X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f996b,c8cd4c4d381bbbe8 X-Google-Attributes: gidf996b,public X-Google-Thread: fbb9d,327a38845773d68e X-Google-Attributes: gidfbb9d,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 1995-02-13 00:48:37 PST Path: nntp.gmd.de!newsserver.jvnc.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sashimi.wwa.com!not-for-mail From: rak@canon.co.uk (Richard Kirk) Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art,rec.arts.ascii Subject: Talk: Ripping off Artwork: A discussion Date: 13 Feb 1995 02:48:37 -0600 Organization: Canon Research Centre Europe Ltd Lines: 87 Sender: boba@gagme.wwa.com Approved: boba@wwa.com Message-ID: <3hn6d5$8qe@gagme.wwa.com> References: <1995Feb7.143947.233@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> <355@acorn.win-uk.net> <3hgv37$fmd@gagme.wwa.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: gagme.wwa.com Xref: nntp.gmd.de alt.ascii-art:19986 rec.arts.ascii:3883 dcau@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel Au) writes: (munch) >Now this is just to get the opinions of others on this newsgroup, no flames >intended (please don't be offended Steve). Now, there's a fine line between >ripping off another's artwork and diddling it into something else. Case in >point, the above statement about working on the far out boneman that was >posted (thanks for the compliment by the way). The picture was first made and >posted by me. A second party, in this case Mr. Crisp, goes and diddles with >it and adds a few changes (see article 20688 for reference.) >Now looking at the artwork, there is now no longer a mention that I am the >artist, which was there originally (see article 20547 for full picture): >> # || || __ >> # || || || >> # () () |~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> # || || | by DCAU! | >> # || || |____________| >> # o o || >> # /||' '||\ -__---_-_||_-__--_--- >And thus the original creator was lost. Now Steve did a nice diddle of the >skeleton and added his own stake in the ground. Who is the artist now? >Personally, I would have liked my name retained on the diddle (as was TL >Hesman's name was kept in the evolution of the lovebirds, for those of you who >keep up with the posts). I know in the real world this won't always happen >because people don't want to spoil 'their' artwork with someone elses name, >but it would be nice and it is courteous. I agree with most of dcau's posting, but here's another just for the hell of it... At a international congress of folk art in the twenties (or thereabouts), with famous folk song collectors like Cecil Sharpe, there were debates as to (a) whether folk art could be defined, and (b) to whom the intellectual rights of a song (etc) belonged. The opinion that was accepted then, and has been widely held since runs roughly as follows. Consider (A) writes a song; (B) interprets it his was, (C) listening to (B) makes a dance tune out of it; (D) hears (C)'s version and plays it on different instruments at ceidilhs, with a set of other tunes, (E) hears it and fits different words to the tune, incorporating a bit of the other melodies in the set, and so on all the way to (Z). Now (Z)'s tune bears no resemblance to (A) and all of (A)-(Z) have had some part in the creation of the final thing. Though (A) may have kicked the whole process off, there is no identifiable author any longer. Folk art is art when this sort of thing happens. The works belong to everyone and to no-one. This does not mean that folk artists do not consider they have been ripped off from time to time. They can go on about it something beastly like any other species of human being. However the trend is still there. ASCII art seems to go through this process in minature. Ripping off a whole image because of a tiny diddle is not OK any more than copying Beethoven's 9th and diddling a few notes. However to insist on rigorously crediting all contributors will inhibit the growth of multiply diddled 'folk art' images. Perhaps you can drop the inital author's name if you feel you have put a lot onto the picture, but surely the real no-no is to put your name on instead! I dunno. I rather like seeing something of mine being used by someone else. Cheers. adBBba. Ba. A ~VgooodB ,B B. B b ,B" _ S"b B.Bb .dBb .B dBBB. B.aP" _"B. JB.aPb BaP" .B B .JB? B B. B.BBV B B BK. B BP'BCaP' B `YaaP' VBP B B? VB?' B `bd' B "YaaBP B B "Vbaa -- Richard Kirk 01483-448869 (phone) 01483-448845 (fax) Canon Research Europe Ltd, rak@canon.co.uk