now), I've only used it to share pics of my kids/pets to
          family/friends. I unfollow people who post political and other
          garbage content. And yet, my feed is nothing but ads and Reels of
          young women bouncing on trampolines in bikinis.
       
            mrweasel wrote 1 day ago:
            One thought I've had is that it has to do with your level of
            engangement. If like me you doesn't really use social media for
            more than a few minutes a day (in my case I count Snapchat and
            YouTube Shorts, because that's what I have), then you start seeing
            some a lot of boobs.
            
            It seems like the algorithm panics, because you don't engange with
            anything much, or because your interests shifts to often and it
            can't deal with it. So it falls back to boobs.
            
            There's also a sad trend of assuming that because you're into
            lifting, your also  misogynistic. The more you engange with fitness
            content, even if it's training programs or how to correctly do
            certain exercises, platforms like YouTube will start flinging
            misogynistic content at you and it's incredibly hard to remove.
       
              j-bos wrote 1 day ago:
              > The more you engange with fitness content, even if it's
              training programs or how to correctly do certain exercises,
              platforms like YouTube will start flinging misogynistic content
              at you and it's incredibly hard to remove.
              
              That explains why out of no where I got reccomendations for some
              gender conflict greentext channel, I had just that week been
              looking for lifting techniques.
       
                mrweasel wrote 1 day ago:
                Yes, I get those as well. Happens everything I've been looking
                a lifting videos for a day or two. Give it a bit more time and
                you'll get videos of right wing women explaining why modern
                women can't get dates.
                
                It is fairly concerning and there's not real good way of
                telling YouTube that you're not interested. The dislike button
                does little and blocking the channel is also pretty ineffective
                as there are a myriad of channels with the similar content
                which you'll just be served instead.
       
                  j-bos wrote 1 day ago:
                  So I've actually had great results by hitting not interested
                  on all such videos. Youtube is actually my favorite algo
                  because barring unexpected pipelines like fitness to red
                  pills my home feed is 90% things I consider worth watching,
                  assuming infinite time of course.
       
              NewsaHackO wrote 1 day ago:
              The issue is that they are very smart/subversive; they definitely
              track the amount of time you spend looking at certain pictures
              vs. others. So while you may be careful not to directly engage
              with certain material, if they noticed that you pause a little
              more at certain pics than others, and there is a pattern in the
              common topic in the pictures that you pause at, they use that
              information to create your interest profile.
       
                pityJuke wrote 1 day ago:
                This is it - you’ve got to be deliberate in scrolling
                immediately past anything remotely thirst-trappy, otherwise the
                algorithm hyperfixates. And then overstay your welcome at the
                type of content you want to see.
                
                In my experience, it has worked (my discover page is an
                amalgamation of classic Simpsons, Dropout.tv, and Whose Line Is
                It Anyway?, while my Reels feed is unhinged in the right way.)
                But also I’ve stopped using it because my brain was melting.
       
          AlexandrB wrote 1 day ago:
          Meta rediscovering the age-old adage that "sex sells". The core
          concept is little different than old car commercials featuring
          scantily clad women but with the plausible deniability of an
          algorithm so Meta can wash their hands of any negative consequences.
       
        sMarsIntruder wrote 1 day ago:
        > I know Twitter/X has worse problems with spam bots in the replies,
        but this is the News Feed!
        
        Probably not using it from ages.
       
        mbo wrote 1 day ago:
        My mother is an international flight attendant in her 60s.
        
        I recently caught a glimpse of her Facebook and I was shocked to
        discover a version of the website that seemed to be the platonic ideal
        of exactly what all the Facebook PMs intended. Her feed was filled with
        the photos of her friends and coworkers international trips and
        holidays, posts in groups for planning activities in her most
        frequented cities. But I discovered that my mum was also a frequent
        "poster" of the photos of her various trips around the world, and the
        comments sections were filled with with some beautiful messages from
        her many many friends and family.
        
        From this I learned that there is a subset of the population that
        Facebook works perfectly for and meaningfully improves their real-world
        social relationships. And perhaps Facebook has been hyper-optimized for
        that kind of use case through relentless A/B testing. But I fear my mum
        is quite privileged  to have this kind of experience.
       
          derefr wrote 22 hours 5 min ago:
          Interesting.
          
          So the presumption, then, would be that Facebook only turns on the
          slop-content hose to "fill the void" on many people's dashboards from
          a lack of organic content from people they follow? I.e. that if you
          were personal friends with enough other frequently-posting Facebook
          users, the slop-content would disappear?
       
          veunes wrote 22 hours 46 min ago:
          Your mum's experience is probably what FB is best at: high-trust
          network, lots of original photos, lots of comments from real friends
       
          nradov wrote 1 day ago:
          My Facebook feed is also like that (although with more underwater
          pictures of fish). It seems fine. I don't think I'm particularly
          privileged. I honestly don't understand the hate that FB gets here on
          HN. Maybe some users are just following the wrong accounts?
       
            magicalist wrote 1 day ago:
            > I honestly don't understand the hate that FB gets here on HN.
            Maybe some users are just following the wrong accounts?
            
            Sounds like you do understand the hate but you don't understand how
            their feeds ended up different than yours?
       
          hackernewds wrote 1 day ago:
          Maybe you are too young to have noticed, but this is how Facebook
          used to be for every one. Until some a/b testing likely led to short
          term engagement boosts for news content and that's all you could see
          - especially during the 2016 news cycle with (allegedly Russian)
          political ads. Then people stopped posting, and others stopped
          posting, feedback loop and here we are.
       
            mgraczyk wrote 1 day ago:
            This is lie, I was there and this is not at all what happened
       
              dang wrote 23 hours 39 min ago:
              I appreciate the voice of experience but if you're going to post
              a comment like this, could you please share some of that
              experience so we know at least some of what did happen?
              
              Otherwise it comes across as a drive-by swipe, which is a human
              reaction when you know that something on the internet is wrong,
              but which degrades the threads, partly because of the example it
              sets for others. The life of this community depends on
              knowledgeable people sharing some of what they know, so the rest
              of us can learn.
              
  HTML        [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
       
                mgraczyk wrote 21 hours 12 min ago:
                Fair and sorry about that
                
                Specifically what happened, and I think this is all public now
                is that prior to 2016 journalists and news organizations argued
                that Facebook was demoting news for various reasons. In reality
                it wasn't very engaging so it was automatically demoted. They
                promised to boost news more in early 2016, but largely as a
                result of worse engagement and negative experiences (arguing in
                comments) Facebook started ranking news worse than other
                content. This all happened in 2016, months before the general
                election
                
                And while Russia did run ads, it was mostly not political and
                the political content they ran had very little engagement.
                Russia mostly focuses on conspiracy theories and undermining
                American institutions. Facebook was aware of this in 2016 and
                certainly did not contribute to it intentionally, and I don't
                believe even by accident of some kind of misguided A/B testing
                
                The reason Facebook got worse for younger people is because
                younger people stopped posting.
       
                  dang wrote 18 hours 38 min ago:
                  Thank you! both for the kind response and the informative
                  reply :)
       
          kmeisthax wrote 1 day ago:
          I would love to know what kind of ascetic mental training you have to
          do to get your Facebook feed to just send you actual people you know
          and not... well, the slop trough.
       
          BorisMelnik wrote 1 day ago:
          came here to say this also...also on mobile there is a feed that only
          shows your friends, no "algo." my parents are both on FB and pretty
          much only interact with their freinds. it is quit beautiful.
       
          troupo wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't use Facebook much, and my feed is filled with algorithmic
          bullshit and almost no posts from friends, family, or groups I'm a
          part of.
       
          firesteelrain wrote 1 day ago:
          If it wasn’t for groups, events, and marketplace, I wouldn’t use
          FB.
          
          Marketplace has supplanted Craigslist near me.
          
          Events - no good replacement. Meetup isn’t as ubiquitous.
          
          Groups - nothing as good except maybe groups.io. But, that doesn’t
          have the same common folk. It’s still more niche.
          
          It could be that middle America is catching up where big city America
          has moved on. And maybe that’s the demographic that FB is serving
          now.
       
          nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
          I have a Facebook friend similar to your mother. A solicitor (so
          makes a lot of money), off travelling to beautiful places much of the
          time.
          
          However, there is an element of one upmanship about social media. You
          see pictures of nice holidays abroad, nice cars and happy families...
          And then you find out some of the same folk are about to divorce or
          go bankrupt.
          
          The algo keeps showing me one person's feed but not others. I don't
          mind said person, but we are not close. Facebook tells me about
          birthdays, bereavements etc often two or three weeks after they
          happen which is no good.
       
          vanjajaja1 wrote 1 day ago:
          a common complaint about instagram is that you can no longer see your
          friends, just creators. i assume creators don't have this problem
          though, since they're having fun seeing all their creator friends
       
          scotty79 wrote 1 day ago:
          At one point I subscribed to groups on Satisfactory, Factorio and
          RimWorld and while I don't play much anymore it's always nice to see
          posts on my feed made by people engaged with these games.
          
          When algorithm doesn't have a handle on you it puts you at the bottom
          of the barrel that's filled with slop.
          
          I think the problem is Meta doesn't moderate algorithm enough so a
          lot of users have terrible experience becausd they don't moderate
          their feeds themselves.
          
          Most people are not self-aware enough to decide that maybe political
          rants is not the healthiest content to consume. And even if they do,
          tools for moderation are not easily accessible enough. There should
          be a huge "Yeah, I hated that." button on each post.
       
          Sharlin wrote 1 day ago:
          My FB experience is still fine after all these years. I can't find
          anything in my feed that isn't either a post a) to a group I'm in, b)
          by a page I follow, or c) by a friend. These days, a) and b) make up
          the majority of posts – many of the groups have no equivalent
          elsewhere and are a major reason why I still use FB. Even the
          reels/shorts/whatever that FB suggests are mostly nice and relevant
          – cats, trains, music. No slop, no thirst traps, no politics beyond
          what I choose to follow, not even ads because those are blocked.
          
          Honestly, I've been wondering what other relevant social media there
          even is for someone like me, an early 40s millennial. Twitter I
          refuse to use, and nobody's on Bluesky. Instagram is… fine, I
          guess, and more lively and "feel-good" in some sense, and also used
          by the younger folk, but there's less "engagement" beyond liking
          something and scrolling on. On Facebook comments and actual
          conversation are in a much bigger role, at least for me. Reddit is
          great, assuming you curate your subreddits, but I don't have friends
          there.
       
            nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
            I think you are very lucky. I get constant political messaging (not
            from one side of the room either) which is very unsubtle and
            biased. I get a lot of slop suggested.
            
            I have never used Instagram and don't plan too. Twitter has always
            been a disaster and a mob mentality, and now it barely shows me
            stuff I want to look at.
       
              Sharlin wrote 1 day ago:
              I wonder if the politics issue is just much worse in certain
              parts of the world. Nobody bothers to spend money trying to
              influence the population of a small Nordic country.
              
              As an experiment, I disabled Ghostery and uBlock, and the feed
              became about 33% ads, which is rather annoying, but the ads were
              mostly fine. There was one obvious AI slop image advertising a
              dating site, and one cryptobro ad, but otherwise they were fairly
              reasonable, relatively speaking.
       
          harel wrote 1 day ago:
          That's almost me. I've always used Facebook as a tool to keep in
          touch with friends around the world. My friend list is 95% people I
          know in real life. A small fraction of them still posts. I also get a
          lot of slop in between. The filler posts. I am waiting for a Facebook
          resurgence or a Friendster comeback.
       
          shevy-java wrote 1 day ago:
          Right. But who fits into that niche? I in general prefer privacy so I
          don't share fotos of whenever I take a du.. I mean do something
          semi-interesting to a grand selection of three or four other people
          out there (or more; but these are already reallife associations).
          Remote "relationships" rarely work in my experience, excluding a few
          that are important. But I don't see how that is any business of
          CIAbook to keep track of.
       
          DeathArrow wrote 1 day ago:
          I live in an European country where Facebook is used often and I can
          say I have my wall mostly filled with posts from people that interest
          me and that I interact with.
       
          KPGv2 wrote 1 day ago:
          For the longest time, that was my feed, well after most Millennials
          had moved on. It was spectacular.
          
          But I finally decided I didn't want to doom scroll so much, and when
          I changed phones, I declined to install the app on my new one, and I
          logged out on my laptop.
          
          So I almost never am on anymore, and it's always complete trash.
          Zuck's Trump turn helped the inertia, and now with the revelations
          that he was trying to party with Epstein how can I even log in
          anymore?
          
          I think I'm going to reach out to the people who matter and get their
          email addresses, then hang my FB shoes up for good, twenty-one years
          after I joined.
       
          drnick1 wrote 1 day ago:
          The privacy cost of Facebook is too high. Even if you have "nothing
          to hide" today, sooner or later you will post something you wish you
          had not posted, or someone else will do it for you. Once data about
          you is out there, it is impossible to remove, and the only recourse
          is to wait for that information to become irrelevant or outdated (if
          ever). For example, some employers have been known to spy on their
          employees through Facebook. Others have been harmed when searching
          for jobs because of things they posted on FB or other antisocial
          media, often long ago.
          
          Facebook should not have multiple high quality photos of 1/2 of the
          planet, their children, pets, friends and family, in addition to
          their real-time location obtained through the spyware companion app.
          Not even governments used to have this kind of insight into people's
          lives not so long ago, and it is certainly very alarming that a
          spyware/adtech firm now does.
       
            randomNumber7 wrote 1 day ago:
            > Facebook should not have multiple high quality photos of 1/2 of
            the planet, their children, pets, friends and family, in addition
            to their real-time location obtained through the spyware companion
            app.
            
            If adults decide to give them all this information aren't they the
            ones that should be blamed?
       
              alex1138 wrote 1 day ago:
              Facebook automatically tags people in photos
       
              defrost wrote 1 day ago:
              Perhaps, for the individual photos that each uploaded in
              ignorance of the bigger picture.
              
              But not for the aggregate warehousing, abuse of data, addiction
              maximising algorithmic design, insecurity, etc.
              
              That's all on Facebook and other similar mass scale "social'
              media behemoths.
       
          wolvoleo wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook was this to me. Because I lived in many countries. Just
          seeing what my friends in other countries were experiencing <3
          
          But they blocked the old timeline where I could just see the updates
          from everyone I follow and nothing else. And replaced it with this
          feed with stupid influencer crap. Now I had to weed through all the
          shit to see what the people I care about were doing. It wasn't worth
          it for me so I left soon after, like a decade ago.
          
          Maybe they've rolled some of the crap back but it's too little too
          late for me.
       
          harrall wrote 1 day ago:
          People say the same about Instagram but my feed is like all about
          making clothes, welding, construction stuff, funny memes,
          snowboarding, etc. It’s all good stuff.
          
          I just don’t interact with political content on social media —
          not because I’m apolitical but I don’t want to hear random
          people’s takes on matters.
       
          suzzer99 wrote 1 day ago:
          I have my Facebook feed curated enough that it shows me reels I like
          (landslides, dance-offs, kids or animals doing cute things - nothing
          salacious). Of course, AI crap filters in, but a majority are still
          good.
          
          Even the sponsored posts are very often interesting summaries of
          historical events or scientific wonders. They're AI most of the time,
          which goes on and on. So I read the first part and then go to
          wikipedia if I'm more interested.
          
          I'm also in a bunch of private groups that are spam-free. Some
          travel-related groups have turned out to be invaluable resources.
          
          So it does work if you train it on what you like.
       
          rconti wrote 1 day ago:
          I always really enjoyed Facebook -- much more so than any other
          social media network. It was all friends, friends' content, and
          groups I was interested in and cared about. Sure it had ads, and a
          bit of suggested stuff, but mostly it was interesting content, no
          ragebait, no politics.
          
          But as those friends use it less and less, I use it less and less.
          And the less I use it, the more "suggested" crap I get. If I don't
          use it for a week, the site is absolute garbage.
       
            pants2 wrote 1 day ago:
            To think I used to log in to Facebook every day, scroll friends'
            posts until it said "You're caught up!" then leave.
            
            That's almost unimaginable now, but I deeply wish I could return to
            that experience. Unfortunately as the suggested content got turned
            up, friends stopped posting, so even with all the browser
            extensions in the world I can't get that same experience back.
       
              rconti wrote 23 hours 13 min ago:
              Yup. And unfortunately, I realized I've benefitted from the algo
              too. I tried the friends feed, and I ended up with MORE politics!
       
          keyle wrote 1 day ago:
          And yet, every 3-4 posts, Facebook will start interjecting posts that
          are outrageous, meant to create response. If she interacts with any
          of those, e.g. even open it wide, or stay on it a long time, BAM,
          more of those posts next visits.
          
          And the cycle continues and grinds your account down to a complete
          hellish nightmare where you hate your city, your local councils etc.
          It's all a rigged platform for creating divide and hate. It drives
          clicks, it drives ads, it drives agendas.
       
            dingaling wrote 1 day ago:
            Nope, I've just opened FB in a tab.  Top posts:
            
            - Chris Hadfield using a fire extinguisher to show how rockets work
            
            - A friend's trip to a gig
            
            - Video of a restored TWA flight engineer training simulator
            
            - Mountain weather for my region tomorrow
            
            - A rare colour photo of a 1930s biplane
       
            SpicyLemonZest wrote 1 day ago:
            I don't think that's true. I just scrolled my feed really quick,
            and I had to get 23 posts down before I got an even mildly
            controversial post. The post wasn't even anything mean, it was a
            screenshot of an analysis showing that the richest Americans and
            the Americans who donate the most money don't overlap as much as
            you might think.
       
          whyenot wrote 1 day ago:
          As a middle aged (gen x) woman, my facebook feed is pretty good. It's
          filled with posts from friends and interest groups that I am a part
          of. The reason I no longer use FB has nothing to do with the feed,
          it's because Mark Zuckerberg is an awful person, and I refuse to use
          his product. The cognitive dissonance is great here, because I still
          use WhatsApp; it's the best way to stay in contact with my relatives
          in Europe, and I still use IG, albeit mostly for work, and sparingly.
       
            DeathArrow wrote 1 day ago:
            My Facebook feed is great, my X feed is great. I don't use Facebook
            and X because I like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk but because I
            genuinely read interesting things and I interact with people I
            like.
            
            That being said, I don't spend too much time on social networks
            because I have lots of other things to do.
       
            dboreham wrote 1 day ago:
            I'm still a FB user even though most friends and relatives have
            disengaged due to toxicity. But what I've noticed consistently is
            that any group on FB that has more than 1000 members will end up
            surfacing so much toxic sentiment that I have to unsubstantiated.
            I'm talking about innocuous fields such as the local road
            conditions. That one became full of rants about out of state
            drivers, drivers who don't understand English, people posting
            license plates of bad drivers, etc. This has led me to a theory
            that humans just can't behave nicely beyond some threshold group
            size.
       
              graemep wrote 7 hours 59 min ago:
              > But what I've noticed consistently is that any group on FB that
              has more than 1000 members will end up surfacing so much toxic
              sentiment that I have to unsubstantiated.
              
              It depends on the group and how well it is moderated.
              
              I live in an area where everything depends on Facebook. There are
              multiple FB groups for the town, the largest of which has 80k
              members. Not perfect, but not toxic. The same in other similar
              groups.
              
              I am an admin of another with 30k members. It has a tight focus
              (exams and qualifications for home ed kids in the UK -
              GCSEs/IGCSEs mostly, but other things too), membership is only
              for parents of such kids (there are membership questions), the
              group is private, posts require approval, irrelevant comments get
              deleted, repeat offenders get kicked out. We do not have a lot of
              problems (some attempts at spam by tutors, but they get kicked
              out).
       
              derefr wrote 21 hours 43 min ago:
              > This has led me to a theory that humans just can't behave
              nicely beyond some threshold group size.
              
              I think you're generalizing far too broadly. The problem you're
              describing is more-or-less exclusively a problem with online,
              open-membership groups.
              
              Consider: if the groups you describe were in-person groups, these
              ranters would constantly be getting disengaged/off-put/disgusted
              reactions from the "silent majority" of the people in the group.
              And just these reactions — together with a lack of any positive
              engagement — would, almost always, be enough to make them stop
              or go somewhere else.
              
              (Or, to put a finer point on that: "annoyed, judgemental silence,
              and then turning away / back to the person you were talking to"
              would always put off the vast majority of people, with just a few
              — people who have trouble understanding non-verbal signals —
              persisting because they aren't "getting the message." And in an
              in-person context, these few would still eventually be taken
              aside and given a talking-to, because if they're butting into
              other in-person conversations with this behavior, they're being
              far more disruptive than "random new conversation threads" tend
              to be felt as. Even though "random new conversation threads" can
              kill a group just as dead.)
              
              The problem with decorum / respect-for-purpose in unmoderated
              online open-membership groups seems to mostly stem from the fact
              that people underestimate the importance of non-verbal signals in
              moderating/regulating behavior. And so there is a dearth of such
              signals available in such groups. Our brains didn't evolve to
              play the game of socializing without these signals, any more than
              ants evolved to coordinate without pheremones. So many people's
              brains begin to play the game in degenerate / anti-social ways.
              
              From what I've been able to gather, from personal interactions
              with many people who admit to being "Internet trolls" at some
              point in their lives... their behavior was almost never
              intentional maliciousness/active-disregard-for-others on their
              part. It's rather an emergent behavior — something they "just
              ended up doing" — given a lack of (non-verbal-signal-alike)
              calibrating feedback.
              
              And why is there so little non-verbal-signal-alike communication
              online?
              
              Well, for one thing, we often aren't even aware we're giving off
              such signals; and so, if we need to consciously choose to
              communicate them (as we do in online contexts), then we simply
              fail to do so, because the majority of these signals never even
              rise to our conscious attention as something to be communicated.
              
              And even when we do become aware of them, we often don't feel
              them to be important enough to be "worth" going to the effort of
              translating into some more conscious/explicit/non-subtextual form
              of communication.
              
              And then, even when a strong desire to communicate a nonverbal
              signal does bubble up within us... most online chat/forum systems
              are horrible at transmitting such signals with any degree of
              fidelity, when they transmit them at all. Especially the kinds of
              signals used for intra-group behavior regulation.
              
              Facebook, for example, has reaction emojis on both posts and
              comments — but no reaction emoji that transmits a sentiment
              like "I disapprove of you saying this; please stop" (e.g. U+1F611
              EXPRESSIONLESS FACE or U+1FAE4 FACE WITH DIAGONAL MOUTH). Rather,
              the only reaction emoji available are those meant to react
              sympathetically to the emotive content of the post/comment —
              e.g. with anger, sadness, etc. (People do try to use the "anger"
              reaction to express disapproval of posts; but when the content
              itself is often "ragebait" / meant to evoke anger, the poster
              won't necessarily understand that these reactions are being
              directed at them, rather than at their post.)
              
              Further, no chat system or forum I'm aware of has
              participant-visible signals of "detach rate" — i.e. there's no
              way for people to know when others are clicking on their posts,
              reading one line, doing a 180 and running away as fast as they
              can. (YouTube videos expose this metric to their creators; I
              think it's actually very helpful for them. It could do with being
              implemented far more widely.)
              
              (And, to be a conspiracy theorist for a moment: I think, in both
              cases, this is probably intentional. The explicit purpose of
              signals that "regulate behavior", after all, is to make people
              engage less in certain anti-social behaviors. Making available
              any such tools, will therefore inevitably make any kind of
              platform-aggregate "engagement metrics" go down! If they were
              ever temporarily introduced, they'd have been quickly removed
              again with this justification.)
       
                graemep wrote 7 hours 47 min ago:
                Great analysis. I do not think its conspiracy theorist to
                believe it to be intentional, or at least a result of KPIs.
                
                One thing I think you are missing is that in person groups are
                usually far smaller. Anything with 1,000 people would be
                organised and there would be rules of behaviour, moderation of
                discussion etc. Most often if something is that big, its mostly
                an audience.
                
                I think the other thing that happens in real life groups is
                that there is no community or real relationships. If you annoy
                people in real life it has consequences. In an FB group there
                are none.
       
              veunes wrote 22 hours 43 min ago:
              Once a group gets big enough...
       
              rightbyte wrote 1 day ago:
              > This has led me to a theory that humans just can't behave
              nicely beyond some threshold group size.
              
              I think what happens is that the risk of including a critical
              amount of "toxics" (lacking a better word) such that they can
              keep a conversation going, increases by FB group size. Without
              actice moderators it doesn't take much.
       
                stuaxo wrote 6 hours 56 min ago:
                The Dunbar number is 150 for humans but that only measures
                maintaining a group, maybe the behave nicely number is smaller.
       
              cyberge99 wrote 1 day ago:
              I think after a certain group size people feel immune or that
              their alternative thought might have a better chance of landing
              with someone.
       
          pavlov wrote 1 day ago:
          My Facebook is honestly nice, it’s the most relaxing social media
          for me.
          
          The promoted posts are books and artists and occasional gym content.
          Ads are relevant or at least not annoying (SuitSupply seems to think
          I’m their ideal customer, and I don’t mind looking at their
          handsome models in this season’s knitwear). The people I know post
          mostly about meaningful or harmless stuff.
          
          But it’s probably like this because I joined over ten years after
          everyone else did. I didn’t activate my Facebook account until 2018
          when I got a job at FB and it was mandatory. Then I found out that it
          was actually a good way to curate a set of people from my youth that
          I genuinely wanted to reconnect with.
          
          That’s probably what made the difference compared to many whose FB
          social graphs were built up early and never pruned.
       
            actionfromafar wrote 1 day ago:
            I laughed out loud. "I found that I loved Big Brother from my
            youth." Genuinely no offense meant, it was just funny.
       
            jcgrillo wrote 1 day ago:
            Wow they make you use facebook at facebook? That's twisted. That
            would be like.. idk.. Phillip Morris making you smoke a pack a day.
       
              wedog6 wrote 1 day ago:
              I believe it was somewhat like that at large cigarette companies
              in the heyday of smoking.
              
              An ashtray on every desk and throughout meeting rooms. Free packs
              of cigarettes you could grab anywhere in the building + a certain
              number of packs given to you weekly, with your preferred brand
              recorded. Some amount of social compulsion to smoke at work and
              during work related social events.
       
                codethief wrote 1 day ago:
                I hear it still largely is that way, though apparently they do
                try to avoid smoking in the presence of their pregnant
                coworkers these days. Progress! :-)
       
          wvenable wrote 1 day ago:
          My Facebook feed (I visit just for marketplace) is also not quite
          like the author's feed.  I don't have a lot of AI content or thirst
          traps.    I wonder if he's got some sort of the default young male
          algorithm experience.
          
          I wouldn't say my Facebook is good -- I don't interact with it enough
          for it to be anything.
       
          creddit wrote 1 day ago:
          Yeah I just logged in to see if it was really this bad an all I got
          were:
          
          (1) extremely, impressively relevant ads.
          (2) posts from people I know that were mostly nice except for my
          uncle who seemed to be posting nonsense.
       
          duxup wrote 1 day ago:
          I logged out of facebook years ago only to find out an old friend /
          former coworker had died.   Everyone knew, because of facebook, but
          not me :(
          
          It’s certainly the social hub for some groups.
       
            npodbielski wrote 1 day ago:
            People with those kind of arguments always get from response that
            if you were not trying to keep in touch with this friend personally
            then it was not truly a friend. Facebook friends does not equal
            real life friend.
       
              iteria wrote 1 day ago:
              I literally didn't learn that my own grandmother(I guess great
              aunt) had died until I happen to return home on the day the
              funeral was occurring. Everyone just assumed I knew because of
              Facebook and was there because of Facebook.
              
              Sometimes it's not about closeness. It's about people's
              expectations about how to communicate. My cousin was in no place
              to do anything but post to Facebook and then collapse. My sister
              helped him, but didn't think to tell me because you know
              Facebook. I live 4 hours away so I wouldn't have learned by
              osmosis.
              
              I have several stories of learning about deaths in the family way
              after the fact because my family is chronically on Facebook and
              I'm not. They all live in my hometown and it just doesn't occur
              to them to actually communicate with members like me who don't
              live there.
              
              This is basically why I haven't deleted my Facebook even if I
              don't often log in.
       
                npodbielski wrote 12 hours 38 min ago:
                I am sorry that it happened to you. Maybe I think that I have a
                solution because my wife tells me everything worth while from
                FB as the frequent user. Or maybe it is because I am not there
                at all which forces people to notify me directly by other means
                if necessary. Which is a problem for them but it is much a
                problem for me to keep in touch. So maybe if they feel some
                kind of symmetry in this it is fair to do it anyway to keep in
                touch?
                Anyway it is not like it is not solvable problem. People just
                do what they do because it is easier. Take that away and they
                will find another means.
       
          SecretDreams wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook used to be like this when it was only for college students.
          That was the last time Facebook was good.
       
          tgma wrote 1 day ago:
          Could it be that the problem is users’ own interest in being
          outraged? A reflection of their mental state and anxiety that they
          then project to Facebook as if that’s the root cause.
       
          cyanydeez wrote 1 day ago:
          The skeptical observer would suggest because her demograph votes,
          serving ads which benefit Facebook shareholders is good for business.
       
          dawnerd wrote 1 day ago:
          I only use it for cruise groups and it’s been useful but once you
          scroll the main feed it’s baaad. Slop after slop. And what isn’t
          slop is rage bait short form content or bad takes or stolen videos
          from the vine days it feels.
       
          newsclues wrote 1 day ago:
          You keep the content creators happy.
       
          Aurornis wrote 1 day ago:
          This is how my parents' Facebook feeds look, too. And my wife's. And
          my friends who still use it.
          
          I log in a couple times per year and see the same thing. It's nice to
          catch up with the friends who still use it.
          
          One thing I've noticed over the years on HN is that many of the
          people talking confidently about Facebook also start their posts with
          "I'm glad I deleted my Facebook account 8 years ago, but..." and then
          go on to describe what they imagine Facebook is like for everyone
          else, as pieced together through the type of sensational headlines
          that hit the Hacker News front page every day.
          
          There's another failure mode where someone tries to use Facebook but
          doesn't have any active friends on the site. They might scroll past
          photos from friends and family to click on ragebait links or engage
          with someone debating politics because they can't resist an internet
          argument. The algorithm takes note that this is what they engage with
          and gives them more of it, while showing less of the content they're
          scrolling past. Then they wonder why their feeds are full of topics
          that make them angry.
          
          There's even an explicit feature to tell the algorithm what you want
          to see less of: You click the three dots and click "Hide post". They
          even have useful tools to unfollow people without unfriending them,
          which is highly useful for those people can't politely disconnect
          from but whose content you don't want to see. Using these tools even
          a little bit goes a long way to cleaning up your feed.
          
          Meanwhile, people like my parents and extended family treat Facebook
          like a friendly gathering where everyone knows discussions of
          politics and religion are off the table. They click "Like" on things
          they want to see more of. They leave nice comments under photos of
          their friends and family. Their feeds adapt and give them what they
          want.
       
            nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
            I did delete a previous Facebook account, but got forced back into
            it due to work. I don't really use it for friends much now. It is
            much better as a result although I still see it trying to pull me
            one direction or another. I would happily delete the entire lot
            because I don't find it functional.
            
            "There's even an explicit feature to tell the algorithm what you
            want to see less of: You click the three dots and click "Hide
            post". They even have useful tools to unfollow people without
            unfriending them, which is highly useful for those people can't
            politely disconnect from but whose content you don't want to see.
            Using these tools even a little bit goes a long way to cleaning up
            your feed."
            
            I've really never liked that feature. It is what creates echo
            chambers, because you just get infinite agreemtn. For some reason,
            Faecebook only tends to show me one individual's posts over others.
            We're not unfriendly but not good mates. On the other hand thanks
            to the features you seem to be talking about, I get to hear about
            bereavements, birthdays, engagements etc days or weeks after they
            happened which is no use to me.
       
          pyreko wrote 1 day ago:
          I have this with Twitter surprisingly.
          
          I only use it for animal pictures, art, and to follow artists. I
          usually just use the Following page, but my FYP is always just...
          animal pictures and art, exactly what I want. No weird right wing
          shit, no weird crypto shit, no drama or ragebait shit, etc...
          somehow.
          
          I know some day it'll break though.
       
            suzzer99 wrote 1 day ago:
            For twitter I have a sports list that I stick to 99% of the time. A
            little politics filters through, but I've found that to be just the
            right amount.
            
            When major events happen, I switch over to my full feed, where I
            follow a bunch of political posters, and go into a blind rage in
            minutes.
       
            xeonmc wrote 1 day ago:
            > my FYP is always just... animal pictures and art, exactly what I
            want.
            
            On Bluesky your feed will also have animal pictures and art, just
            not the kind you wanted.
       
            numpad0 wrote 1 day ago:
            Same. It feels like the real trick is to get platforms to think
            you're some kind of important person that could hurt the platform
            if served too much ragebaits.
            
            And it also feels like they're compelled to maximize ragebaits for
            some reason - maybe the Web2 is running out of "advertiser
            friendly" contents.
       
            raincole wrote 1 day ago:
            I have an account to follow artists on X. Surprisingly, it never
            pushes even one single blatant AI artist to my feed (not saying I'm
            an expert to recognize AI-generate artworks, but I've done digital
            painting as a side gig and.) There might be some paintover or more
            subtle ones that eluded my radar, but I've never seen the typical
            AI styles on my timeline.
            
            However, if you check posts remotely related to the US politics the
            reply section is out of control.
            
            I honestly believe out of Reddit, Facebook, Bsky and X, X is the
            one with the most reasonable timeline algorithm[0]. Reddit and
            Facebook are unusable except for very specific reasons (asking
            questions in certain apps' subs/groups). Most people I know irl
            moved to instagram though.
            
            [0]: Bsky is the worst, but interestingly if you use a third-party
            feed like 'For You' it's on par with X, just less traffic.
       
              cleaning wrote 1 day ago:
              Why do you call it X?
       
            Aurornis wrote 1 day ago:
            Same here. The trick is to unfollow people who start posting things
            you don't want to see in your feed any more. It sounds so simple,
            but many people treat their following list as an append-only log.
            
            I've followed accounts for hobbies that later spiral off into the
            deep end of Twitter's topics of the day, which is always my sign to
            unfollow them.
            
            Some people cannot resist clicking on things that make them angry,
            though. These websites continue serving up more of what you click
            on.
       
              magicalist wrote 1 day ago:
              > Some people cannot resist clicking on things that make them
              angry, though. These websites continue serving up more of what
              you click on.
              
              "We're going to keep putting crap in front of you until we find
              something you click on. And even if you take a breath, don't
              reply and close it, we now know we have you and we'll keep
              showing that type of thing to you. Also, even though we're not
              going to tell you we're doing this, we and our power users are
              going to blame you for doing it to yourself. lol."
       
          curious_af wrote 1 day ago:
          International flight attendant.
          So the algorithms for people that travel internationally a lot are
          drastically different from the people who remain stationary.
          If Facebook wanted to prevent themselves from negative publicity,
          they might have a different experience for the people who have
          political power (international travel might be the best proxy for
          that)
          
          What you're referring to may also be part of their XCheck program
          which came to light back in 2021
       
            duskwuff wrote 1 day ago:
            I have a feeling it might be less "avoid negative publicity"; more
            "give a premium experience to influencers" (for a broad definition
            of that term).
            
            A user - like mbo's mother - who posts a lot of content which
            generates a lot of reposts and other positive interactions is
            basically a gold mine for Facebook. It's in their interest to treat
            that user with kid gloves to get them to keep posting, even if it
            means foregoing some revenue opportunities.
       
            nindalf wrote 1 day ago:
            The XCheck program has nothing to do with anything you’re
            thinking of. You read some old misinformation and didn’t read the
            post debunking the misinformation.
            
            Source: me.
            
  HTML      [1]: https://nindalf.com/posts/xcheck/
       
            underlipton wrote 1 day ago:
            I've been convinced for some time that access to some resource
            component that determines the quality of search/AI results is
            divvied up likewise. Why waste resources on users who have no
            audience or influence? If they're frustrated, who cares? Instead,
            identify the people who people already listen to, and make sure
            their experience with the platform is optimal. Even if the service
            is horrible for the vast majority of users, the gatekeepers and
            tastemakers will insist that they're just imagining things.
       
            0x457 wrote 1 day ago:
            Could it be due to someone actually using facebook so algorithm
            works in their favor. When I worked in REDACTED when you not
            frequent user you'd get generic "what is popular for everyone" feed
            because empty-feed = bad-feed.
       
            bko wrote 1 day ago:
            I think you're overthinking it. She probably just has a lot of real
            people connections and drives the algo to meaningful interactions.
            When a ghost logs in, they don't know what to show so default to
            "general" spam which is just AI generated woman.
       
              blitzar wrote 1 day ago:
              > When a ghost logs in ... so default to "general"
              
              I do this with youtube - and I get to see what is broadly
              popular.
              
              It is grim.
       
              kryogen1c wrote 1 day ago:
              Lol! "Facebook's not bad, you're just a loser"
       
              the_af wrote 1 day ago:
              This is very likely.
              
              It reminds me of people who browse YouTube logged off: they see
              garbage, spam, rage bait, and sexy girls doing sexy stuff.
              
              But I browse logged in and my carefully curated subscriptions
              mean I mostly get good quality, relevant recommendations, and
              almost zero rage bait or outrageous stuff.
       
              twelvedogs wrote 1 day ago:
              The algorithm is not optimised for meaningful interactions, even
              10 years ago i couldn't get it to even mostly show friends and
              family after fighting it for a week
       
                HDThoreaun wrote 1 day ago:
                The algorithm is optimized to show you content you tend to
                engage with. You couldnt get it to show you meaningful
                interaction because you didnt engage with it.
       
                blobbers wrote 1 day ago:
                Do your friends and family interact on facebook? Could run an
                experiment to see if it adapts.
       
            Aurornis wrote 1 day ago:
            > So the algorithms for people that travel internationally a lot
            are drastically different from the people who remain stationary.
            
            I can confirm the same experience as the parent commenter for my
            family who still use Facebook even though most of them don't travel
            internationally.
            
            > If Facebook wanted to prevent themselves from negative publicity,
            they might have a different experience for the people who have
            political power (international travel might be the best proxy for
            that)
            
            I think the much simpler explanation is more likely: People who use
            Facebook for engaging with friends and family content will see more
            friends and family content. I don't think this is Facebook playing
            4D chess trying to hide content from politicians by detecting who
            is traveling internationally. I mean, if Facebook did want to have
            a separate algorithm for politicians, don't you think they could
            come up with something better than triggering on international
            travel?
       
              michaelt wrote 1 day ago:
              > I don't think this is Facebook playing 4D chess trying to hide
              content from politicians by detecting who is traveling
              internationally.
              
              I agree the triggering criteria isn't international travel - but
              giving VIP treatment to VIPs isn't "4D chess" it's just business
              as usual.
              
              You get elected to congress? The moment the list of winners comes
              out, someone from Comcast finds the accounts and marks them as
              VIPs. Someone at Uber does the same. Someone at Amazon does the
              same, and so on.
              
              Typically this will limit who in Customer Services can view the
              addresses on your account and reset your password. But it can
              also mean you get free upgrades, put you at the front of the
              queue, assign your orders to highly-rated workers, etc - or for
              social media, a curated experience making the site look classy
              and enriching.
       
              fragmede wrote 1 day ago:
              it's Facebook, and we've got AI. The "algorithm" is easily just a
              list of names to match, if they we're going to do that.
       
              mayneack wrote 1 day ago:
              I'd be shocked if international travel was the algorithmic tell,
              but in the book Careless People, the author discusses extensively
              that they (Facebook's political team) did a lot of manually
              curating the experience for politicians across the world to help
              push for Facebook's side in whatever issue was important on a
              given day.
              
  HTML        [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Careless_People
       
              AlienRobot wrote 1 day ago:
              It would be very ironic if the reason people complain about
              Facebook so ardently is that they just didn't have enough friends
              IRL in first place to make Facebook work the way it should.
       
                npodbielski wrote 1 day ago:
                So you are saying that it is authors fault? How about not
                showing you shit instead when there is nothing else to show?
                
                It is like saying that in order to keep my e-mail inbox full
                and entertaining from now on your email provider will fill it
                with AI generated content. Madness.
       
                Aurornis wrote 1 day ago:
                I have one circle of friends who are barely online at all.
                Their phones exist for minimal e-mails and texts and that's it.
                A couple don't even have a dedicated internet connection at
                home. Their experience on Facebook wouldn't be good either.
                
                I do agree with your general sentiment, though: Many complaints
                about Facebook come from people who don't want to invest time
                into finding their friends online and engaging with friend
                content. They log in, see what the article sees, assume that's
                all there is, and abandon it. Most people just move on, but a
                few will complain about Facebook based on their limited
                experience from 10 years ago.
       
                xethos wrote 1 day ago:
                I'd amend that as "didn't have enough [IRL] friends *on
                FaceBook* in first place", but that starts off a conversation
                about platforms being only-technically not required socially,
                network effects, etc.
       
              afavour wrote 1 day ago:
              I do think it’s that but with a dangerous slippery slope
              embedded within. FB will optimize for engagement no matter what
              so if you linger on one political post they put among 99 friends
              and family posts they’ll immediately amp up the ratio. You need
              to somehow maintain a perfect ratio of time spent on FB to fresh
              family and friends content, otherwise FB will fill the space for
              you.
              
              My mother in law is an example of this. She’s always been
              “mildly” political, e.g. she liked Planned Parenthood’s FB
              page. Now her feed is a mess of anti-Trump stuff. I’m
              anti-Trump myself but a lot of these posts are barely coherent
              and she’s mentioned before now when she meets someone new her
              first thought is whether they voted for Trump or not. To my mind
              it’s a direct result of her slipping down that slope. She
              frequently has interactions (“fights” is too strong really)
              with friends and neighbors on her feed who are clearly off piste
              in the other political direction.
              
              I even had an example of it on my own profile. For some reason I
              had a post from a local (NY) radio station in my feed, about
              Mamdani. Curious to click into the comments I saw a cesspit of
              vitriol by boomer age users, attached to their real names,
              sometimes with smiling photos with their grandchildren… for
              weeks after whenever I logged in there would be a new post by a
              different conservative leaning radio station, ready to make me
              angry. Engagement > user happiness.
       
                Throaway1982 wrote 1 day ago:
                FB Marketplace makes you click on ads in order to tell the
                platform that you dont want to see that kind of listing
                anymore.
                
                Unfortunately, clicking on the ad alerts the algorithm, which
                then shows you MORE of that type of ad that if you had not
                clicked at all.
       
          krn1p4n1c wrote 1 day ago:
          My feed is like this too. I rarely use FB now, but I’ve
          aggressively pruned and blocked anything that becomes political or
          negative.
       
            fullstop wrote 1 day ago:
            I unfollowed everyone except for a few family members.    It really
            wants to give you the infinite scroll and started showing me some
            really bizarre stuff.  So much AI slop, and random content.
            
            For about a week it kept showing me nursing mothers, no matter how
            many times I said "I don't want to see this" and blocking.  I have
            no problem with women nursing, but these were done in a way to be
            sexually provocative.
            
            After that it started showing me AI houses and kitchens, with
            kitchen taps but no sink basin.
            
            I just gave up at that point.
       
              ricardobayes wrote 9 hours 2 min ago:
              I remember at some point which I think was a bug: it started
              showing a specific type of food, I think some kind of barbeque,
              prepared in various ways from across the globe. And by "started
              showing" I mean the feed was pretty much that for an extended
              period of time. Also at some point a large part of the feed was
              reposts of random reddit posts in screenshot format.
       
              aembleton wrote 1 day ago:
              I can recommend using Social Fixer addon [1] on your laptop.  On
              my phone, I use Nobook [2] which isn't quite as effective.  They
              both do a good job though of removing loads of the useless stuff
              on Facebook.
              
              1. [1] 2.
              
  HTML        [1]: https://socialfixer.com/
  HTML        [2]: https://github.com/ycngmn/Nobook
       
                Fogest wrote 16 hours 53 min ago:
                Thanks for the suggestion, I just installed the socialfixer
                userscript and am going to give it a try. I now just need to
                start telling Facebook I'm not interested everytime I see an AI
                post and hope it eventually gets better.
       
              al_borland wrote 1 day ago:
              I made a Facebook account a few years ago for a private group
              related to a class I was taking. I didn't want to do this, but it
              is what it is.
              
              Being paranoid, I ran a VM just for Facebook. The browser never
              went to any other sites, so as far as I know there is no way it
              could track me or get any actual information about me, other than
              maybe a very rough location based on my IP. I also setup a burner
              email just for this and used a fake name/picture.
              
              On a fresh account with no info, my feed was much like that of
              the linked article. A bunch of thirst traps and various "news"
              and memes. Occasionally it would tell me to follow stuff so it
              could actually populate the feed, but when it wasn't doing that,
              it was giving me this kind of garbage. This was before the advent
              of generative AI, so I assume these were mostly real photos, but
              who knows who was actually behind those accounts.
              
              Twitter was fairly similar, but would show a lot of high school
              kids fighting or general street fights... along side the thirst
              traps.
       
          jasondigitized wrote 1 day ago:
          Was she using the 'Friends' tab?  Anything else is complete trash.
       
            bdangubic wrote 1 day ago:
            This is regular feed. I have another friend that is like OP's Mom,
            basically posts 4-10x per day. her main feed is basically just her
            and her friend's stuff, comments etc etc (few ads here and there of
            course but basically her feed looks like OG Facebook)
       
          moduspol wrote 1 day ago:
          They should offer that privilege to the rest of us for a few bucks a
          month. I'd probably pay.
       
            Aurornis wrote 1 day ago:
            You don't need to pay anything. That's just how Facebook works when
            you have active friends on it and you engage with their content.
            
            I do find it interesting that tech people are so baffled when other
            people enjoy Facebook and derive value from it. I think we see so
            many exaggerated headlines about algorithms and feeds that people
            who don't use the site have a very different idea of what people
            who do actually use the site are seeing.
       
              CosmicShadow wrote 1 day ago:
              Yet my wife uses it daily and has to keep 16 separate tabs open
              to people and bands she wants updates from because Facebook
              refuses to put them on her feed, despite her commenting on every
              post and story from them; she instead gets all these random
              shitty "suggested" posts from things that she would never have
              interest in or actively hates and FB should know that. She
              constantly mutes and reports shit. I get the same thing, but I
              don't use FB nearly as much. Those same bands have to spam
              repeatedly because despite having tens of thousands of fans they
              show everyone that their posts are only shown to 16 people. It's
              a shit site that maybe works for some folks, but not at all for
              us active or not.
       
                JCattheATM wrote 1 day ago:
                > my wife uses it daily and has to keep 16 separate tabs open
                
                Surely she could just bookmark those pages and check
                periodically, or subscribe to a newsletter or something?
       
                  CosmicShadow wrote 1 day ago:
                  She checks them every time she's on her computer, no point in
                  closing them and they are always posting to social media
                  every day, whereas you may get a generic email once a month
                  if they even have a mailing list. Instagram is admittedly a
                  LOT better at showing what you want than FB, as she follows
                  them all there as well, but sometimes they post different
                  stuff on each. She wants to both support and help these bands
                  and band members by engaging on their socials so they
                  actually get shown to more people. These are metal bands, so
                  not big by any means, although some of them are still "large"
                  or well known in their genres, but still struggle to get any
                  good traction online. Most people in metal bands still have
                  full time jobs, even if they are at the top of their genre
                  (excluding the mega bands people have heard of).
       
            cameldrv wrote 1 day ago:
            The problem is that your friends probably don't post much to
            facebook, and so they'd show you that, and you'd get to the end and
            find something else to do, so they have to bulk it up.    There is a
            "friends" feed that's buried under a couple of menus that does this
            though.
       
              moduspol wrote 1 day ago:
              I wouldn't mind seeing an empty feed that says, "your friends
              didn't post today," or whatever. They have to fill the feed
              because I'm not paying them and they need the engagement.
              
              But if I were paying them, even a little bit, then maybe they
              could. But I didn't know there was a friends-only feed so I'll
              check that out.
       
                wedog6 wrote 1 day ago:
                You wouldn't mind, but Facebook would mind though.
       
                Digit-Al wrote 1 day ago:
                If you are on the mobile app, click on the burger menu and
                select "Feeds". You will then have a page that has tabs at the
                top. "All" will be selected by default, but if you select
                "Friends" you will see only posts from your friends. If you
                have completely caught up it will be empty and will say that
                you have caught up and seen everything your friends have
                posted. There are still ads, but you don't get all the reels,
                and crap posted by people you don't know.
       
                AndrewDucker wrote 1 day ago:
                Go to the "feeds" page and select "friends".
       
          AlexandrB wrote 1 day ago:
          > all the Facebook PMs intended
          
          That's being awfully generous. I think Facebook PMs intend your feed
          to be filled with valuable commercial offers that can be monetized by
          Meta.
       
        InMice wrote 1 day ago:
        You just have to click on "Feeds" then you can filter to friends,
        groups, or pages you follow. That said they have been slowly burying
        where you can click on "feeds" to get there, so I just bookmark them. I
        never look at the main page it's just pure garbage.
        
        I will say facebook ads are the most relevant ads ever for me. I click
        on them all the time because they're actually interesting to me. But at
        the same time all the products/clothing is so expensive I never
        convert.
        
        What I dont like is Alerts becoming just another feed to fill with spam
        and not real notifications.
       
        SamuelAdams wrote 1 day ago:
        This is not unique to Facebook. Reddit has seen a large uptick in
        AI-generated posts, or repeated posts from the past.
        
        I think we need to recognize that social media of 2026 is not the same
        as what we had in 2006. AI generated content, regardless of if it is
        image, video, or text, is here to stay. And it will only get better and
        more convincing as the technology improves.
        
        What people really need to ask is this - what do they want to get out
        of social media? Is it personal relationships and status updates? Is it
        entertainment? Is it something in between?
        
        The harsh truth is most people at this point use social media for
        entertainment, and AI content is entertaining, or at least engaging, to
        most people. Remember that 54% of USA adults read below a 6th grade
        reading level [1]. It is not perfect, but it is convincing enough that
        a large enough number of people are beginning to accept it as "real".
        
        [1] 
        
  HTML  [1]: https://www.nu.edu/blog/49-adult-literacy-statistics-and-facts...
       
          Cthulhu_ wrote 22 hours 10 min ago:
          The reposts and crossposts are popular because while you may have
          seen it before, millions haven't.
          
          I think I'm almost at the point of letting it go already. If AI
          becomes more egregious / apparent, I'm out. I was caught by one
          already - scrolled for too long, came across some manufacturing video
          (I love those), but as it went on it became less and less realistic.
          By the end I was like "huh, TIL robots can make jeans out of banana
          fiber end to end", but that wasn't true.
       
          overgard wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't really think that's how this plays out. Facebook can squeeze
          people a little longer, but if all you want is entertainment other
          options seem better. End of the day Facebook's moat is your network,
          but if it's not useful for keeping up with the people you care about,
          what's special about it? I see a lot of AI generated stuff on
          youtube, but the view counts are pretty low, so I don't think most of
          it is getting much traction (and frankly it's very obvious that it's
          AI just from thumbnails 99% of the time).
       
          Zak wrote 1 day ago:
          It's not about what users want. It's about what's profitable for the
          company.
          
          What I want from Facebook is to see what original words, images, or
          videos my friends and family thought was worth sharing with the world
          today, and I want to see clearly when I've reached the end of that. I
          probably don't need to spend more than ten minutes once a day on
          that.
          
          It's profitable for Facebook to show me as many ads as possible. If I
          wasn't an aggressive adblock user, the thing I want would have much
          less potential profit than all the third-party content they want to
          show me.
       
          jcgrillo wrote 1 day ago:
          It doesn't matter to any of these companies what their users get out
          of it so long as those "dumb fucks[1]" keep coming back to the trough
          and slurping up the slop. Eat your rage bait and like it, piggy. Keep
          that attention economy roaring!
          
  HTML    [1]: https://www.theregister.com/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/
       
          __lain__ wrote 1 day ago:
          The reddit bots are quite nefarious. Even in technical communities
          where no advertisement is happening there are so many posts made by
          bots either recycling old posts or masquerading as humans doing banal
          things like complaining about end users or something. Hundreds of
          bots that do nothing more than pretend to be people complaining about
          work, really curious what the goal of the operators is with these
          ones. Makes me wonder if they are bots supplied by reddit to
          artificially boost engagement.
       
            boelboel wrote 1 day ago:
            Reddit has made it impossible to check the history of accounts this
            past week. They certainly want to make it as difficult as possible
            to see if someone is 'real'.
       
            themafia wrote 1 day ago:
            Points are often presented as a proxy for trustworthiness.  They're
            even implicit on sites like HN where certain features only become
            available once you've crossed a threshold.
            
            It's a bad tool.  I always think of the Bill Bur joke talking about
            Netflix going from 1-5 stars to thumbs up/down.  "It's like.. 
            stubbed my toe..  thumbs down.    Hitler..  thumbs down.    There's too
            big of a gap in 'thumbs down.'"
       
          monero-xmr wrote 1 day ago:
          Reddit is so insufferably political now it's insane. Like why do 3d
          printing subreddits need to stand with (insert leftist outrage of
          Gaza / Israel / Ice / Canada / on and on)
       
            fullshark wrote 23 hours 48 min ago:
            Reddit runs on unpaid labor in the form of moderation, in exchange
            for this unpaid labor mods want to have cultural influence.
       
            thrance wrote 1 day ago:
            Weren't you the one telling us X.com should replace legacy media?
            [1] As a reminder, a glimpse at X's front page a few weeks ago: [2]
            I think it's very telling how you went to Reddit first when
            complaining about politics on social media, one of the only big
            ones that still hasn't been completely invaded by MAGA sycophants.
            Just admit you take no issues with politics on social media, you
            just want them to align with your views.
            
  HTML      [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46891442
  HTML      [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46504404
       
              AlexeyBelov wrote 8 hours 45 min ago:
              You shouldn't expect his position to make sense. "Leftist
              outrage!"
       
            jmye wrote 1 day ago:
            Why do you think? Enragement = engagement. You could generously
            assume that it's users optimizing for posts that get them
            likes/karma/whatever, or ungenerously assume that the platform
            itself is gaming engagement via AI or bots, but the effect is the
            same and it's pervasive. The only out is finding tiny communities
            that are still communities, and praying they don't grow.
            
            Everyone saw the Facebook model and adopted it. It's why Reddit has
            the valuation it does (and why it's still insane to me people
            intentionally use it as a recommendation or information tool).
       
              monero-xmr wrote 1 day ago:
              I actually think it's because reddit is supported by a vast group
              of unpaid labor (moderators) and conspiratorially I believe they
              (actually) get paid by NGOs and governments to push narratives
              and suppress others. Although denied (poorly) it is very likely
              ghislaine maxwell was one of the most powerful moderators of
              reddit, modding hundreds of subreddits including r/worldnews, up
              until the day she was arrested
              
              Last comment June 28, 2020 [1] Arrested July 2 2020 [2] One of
              the most powerful accounts suddenly stops activity, never to
              return
              
  HTML        [1]: https://old.reddit.com/user/maxwellhill/comments/
  HTML        [2]: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ghislaine-maxwell-c...
       
          strangattractor wrote 1 day ago:
          Coining HNs Law
          
          Any mode of communication that depends on advertising for funding
          will over time t monotonically approach total BullShit Grifting as t
          increases.
       
            munificent wrote 1 day ago:
            It already has a name:
            
  HTML      [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
       
        littlekey wrote 1 day ago:
        I agree with the people saying that the product is a lot better once
        you're actively engaging with pages that align with your interests, so
        that the algorithm can feed you better content.
        
        That being said, it's still sad that this is the default new/returning
        user experience. Imagine a world where a new user was met with real
        posts about a variety of interests, rather than a psychic barrage of
        insane AI posts.
       
          ddtaylor wrote 1 day ago:
          I think even for someone who logs in daily and uses it a bit, it
          still shovels weird content and even if you repeatedly skip or don't
          engage with AI slop, you still get a lot of it.
          
          I almost think we are seeing something similar to a CAPTCHA where the
          engagement is being used to tune which videos slip under the uncanny
          valley radar.
       
        MiddleEndian wrote 1 day ago:
        The default experience probably sucks, but I aggressively block
        anything even mildly annoying on my Facebook newsfeed, and I like
        what's left:
        
        Mostly Simpsons memes, Seinfeld memes, Pro Wrestling memes, Sopranos
        memes, and then intersections of those memes (Seinfeld Pro Wrestling,
        Simpsons Pro Wrestling, etc.). Some nerd shit. Stuff from the handful
        of friends of mine and local groups I interact with who still post on
        Facebook. Maybe <1% total garbage like what the article describes but I
        immediately block any groups or users who post anything even slightly
        annoying. I almost never watch any video content at all. It's
        unironically better passive content than anywhere else left on the web,
        probably because all the people trying to be hip have gone somewhere
        else lol
        
        However whatever their UI is sluggish as hell and I'm surprised this
        wasn't discussed. You'll click block user/group and it will respond
        multiple seconds later (on my symmetric 1Gbps FIOS connection) and UI
        elements will jump around. FB messenger is slow as shit and
        occasionally will fail to decrypt/load messages entirely, even though
        it works fine on my phone (don't have regular FB on my phone so can't
        make that comparison). There's an anti-performance cargo-cult among web
        devs. Perhaps their metrics only show what it saves them on server
        costs. But if I did not already use the site it would be impossible to
        convince me to start.
       
        beeflet wrote 1 day ago:
        beautiful
       
        goldkey wrote 1 day ago:
        They're crushing it with anyone over 45
       
        ieie3366 wrote 1 day ago:
        You are just not the target audience. Meta is a trillion dollar company
        and their algos are extremely optimized.
        
        It probably detected your gender (male), age, location, social graph,
        as a combination of all these that you would be interested in
        AI-generated softcore pornography. And for the average user with your
        stats, they absolutely are.
        
        Of course, nobody at Meta hardcoded their algorithm to do this: it’s
        just naturally found out the kind of content a person with your specs
        loves. Sorry, OP
       
          ndarray wrote 1 day ago:
          They're clearly not that optimized when the user ends up complaining
          publicly. Don't tell others what they're supposed to like because
          some algo said so. Very cringe.
       
          cogman10 wrote 1 day ago:
          yup.
          
          I get a couple of thirst traps in my feed, but not many.  I
          definitely get a metric ton of AI shit.
          
          The stuff I'm actually following, friends, etc is pretty diluted.
       
        garyrob wrote 1 day ago:
        I'm 70. Most of my high school and college friends are on Facebook, and
        some other friends. So I use it (including its Messenger component) a
        lot to keep in touch! I know it's a generational thing. Just thought
        I'd mention it.
       
        greatgib wrote 1 day ago:
        Also something that frustrated me a lot is that when browsing with the
        web browser on a computer, there is absolutely no way to share a link
        to a post.
        
        For exemple there is a post with details about an event that will
        happen, when you look at available options: you can't click on it to go
        to a dedicated page like on LinkedIn, there is no option in the menu to
        have a shareable link. You can share with: someone on fb message, a
        group, your wall, things like that but no link.
        
        But on the phone is it possible.
       
          mtmail wrote 1 day ago:
          There's a perma-link when you click on the date of the post. But
          you're right, on the 'Share' button they have 5+ options, none of
          them is "copy link" or similar.
       
        rco8786 wrote 1 day ago:
        I just logged in to mine to see, I also can't remember the last time I
        looked at my news feed. My experience isn't quite as bad as OPs, but
        certainly plenty of AI slop and lots and lots of accounts that I don't
        follow and have never heard of.
       
        savolai wrote 1 day ago:
        Fb purity browser addon helps, though its ui is quite cryptic.
       
        overfeed wrote 1 day ago:
        I don't know if author coined the term, but "Meta's Gooniverse" is a
        better descriptor of its properties than "Family of apps" they use in
        quarterly reporting.
       
        nc wrote 1 day ago:
        It's your feed.
        
        Everyones feed is different.
        
        It depends on how much you train the algorithm.
        
        Yours is untrained, therefore slop.
       
        thepaulmcbride wrote 1 day ago:
        This is exactly the same experience I've had. I recently re-installed
        the app to use marketplace after moving to the US. My feed is mostly AI
        generated half naked women and AI generated conservative rage bait. It
        is so obvious that it's AI slop, but none of the comments ever mention
        it. I too assumed they were bots.
       
        Ancapistani wrote 1 day ago:
        I use Facebook a lot, but not for the social feed - Marketplace,
        business pages, and ads.
        
        I’ve never interacted with their “shorts” feature, and it’s all
        young women and girls in as little clothing as they can manage. It’s
        to the point that I don’t open the Facebook app in public.
        Ridiculous.
       
          mccr8 wrote 1 day ago:
          I think the trick to making the "shorts" feature stop showing
          scantily clad women is to use it actively a bit, and only watch the
          videos that are decidedly something else. I did that for awhile and
          now my videos are like "let's see what happens when you pour lava on
          some soda bottles" which I'm not sure I care that much about but at
          least it isn't embarrassing.
       
          shpx wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook is running the same kind of engagement-maximization
          algorithm on Marketplace postings, so half of my suggested postings
          when I open Marketplace is girls posing in the clothes they're
          selling.
       
          ergocoder wrote 1 day ago:
          The reels section is ridiculous. It's definitely NSFW. Facebook
          doesn't support hiding it permanently.
          
          Like what you experience, I cannot use Facebook at work anymore.
          
          Any Facebook PM out there? Can you make it a setting to hide it
          permanently?
       
            ceejayoz wrote 1 day ago:
            They can. They won’t.
       
          haunter wrote 1 day ago:
          Same, Facebook Marketplace is really good at my location because
          there is nothing else and never have been. It's not like Facebook
          destroyed something, no one else offered a classified sites like this
       
            ok123456 wrote 1 day ago:
            Craigslist.
       
              haunter wrote 1 day ago:
              There is a world outside of America
       
                insom wrote 1 day ago:
                Kijiji
       
                mckn1ght wrote 1 day ago:
                What does this mean here? The first several cities outside the
                US that I tried on craigslist were direct hits, with postings.
                People could use craigslist, they just don’t.
       
          jhaile wrote 1 day ago:
          This is one reason I'm really annoyed they are getting rid of
          messenger.com and requiring you to go to facebook.com to see your
          messages. I much prefer going to the specific site for chats and not
          having to see the feed...
       
            skobes wrote 1 day ago:
            I think you can still go directly to /messages/ and not see the
            feed.
       
          com2kid wrote 1 day ago:
          Facebook owning the local classifieds section is often overlooked.
          
          Offer up is dead in my area. Craigslist is a joke. Everything happens
          on FB marketplace. Vendors sell food, gyms liquidate old equipment,
          small furniture stores post their entire inventory.
          
          FB isn't monetizing any of that beyond ads for related products,
          which I guess is how they monetize everything.
       
            Cthulhu_ wrote 22 hours 6 min ago:
            Whatsapp too, I only caught a glimpse of that fairly recently after
            we had some local political issue (an asylum seeker center to be
            built nearby, nothing gets people riled up than something like
            that). Now I'm in a "post stuff to pick up for free" group, lol.
       
          partiallypro wrote 1 day ago:
          Same, I have never interacted with their Facebook reels/videos but
          all the video thumbnails are practically just videos of porn
          stars/OnlyFans style content. Instagram isn't as bad on the Reels
          side, you'll get good content there...but the feed itself is
          dreadful, I never see anything from friends. It's all just slop from
          bigger brands/publishers. At this point, there are just chat services
          to me and my friends.
       
            gs17 wrote 1 day ago:
            > Same, I have never interacted with their Facebook reels/videos
            but all the video thumbnails are practically just videos of porn
            stars/OnlyFans style content
            
            For me it fluctuates between animals and thirst traps. It's a
            really odd recommender system.
            
            > Instagram isn't as bad on the Reels side, you'll get good content
            there...
            
            Seems to depend how far you scroll, the first dozen will usually be
            good, clean recommendations. After that it goes downhill.
       
            com2kid wrote 1 day ago:
            My FB reels are educational content , music and artists.
            
            It is pretty much identical to my YT shorts feed, which means two
            algorithms have settled on almost identical content.
       
          karmakurtisaani wrote 1 day ago:
          They're selling me the life of a divorced dad as a goal of some kind.
          It is amusing to an extent.
       
            justonceokay wrote 1 day ago:
            It’s telling that targeting “men” has a markedly different
            effect than targeting “father”. In a real way TikTok has an
            opinionated viewpoint of what is important to men and being a
            father is not one of them
       
        jcgrillo wrote 1 day ago:
        I sometimes use marketplace, it works better than craigslist for
        finding cheap firewood logs, used car parts, and other random shit. I
        made a burner account for that. It worked fine and I was able to ignore
        the rest of their garbage products. However, I had to delete the app
        from my phone because the fucking thing wouldn't stop with the
        notifications. BTW if any of you assholes work at Uber or Lyft--same
        problem. My new pattern for using this garbage, and only when I
        absolutely must, is:
        
        (1) download the app
        (2) use it for whatever i need to get done 
        (3) delete it
        
        TBH this article is interesting, I haven't actually looked at fb since
        I last had an account ca. 2009. It was headed that way then, and I'm
        not surprised it got there.
        
        But back to the usage pattern above, if someone at Apple is listening
        please build a sandbox for these malicious apps that just fucking
        silences them unless I choose to run it by which I mean literally not a
        single CPU instruction of their code runs unless I explicitly tell it
        to. Thanks.
       
        varenc wrote 1 day ago:
        Another aspect of FB's decline: it's increasingly buggy. Too many
        issues to list, but curious if others have noticed this as well? Last
        week I got stuck trying to login via mobile web, kept approving the
        login via the mobile app but the web never seemed to receive that
        approval and I just had to give up.
       
        d--b wrote 1 day ago:
        I never opened an account. For me facebook was like this from day 1. I
        thought it was cooked in 2009. I guess I was somewhat wrong.
       
        numbers wrote 1 day ago:
        Yeah, I have a Facebook that's about 2-3 years old now, and I use it
        mainly from Marketplace. But man, if I just accidentally go to the
        feed, it's just a bunch of spam and some sort of bait, whether it's
        rage bait or thirst traps or anything like that. Facebook is maybe
        trying to see if I'll engage with it, but mainly because I use the app
        for Marketplace, it just continues to recommend garbage.
       
          kurthr wrote 1 day ago:
          Next time someone is confused about the meaning of the word
          "Enshitification" just pull up Facebook.
       
        hsuduebc2 wrote 1 day ago:
        It's garbage now it's main purpose is to confuse older people with ai
        slop or ragebait them with politics.
        
        It's really unfortunate that these people don't know, don't understand
        or even don't believe that this is algoritmic feed tailored
        specifically for you.
        
        I have people in my family which basically believe that there is a
        pride march every Tuesday in cities around or country.
       
        dmschulman wrote 1 day ago:
        One thing I've noticed is a large difference between what's served on
        Facebook's desktop site and what's served on their mobile version. I
        don't use the app, I just log into facebook.com on my phone, but the
        mobile version is serving 100% more of this AI slop than on desktop.
        
        I think it's obvious why given the way users interact with sites/apps
        on their devices vs on desktop (they want to make FB mobile as
        TikTok-like as possible), but it's really striking how much of Facebook
        on mobile is just a bunch of AI slop at this point. I see some creep in
        on desktop too, mostly within the Reels/Shorts section (same
        creators/videos on both platforms, that is), but to see my recommended
        feed content be so vastly different indicates a lot to me about how the
        algorithm interprets user behavior and a lot of Meta's thinking about
        mobile audiences.
        
        EDIT: mind you I don't follow a single topic or favorite anything on
        the platform, the content being served/recommended to me is purely
        based (as far as I can tell) on gender/demographic info they know about
        me and user behavior.
       
        cwoolfe wrote 1 day ago:
        what comes after facebook?
       
        holoduke wrote 1 day ago:
        For me Facebook is no longer relevant for friend stuff. But I find it
        pretty    good in group stuff. For example their are groups about my town
        where I live. Historical groups or modern ones. Or a group about a
        specific car model I own. I just have to filter out all the ai / porn
        slop that goes into my feed.
       
          joninous wrote 1 day ago:
          > a group about a specific car model I own
          
          This is basically the only reason why I occasionally log in to
          Facebook these days. Facebook groups seems to be the place where car
          owners gather to share information regarding their vehicles, at least
          here in Finland. I have found discussions in these groups very
          valuable e.g. when I'm diagnosing a problem or evaluating whether
          some defect will be covered by warranty or not.
       
        mattfrommars wrote 1 day ago:
        Facebook is still has excellent marketplace
        
        Only that keeps me going back.
       
          tartoran wrote 1 day ago:
          I stopped using Facebook for a while but I agree that their
          marketplace used to be pretty good for a while, that until it started
          to be spammed with scams. It became really unusable IMO.
       
        hexage1814 wrote 1 day ago:
        >Click to show mildly sensitive content (revealing clothing)
        
        Those warnings are stupid.
       
        josefritzishere wrote 1 day ago:
        I nuked my fb account years ago. I wasn't sure at the time if I was
        craving more substance or if it was becoming more vapid. Looking back
        not... definitely both.
       
        29athrowaway wrote 1 day ago:
        They capitulated to TikTok by adding thirst content and suggested
        content based on activity.
       
        rmoriz wrote 1 day ago:
        I can't understand how such AI slop ca make money on FB or TikTok. I
        mean hardly anything gets viral.
       
        zzzeek wrote 1 day ago:
        all the AI / crap shown in this post is the not awful part of facebook.
        
        the awful part is the intense swarm of hateful bigots that arrive at
        any post that shows any kind of misfortune on the part of people who
        are not white and republican.    I'm pretty sure that a large number of
        these accounts are not bots; they're real people living around the
        country, seething in bigoted hatred who can now post with impunity the
        most vile and disgusting crap I've ever seen.
        
        Example: A local news post shows three boys who have been reported
        missing (yes, people's children missing, and no, this is not about
        immigration - for those posts, the hate and racism is vastly worse).  
        The three boys happen to be Black.  Only one comment is actually
        displayed beneath the photo:  "They all look the same to me!" - then
        more (I'm cutting and pasting these from the actual post just now):
        "Tell them by their hair??? No???"  "How can you tell one from
        another?"   "Did'n do nuffin man"  "Missing or escaped!?"   comments
        flooded by revolting, actual racism, against innocent children who are
        potentially in severe danger.  Moderation is not an option at all here,
        there's thousands of these people swarming any such post, the posts are
        from some local news source that comes from an aggregator of some kind
        that does no moderation of any kind, nobody cares, it's just a huge
        platform for vast mobs of the most deplorable people you ever hoped
        didn't exist.
        
        This site needs to be closed down like yesterday.
       
        lich_king wrote 1 day ago:
        I can sympathize with this take, but I think it misses the point: the
        platform is not broken. It's delivering people precisely what they
        want. If you look at the version of this for young people - TikTok,
        Snapchat stories - it's the same thing. Busty models, increasingly AI
        generated, and various made-up "heartwarming stories" or rage bait. Go
        to YouTube, and you have more of the same.
        
        This is not even an internet-era thing. Before that, some of the
        best-selling magazines were basically celebrity gossip. Facebook just
        found a way to scale it and make more money off of it.
        
        The only thing that surprises me now is that people don't actually mind
        it if you point out that they're liking, commenting, or resharing AI
        slop. It doesn't even matter that the story wasn't real. It's enough
        that the kitten is cute, or whatever.
       
        radpanda wrote 1 day ago:
        I haven't used Facebook in probably a decade or so.  I've missed out on
        Facebook Marketplace apparently - at least 5 people in this thread
        mention using Facebook for that specifically, and I have heard numerous
        friends talk about snagging good stuff person-to-person like I used to
        do with Craigslist.  OTOH, I haven't heard anything especially good
        about Facebook Marketplace's UI or features, just that "everyone is on
        Facebook", so it reaches a lot of people.
        
        I wonder what will be next after Facebook Marketplace dwindles
        (assuming eventually "everyone" is no longer on Facebook).  Going back
        to Craigslist?    Something new?
       
          chistev wrote 1 day ago:
          I've never seen "OTOH" used before but I understood what it meant
          from context. Lol.
       
        xnx wrote 1 day ago:
        I was also surprised to find that Facebook feed ads are now ai chumbox
        quality.
        
  HTML  [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbox
       
        CrzyLngPwd wrote 1 day ago:
        I have a similar experience on both FB and IG.
        
        I only log in to see what friends/family are doing, and I have fewer
        than 100 friends on both added together, but I have to scroll and
        scroll to see anything by those I am interested in.
        
        Whether it's AI or not, it's all irrelevant slop to me.
       
        AJRF wrote 1 day ago:
        I use Facebook for marketplace and when I logged in the first post I
        saw was the half time score for a football game that happened 3 weeks
        ago.
        
        They are not sending their best.
       
        phkahler wrote 1 day ago:
        If you want to see your friends posts, you have to click the icon of
        people. I agree that the default feed has become absolute garbage.
       
        next_xibalba wrote 1 day ago:
        This amounts to an anecdote and an opinion. What are the actual
        engagement numbers? I suspect Facebook is doing just fine.
        
        My own anecdotes are that Facebook Groups tend to be the nexus of
        legacy social features and that Marketplace has overtaken Craigslist
        for person to person sales.
        
        But the feed is now more akin to TikTok than friend feed 1.0 from the
        late 2000s.
        
        Again, I’d love to see actual Facebook engagement data, not some
        guy’s opinion.
       
        plagiarist wrote 1 day ago:
        > Why do women feel refreshed after arguments
        
        This sort of thing is perfect ragebait that Facebook et al love to
        serve to their products.
        
        The only problem for FB is that there's nowhere to angrily contradict.
        I suppose their algo feed shunted this author into the young male to
        incel radicalization pipeline? They must serve differently enraging
        suggested questions once they have more data on the viewer.
       
        Legend2440 wrote 1 day ago:
        My facebook feed is mostly low-effort reposted memes from
        tumblr/twitter/reddit, political ragebait, and screenshots of jokes
        from TV shows.
        
        It's usually not AI (at least not obviously) but it's still slop.
       
        dash2 wrote 1 day ago:
        This is the tech version of "nobody I know voted for Nixon": FB's
        position in the US & Europe is very misleading from a global
        perspective.
        
        In the Philippines, say, Facebook is the internet. Every business runs
        on it. People use it instead of news. Everybody uses Messenger to chat.
        You get free minutes with your phone that are specifically for
        FB/IG/Messenger.
       
          testing22321 wrote 1 day ago:
          Yup. I spent time in 35 countries in Africa. FB is the internet.
       
            dguest wrote 1 day ago:
            Does FB data count against your data quota in these countries? I've
            been quite a few places where it's impossible to buy a sim card
            that doesn't give you free facebook and WhatsApp.
            
            You can't use the real internet without asking your friends to pay
            for it.
       
              testing22321 wrote 1 day ago:
              That was common, as was the FB lite app
       
          dlisboa wrote 1 day ago:
          I don't see it as misleading at all. You're leaving out half the
          world and implying it's doing fine. Regular Facebook usage in Brazil
          is also non-existent and it's the 5th or so biggest Internet market.
          China doesn't have it. I'm not sure about India usage. So if FB isn't
          popular in the US, EU, China, Brazil, etc, that's an extreme amount
          of market loss.
       
            underlipton wrote 1 day ago:
            WhatsApp covers a lot of the remainder. When I worked at a job with
            frequent contact with international guests, the vast majority of
            people from Africa and SEA, and a good portion of those from Latin
            American and MENA, were on it. In fact, the first time I'd heard of
            the app was from them. This was about 10 or 11 years ago. It might
            have changed since then, as Facebook has for us, but Zuck's empire
            (read: illegal monopoly) has been dominant globally.
       
              insane_dreamer wrote 1 day ago:
              Sure, but WhatsApp and FB are really completely different things,
              despite both being owned by Meta.
       
          michaelbuckbee wrote 1 day ago:
          Addendum to this: my filipina aunt is elderly and I was absolutely
          shocked at the amount of highly specific AI generated content
          seemingly targeted directly at her on Facebook.
          
          Except instead of thirst traps it was a weird mix of outrage porn,
          religious imagery, and kids + pets being cute, singing or rescued
          from odd situations.
          
          I asked a few questions of her to try and figure out if she like
          really grasped that it was AI, and she knew the general idea, but
          there's already so many filters and choppy edits of things it was
          honestly just too hard for her to make the distinction.
       
            halapro wrote 1 day ago:
            The Filipino Facebook world is absolutely atrocious. You can't go 5
            minutes in a public place without hearing a barrage of asinine
            sound effects and enhanced laughter emanating from these loud
            phones.
       
            ryandrake wrote 1 day ago:
            I had a similar revulsion watching older folks in my family scroll
            and scroll through obvious AI slop and AI ragebait. They can't even
            really tell it's AI, and they just sit there gobbling it all up,
            even though it's 100% nonsense. I mean, on one hand, who am I to
            tell people what media to like and consume, but on the other hand,
            I kind of fear for their grip on reality.
       
              cleandreams wrote 1 day ago:
              This is not Facebook but I have a young friend who gets her news
              on Epstein from tiktok. She is convinced they were eating babies.
              I do worry (a little) that she will go over the conspiracy
              theories deep end. I told her tiktok news was bad "mental
              hygiene" but she didn't get it.
       
                gzread wrote 1 day ago:
                There is real, but weak, evidence the Epstein gang were eating
                babies. A lot of past conspiracy theories are suddenly seeming
                more plausible in light of the Epstein files.
       
                sneak wrote 1 day ago:
                > She is convinced they were eating babies. I do worry (a
                little) that she will go over the conspiracy theories deep end.
                
                Nothing to worry about; she already has.
       
                arczyx wrote 1 day ago:
                > She is convinced they were eating babies
                
                There are indeed allegations of that, so it's not impossible.
                You can read it yourself here: [1] > On the yacht he witnessed
                babies being dismembered, their intestines removed, and
                individuals eating the
                feces from these intestines
                
  HTML          [1]: https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA...
       
                  DaedalusII wrote 1 day ago:
                  this is a member of the general public who filed a report to
                  the FBI. it carries about as much weight as a post on 4chan.
                  you can see the sarcastic response from the FBI officer as
                  well
                  
                  it is exactly this kind of content that is so pervasive and
                  misleading. the FBI get thousands of reports like this every
                  day saying that george bush is a lizard, antarctica is full
                  of UFOs etc.
                  
                  Let me use the same sentence structure as above, with another
                  example to highlight the absurdity of it:
                  
                  "a member of the general public alleged angela merkel was
                  receiving instructions from a russian UFO scientist that had
                  contact with an insect alien spieces in alpha centauri, so
                  its not impossible.
       
                  firtoz wrote 1 day ago:
                  Looking at the rest of the file, I'd rate the credibility of
                  this as 2/10.
                  
                  But of course I can also see how this could have been taken
                  as fact and spread like wildfire. I wish good luck to the
                  investigators, wow.
       
                    m000 wrote 1 day ago:
                    Which is exactly the point of the parent. Before Epstein
                    files you would probably rate the rumour at 0/10
                    credibility.
       
          nathanaldensr wrote 1 day ago:
          As someone with a Filipina wife and who's traveled many times to the
          Philippines, your characterization is exactly correct. Facebook is
          the option, not just one option.
          
          Interesting side fact: The Philippines is #1 in social media usage in
          the world.
       
            nojs wrote 1 day ago:
            > The Philippines is #1 in social media usage in the world.
            
            By what metric?
       
        QuadrupleA wrote 1 day ago:
        Holy crap. What a dystopia. Guess some of this blood money went into
        free Llama models and the react.js ecosystem (dubious gift to the
        world).
        
        Is it possible to make money these days without being ethically
        bankrupt?
       
        lgl wrote 1 day ago:
        The interface... Oh.. the terrible terrible UI on desktop...
        
        Switch tabs, come back.. it refreshes everything and you can never go
        back.
        
        Comment threads with 100+ comments with only a "show more" link, which
        again.. se previous paragraph.
        
        See a video, click fullscreen icon. Doesn't go fullscreen, goes to some
        weird modal window, muted. Click fullscreen again..
        
        And I'm sure I could go on... It's really a sad shell of the simplicity
        it once was.
       
          grishka wrote 1 day ago:
          That's what metrics-driven development gets you.
       
        TheRealPomax wrote 1 day ago:
        "Facebook is just clickbait slop and is making billions" is more the
        opposite of cooked. They managed to turn garbage into dollars, and
        people are eating it up for as long as they're allowed to do exploit
        their market position.
       
        mirekrusin wrote 1 day ago:
        I think author goes on porn sites and it skews algo towards crap like
        that (no cookies/incognito/etc doesn't save you from them tracking
        where you move), especially if he's not active on fb then that's the
        only signal they get.
       
          hmokiguess wrote 1 day ago:
          Takes one to know one? Could you elaborate
       
            mirekrusin wrote 1 day ago:
            Meta is $201B total revenue business, virtually all advertising.
            
            Instagram is estimated to generate half of ad revenue.
            
            WhatsApp and Messenger contribute relatively little to ad revenue.
            
            So facebook.com alone must be generating around $100B revenue
            annually.
            
            It's impossible that something generating this revenue is serving
            AI generated NSFW teens pics with botnets commenting on those
            pictures only.
            
            Real humans must be engaging with real ads at massive scale to make
            this money.
            
            Failure mode for people reporting "I didn't use fb for a while,
            then I come back and see adult-like dominated content" sounds like
            plausible explanation of ad revenue optimized algo with weak,
            singular signal.
            
            It could also be just cold start problem where algo has zero
            engagement signal and yields thirst traps for { gender: male, age:
            ~30s, engagement_history: [] } state.
            
            But it's hard for me to believe that - frankly it doesn't sound
            like the best output if you want to capture somebody who has real
            friends and family in their network, did the algo really learned
            that people with this input state click likes on pics like that?
            
            Why not just serve engagement from friends network or even "wish
            happy birthday to X tomorrow" instead – sounds like better way to
            engage to me.
            
            ps. I also don't use fb but I do login maybe once a year / every
            two years to double check I'm not hacked, can still login etc. When
            I do it I may spend few minutes scrolling and I can see just posts
            from my network (double checked again now, lgtm).
            
            Whatever issue OP has, they probably should spend few minutes
            engaging, maybe just dismiss/click don't like/hide/whatever it is
            to signal they're not interested - algo should pick it up and their
            feed should look more like what they expect.
            
            What's your explanation?
       
              hmokiguess wrote 1 day ago:
              I took the OP post at face value and that they preach what they
              say. If OP said he’s disgusted by those things then wouldn’t
              the ads be doing a bad match against the target demographic? I
              would expect ads, the largest revenue machine as you mentioned,
              to work really well. So to accept your statement would mean OP is
              sort of lying, that that content is a good match for OP and they
              are just trying to avoid it and hide that.
       
        h05sz487b wrote 1 day ago:
        The original moltbook. Just bots talking to each other.
       
        zoogeny wrote 1 day ago:
        I log into Facebook website a couple of times a week to browse
        Marketplace. I very rarely check the feed (once a month?) since almost
        no human I know posts there. But my feed has 0 thirst traps when I just
        checked. It was some musicians I follow, one or two pictures posted by
        friends, the workout routines from a distant family member, local news
        and then a whole bunch of comedy skits and old comic strips turned into
        reels.
        
        It is 60% garbage but actually the 40% that is there is completely
        different and valuable compared even to YouTube (where I spend the
        lions share of my social media time). But I actually think that only
        looking at it once a month is the best way since if I look at the feed
        more often I notice it slowly skews more to 90% garbage and 10% value.
       
        varispeed wrote 2 days ago:
        Instagram is serving me literal porn when I browse shorts (for instance
        women showing their private parts). It's amazing that they are unable
        or maybe don't want to block it.
        
        Facebook basically has sexual content spam as in the OP article all the
        way.
        
        It's to the point I'd never open either app when in public.
       
          gs17 wrote 1 day ago:
          > It's amazing that they are unable or maybe don't want to block it.
          
          I'm not convinced they care about moderation outside of legal
          necessity.
       
            varispeed wrote 1 day ago:
            This is illegal in the UK, as they have to do age check for adult
            content. Also showing person porn without consent constitutes some
            form of sexual assault.
       
        nickla wrote 2 days ago:
        I deleted my account in 2005 when I noticed that it wasn't just for
        getting to know local groups. Before I deleted it I was contacted by a
        pretty woman who had 100 friends who were all the same last name as me.
        That's all she wanted to do is contact people who were "related". I had
        the suspicion she was a bot. People call me stupid for doing so, but
        now it is just bots?
       
          ASalazarMX wrote 1 day ago:
          There were some fun things like that back then. One of my early
          Facebook accounts was a videogame alias than included the work
          "clown", and I received invitations from other users that had "clown"
          in their names, its circle of friends became a virtual circus.
       
        jmyeet wrote 2 days ago:
        Facebook in particular, and social media in general, is an excellent
        example of making short-term decisions ultimately leading to your doom.
        
        FB of course started as a way for college kids to follow each other and
        see what's going on. Then rather than a chronological feed we got the
        newsfeed. This was hugely controversial, actually. Apparently ~10% of
        the user base threatened to quit over it [1].
        
        But why did they do it? Because it increased engagement. And every
        social media platform since has followed the newsfeed model.
        
        But the big thing (IMHO) that led to FB's destruction was sharing
        links. I bet this too increased engagement but it ultimately leads to
        your feed being flooded with your weird uncle posting conspiracy
        theories.
        
        All social media platforms have moved away from this idea of following
        your friends and family. They're all now a way of disseminating "news"
        and following celebrities. How social groups keep in touch now is group
        chats.
        
        I firmly believe this recommendation model is headed for a reckoning
        with governments around the world. We have the Meta trial going on now,
        the EU investigating platforms for addictive practices (where is this
        same smoke for sports betting and crypto gambling I wonder?) and so on.
        
        In the US, this comes back to Section 230, a law established in the
        1990s that created legal cover for user generated content because it
        shielded platforms from legal liability as long as they met certain
        requirements (eg moderation, legal takedowns). The alternative is to be
        a publisher (eg a newspaper) who are responsible for their content.
        
        I believe that the algorithmic newsfeed has created a way to let social
        media platforms act as publishers but enjoy thei protections of being a
        platform.
        
        Let me put it this way: if, for example, you as a publisher make
        endless posts about the evils of Cuba, how is that different from
        having user-generated content where you promote anti-Cuba content and
        suppress pro-Cuba content? In my opinion, it isn't, functionally. This
        will ultimately come to a head.
        
        Anyway, back to Facebook, I know some still use groups but really who
        uses FB anymore? For awhile, Meta had the golden goose with IG but even
        that seems to be in decline. Twitter has declined way from its peak and
        was never mainstream. Snapchat enjoyed a very young audience for
        ephemeral messaging. I have no idea what the current state is. It seems
        like Tiktok is the only platform still enjoying growth.
        
        [1] 
        
  HTML  [1]: https://www.fastcompany.com/4018352/facebooks-news-feed-just-t...
       
        dathinab wrote 2 days ago:
        > (I dunno, maybe those are all bots too.)
        
        I wish,
        
        but from personal experience I'm afraid quite a bunch of them are
        creepy old guys which have no idea how creepy they have become(1),
        because they are in a bubble with mostly only other creepy old guys
        
        (1): Like I don't mean people which always have been creepy or
        "secret/hidden" creepy. But people which through increasingly more "not
        caring" and echo champers/ad bubbles and similar twisting their world
        perception/social feedback loop have become increasingly more creepy in
        the last 10-20 years.
       
          sva_ wrote 1 day ago:
          In German we have a word for old people who post with their real name
          under such posts: Klarnamensexboomer ('real name sex boomer')
       
        qq66 wrote 2 days ago:
        Facebook doesn't care about Facebook.com anymore. The value of their
        business is almost entirely in Instagram, with some future potential in
        WhatsApp.
       
          giobox wrote 1 day ago:
          While I mostly agree, Meta cares a great deal about
          facebook.com/marketplace, which has been hugely successful.
       
            qq66 wrote 1 day ago:
            Do they make any money from Marketplace?
       
          reddalo wrote 2 days ago:
          I mean, if they cared about Facebook they wouldn't have launched
          Threads.
       
        vjk800 wrote 2 days ago:
        I recently joined back to Facebook to follow some local groups. I
        barely see anyone I know posting on Facebook anymore. Even the local
        group seems kind of dead considering how many people live here.
        
        So where are people now? If I want to get informed on local events,
        etc., where should I go?
       
          tomstockmail wrote 1 day ago:
          Your local library? Mine has a bulletin board where anyone can pin
          something (like Pinterest, but in real life) and numerous events. If
          yours doesn't, start one?
       
        dekhn wrote 2 days ago:
        I stopped when it started showing propaganda from the CCP (at least it
        was clearly labelled as such). [1] [2] It was already slop before that.
        
  HTML  [1]: https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/chinese-state-me...
  HTML  [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/1i67ja9/whats_going_on...
       
          esseph wrote 2 days ago:
          > I stopped when it started showing propaganda from the CCP
          
          What did you do when it showed you propaganda from other countries?
       
            dekhn wrote 1 day ago:
            Well, I'm in the US, I already know how to recognize US propaganda
            and ignore it  :)
            
            I don't think I was shown anything that was clearly labelled as
            "state-sponsored-media" from any other country and I don't think I
            saw anything that was propaganda, but not labelled as such,
            although I typically scrolled past the obvious ads and AI slop so I
            might have missed something.
       
              _3u10 wrote 1 day ago:
              Yeah, it definitely never labelled state sponsored media from the
              UK or Canada for me. Living in Paraguay, it still doesn't label
              it as a state sponsored propaganda. I'm not sure why propaganda
              from Eastern / Mainland Taiwan gets so much attention, the
              legitimate government there certainly does not sponsor it.
       
        bramhaag wrote 2 days ago:
        My feed has devolved into AI generated propaganda with a scary amount
        of genuine support. Police brutality against minorities and other
        politically relevant groups; all fake but with hundreds of seemingly
        real replies cheering them on.
       
          ddtaylor wrote 1 day ago:
          It's mostly all ICE engagement bait on both sides. In the same way we
          are all guilty of upvoting an article without reading it, they will
          amplify their ideas or viewpoints by signal boosting a video. The
          same way an echo chamber forms around a questionable news site that
          is often proven wrong or lying. The source doesn't matter anymore
          only the numbers.
       
          ge96 wrote 2 days ago:
          Maybe the replies are also fake to drive the narrative
          
          It is interesting where you go on (eg. echo chambers) but like 9gag
          for example is super racist and doesn't seem to be moderated.
          
          Like TruthSocial do real people actually use that? Crazy
       
            jalapenos wrote 18 hours 23 min ago:
            I just searched "TruthSocial".
            
            First result is Trump's page, which I could access without a login.
            
            There is the same ad "Featured Ad. Must See Video. This Video Will
            Soon Be Banned. Watch Before It's Deleted" repeated about a dozen
            times on the page, showing a woman wearing booty shorts approaching
            a private jet.
            
            Looks very highbrow
       
            efilife wrote 1 day ago:
            They are not fake. I've also seen these and checked commenters'
            profiles. Real people, in the 35-50 age range.
       
              ryandrake wrote 1 day ago:
              How can you tell by just looking at their profile? Bots have for
              over a decade been able to generate a profile with a real looking
              picture (usually just scraped from the web) and a realistic
              sounding bio.
       
                trueno wrote 1 day ago:
                yea im surprised i see so many times that people on
                _hackernews_ are convinced profile activity is real.
                
                theres entire marketing companies that provide what is
                effectively a botnet of social media activity to generate buzz,
                promising packages with "social media engagement". disney uses
                these to try and hype movie trailers, when the recent tron
                trailer came out it took 1 minute for a bunch of comments that
                looked like seemingly real enough accounts to be in there
                posting "im not ready for this" "omg" etc. and yes, these
                networks of fake accounts on all social media platforms do have
                non-vacant profiles meaning theyve got comments and stuff all
                over each others pages. there was a recent smaller production
                that is suing their marketing agency which promised this
                deceptive engagement and their implementation shit the bed and
                all the bots just interacted amongst themselves on the movies
                instagram page. the movie completely tanked at the box office
                because they never got their fake accounts to start engaging
                outside of the movies instagram account.
                
                everyone focuses on the actual content itself as the subject of
                AI platform abuse, but are we really so naive to think that the
                companies pouring millions of dollars into these efforts are
                too stupid to understand that controlling the narrative
                involves requires simulating human feedback?
                
                its in our nature to want to "go to the comments" to "get the
                real tea" and. im just going to say right now that yeah, the
                entities deploying these types of accounts are well aware that
                that is how many of us look for perspective. they're not
                stupid, and it's easier than it's ever been to game commentary
                in 2026.
       
                ge96 wrote 1 day ago:
                Tangent but reddit allows people to hide their post/comment
                history which is fine I guess but it's not great for that
                reason, trying to see if an account is a bot or not. Other than
                age can't tell anything about that account.
                
                I notice more and more accounts use it, particularly the spicy
                commenters. Which is whatever, I try to stay away from social
                media now, this is SM here but at least it's more technically
                oriented/useful.
       
                  bramhaag wrote 1 day ago:
                  People can curate their profiles, but not search results.
                  Their posts and comments will still show up if you just
                  search on their user page.
       
              ge96 wrote 1 day ago:
              I wonder if these are the people that cause a ruckus at protests
              ha
       
        boredtofears wrote 2 days ago:
        I'm on FB primarily because my local buy-nothing group is on it, so I
        am logging in multiple times a day. I'm so used to this slop it's
        pretty funny at this point, but as is the case with all social media,
        you tune your algorithm as you engage. At this point it pushes things
        like cooking videos and hockey clips more than the AI slop for me.
        
        Sometimes I'll go down a rabbit hole of clicking AI generated videos
        just because my curiosity is piqued, and then I'll be stuck getting
        that slop fed to me for the next week. I have to make a mental note to
        actively disengage with it as quickly as possible to tip the algo in
        the other direction.
       
        bmurphy1976 wrote 2 days ago:
        My FB feed is filled with slag that's got nothing to do with anything
        I'm interested in, my friends or family. I have wade through 85-90% of
        that crap just to see a post from a friend inviting everybody to a BBQ
        they are having which is already 2 weeks past the event.  Oh, and every
        time I log in I have 10+ unread notifications that again are more
        desperate attempts at getting me to engage with the platform and not
        actually something that should have ever been sent as a notification.
        
        FUCK THAT.
        
        So I don't use Facebook. I cannot wait for this house of cards to
        collapse in on itself.
       
        da02 wrote 2 days ago:
        The first half of the last paragraph is a warning: Get schools to stop
        using  Facebook.  If they are showing that kind of content to a grown
        hetero-woman, I'd hate to wonder what they show to everyone else.
        
        I never signed up to that site because I thought sooner or later Google
        or some startup would just clone it, lower the ad count, improve
        censorship, and run it at near break-even. Especially since you don't
        have to save every single post created for eternity.
       
        bananamogul wrote 2 days ago:
        Facebook is just fine.
        
        This is mostly about OP, not Facebook.    The reason he sees tons of AI
        images of AI girls is because that's the kind of content he consumes on
        various Meta platforms.  When I login to Facebook, I see none of that. 
        So...
        
        I am in a couple dozen active groups across a variety of topics -
        guitar, tech, TV shows, history, tabletop gaming, etc. - and 99% of
        posts are on-topic chatter by humans.
        
        I prefer Reddit because it's longer-form content but with communities,
        it's about where there's a center of gravity - a subreddit, a FB group,
        a Discord, a traditional forum, etc.  I go where the people are.  And a
        lot of those people are on FB for some niches.
        
        The "FB is nothing but AI slop and ads" is a myth.  I have interesting
        conversations with people I don't personally know (in a real life
        sense) on FB every day.
       
          npilk wrote 2 days ago:
          Well, I haven't really used any Meta platforms for at least 5 years,
          so I don't think that's how they're deciding what to serve me.
          
          I could definitely believe that I used to click on more pictures of
          girls than boys back in high school and college when I actually used
          Facebook. But they would have been real pictures of people I was
          friends with.
          
          To your point, I'm sure if I used the product more, the algorithm
          would get "better" according to what I engaged with.
       
          artemonster wrote 2 days ago:
          I read a RARE friend-made post, close tab, decide to
          react/support/comment/like on it, reopen FB and this post is buried
          forever in the feed, findable only if you search this person again.
          fuck them for fucking with my feed. 
          Forget if this was a post from some group, since they can be shown to
          you out of order, good luck finding it
       
        nimbius wrote 2 days ago:
        Man who remembers when a big Mac was a wholesome and tasty meal option
        now shocked to find that, under capitalism, the wrapper is actually
        more nutritious than the meal itself.
       
        gniv wrote 2 days ago:
        I login for the groups. Some private groups have a ton of useful info
        that's well organized, plus helpful folks that are eager to answer
        questions.
       
          ks2048 wrote 1 day ago:
          Groups and Marketplace seem to be the main genuine uses in many
          non-US countries.
       
          JKCalhoun wrote 1 day ago:
          (I know, frying pans and fires) I started a Google Group as an
          alternative to a Meta group that I don't want to need Mata to
          participate in.
       
          reddalo wrote 2 days ago:
          And that's almost as sad as Discord "forums". It's useful information
          that's completely siloed out from the public web.
       
            unsharted wrote 1 day ago:
            On a positive note, posts from groups I was interested in have been
            targeted at my feed by the algorithm. Still not public, but least
            there is some sort of exposure to "passers-by"
       
          fusslo wrote 2 days ago:
          local town offices mostly use facebook for news and events.
          
          I signed up in 2023 after not using it since 2008. I can't believe
          how bad the marketplace feature is compared to craigslist. It's
          trying to get me to keep coming back and serve me different ads. I
          just want to see all the local ads that match my search!
       
        davesque wrote 2 days ago:
        It's a complete mystery to me how Facebook operates. Like, they need
        money to keep the lights on, right? Where is the money coming from if
        no humans are using the platform?
       
          wcfrobert wrote 2 days ago:
          Ad duopoly with Google.
          
          Half of all humans on Earth uses Meta products (Facebook, Instagram,
          Messenger, WhatsApp, Threads). These products are free for you to
          use. But for Meta, your attention is the product which they sell to
          advertisers.
          
          99% of their revenue comes from ads, and 1% comes from VR stuff.
       
          sylos wrote 2 days ago:
          Government funded!
       
            nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
            Yes, erm, why do you think they get the tax breaks!
       
          jjtheblunt wrote 2 days ago:
          isn't the money coming from advertisers placing ads, even if no one
          is really paying the placed ads attention?
       
          smt88 wrote 2 days ago:
          An astonishing number of people use Facebook daily, and Instagram is
          also a huge revenue generator. The company itself is thriving despite
          terrible products.
       
        goatsi wrote 2 days ago:
        >But on the other hand, I hadn't logged in in nearly a decade!
        
        This is the cause. With a long dormant account, facebook has no real
        content to show you. Your friends will almost all be dormant as well,
        even the facebook pages and groups you were part of are likely to have
        fallen silent. Facebook will feed you directly from the slop firehose
        rather than show you a blank feed.
       
        arjie wrote 2 days ago:
        Huh. I thought perhaps it was the usual "why are all the recommendation
        algorithms showing me gay porn?" class of complaint, but I went and
        logged in and it seems that he's not wrong though the degree seems to
        vary. I've got a bunch of these but also a bunch of outrage bait and
        generic general stuff. I think if you don't use the platform you get
        the undifferentiated high-engagement stuff which is likely the same as
        those Taboola chumboxes that people have on their websites.
        
        EDIT: Hilariously, I went there 45 minutes later and I must have
        interacted with something because now everything is posts about
        football (along with the "i want an argument with my husband" post!).
        I'm in the Bay Area Gooners group but that's been over a decade, so
        presumably what happens is they don't run recommendations until someone
        shows activity. Just logging and browsing the feed must have triggered
        it because I didn't see any football stuff last time except BAG.
       
          jalapenos wrote 1 day ago:
          > Bay Area Gooners group
          
          Just searched this and was not what expected
       
            ngruhn wrote 1 day ago:
            unfortunate naming in retrospect
       
        brycethornton wrote 2 days ago:
        I still use Groups and Marketplace but my home feed is blocked thanks
        to News Feed Eradicator. Check it out if you haven't heard of it. It's
        a browser extension that can block the home feed (and more) for a
        number of social sites.
       
        paxys wrote 2 days ago:
        > I logged on for the first time in ~8 years
        
        That's the problem. Your friends and liked pages have all moved on and
        aren't posting anymore. The algorithm has no idea what to show you.
        
        FWIW I don't use Facebook actively but do log in once in a while,
        mainly for marketplace and neighborhood groups. And a ton of my friends
        are still active there (might be giving away my age). The first post on
        my feed not from a friend is at #14, and it's a clip from a comedian,
        so content I don't mind. Then one at #18, which is an article posted by
        a local newspaper. Further down at #25 or so from the onion. Keep
        scrolling I see New York Times, Gothamist, Subway Takes, Cracked
        (that's still around?), WTA. Overall my feed is almost entirely posts
        from my friends from the last week or relevant news, and I see zero AI
        slop or other posts of the kind that are in the article.
        
        So basically - it's all about the algorithm and your connections. A
        "cooked" product doesn't make a trillion dollars every quarter.
       
          criddell wrote 2 days ago:
          > The algorithm has no idea what to show you.
          
          If you run into somebody you don't know, your first instinct
          shouldn't be to start showing them porn.
          
          I don't use Facebook but I do use YouTube and their recommendations
          are horrendously bad for me. So many AI videos.
          
          For some reason last night it thought I wanted to see bogus videos of
          porch pirates stealing a package that's actually a glitter bomb. I
          clicked through to the comments and the top comment was something
          like "Who are these AI videos for?" and the response was something
          like "Me. I know they are fake but I like seeing thieves get what's
          coming to them."
          
          Mike Judge is a prophet.
          
  HTML    [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWfOMeLk6m0
       
            StilesCrisis wrote 1 day ago:
            Facebook still knows what websites you've been visiting, even if
            you haven't logged in for eight years. The Facebook Pixel tracks
            page visits, and it's easy to join your Facebook account to your
            browsing history if you ever log into any website using your email
            address. Assuming you are usually using the same computer or IP,
            the user profile could be pretty detailed. It's actually surprising
            they don't do better here.
       
          alex1138 wrote 2 days ago:
          This could be, but the complaint about Facebook has always been
          people are posting but the feed won't show them posts from friends
       
        sgt wrote 2 days ago:
        I mean... I've been a Facebook user since 2006 and I don't see much
        spam at all in my feed. So I guess like PaulHoule said, it's a cold
        start problem and the defaults are terrible.
       
        Octoth0rpe wrote 2 days ago:
        The current leader for me for worst questions suggested by Meta's AI
        was on a photo someone took of some conspiracy theorist's van with the
        spraypainted message "THEY EAT BABIES IN DENVER". The suggested
        questions from their AI were:
        
        - Baby-eating restaurants in Denver
        
        - Denver's unique food scene
        
        wtaf meta.
        
        Beyond that, I simply don't see how Meta can possibly ever monetize
        their investment in AI. People are and will continue to be willing to
        pay OpenAI, Anthropic, google, microsoft. No one will pay Meta for
        their AI. And if their investment was only a couple million and they
        got some useless suggested questions out of it, whatever. But the size
        of their investment sure makes it look like someone thinks they'll make
        money off of it.
       
          HWR_14 wrote 1 day ago:
          Meta doesn't need to monetize their investment in AI. They need to
          their eyeballs and not lose them to OpenAI, Anthropic or Google. If
          they give away AI and people use it to make content for FB/IG that's
          all they need.
       
            Octoth0rpe wrote 1 day ago:
            > They need to their eyeballs and not lose them to OpenAI,
            Anthropic or Google.
            
            At this point I'm not sure how they could 'lose eyeballs' to those
            3. There doesn't seem to be any kind of market overlap. Unless
            we're talking about the very abstract sense of doing _anything_
            other than use a meta product is a potential lost eyeball in which
            case you might as well add the national park system to the list of
            people they can't lose to, and I don't think that's a useful way to
            talk about the cost/benefit of Meta's ai spending spree.
       
              HWR_14 wrote 1 day ago:
              They are all "things I do on a cellphone" and more precisely
              "things with infinite ability to absorb free time on a cellphone"
              (as opposed to things like Uber which exist to get something
              done).
              
              It scales in a way that national parks do not and national parks
              are not competing for the time you spend in the bathroom at work.
       
          alex1138 wrote 1 day ago:
          Yeah, it's incredibly ham fisted. I do not understand Zuckerberg's
          brain. The man is incapable of coming up with a good product or it
          was some product engineer given absolutely free reign to do whatever
          they wanted. AI summaries do not go with a product made for posts of
          friends
       
          mv4 wrote 1 day ago:
          Meta doesn't need to monetize their AI directly the way OpenAI or
          Anthropic would do. Meta runs ads, and they can use AI to help
          advertisers create content, target people, engage, etc.
       
            Octoth0rpe wrote 1 day ago:
            > Meta runs ads, and they can use AI to help advertisers create
            content, target people, engage, etc.
            
            It is hard to imagine the level of spending they are doing if that
            is the sum total of their use case: shoring up a moat for which
            there really aren't any significant competitors in the first place.
            It seems like it can only be justified by eventually rolling out
            some kind of subscription service for... something, but for the
            life of me I can't think of what they might be able to actually
            sell to people or corps.
       
        euleriancon wrote 2 days ago:
        I had a similar experience recently, where I logged in to Facebook
        after not using it for years and was shocked by how much garbage was
        there. My spouse does use Facebook somewhat regularly so I looked at
        her feed and it was much more reasonable.
        
        I wonder if for those of us that haven't used Facebook in years the
        recommendation algorithm is essentially default. Which much like the
        default youtube algorithm, is completely garbage. But if we did use it
        (which I have no intention of doing), it would start being more
        reasonable.
       
          veunes wrote 22 hours 38 min ago:
          Active account with real interactions = more normal. Which is a
          pretty telling product story in itself
       
          socalgal2 wrote 1 day ago:
          It does make me wonder if that system is a net positive or a net
          negative. For me, I go, see suggested stuff which is all trash, and
          never want to engage with FB ever again. I stay only because of
          friends but only check once a week or so. Where as, if they got rid
          of all suggested stuff and instead it was 100% friends and family and
          every 5 posts, an ad. I'd engage with it far more often.
       
          steve-atx-7600 wrote 1 day ago:
          Same.  F|_|cking wasteland.  Immediately logged out.  Won’t go
          back.
       
          conductr wrote 1 day ago:
          I think it just throws the most engaging content at you hoping you
          get lured into using it more then the algo will update once it sees
          how you behave.
          
          For me, it's almost all thirst traps for several years. More recently
          it learned that I like 90s/00s rock, which is a fad again, so it
          started showing me some of that. Also, I am a sucker for stand up
          comedy clips and it feeds me that now. So that was a hint that it
          does start to become more reasonable. But, if I start to scroll it
          only goes 3-5 posts deep before thirst gets put back in the rotation
          no matter what I do.
          
          I've been using it more than ever in the last ~2 years, just because
          my old friends started sending me videos to the music related stuff
          so I click it and it opens in FB. We chat on messenger and I guess
          that little DM airplane logo is how they found a way to get me into
          it on occasion. Granted, my friends send me like 5-10 videos a day
          and I only watch them about once a month to get caught up, I can tell
          it's trying really hard to make a DAU out of me.
       
          georgemcbay wrote 1 day ago:
          > But if we did use it (which I have no intention of doing), it would
          start being more reasonable.
          
          It would start being more "relevant" but not necessarily more
          reasonable.
          
          I hadn't used Facebook regularly in many years but recently posted a
          story about the passing of my 18 year old cat.    I did this as a way
          of informing friends and family I don't communicate with on a
          constant basis that I was going through a bad time (I was very fond
          of my cat).
          
          My Facebook algorithm is now just almost entirely a solid wall of
          people I don't know announcing the death of their cat.    A non-stop
          parade of personal tragedies.
          
          I can see the connection of how one thing led to the other but it
          also highlights how clumsy and soulless these algorithmic systems
          are.
       
          Groxx wrote 1 day ago:
          From seeing the feeds of a few categories of people near me (some
          using it semi-professionally, some just personally, some like me that
          avoid it unless strictly necessary)... it really does seem to be all
          of them.  Absolute garbage is a majority, and they all complain about
          missing things they actually care about (though to be fair this has
          been true ever since it left colleges).
          
          Facebook is truly awful to everyone.  I can't believe people don't
          try harder to leave.
       
          mkehrt wrote 1 day ago:
          My facebook page, which is where I have friended everyone I met
          between like 2004 and 2017 is absolute garbage.
          
          But I have a secondary account where I follow a few specific niche
          groups on a specific topic that are only on facebook.  This page is
          actually fine, and is pretty good at suggesting related pages.
          
          Not sure what the takeaway is for facebook though.
       
          idunno246 wrote 1 day ago:
          I still log in fairly regularly and get a bunch of reasonably
          targeted content, but also a ton of ragebait ai shit like protestors
          attacking cops. So it’s a bit of both, they’re just flooded with
          bad ai posts. It’s changed drastically in the past year, from a
          bunch of posts you could argue make sense, to mostly posts of rage.
          But the number of actual friends posts is basically zero
       
            Spooky23 wrote 1 day ago:
            The problem is you have to be defensive. If you mess up once and
            click some AI reading Reddit posts or hawk-tua style street
            interview, you’re cooked.
            
            You used to be able to reset by watching stupid financial content
            with high value like gold coin stuff and cleanse, but Meta is
            smarter now.
       
              wildrhythms wrote 1 day ago:
              Every social media algorithm is like this now. Accidentally
              viewing certain types of videos are like dropping a nuclear bomb
              in your carefully nursed algorithm.
       
          mieko wrote 1 day ago:
          I wonder this too about X: when I sundowned my Twitter account when I
          started seeing 80% "no question literal nazi-posting" by bluechecks
          on my feed, I unfollowed everyone and kept the account just to
          prevent someone posting on what was my username for over a decade.
          
          So now that I follow no one, when I click a link from Reddit or HN to
          X, my "For You" page is:
          
          - Asian pornography; AI generated "vibes" videos of machines doing
          "oddly satisfying" things; Elon Musk; American right-wing politicians
          and pundits screaming about "woke" or jerking off ICE videos; AI or
          real public sex outdoors at festivals?
          
          Of course, I don't use X, and don't seek this stuff out, and only see
          it there.
       
          Maxion wrote 1 day ago:
          I logged in to instagram after like 5 years and my whole feed is
          literally just thots and AI generated content, even though I follow a
          crapload of accounts.
       
            davio wrote 1 day ago:
            I did "not interested" & "This post makes me uncomfortable" for a
            solid month and now have a reliable feed of comedians, tacos,
            golden retrievers, classic jazz drummers, etc.    The algorithm
            thought I turned Mexican and gave me exclusively Spanish content
            for a month but I just kind of went along with it.
       
              prisenco wrote 1 day ago:
              I found that "not interested" didn't work for me, that I had to
              explicitly state what I was interested in and only then did my
              suggestions become relevant. It will at times revert to slop and
              then I have to go through the process all over again.
       
            dlev_pika wrote 1 day ago:
            Same with mine - all thirst traps in the search, which I have never
            really searched for.
       
            ryandrake wrote 1 day ago:
            Not just thots but thots with inevitable links to their OnlyFans
            pages. It seems that FB and Instagram's primary purpose has become
            funneling people into OnlyFans. I wonder if Zucc has caught on to
            this and is at least getting some revenue share from OF.
       
              JohnMakin wrote 1 day ago:
              He has testified to congress that IG/meta does not promote sexual
              content, which is nuts, because anyone who’s spent 5 mins on
              the platform knows this absolutely not the case
       
                socalgal2 wrote 1 day ago:
                Both can be true. IG/Meta does not promote sexual content.
                Users promote sexual content. That might be subtle but there is
                a real distinction.
       
                  JohnMakin wrote 16 hours 37 min ago:
                  And who controls what user content goes into user feeds?
       
                  kirubakaran wrote 16 hours 52 min ago:
                  > That might be subtle but there is a real distinction.
                  
                  A distinction without a difference, as the expression goes
       
                r_lee wrote 1 day ago:
                I think its just by nature very engaging, as dudes will go look
                at other posts and comment (at least the older ones) about
                their looks etc...
       
                naravara wrote 1 day ago:
                In my experience it’s mostly sexual adjacent content with
                just enough plausible deniability that you could say it’s a
                comedic sketch or something. They’re not funny, and the
                punchline is usually tits, but it has the cosmetic structure of
                a joke.
       
          toomuchtodo wrote 1 day ago:
          Try [1] I'm using it for Facebook interface needs until I can get
          something more agentic in my browser operational.
          
  HTML    [1]: https://www.fbpurity.com/
  HTML    [2]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...
       
            ForHackernews wrote 1 day ago:
             [1] is another
            
  HTML      [1]: https://socialfixer.com/
       
            rhyperior wrote 1 day ago:
            The only way you can use FB imo.
       
              Smalltalker-80 wrote 1 day ago:
              Agreed.
              I'm over 50, so I'm 'allowed' to use FB ;-),
              for those few posts of the last remaining family and friends
              there.
              Using FBP, I only see new posts of friends in chronological
              order.
              But FB still f*cks you, because it does not show all updates of
              everyone.
              When the algo decides you've had enough, you simply reach the
              'end' of your feed.
              Well when FB, sessions keep getting shorter and shorter...
              There are some EU laws in the making that might change things,
              though.
       
          tencentshill wrote 1 day ago:
          I would assume inactive accounts get "sold" to the algorithm's lowest
          bidders. If you're not generating new information, there's nothing to
          scrape or sell. You must be pretty locked down outside of Facebook as
          well (you've actually toggled privacy settings, ever).
       
          ge96 wrote 2 days ago:
          YT is like this too, if you're not logged in, thirst trap, crazy
          stuff until you build up a search history (even not logged in)
       
            KellyCriterion wrote 1 day ago:
            True: You have to curate your feed / search history a little bit to
            get much better results
       
              loloquwowndueo wrote 1 day ago:
              Or, just search for the thing you’re looking for directly, and
              otherwise don’t rely on the feed to feed you because it only
              knows to feed you crap?
       
            MattGrommes wrote 1 day ago:
            Not sure why people are downvoting this, it's absolutely true. I
            watch a lot of youtube on my TV and I can tell in milliseconds if
            it's logged me out and I'm seeing the default feed. It's fully
            insane and inane.
       
              recursivecaveat wrote 1 day ago:
              It only takes me a few seconds of scrolling in a private window
              to hit an AI-generated cat head on pregnant human woman barfing
              rainbows on the floor: 63M views. Really makes you believe in the
              dead internet theory, just that they're all in their own little
              slop algorithm world. Or maybe it's ipad babies after all.
       
                wildrhythms wrote 1 day ago:
                Everywhere I go I see parents letting their kids scroll short
                form video. The brain rot starts early.
       
            nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
            Now and then it gets things right, but I find a lot of YT recs to
            be pretty dubious, and find it is trying to bias me in this
            direction or that direction. It's pretty pathetic.
            
            The search function is also useless. About the only Scottish
            history content I ever get rec'd is Scotland History Tours. While I
            like his channel, it is not the only show in town and it doesn't go
            very deep.
            
            When I got my last YT account I could see it was trying to access
            which news I should see. It was trying to link me to one American
            party or the other. I just clicked "not interested" into most of
            the partisan bait content. Not my circus, not my clowns.
       
              the_af wrote 1 day ago:
              Interesting. I have a very different experience with YouTube, to
              the point I consider it my favorite social network thingy. My
              search history and subscriptions are carefully curated, and I
              mostly get "more of the same", with pretty good recommendations
              for stuff that usually interests me. Also, zero "thirsty" stuff.
              
              Logged out, YouTube is of course a complete mess.
       
                nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
                Logged out, YouTube suggests me endless videos about MMA
                fighting or trash for children. I only use the YouTube app for
                commenting. I use Brave to avoid constant adverts.
                
                I do notice though that YouTube is always trying to bias me in
                one direction or another. I have a friend whose feed is full of
                Trumpbait and stuff about how Putin is about to die and the
                Ukraine war is about to end. (Sounds fine except these videos
                have been saying that for four or five years.) Whatever one
                things about these things, the videos he gets are very
                propagandistic and have ridiculous AI thumbnails and titles.
                Usually of Putin or Trump scowling at something. He also gets
                suggested a lot of food videos (okay, I suppose) and often ones
                about Nazis and WW2 (a bit fetishistic, but to be fair he did
                history at university).
                
                My non-political YouTube suggestions tend to be about popular
                music from decades ago. I emphasise "about". I notice the algo
                more rarely suggests actual music itself. I suspect this is
                because YT has to pay out money for music but not videos about
                it. I get some local history stuff (which is interesting but
                usually not about areas I know well). I very rarely get
                suggested much in the way of Scottish, Irish or Welsh content,
                in spite of viewing a lot of it. Never anything about what's
                happening with Scottish politics (always from a London
                perspective) or the parliament here.
       
          speckx wrote 2 days ago:
          Same here, I use it once every year or so. I get AI slop when I log
          in that is mostly like this blog post.
          
          My wife, who uses it maybe once or twice a month, does not AI slop,
          she showed me her feed. Nor does my friend who uses it daily. It's
          definitely based on usage or lack of usage.
       
          npilk wrote 2 days ago:
          Yeah, this makes sense. It does sort of imply that new users would
          just see a bunch of garbage, which you'd think isn't ideal. On the
          other hand, how many new users could possibly still be signing up for
          Facebook? So maybe it's not a problem as they just manage the
          decline.
       
            bmurphy1976 wrote 2 days ago:
            It's nonsensical rage/click baiting garbage.  You are the product,
            not the user.
            
            Anybody who hasn't used FB in a long time almost certainly has 100s
            if not 1000s of posts from friends and family that they missed. 
            Instead of this garbage it should be "Hey, we haven't seen you in
            awhile!  Here's all the fun and important stuff you missed out on."
            
            That might actually get me to engage with the platform because that
            would be putting my needs first and foremost.  But that's not what
            FB does and not what FB ever did.  Zuck never had our best
            interests in mind, so why would it put our interests first?
       
        ossa-ma wrote 2 days ago:
        Evidently there is such little real human content and engagement on
        these platforms yet how does the big number keep going up? Genuine
        question.
        
        Do we need a way to audit usage stats in addition to financial numbers?
       
          fullshark wrote 2 days ago:
          My guess is every metric is just getting diluted by bot activity but
          there's enough real users buying crap  to give their advertising
          positive returns.
       
          michelb wrote 2 days ago:
          Engagement is great if you target a specific group. Don't need human
          content. It's ridiculously easy to start a Facebook page in a niche
          targeting a specific demographic, connect a site to it, unleash AI
          generated content, post it on FB and run ads. With enough traction,
          Facebook will pay you for making more content, while you extract
          money from your page followers. You're separating easy-to-influence
          boomers and conspiracy theorists from their money. It's disgusting,
          but it is ridiculously easy to make heaps of money with whatever
          content on Facebook.
       
        operatingthetan wrote 2 days ago:
        What I don't understand is how FB and Insta are just full of spam (from
        spammers, not Meta AI) now.  It used to be that FB was the absolute
        best at getting rid of spam and now they appear to be overcome by it?
       
          nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
          Because if you report something they do nothing about it. I have seen
          complete scams on there and they do nothing about it. At the same
          time the site wants to control your worldview so lose lose on both
          scores.
       
        PaulHoule wrote 2 days ago:
        Anything like that faces a "cold start" problem when they don't have
        data about you.
        
        I got a lot of that kind of stuff when I started a new Facebook account
        but once I got my friends and family on and joined some sports
        photography groups I am usually greeted by (1) photos of varying
        quality that people took of a high school basketball game, (2)
        something family members are doing, (3) some friends outraged about the
        Trump administration...  With helpings of AI slop cat videos and other
        trash.
        
        Meta obviously believes that those kind of images of women will get
        engagement and I know I get DMs that appear to be from women like that
        every time I get on a new platform -- usually I don't respond,    or lead
        them out until they reveal what they are,  though I am tempted to say
        "I am only interested in 2.5-d girls"
        
        Instagram has those blonde women too,  but I was impressed with the
        "cold start" experience on Instagram where my feed was filled with some
        really incredible videos that must have been hand selected.  After a
        few days of engagement farming though I wound up connected to a lot of
        South Asians including rather modest Muslim and Hindu women who project
        a fashionable image without showing a lot of skin.  I didn't have a lot
        of success connecting with people in my immediate area until I started
        going out as-a-fox and handing out tokens with QR codes.
       
        wincy wrote 2 days ago:
        Facebook messenger is so annoying to use too! My extended family group
        chat is there, but I had to turn off notifications because Facebook
        realized I only engage there and started serving me stories and updates
        from the messenger app as notifications! Right this second opening
        messenger it shows a “4” in the upper right, assumably with garbage
        notifications about things I don’t care about “happening” on
        Facebook. Luckily if something important actually happens my family
        knows to text me, so I read the group chatter at my leisure rather than
        being interrupted randomly.
       
        alex1138 wrote 2 days ago:
        Zuckerberg is what I might refer to as "forced" network effects. And I
        don't mean the natural network effects that result from people using a
        good and hence popular product (or network effects building on itself).
        Facebook replaced people's emails in their profiles with fb.com
        addresses, the company lied to people about privacy forever but
        especially with the former it's the site that actively tries to take
        you over. I despise Google, but Gmail wasn't like this (and supposedly
        Facebook would actively delete posts linking to its competition, in the
        early days - and maybe not so early days)
        
        My point in this somewhat rambly post is it's always been a spammy mess
        and Zuck's never had an interest in making a good product. For him it's
        literally about domination
        
        And PS: yeah, I know. With Chrome Google is apparently trying to
        dictate standards in a similarly cynical way
       
          downboots wrote 1 day ago:
          Maybe. But you can't deny their strategy worked. Seizing most with
          FB, IG, WA for the average people
       
        smrtinsert wrote 2 days ago:
        My feed isn't as bad as this one, mostly current events, tech, music,
        politics which are my interests.  Trolls/ai/bots are everywhere, but so
        are people callling it out, so if anything I would guess engagement is
        up.  To be fair, my politics seems to be around 60/40 agree/disagree
        with my political preference which I actually think is a massive
        improvement over what it used to be which was 90% agreeable to me.  I
        enjoy engaging on pages of the opposing view.
       
        sunir wrote 2 days ago:
        We lost the Internet to AI. Just accept it. It's bots talking to bots
        about bots.
       
          amatecha wrote 1 day ago:
          maybe the centralized, corporate-owned web, but not the internet...
          at least, not yet...
       
            AlexandrB wrote 1 day ago:
            If anything the open internet seems worse. Every google search for
            some anodyne home maintenance task returns hundreds of AI-generated
            slop "guides" with affiliate links. YouTube is the last refuge for
            real information on this kind of thing. Coming across a
            human-written guide on the open web is increasingly rare.
       
              amatecha wrote 11 hours 14 min ago:
              I almost clarified that - Google Search is definitely part of
              that very centralized, corporate-owned web I was referring to. 
              Like what you're describing is exactly what I'm talking about. 
              But there are more and more niche obscure corners of the internet
              that you don't easily find, where good stuff is happening. 
              People are still using IRC, Hotline, KDX, Gopher, and then
              there's newer stuff like Gemini ( [1] ), and
              potentially-invite-only close-knit communities on Mastodon and
              Lemmy.    Oh yeah and then there's the alternatives to corporate
              stuff like Instagram -> PixelFed,  YouTube -> PeerTube...
              
  HTML        [1]: https://geminiprotocol.net/
       
          cat5e wrote 2 days ago:
          I will never roll over for the lizard man
       
            chistev wrote 1 day ago:
            Don't you use WhatsApp?
       
          weregiraffe wrote 2 days ago:
          Facebook is not the Internet.
       
            ASalazarMX wrote 1 day ago:
            But AI slop is not limited to Facebook. It really is all over the
            Internet, it dominates entire topics in search engines.
       
          fullshark wrote 2 days ago:
          You just need to find a smaller walled garden that can be tended, and
          not care deeply about having a massive audience and you can still
          find interesting conversation.
       
            ASalazarMX wrote 1 day ago:
            I've seen many Lemmy communities die because their creators
            abandoned then when they didn't grow fast into thousands of
            members. This fast growth fixation is so pernicious, if anything
            web forums and Reddit showed us, is that small communities are
            higher quality than big ones. Communities in the thousands require
            a lot of moderation effort to remain high quality.
            
            Enjoy your small circle of internet strangers sharing a common
            interest, you don't need to become viral.
       
            jjulius wrote 1 day ago:
            The gardens that need the most tending, and that will have the most
            impactful rewards for individuals and communities as a result of
            said tending, exist in meatspace. Stop searching for walled gardens
            on the internet and focus on whatever is around you wherever you
            are. Stop using "More social media but different this time!" as the
            solution to broken social media.
       
        j16sdiz wrote 2 days ago:
        It's not just facebook. Every social network under Meta is infected
        with bot.
        Facebook look worse because there are so few real users.
       
          calvinmorrison wrote 2 days ago:
          Twitter was for, almost ever, infected with basically spam and 'fake
          user counts'. These fake user counts were of course included in the
          numbers told to investors and it drove sales price of stock. Did you
          think facebook would ever be immune to that?
       
        BoredPositron wrote 2 days ago:
        I would really like to see the daus for Facebook that primarily
        interact with their feed. Not marketplace or messenger just the core of
        the platform.
       
        nubg wrote 2 days ago:
        Great post, it's not just you, my feed is exactly the same. Short FCBK
        stocks.
       
        morkalork wrote 2 days ago:
        Unfortunately there's still two things bringing me back to Facebook:
        Marketplace and the neighbourhood group (populated by mostly boomers)
       
        mgiampapa wrote 2 days ago:
        Social media is mostly about what you make of it and how you interact
        to find value. This is the same in Twitter, TikTok, FB, Instagram, even
        LinkedIn.
        
        If you don't interact with the product, you get lowest denominator
        crap.
       
          zadikian wrote 2 days ago:
          Was curious what my abandoned FB shows if I log in now. Mostly posts
          from groups I joined ages ago that are surprisingly still active,
          some random local news articles, and ads for restaurants.
       
            HoldOnAMinute wrote 2 days ago:
            I used to run the Facebook page for a church-affiliated children's
            summer program associated with a minority group.
            
            I accidentally switched to that account the other day.
            
            The feed was the most right-wing, Fox News crap you could imagine!
       
              mgiampapa wrote 1 day ago:
              I am both strongly pro 2A, and extremely liberal. Sometimes it
              gets things wrong, but I just use the feedback buttons and snooze
              content I don't agree with and it remarkably stays mostly on
              track for me.
       
              ryandrake wrote 1 day ago:
              I have a very sweet elderly friend of the family who only uses
              Facebook for church-related stuff, and since I'm "the tech guy"
              she asked me to look at her facebook and help her understand why
              she sees so much Trump, right-wing, hateful, violent,
              "Nazi-adjacent" (interestingly never -overtly- Nazi) stuff in her
              feed. I didn't have the heart to try to explain to her
              demographic bias, revealed preferences, and overlapping group
              interests, so I just said it's probably a software glitch in
              Facebook.
       
          AceJohnny2 wrote 2 days ago:
          This is not true for the major social media sites that control the
          algorithmic feeds. (Facebook, Xitter, Reddit, YouTube...)
          
          While you may be able to add a small bend to the feed, it's really
          90% in their power, not yours.
          
          I'm looking at Facebook "Home" feed. Funny how they added a separate
          "Friends" feed, the original purpose of the site, that's not the
          default.
       
            Dr_Birdbrain wrote 1 day ago:
            For Reddit, you can select an option so that it only shows you
            things from subs you follow. Dramatically improves the experience!
       
              AceJohnny2 wrote 1 day ago:
              sure, but now it's giving me days old crappy posts with 3 votes
              from those subs as it leans wholeheartedly in the Dark Pattern of
              always feeding me something so I keep reflexively coming back for
              more.
       
            mgiampapa wrote 1 day ago:
            IDK, I still find my Facebook and Instagram feeds very topical and
            useful to me, so I keep using them. I also curate aggressively,
            have a wide variety of interests and a few hundred close
            connections. It could be that I am just fitting into what the algo
            is steering to, but I don't get the low quality stuff that OP is
            complaining about.
       
        HoldOnAMinute wrote 2 days ago:
        I'm a parent in my 50's.  "Peak Facebook" is years in the past for me. 
        But it was great for a while.  My spouse, friends, friends' spouses,
        and I were all sharing stories and pictures of our kids, travels, and
        experiences, such as dining experiences or hikes.  There was so much
        joyous sharing.  And it wasn't done for clicks, views, or monetization.
         It was just friends, sharing their experiences, encouraging each
        other, etc.  It all just went away, starting with the husbands.
       
          itomato wrote 1 day ago:
          Naive, good natured, exploitable. Perfection.
       
          insane_dreamer wrote 1 day ago:
          Similar experience; it was good 15 years ago. I left* and closed my
          account ~10 years ago.
          
          * because 1) I found it sucked up time I needed for more productive
          things and I was getting "hooked" on social media, and 2) it wasn't
          good for my mental health -- if all you see is the glamour side, even
          if they're people you know, it was easy for me to feel that my life
          sucked in comparison. It didn't make me happy.
       
          12_throw_away wrote 1 day ago:
          > There was so much joyous sharing.
          
          I'm sorry, but describing using a social advertising network as
          "joyous sharing" is blowing my mind. This is, like, what marketing
          people think normal people talk like.
       
            b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote 1 day ago:
            bro, facebook was the first internet thing for a lot of people.
            with it, millions of *oomers got in touch with people they didn't
            see in years/decades. it was unironically good before the
            enshittification, and we still don't have a mainstream replacement.
            we probably can't ever have one, really.
       
          Hnrobert42 wrote 1 day ago:
          What do you mean it all just went away starting with the husbands?
          Like people drifted away from the platform? Husbands started drifting
          away from it first?
       
          drnick1 wrote 1 day ago:
          >  There was so much joyous sharing. And it wasn't done for clicks,
          views, or monetization.
          
          All along, Meta was vacuuming that data to build profiles of you,
          your family and friends, to be sold to third parties. You have been
          duped.
       
          sparky_z wrote 1 day ago:
          >  It all just went away, starting with the husbands.
          
          I honestly can't tell whether I'm supposed to interpret this as "The
          dads lost interest in Facebook before anyone else", or "Everybody got
          divorced."
       
            HoldOnAMinute wrote 1 day ago:
            I would say their priorities changed.  They spent less time with
            social media and just did other things.
       
              nickburns wrote 1 day ago:
              Alright, I'll be the dude to call a spade a spade: it was all
              done for "clicks."
              
              The sheer banality of that tends to eventually wear on a dude.
       
            98codes wrote 1 day ago:
            I'm a dad that stopped using facebook when I got divorced, so
            there's a bit of anecdata for you
       
            bentcorner wrote 1 day ago:
            Personally I stopped using Facebook because even in the before-AI
            days it started becoming a glamour photo book of everyone you ever
            knew (and probably lots of people you only kind of sorta know), and
            while people certainly deserve to do and see great things, seeing
            it all shoved in your face every day becomes exhausting in a
            keeping-up-with-the-joneses kind of way.
            
            I totally get that not everybody is like that, but I am, and so I
            stopped going to Facebook.
            
            These days I'm in private Whatsapp groups for my direct family and
            so I learn about what they do, and not the random stuff that my
            neighbors and 20-years-past classmates did.
            
            My wife is still active on Facebook and I actually do still visit
            occasionally to boost her posts but that's about it.
       
              dividefuel wrote 1 day ago:
              I agree with this a lot. In the late 2000s, which for me was when
              I was about 20, posts were very throwaway and low effort -- in a
              good way! You never really knew what you'd see when you logged
              in. Photos of stupid things or silly status updates, etc.
              
              Over the next five years though, content gradually shifted to
              mainly image crafting. Over-processed photos, highlight reel
              curated trip photos, major life updates, etc. It felt like the
              bar was higher on what people would share, but unfortunately that
              removed a lot of the things that made FB fun in the first place.
              
              I don't know whether it was a more universal shift or whether it
              had more to do with the age of my peers.
       
            RobinL wrote 1 day ago:
            Or possibly 'men find the algorithmic/consumption based platforms
            relatively more appealing' and so were quicker to leave
       
          da02 wrote 2 days ago:
          What do your social groups use nowadays?
       
            insane_dreamer wrote 1 day ago:
            IG, though I didn't bring my FB list over and lost contact with a
            bunch of people.
            
            I keep my follow list small and regularly unfollow people (not
            because I don't like them or what they post, but because I've seen
            enough of that).
            
            Being able to unfollow without drama was something that was
            problematic in FB.
            
            My siblings and parents have a private WhatsApp group - that's
            what's used for actual communication.
       
            HoldOnAMinute wrote 1 day ago:
            Nothing, the sharing has stopped.
       
            JeremyNT wrote 1 day ago:
            Not parent, but, depressingly:
            
              1. Signal
              2. BlueSky
              3. Discord
              4. WhatsApp
              5. SMS
            
            This list is presented in order of preference, and in reverse order
            of prevalence.
       
            prmoustache wrote 1 day ago:
            I am in my mid forties and most people around me seem to use
            instagram to share memes and stuff + keep contact with rarely seen
            friends and whatsapp groups for closest more tightknit circles.
            
            I am still on whatsapp but I am planning on nuking my account in
            september after a large event involving people from various
            continents. I have no idea if I will be able to stay directly in
            touch with those people after that, probably not.
            
            I am still unsure if I'll send a message to most of my contacts or
            if I'll just tell my nuclear family, in laws and closest friends.
       
            mikepurvis wrote 1 day ago:
            Close friends and family: group chats (whatsapp, signal)
            
            Distant friends and extended family: email threads
       
            SoftTalker wrote 1 day ago:
            Text messages, email. Same as ever.
       
            sbrother wrote 1 day ago:
            Similar experience for me and at this point it's just a collection
            of private chats. Different groups use different platforms (mine
            are on iMessage, Whatsapp, Signal, Slack, and.. actually Messenger
            although apparently Facebook is taking that away soon). It kind of
            feels like real-name social media is a failed experiment at this
            point.
       
            mattfrommars wrote 1 day ago:
            Personally, it’s all through WhatsApp
       
            etrautmann wrote 1 day ago:
            Almost all chat threads in messages, signal, or occasionally in
            slack or discord or something else.
       
            toomuchtodo wrote 1 day ago:
            iMessages (which supports groups well with RCS), Signal, Telegram,
            GroupMe. Slack, IRC, and Zulip for online groups.
            
            (early 40s)
       
            yabones wrote 1 day ago:
            I'm probably a bit younger than the gp, but I can confidently say
            that all socializing has moved almost entirely off "social media"
            and onto group chats. Most people have a dozen or more combinations
            of friends and families on multiple apps, all trying to replace
            what was once easy.
            
            I'd love if somebody would make a site based on the ~2010
            expectations (not reality) of facebook. Ban any commercial activity
            and make people pay for it. I just want to talk to my friends and
            say "happy birthday" to somebody I haven't seen in years, not look
            at ads and slop posts.
       
              cvwright wrote 1 day ago:
              Several people have tried over the years.  We all failed, because
              it doesn’t work.
              
              The economics don’t work because no one is willing to pay.
              
              The network effect doesn’t exist, because real people don’t
              post enough to get the flywheel started.
              
              All the dark patterns exist because that is what users reward.
              
              Sucks but it’s true.
       
            snovymgodym wrote 1 day ago:
            Group chats on various apps
       
            bojanz wrote 1 day ago:
            In my part of Europe it’s all in private WhatsApp groups (one for
            inner family, one for friends, etc)
       
              drnick1 wrote 1 day ago:
              Unfortunately, those are also being surveilled by Meta, so the
              exodus from Facebook did not help. Consider Signal or a private
              XMPP server.
       
                underlipton wrote 1 day ago:
                I convinced my family to try Signal, and after a month of not
                being able to connect despite knowing each other's numbers -
                silent errors - I had to apologize and join them on WhatsApp.
                
                They all use iMessage primarily, but that's a whole other
                can-of-worms conversation. (Screw Apple.)
       
                  rcMgD2BwE72F wrote 1 day ago:
                  Got my entire family on Signals (sisters, brothers, in-laws,
                  parents, nephews…). We're very happy but could extend that
                  to second degrees(?), to cousins and uncles. We're were close
                  to succeed but we needed help (media, mostly).
       
            hu3 wrote 2 days ago:
            Folks around me use mostly Instagram which ironically is also from
            Meta.
            
            Zuck is always one step ahead.
       
              mikepurvis wrote 1 day ago:
              I have an IG account that I barely use, whereas my Facebook
              account I do (regrettably) still spend time on, and have put in
              the effort to silence/hide the worst of the baity type content
              that it wants to throw at me.
              
              But interestingly my experience of IG when I do occasionally go
              on it is similar to what TFA describes: lots of engagement-bait /
              thirst trap content that I never asked to see but also haven't
              been around to hide, so I guess the baseline algorithm is just
              matching me to what others in my demographic bracket have found,
              um, engaging.
       
              ghywertelling wrote 1 day ago:
              You only ever need a Meta account. The next content format will
              be brought to your door by Zuck even before you know you need it.
       
              gus_massa wrote 1 day ago:
              And as a sibling comment says, also WhatsApp. The guy is always
              two steps ahead.
       
                pdpi wrote 1 day ago:
                There's two separate things at play here.
                
                One is "I don't want to use Meta products as a matter of
                principle", and WhatsApp's a no-go if that's your posture.
                
                The other is "I don't want to drown in horrible,
                algorithm-curated junk content". Instagram is just as bad as
                Facebook there, but WhatsApp is definitely not the same.
       
                  mikepurvis wrote 1 day ago:
                  100%. Whatsapp is still zuck, but it doesn't have a "feed"
                  and that's the most important thing about it for me.
       
                    gus_massa wrote 1 day ago:
                    Now at the bottom it has a few tabs: Chats, Updates, ...
                    
                    Updates are broadcasted, but they disappear after 24 hours.
                    
                    Step 1) Keep updates for a week, later forever
                    
                    Step 2) Mix Chats and Updates
                    
                    Step 3) Add a few relevant patrocinated posts
                    
                    Step 4) Change the css from green to blue
                    
                    Step 5) Profit
       
                      nickburns wrote 1 day ago:
                      Sería 'sponsored posts.' Como angloparlante nativo,
                      tenía que comprobar que fuese una palabra de verdad
                      'patrocinate' (como 'patrocinado').
       
                        gus_massa wrote 21 hours 48 min ago:
                        Yes, my bad. Hi from Argentina!
       
                          nickburns wrote 21 hours 32 min ago:
                          ¡Mucho gusto!, desde los EE.UU.
       
                nephihaha wrote 1 day ago:
                I'm waiting for Whatsapp to go down the toilet too. I notice it
                is already advising me to beware of misinformation on forwarded
                posts and only to use official and trusted sources (the
                government and their mates basically).
       
            throwway120385 wrote 2 days ago:
            Can't speak for OP but my spouse has set up a private GroupMe for
            posting events for a group, but otherwise everyone shares pictures
            using text messages. We don't post any pictures of our kid where
            strangers can easily get access to them and we've read the privacy
            policy of every service we've ever used.
            
            I was considering self-hosting something for a while but she found
            it more sensible to do it this way.
            
            Every once in a while she logs into Facebook to post something on
            Marketplace and immediately gets completely sidetracked by their
            algorithm and design. Then she gets frustrated and we just put the
            thing she wanted to sell on the corner instead.
       
            wincy wrote 2 days ago:
            Similar experience for me and it’s just been replaced with…
            nothing. My gaming buddies talk on Discord but I just don’t
            really hear from my aunts and uncles and cousins anymore. It’d be
            a hassle to even figure out how to contact them. Only 13 people
            showed up to my high school reunion last year from a graduating
            class of ~400.
       
              jrmg wrote 1 day ago:
              It’s returned to nothing. Losing touch with people you didn’t
              contact regularly was the norm until the mid 2000s.
              
              For someone who grew up in the ‘golden years’ of social
              media, it’s kinda weird to see.
       
                swat535 wrote 1 day ago:
                Exactly.. you’d only really see them on Christmas or Easter..
                Maybe some special event like Wedding.
                
                Once in a while they would come over but that was it. You never
                knew what your uncle had for lunch.
       
                underlipton wrote 1 day ago:
                It just keeps tumblring down, tumblring down, tumblring down.
                I just keep logging me out, logging me out, logging me out.
                
                I joke, but the internet I knew as a youth going the way of the
                dinosaurs really has had a deep impact on me. End of an epoch.
       
                munificent wrote 1 day ago:
                The thing is, before social media, we did have a culture of
                periodically reaching out and calling people. Those muscles
                completely atrophied though, so when we fall off social media,
                the result is even less connection than we had before Facebook
                et al existed.
       
              JKCalhoun wrote 1 day ago:
              "…I just don’t really hear from my aunts and uncles and
              cousins anymore…"
              
              Yeah, actually why I left Facebook a decade ago: finding out what
              horrible people my relatives were.
       
                le-mark wrote 1 day ago:
                This applies to “friends” also. And discovering how many of
                them are actual idiots. Oh, these people can’t put 5 words
                together to form a coherent sentence and their spelling grammar
                suck to top it off? I don’t miss it at all.
       
              zadikian wrote 2 days ago:
              Same. Idk how college communication work now; we had class groups
              and planned everything over FB events/pages back then.
              
              For friends, I started a few text group chats to stay in touch.
              It's really annoying because someone has Android and RCS is
              broken on someone's end. Some also use FB Messenger, but nobody 2
              years younger or older than me is on that.
       
                ishouldstayaway wrote 22 hours 47 min ago:
                >  I started a few text group chats to stay in touch.
                
                This is the space that WhatsApp fills, for better or worse.
       
                Mixtape wrote 1 day ago:
                When I finished my undergrad a few years ago, we were relying
                heavily on GroupMe chats, with the occasional Slack and one or
                two LinkedIn groups mixed in. Discord was just starting to exit
                the gaming sphere and hit the mainstream though. I'm willing to
                bet it's absolutely dominating the space now.
       
                  zadikian wrote 1 day ago:
                  How long ago was that if you don't mind me asking? I was in
                  college 2014-2016, and GroupMe existed but was on its way
                  out. I asked our college interns around 2022 what people use
                  for class groups, and I think they weren't sure what I even
                  meant, but the answer wasn't Discord.
       
                    Mixtape wrote 1 day ago:
                    2019-23.
                    
                    It's worth noting that GroupMe sticking around was honestly
                    probably a byproduct of my own circles and the specific
                    campus culture to a certain extent.
       
       
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